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Microsoft is waiting for Sony to reveal PS5 price to undercut it with Xbox Series X, say Michael Pachter and Peter Moore
Night.Ninja
Banned
Sounds reasonable
Coloress_Kafka
Member
I’m really not convinced because there are so many other areas where Microsoft competes that are larger than the console market and they rarely do radical price cuts to gain market share. The logic just doesn’t add up and it feels like a fanboy dream like Xbox One X costing the same as a PS4 Pro when it launched.
SleepDoctor
Banned
If Sony goes for $500, I expect price similar or at most ms undercuts $50. And probably couples it with a month or 3 month ultimate subscription.
Stilton Disco
Member
We had the exact same narrative this gen with the PS4 ending up cheaper than the XO.
This isn't how businesses work. These prices are put in place months, if not years ahead of time, and involve agreements with the a huge number of departments internally, manufacturers, distributors and retail, all of which care far more about the product in questions plan to achieve profitability, than what the competition is doing.
Not that they won't cut prices should they need to, obviously, but no company would be so sloppy with a product release as to let a competitor lead them by the nose like this, it's just not logistically possible.
This isn't how businesses work. These prices are put in place months, if not years ahead of time, and involve agreements with the a huge number of departments internally, manufacturers, distributors and retail, all of which care far more about the product in questions plan to achieve profitability, than what the competition is doing.
Not that they won't cut prices should they need to, obviously, but no company would be so sloppy with a product release as to let a competitor lead them by the nose like this, it's just not logistically possible.
LegendOfKage
Member
I only had one console for most of this generation, until I finally picked up a Nintendo Switch. If the other company would have made online free, I would have been happy to buy the other console, and likely would have bought many games. I'm just not going to have two online subscriptions. It's the biggest reason preventing me from having two consoles that have 90% of the same games, and I hope either Microsoft or Sony realize that in the next generation.
Andodalf
Banned
This is what doesn’t make sense to me. It seems like a lower price is a pretty binary thing, either they have the green light or they don’t.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Possible, but I think this is just industry heads stirring drama. It's exciting to think Microsoft and Sony are playing cat-and-mouse, but in reality these things are planned ahead of time.
The caveat is perhaps Microsoft has an explicit directive this time to undercut Sony and MS upper mgmt will underwrite any losses that occur. Who knows? Microsoft is already using loss-leader strategies for their streaming / Game Pass. It is possible they will take a huge loss on XsX to push a lot of the boxes out there, but I don't think that's Microsoft's objective.
Undercutting is possible but it clashes with how Microsoft has behaved these last few years. Isn't the Xbox brand trying to shed the reputation of being reactive?
The caveat is perhaps Microsoft has an explicit directive this time to undercut Sony and MS upper mgmt will underwrite any losses that occur. Who knows? Microsoft is already using loss-leader strategies for their streaming / Game Pass. It is possible they will take a huge loss on XsX to push a lot of the boxes out there, but I don't think that's Microsoft's objective.
Undercutting is possible but it clashes with how Microsoft has behaved these last few years. Isn't the Xbox brand trying to shed the reputation of being reactive?
LostDonkey
Member
MS like
Stuart360
Member
Plus with all the licenses and services and other stuff we have now on consoles, $399 should be more than doable. In fact i think it would show a serious show of intent to price it at $399. They really should do it if they have serious intentions to pull back a lot of market share next gen.
Take the loss on the console, make your money from game sales, licenses, and services. I mean thats what they used to do with consoles back in the day, and all they had back then were game sales to fall back on.
Agnostic2020
Member
Sounds reasonable . I expect Ms to undercut sony. Xsx will be 400$ and xss will be 150$.
Oddspeak
Member
I suppose it could happen, but I don't see either company undercutting by more than $50, and that's if the other picks a $500 price tag. If Sony goes first and swings low for a $450 right out of the gate, I doubt Microsoft will have the balls to go to $400.
Keep in mind, we already know that the PS5's BOM is around $450 per console. I can't imagine XSX being cheaper by any significant amount. Maybe we COULD see one go as low as $400, but it will be for a loss, and possibly a big one.
