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[fighterman101]

no they won’t. Look at the top ten best selling ps4 games. They’re basically all 3rd party. Most of the games people buy systems for can be played on either system. The cheapest console usually wins.

I agree with this when it comes to the United States and UK. However, I think rest of Europe and Japan (small market now) will go to Playstation no matter what.

 

[Vognerful]

As I remember they didn't say that xCloud was going to be free for all Game Pass subscribers, instead they said that you'd be able to stream your Game Pass games. But weren't clear if in the "Remote Play" part of xCloud (using your console as server) or if you pay the xCloud subscription on top of the GamePass subscription you'd be able to play them on streaming, or if only paying the xCloud subscription it will feature a number of games where the 100+ ones from Game Pass would be a part of them.

In the Sony powerpoint for investors where did talk about plans for the future, in a slide there was a picture saying that in the past games only were purchased on retail, in the present were bought digitally or in retail, and for next gen there would be a 3rd option that would be for streaming. But didn't offer additional details and I only saw the powerpoint, didn't listen the presentation.


Basically Sony dominates MS on every gaming market portion where they compete:

• Sony's gaming division has way more revenue and profits than the MS gaming division
• Sony has more than 2X the console hardware userbase, it's the market leader in userbase
• Sony sells more games (including 3rd) for their consoles, it's the market leader in revenue
• Sony sells more current gen exclusive games than MS, not counting Nintendo it's the market leader in exclusives
• Sony has more users in game subscriptions (Plus+Now vs Gold+Pass), it's the market leader
• Sony has more revenue in game subscriptions (Plus+Now vs Gold+Pass), it's the market leader
• Sony is the market leader in game streaming, MS still didn't release their service
• Sony is the most experienced in game streaming
• Sony has the biggest current library (700+ games) in a game subscription service, MS as of now has zero
• Sony is the (premium, non-mobile) VR market leader and the most experienced one. MS still didn't debut on VR

Consoles have to do with game streaming because the streamed games are console games so the game streaming users are console gaming fans even if they don't own a particular console. Sony has a bigger console userbase, game services userbase, and next gen annoucements generated more attention on social media. So Sony has the lead/easier job in marketing game streaming service.

As of now PS Now is available on PS and PC, so doesn't make sense to promote it with anyone else. They mentioned for their next gen plans to release PS Now on Android devices (which includes mobile, tablets, TVs etc), as they started to do with Remote Play recently.

xCloud still has not been released, so they don't promote it.

In fact, MS and Sony have their own giant marketing teams and don't need anyone else to promote their own stuff. And less with device makers, carriers or ISPs because they don't promote or sell game services.

Do you have sources to support these claims or are you running with them since there are more ps4s in the Wild than Xbox.

 

[NullZ3r0]

The real question is, are microsoft pockets deep enough to sell a console that is a steal even for 600 dollars at 400 dollars just to fuck sony in the ass??

MS has GamePass to soften the blow. MS can wipe their ass with $1 billion.

 

[yurinka]

Do you have sources to support these claims or are you running with them since there are more ps4s in the Wild than Xbox.

They come from public financial reports we see every year/quarter, public announcements from the companies or related official PR statements. VR market share and XBO sales estimation comes from public statements from top gaming market research companies (I don't remember which specific ones). The future PS Now plans are also from a public Sony powerpoint for investors. And regarding social media data I'm talking about likes.

 

[TLZ]

Streaming is becoming more and more important. That's where the money lies in the future not in some (timesd) exclusive 3rd person action adventure. I'm sure Sony will sell more consoles, but i'm not sure Sony makes more money than MS with gaming in the next 10 years.

But now you're assuming Sony won't be able to do the same with cloud gaming when they already have one in PS Now that already does streaming. And this is about a future you want to argue about that no one knows too.

 

[Komatsu]

So what happened in the last three gaming generations? By your argument they should have released their torrent of cash sometime in the last decade. What made you think they will do so NOW?

Microsoft did subsidize the original Xbox and the 360 by about $100-125USD/unit in their first few years, before gains in scale and some hardware changes closed the gap. Which is one of the reasons why the 360 did significantly better than the PS3 initially.

They did not have a 100bn USD in cash laying around *in the United States* in 2006, 2010 or 2014 for that matter. In fact, most of the cash pile they're sitting on right now was repatriated early in the Trump administration, when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passed and allowed a significant amount of resources to be brought in without significant tax liabilities . Besides all that, the company's massive increase in profitability is also reflected in their stock price: MSFT has gone up by 300% in the last five years. You can't compare Nadella's to Ballmer's Microsoft at all.

Again, I am not stating they will subsidize their upcoming console - though everything points in that direction. What I am saying is that they have plenty of resources to do so and if Satya & the new C-suite are serious about muscling in on gaming and making it in a priority, they have tools at their disposal which Sony cannot hope to match. Whether that will be effective or not, that's another discussion altogether.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Again, I am not stating they will subsidize their upcoming console - though everything points in that direction. What I am saying is that they have plenty of resources to do so and if Satya & the new C-suite are serious about muscling in on gaming and making it in a priority, they have tools at their disposal which Sony cannot hope to match. Whether that will be effective or not, that's another discussion altogether.

