• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Microsoft Says Sony Will Benefit From Launching First-Party Games on PS Plus

Banjo64

cumsessed
Again, these are mental gymnastics. Phil Spencer explicitly said that they're not burning any money.
I’m just stating a fact. Also, ‘burning cash’ suggests making heavy losses. Nothing more.

again profitable means they making money , sustainable means they aint loosing money. there isn't any loss in there your just reading into it what you want to read
You might want to read the definition of sustainability;

sus·tain·abil·ity
[səsteɪnəˈbɪlɪti]

NOUN
  1. the ability to be maintained at a certain rate or level
 

phil_t98

Member
I’m just stating a fact. Also, ‘burning cash’ suggests making heavy losses. Nothing more.


You might want to read the definition of sustainability;

sus·tain·abil·ity
[səsteɪnəˈbɪlɪti]

NOUN
  1. the ability to be maintained at a certain rate or level


again read what he said , they are not burning cash it is sustainable. you are reading into it what you want.


if it is so unprofitable why would Sony change PSnow into what it is today to try and get more subs. they aint as cash rich as Microsoft so you saying they will go out of business with this model pretty soon?
 
Last edited:

Banjo64

cumsessed
What 2 to 3 games did Sony have last year? Come on AAA games?

If you’re trying to compare Sony’s 2021 with Microsoft’s 2022 that’s pretty mental. Ratchet and Returnal alone had high production values and were original, highly rated games. I’ve never seen a drought like Xbox’s 2022 from one of the big three, ever.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
again read what he said , they are not burning cash it is sustainable. you are reading into it what you want.
Yeah, they aren’t making heavy losses, they can sustain the current losses.

if it is so unprofitable why would Sony change PSnow into what it is today to try and get more subs. they aint as cash rich as Microsoft so you saying they will go out of business with this model pretty soon?
Because usually they will recoup all of their development costs, and turn a profit on a game, with game sales before adding them to their subscription service (y)
 

phil_t98

Member
If you’re trying to compare Sony’s 2021 with Microsoft’s 2022 that’s pretty mental. Ratchet and Returnal alone had high production values and were original, highly rated games. I’ve never seen a drought like Xbox’s 2022 from one of the big three, ever.


so 25million gamepass subscribers, Starfield round the corner. Cod coming to gamepass


2021

God of war Delayed
Horizon seros dawn 2 delayed
Gran Turismo & delayed

Sony had a bad year because of covid, this year Microsoft is hit.

Rerurnal was only published by Sony
 
Last edited:

phil_t98

Member
Yeah, they aren’t making heavy losses, they can sustain the current losses.


Because usually they will recoup all of their development costs, and turn a profit on a game, with game sales before adding them to their subscription service (y)

you have no idea what they are making. your guessing

Microsoft still see their games and still sell DLC plus gamepass. have you worked out how much money gamepass is making a year alone. billions!!!!!!!!! but guy off the internet doesn't believe head guy of the division of Xbox

you can also add that series consoles are tracking ahead of the 360 which was Microsofts best selling console
 
Last edited:
so 25million gamepass subscribers, Starfield round the corner. Cod coming to gamepass


2021

God of war Delayed
Horizon seros dawn 2 delayed
Gran Turismo & delayed

Sony had a bad year because of covid, this year Microsoft is hit.

Rerurnal was only published by Sony

Returnal and Ratchet releases last year. They still had two AAA games even when they were hit by covid. The fuck are you trying to pretend otherwise?
 
Last edited:

phil_t98

Member
Returnal and Ratchet releases last year. They still had two AAA games even when they were hit by covid. The fuck are you trying to pretend otherwise?

that they had 3 major games delayed, are you comparing the sales of Returnal to something like god of war? 560.000 copies in 2021. god of war would do that in an hour of the firs day of release and Returned wasn't a Sony owned studio then so lets not count that as a Sony released game they just published it at that point
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
so 25million gamepass subscribers,
:messenger_loudly_crying: I thought we were talking about sustainability/profitability/2022?