Keep in mind, we already know that the PS5's BOM is around $450 per console. I can't imagine XSX being cheaper by any significant amount. Maybe we COULD see one go as low as $400, but it will be for a loss, and possibly a big one.
Vawn
Banned
Introducing the PlayStation 5 - $549.00
Introducing the Xbox Series X - $499.00
Did we say $549? We meant $449.00
That's funny, because WE meant $399.00
Oops. We did it again. PS5 $349.00
Lol, don't feel bad. Us too. Xbox Series X $299.00
...
Eventually both consoles will be the same price - $79.00
Ulysses 31
Member
Then MS can make last minute price change like Sony?What if Sony bluffs with their initial price (550$) in order to make MS announce their price (500$) and then Sony announces their real price (450$)?
Kenpachii
Member
2070, they going to release any day now.
sublimit
Banned
Actually with an install base of around 110 million PS4s vs 50 million XB1s the one who can wait is Sony.MS like
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
How much sales difference is there in the US between them at the moment?
leo-j
Member
I’m expecting $499 for ps5. But wouldn’t be surprised if it’s $399. The first year or so of losses should be negated by ps4 profit.
Also it would be wise to charge 499 as phones are selling at 1100 like hot cakes every year. The iPad is like $430 with the pencil. Consoles are really cheap compared to other pieces of tech.
Also it would be wise to charge 499 as phones are selling at 1100 like hot cakes every year. The iPad is like $430 with the pencil. Consoles are really cheap compared to other pieces of tech.
Matsuchezz
Member
If MS is going to do that, it means they are not confident on their product, if they allegedly are selling a beefier console than Sony, and they are trying to sell it at a lower price than Sony, it only shows they lack confidence in their product.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So, it should make you wonder "WHY" someone like Pachter would say something like this....
It feels weird to me.
Stuart360
Member
Spencer already said they made a big mistake with XB1 coming in $100 more expensive. Power is irrelevant here, Sony are more popular and Microsoft want to give themselves the best chance possible.
XSX could be 30tf, and PS5 would still sell more if it was $100 cheaper.
Its got nothing to do with a lack of confidence in their product, Jesus Gaf lol.
ethomaz
Banned
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MS want this generation to end as fast as possible. Sony wouldn't mind waiting and continuing as it is which is why next gen talk is so slim from one side.MS like
oldergamer
Member
Sony isn't going to lie about the initial price. That can turn people off it immediately. Any price change after that can be quickly matchedWhat if Sony bluffs with their initial price (550$) in order to make MS announce their price (500$) and then Sony announces their real price (450$)?
ethomaz
Banned
It only show they don’t have brand power to compete at same price.
That is nothing related with the confidence in the product.
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baphomet
Member
Because Pachter is wrong 99% of the time?
He literally spouts gibberish to anyone who will listen.
Matsuchezz
Member
He also said that when he knew about the specs in the Road to PS5 he felt better about themselves. If they are going to match Sony's price, they remove any implicit value that XsX may be offering. Power is always relevant. Maybe it does not matter to you or me, but it is relevant.
Nintendo never does this, they will sell old product at premium price and people will buy it, they sell value as they have always stated.
That is the message I am getting from MS, we offer no value, here it is XsX please pick me because I am cheaper.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Getting the price right will be the first score of later generation, lower prices help expand the user-base and shouldn't be seen as a weakness, PC gamers can't keep getting away with that narrative that lower console prices holds back gaming.
PocoJoe
Banned
That is daydreaming.
PS+ and xbox gold(whatever it is called) are big money makers.
And people are willing to pay for them aka they feel that they are worth it, so I dont think that there is any chance to either removing those paid subscriptions.
Both companies must have analysts that know these things and have calculated that even if they lose small amount of buyers, it is still worth it.
I mean, people that wont get both systems just because of subscription cant be so big group that it would be worth it.
If I remember correctly, it is counted in billion(s) for ps+.
So, how many systems they would have to sell to make people like you to buy theirs? see. day dreaming and not really feasible to even "hope that they realize it". you must realize that your selfish reasons wont matter at all, they are "worthless personal preferences in the bigger scale."