Well I find it amusing that you are claiming the warchest never existed until Trump is president. That's a new one. We will see what the reality is in 5 years.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

We had the exact same narrative this gen with the PS4 ending up cheaper than the XO.

This isn't how businesses work. These prices are put in place months, if not years ahead of time, and involve agreements with the a huge number of departments internally, manufacturers, distributors and retail, all of which care far more about the product in questions plan to achieve profitability, than what the competition is doing.

Not that they won't cut prices should they need to, obviously, but no company would be so sloppy with a product release as to let a competitor lead them by the nose like this, it's just not logistically possible.

Sorry for replying to a month old post but

Didn’t Sony originally have the PS camera bundled in, but cut it last minute to undercut Microsoft in price?

 

[lock2k]

Plot twist: PS5 is actualy Stadia with that white controller.

 

[Craig of War]

Let them undercut each other we the consumer benefit

 

[turtlepowa]

But now you're assuming Sony won't be able to do the same with cloud gaming when they already have one in PS Now that already does streaming. And this is about a future you want to argue about that no one knows too.

Sony is not pushing it like Microsoft, first party games day1 is a huge thing. Also the price for Game Pass Ultimate (Game Pass XB + Game Pass PC + Xbox Live Gold + xCloud) is just a steal. Streaming is inevitable, the question is just when and not if.

 

[Degree]

In addition to the $1 thing, Game Pass isn't a game streaming service. They are not comparable. xClout will be Microsoft's streaming service, not Game Pass. And we don't know how much is going to cost the xCloud subscription and how many games is going to feature, but we know that at least is going to feature the Game Pass ones.

xCloud will support Game Pass and if you have an XSX you can use xCloud for free. Basically you can use your XSX as a free xCloud Server.

 

[yurinka]

xCloud will support Game Pass and if you have an XSX you can use xCloud for free. Basically you can use your XSX as a free xCloud Server.

xCloud will have two parts:

-One, the one you mention, it's like Remote Play: you stream the games you have in your console to other device you own using your console as server. This one, like Remote Play, it's obviously free, because when you pay for a game streaming subscription is for 'renting' the games + heavy server usage. So in this case, it's normal to give you this feature for free because you are using your games and no server is required.

-The other one works like PS Now: you stream games you don't own from MS servers. So you pay a subscription for 'renting' the games + heavy server usage. MS said 'xCloud is coming to Game Pass' and that 'xCloud will feature your the Game Pass games'. They didn't mention if will be an optional addition to Game Pass (like paying an extra on top of the current game pass sub price if you want streaming), if there will merge Gamepass and xCloud into a single product keeping the current Game Pass pricing and supporting both services the same library, or if xCloud will be a separate sub with separate list of games and a part of them will be the Game Pass ones.

Didn’t Sony originally have the PS camera bundled in, but cut it last minute to undercut Microsoft in price?

As I remember the camera only has been used for PSVR. If they had planned to sell it with the console and at the last minute they decided to sell it separatedly then we'd have seen non-VR PS4 games for the camera, some sort of 'PS4 Kinect games'. And it wasn't the case. So I assume the camera was designed for PSVR since the start.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

xCloud will have two parts:

-One, the one you mention, it's like Remote Play: you stream the games you have in your console to other device you own using your console as server. This one, like Remote Play, it's obviously free, because when you pay for a game streaming subscription is for 'renting' the games + heavy server usage. So in this case, it's normal to give you this feature for free because you are using your games and no server is required.

-The other one works like PS Now: you stream games you don't own from MS servers. So you pay a subscription for 'renting' the games + heavy server usage. MS said 'xCloud is coming to Game Pass' and that 'xCloud will feature your the Game Pass games'. They didn't mention if will be an optional addition to Game Pass (like paying an extra on top of the current game pass sub price if you want streaming), if there will merge Gamepass and xCloud into a single product keeping the current Game Pass pricing and supporting both services the same library, or if xCloud will be a separate sub with separate list of games and a part of them will be the Game Pass ones.


As I remember the camera only has been used for PSVR. If they had planned to sell it with the console and at the last minute they decided to sell it separatedly then we'd have seen non-VR PS4 games for the camera, some sort of 'PS4 Kinect games'. And it wasn't the case. So I assume the camera was designed for PSVR since the start.

Sony reportedly nixed PS4 Eye bundle at 11th hour to cut price

A new report claims Sony originally aimed to pack its Eye camera with the PlayStation 4, but nixed it at the last minute to beat Microsoft on price.

www.cnet.com

That is what I was referencing. We did get Playroom so there might have been plans for more of them.

 

[Vognerful]

They come from public financial reports we see every year/quarter, public announcements from the companies or related official PR statements. VR market share and XBO sales estimation comes from public statements from top gaming market research companies (I don't remember which specific ones). The future PS Now plans are also from a public Sony powerpoint for investors. And regarding social media data I'm talking about likes.