Starfield round the corner. Cod coming to gamepass
Soon™

2021

God of war Delayed
Horizon seros dawn 2 delayed
Gran Turismo & delayed

Sony had a bad year because of covid, this year Microsoft is hit.
Ok, they still had high quality games despite the delays to those games. Microsoft don’t.

Rerurnal was only published by Sony
Same situation as Ori, and personally (and I’m sure you do as well), I count Ori as an Xbox game.
you have no idea what they are making. your guessing
So are you, because Phil used obfuscating language. Unless you think the head of Xbox doesn’t understand basic terms like ‘profit’ and ‘sustainable’?

Microsoft still see their games and still sell DLC plus gamepass. have you worked out how much money gamepass is making a year alone. billions!!!!!!!!!

Christ :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
that they had 3 major games delayed, are you comparing the sales of Returnal to something like god of war? 560.000 copies in 2021. god of war would do that in an hour of the firs day of release and Returned wasn't a Sony owned studio then so lets not count that as a Sony released game they just published it at that point

And? The point of this argument from what i've read is that even if Sony had to delay their games they still had enough to not leave the year in a complete drought. Xbox doesn't.

Who the fuck is comparing sales? lmao what? Returnal is still a fp title so no its going to be counted
 
Last edited:

bootaski

Member
That's robbing Peter to pay Paul. You increase Premium subs, but then you sacrifice growth in Extra due to the content lacking. Gotta feed the subscription beast with regular content else people will unsubscribe.

The other obvious issue is: what's stopping anyone from subscribing to premium for 1 month, getting a game which retails at $70 and then cancelling?
The pool premium subs might pick from wouldn't have to be too big. Perhaps 5-7 high profile games, relatively recently launched, leaving the rest for potential inclusion in extra. Maybe limit this benefit to yearly subs, not monthlies.

Whatever it is, sony has to come up with some way of improving premium.
 

phil_t98

Member
:messenger_loudly_crying: I thought we were talking about sustainability/profitability/2022?


Soon™


Ok, they still had high quality games despite the delays to those games. Microsoft don’t.


Same situation as Ori, and personally (and I’m sure you do as well), I count Ori as an Xbox game.

So are you, because Phil used obfuscating language. Unless you think the head of Xbox doesn’t understand basic terms like ‘profit’ and ‘sustainable’?



Christ :messenger_tears_of_joy:


Second best selling game despite being on gamepass. You guys make up anything you want.

Ori is not a Microsoft game it’s just published by them. Same with Sony and returnal

25 million subs back in January so prob a lot higher now. Ever 4 months is a billion in the bank, work that out. Work out the interest on that alone yes they have to pay other games being on gamepass but a billion in the bank ever 4 months!
 

Godot25

Member
MS are putting big money into f2p type GaaS games.
Like any other company. Didn't Sony literally said that they want to release 10 live service games by 2025?
It's not like Microsoft switched to only GAAS because of Game Pass. Yes, Sea of Thieves, Halo Infinite and Minecraft are clearly GAAS. But I can guarantee you that Hellblade 2, new Double Fine game, new inXile RPG, Avowed, The Outer Worlds 2, Starfield, and several other first-party games won't be GAAS. So whole "Microsoft will only make GAAS because of GamePass" is clearly bullshit.
 

phil_t98

Member
And? The point of this argument from what i've read is that even if Sony had to delay their games they still had enough to not leave the year in a complete drought. Xbox doesn't.

Who the fuck is comparing sales? lmao what? Returnal is still a fp title so no its going to be counted

Do you compare the release of Returnal which was only published by Sony and sold less than a million to the gakes delayed.

Sony’s only real game they released last year was Rachet and Clank which was awesome but all the game studios suffers with delays, it’s happend to Microsoft this year.

With the amount of studios Microsoft now has they will start releasing titles at a steady flow
 
Do you compare the release of Returnal which was only published by Sony and sold less than a million to the gakes delayed.

Sony’s only real game they released last year was Rachet and Clank which was awesome but all the game studios suffers with delays, it’s happend to Microsoft this year.