And while it sounds harsh, it is the truth. We cant hope big companies to do things that would feel good for us but are really bad for them.
I would not pay for 2 subscriptions either, no way. Just not worth it and not enough time to benefit from both. BUT I know that it wont matter in the big scale and my opinion is as worthless as yours about the same subject (of not wanting to pay for 2 subs)
I have ps4 + switch too, but I would never pay for nintendos sub, even if it is cheaper, it is just useless as switch aint multiplayer console anyway.
And 40-50€ year for ps+ is nothing IMO. I have low low income and I can still afford it. But I would not like to spend more for another subscription that "doesnt add much".
People spend similar sums or more in one night out, at restaurant, using taxi, alcohol, drugs etc. AKA even more worthless items than these subs. So it is just life choices. That is why I never drink, i dont go to clubs, I dont smoke, I havent used taxi more than 5 times in my life, I walk/cycle and so on.
My point is that if people spend money to these other "useless" things, they should not complain about subscriptions for consoles, and if they live like a monk like me, then they should have the money anyway.
And yeah, I could afford 2 subs. Most people could. And many people buy games with full price on launch and yet complain about these subscription fees. Yet they would save that just by waiting 2 games to drop to half price.
btw. I would not claim that "playstation and xbox gets 90% of the same games", unless it is literally the truth. And anyway that "last 10%" is what matters for many people
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
By the end of 2018 it was only 3.65mil of the total 52mil consoles that were sold. So I think your estimate of needing to undercut the console by $100 to compete and sell as much consoles as them, seems a bit high. Knowing from where they came with that crappy start, I'm pretty sure that with the same price and just the same feeling and messaging they've been putting out now they can match the sales of Sony in the US. Like you said, in the rest of the world they'll never come close.
Demon2blades
Member
I think if either offered free online now it would be a megaton announcement
Ms could still offer gamepass/xcloud and Sony could still offer psnow and stuff and make money .
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Remember when pachter said the ps5 bom was $800. Turns out Sony went with a cheap ass 36 cu chip.
If ms wanted to undercut Sony they wouldn't be releasing a Lockhart.
If ms wanted to undercut Sony they wouldn't be releasing a Lockhart.
prinz_valium
Member
THis
ethomaz
Banned
It was ~3.9m at end of 2018.
~4.8m at end of 2019.
Probably around 5.2m?... well it is definitively over 5m.
At same price Xbox will always sell less than PlayStation.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
dorkimoe
Member
I hate that people believe this, the same way I hate when at E3 one company announces a price then the other company announces theres and its cheaper the next day at their conference and people think they altered their price at the last minute to undercut. You really think a billion dollar company created hardware and doesnt know the price already that they want to sell at, they have probably done the math at every single price point, there is no way they are just sitting there waiting for Sony to announce a price lol That is not how business works
The machines could be completely different so that would make no sense to wait and undercut a machine that you know nothing about
The machines could be completely different so that would make no sense to wait and undercut a machine that you know nothing about
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vpance
Member
What if Sony bluffs with their initial price (550$) in order to make MS announce their price (500$) and then Sony announces their real price (450$)?
1 week later: XSX free, Sony throws up hands in disgust? lol
diffusionx
Gold Member
Because they don’t want to lose hundreds of dollars a unit if they can avoid it.
this whole thing is stupid anyway, we are entering a government-caused depression, with record high unemployment, I would be very worried if I was Sony, Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, etc.
Vawn
Banned
You would think someone like Pachter would know this as well. Why we give that guy any attention is beyond me.
dorkimoe
Member
I work for a fortune 50 company and the amount of hoops we have to jump through to do ANYTHING on this level. And people think they just drop it an hour before they sell it
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
I think gamers really want a repeat of the L E G E N D A R Y "$299" PS1 reveal that has been enshrined in videogame history. Every single generation we get hungry for someone to drop the B O M B A with a huge price disparity in their favor (or against them). Either way, a bunch of people are waiting like hounds behind a starter gate, knowing that price is going to be revealed soon.
Then the high-intensity interval trolling can commence.
16bitwarzvet
Member
time to sit back and watch two multi-billion dollar companies play a game of chicken!!!