Bro you made so many wild claims, don't expect me to let it slip if you are not going to support them properly. Hand waiving and saying "they exist!" is not enough for me. Here, I will help you in providing justification for your claimns while marking which one sound stupid:

• Sony's gaming division has way more revenue and profits than the MS gaming division

This is expected as Sony sold more consoles that xbox. Microsoft has PC and xbox as their base with over 60 million active user. the revenue of Playstation in 2019 was 18.72 billion and Xbox was 11.4. I could not find to net profit of MSFT gaming division so I stuck with revenue figures. PS4 sold 110.4 million units, each generating 169.5 USD revenue. On xbox, each active subscription generated 175.4 USD. Notice here I used the 65 million active subscription, not the estimated ~45 million xbox sold units. With this I argue that even if Sony is selling more consoles, games or subscription, MSFT is generating more revenue than sony is per console or user even when MSFT is selling their game pass for 1 USD like people like to argue.

• Sony has more than 2X the console hardware userbase, it's the market leader in userbase
• Sony sells more games (including 3rd) for their consoles, it's the market leader in revenue

You are just repeating the same argument as above.

• Sony sells more current gen exclusive games than MS, not counting Nintendo it's the market leader in exclusives

No point in this comparison since People don't need to buy their exclusives in the first place. Sony still sold less than 1 exclusive game per console and all their top sellers are 3rd party developers. Xbox is no different but their first party is not competing other games in sales. Also, refer to first point. Also, Nintendo just wipe the floor with Sony profits in 2019.

• Sony has more users in game subscriptions (Plus+Now vs Gold+Pass), it's the market leader
• Sony has more revenue in game subscriptions (Plus+Now vs Gold+Pass), it's the market leader

There is no way you can actually say this unless you are really aware of total XBOX gold subscribers. Unfortunately, MSFT does not disclose this information so there is no way to know. Please note that there is only 41.5 million subscribers to all PS paid services; that is only 1/4 of all PS4 sold. Expected since you do not need to PS plus to play online. XBOX on the other hand, has 45~50 million unit sold and would have a higher ration of subscribers to xbox gold as you have no other option to play online. Add the more than 10 million game plus subscribers and you can totally see xbox has more user subscribed to their services and as a result more revenue. Don't forget that Sony had Playstation plus is still fraction of xbox game pass subscribers even though they have more games and was lunched long before xbox service.

But this still a lot of speculation (yet better than your lazy claims thrown around)

• Sony is the market leader in game streaming, MS still didn't release their service
• Sony is the most experienced in game streaming

What market leader?! This means nothing when your services are only provided in handful of countries and their recent competitors (Stadia even though it is bad, Nvidea) are more well know than the their service and supported in more markets. Hell, why do you think they asked for MSFT services in Azure? Because their network is no match to other network competitors if they bothered.

• Sony has the biggest current library (700+ games) in a game subscription service, MS as of now has zero

I am sure you meant something else because for sure this is way false. In addition, Game pass is supported in more countries (including my country) than PS Now (not available where I live). Not to mention how many games you can only play through streaming.

• Sony is the (premium, non-mobile) VR market leader and the most experienced one. MS still didn't debut on VR.

Now you must be joking if you think PSVR is a premium VR. If your reference is what Samsung has then maybe I will excuse you. MSFT are more invested in AR lens. Can I claim that they are Market leader and Sony has none making it a point against Sony?

 

[SoloKingRobert]

Do you have sources to support these claims or are you running with them since there are more ps4s in the Wild than Xbox.

It seems like we can play Xbox games without owing a console, similar to Stadia. Maybe they'll include Xcloud with Xbox Live subscriptions?

Here's the link from the engineers themselves talking about Xcloud at Xbox London Event 2019.

"There's 2 things.. We are going to give you the games you own from the cloud or the games you've purchased in the future, and we will bring Game streaming to Xbox Game Pass so you are Free to discover and play anywhere and everywhere"

Edit: There's already over 3k games that will be available with Xcloud.

 

[Lebron87]

Let them undercut each other we the consumer benefit

I hope they reach $399 each.

 

[SupremeHoodie]

If they do this they WILL win back North America. This gen at the start they were a hundred bucks more expensive while also being the weaker console and still only got outsold by 4 million in North America.

 

[Vognerful]

It seems like we can play Xbox games without owing a console, similar to Stadia. Maybe they'll include Xcloud with Xbox Live subscriptions?

Here's the link from the engineers themselves talking about Xcloud at Xbox London Event 2019.





Edit: There's already over 3k games that will be available with Xcloud.

I was actually referring to his other claims. But I am also excited about xcloud.

 

[Degree]

If they do this they WILL win back North America. This gen at the start they were a hundred bucks more expensive while also being the weaker console and still only got outsold by 4 million in North America.

yeah. They will easily win in the US. Especially with game pass and xCloud. And no Kinect, no higher price etc and many more studios now.

 

[Agnostic2020]

In my opinion it is given,
MS will undercut sony.

XSX $399
XSS $149

PS5 $499 to $549