With the amount of studios Microsoft now has they will start releasing titles at a steady flow

Your argument is dumb as fuck. Neither Returnal nor Ratchet and Clank compares to God of War. So I guess we gotta discount both of them for reasons?

In that case lets just discount all the games Microsoft released last year too since none of those compared to God of War. Guess they both had nothing last year then. Oh well
 
Last edited:

Banjo64

cumsessed
[/URL]

Second best selling game despite being on gamepass. You guys make up anything you want.
You’re just ranting and raving now.

What does this have to do with anything I have said?

Ori is not a Microsoft game it’s just published by them. Same with Sony and returnal
But (rather predictably) you’ve been happy to use Ori as an example of Microsoft’s first party in the past;




If you show some consistency in your views people will trust what you say, even if they disagree (y)

25 million subs back in January so prob a lot higher now. Ever 4 months is a billion in the bank, work that out. Work out the interest on that alone yes they have to pay other games being on gamepass but a billion in the bank ever 4 months!
If it was profitable, Phil Spencer would have used the term ‘profitable’.
 

phil_t98

Member
Your argument is dumb as fuck. Neither Returnal nor Ratchet and Clank compares to God of War. So I guess we gotta discount both of them for reasons?

In that case lets just discount all the games Microsoft released last year too since none of those compared to God of War. Guess they both had nothing last year then. Oh well

Where did I compare rachet and clank. Returnal wasn’t a Sony studio it was just published by them?

Rachet and clank is a major game release

That’s all Sony had last year
 
Where did I compare rachet and clank. Returnal wasn’t a Sony studio it was just published by them?

Rachet and clank is a major game release

That’s all Sony had last year

You're bringing up Returnals sales in comparison to GoW for no fucking reason at all. Like Ratchet and Clank is any better? Or any of the games Microsoft released last year

It was funded by them you clown. Just like any studio they own the game gets funded by them.
 
Last edited:

phil_t98

Member
You’re just ranting and raving now.

What does this have to do with anything I have said?


But (rather predictably) you’ve been happy to use Ori as an example of Microsoft’s first party in the past;




If you show some consistency in your views people will trust what you say, even if they disagree (y)


If it was profitable, Phil Spencer would have used the term ‘profitable’.


You don’t know what he would use , the words used were not burning money and sustainable.

Again you reading into it what you want.

Sony is loosing major money to with PS+ now it has become a sub service with loads of titles on there to that they have to pay for?
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
You don’t know what he would use , the words used were not burning money and sustainable.
He would use the word that describes the situation, being the head of Xbox. Profit and sustainable are not interchangeable terms and have different, clear meanings.

Again you reading into it what you want.
That’s actually you.

Sony is loosing major money to with PS+ now it has become a sub service with loads of titles on there to that they have to pay for?
Ok? Do I care?
 

phil_t98

Member
He would use the word that describes the situation, being the head of Xbox. Profit and sustainable are not interchangeable terms and have different, clear meanings.


That’s actually you.


Ok? Do I care?


Well you seem to care enough to comment about Microsoft lol

Again you don’t know the figures your reading it how you want it to be, they said they ain’t burning money.

We don’t know what the figures for gamepass are right now, we know that as of January it was 25 million, it could be 30 million now. Huge amounts of cash through the bank. Could be close to 4 billion a year from gamepass subs.
 

Godot25

Member
Profitable means profitable. Sustainability just means they can maintain it at whatever level it’s currently at. With a company like MS it would be sustainable for them to make losses for years.
Game Pass does not need to be profitable. Yet. Microsoft would be stupid as hell to chase profit from Game Pass atm.
Sustainable means that they are making good chunk of money on Game Pass that they are putting immediately back into ecosystem to warrant future growth.

It's a way that every growing business operates.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed

Three

Member
Like any other company. Didn't Sony literally said that they want to release 10 live service games by 2025?
It's not like Microsoft switched to only GAAS because of Game Pass. Yes, Sea of Thieves, Halo Infinite and Minecraft are clearly GAAS. But I can guarantee you that Hellblade 2, new Double Fine game, new inXile RPG, Avowed, The Outer Worlds 2, Starfield, and several other first-party games won't be GAAS. So whole "Microsoft will only make GAAS because of GamePass" is clearly bullshit.
I didn't even mention anything like this but if you think a single player game will thrive on a sub vs sales and a GaaS game would thrive on sales vs subs you're delusional. There is a reason Sony are making a bunch of GaaS games now to release day one on their PS+ tiers.
 

Godot25

Member
I didn't even mention anything like this but if you think a single player game will thrive on a sub vs sales and a GaaS game would thrive on sales vs subs you're delusional. There is a reason Sony are making a bunch of GaaS games now to release day one on their PS+ tiers.
I would honestly say that making GAAS game for subscription service makes less sense.
If i knew that only game I play is Destiny/Sea of Thieves why on earth would I subscribe to service like PS Plus/GamePass and pay every month to access those games? It would be cheaper for me to just buy that game and be done with paying monthly sub.
I sub to Game Pass because it offers me huge variety of games and overwhelming majority of them are non-GAAS games.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
There is so much defence for Sony’s current strategy to delay PS+ releases here. Where is that coming from? Am I the only one who jumped in at once on PS+ Premium and enjoy it a ton?
Ragnarök appearing day 1 on PS+ would be the biggest thing yet this generation as I see it.
Putting a game that makes over $180,000,000 in revenue day one into a $10 - 15 service would be the worst move
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
I would honestly say that making GAAS game for subscription service makes less sense.
If i knew that only game I play is Destiny/Sea of Thieves why on earth would I subscribe to service like PS Plus/GamePass and pay every month to access those games? It would be cheaper for me to just buy that game and be done with paying monthly sub.
I sub to Game Pass because it offers me huge variety of games and overwhelming majority of them are non-GAAS games.
Because you will sub to have access to sea of theives to not pay the asking price and play the small indie titles too like most people already have done throught this year. I'm not sure why we are even getting into this debate though when all I said was MS spent big on a GaaS game.
 

KungFucius

Member
Considering how few games they release and that not everyone buys them all, they might be able to make more by doing this. Instead they went the route of increasing price to 70 and controlling the availability of physical copies to keep prices high.
 

scydrex

Member
Yup every time Sony has success for a console gen they get greed going into the next gen.

They shouldn’t have increased the price of games to $70. That was a greedy move and that’s what makes game pass even more attractive, sure it’s only $10 but it’s just the principle of the situation.

Most of these games already have micro transactions and DLC which people are buying so games are making more money plus they have the new subscription service which is more money. The price increase was just stupid.

MS in the 360 era increased the price of the games from $50 to $60 and they were not coming from a console that has success the OG Xbox or it had? Was it greed? It outsold the gamecube for a bit that's for sure. Back then did the people had the same conversation about the price increase from 50 to 60 like now from 60 to 70? Don't know what's the issue about price increase i have a couple of years that i don't pay full price for a game anymore unless i love the game or want it at launch which is rare.

I saved $200 by subscribing to plus extra. Already finished ghost of tsushima, returnal, miles morales, now playing death stranding and will play demon soul after that. Also this month they gave Yakuza 7 want to play it too. You only mention gamepass but do you remember Sony have plus extra and premium now?
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
so 25million gamepass subscribers, Starfield round the corner. Cod coming to gamepass


2021

God of war Delayed
Horizon seros dawn 2 delayed
Gran Turismo & delayed


Sony had a bad year because of covid, this year Microsoft is hit.

Rerurnal was only published by Sony

If those games hadn't been delayed last year, they would have had a great 2021, but they would be in the same boat as Xbox with nothing to offer this year except a 3rd release in as many generations of TLOU.
 

tmlDan

Member
If those games hadn't been delayed last year, they would have had a great 2021, but they would be in the same boat as Xbox with nothing to offer this year except a 3rd release in as many generations of TLOU.
It wouldn't have been just "great" it would have been unrealistically huge and one of the best years ever. They already released Ratchet and Returnal that year, say they're delayed all you want they have still released games consistently since the launch of the PS5.

And phil_t98 phil_t98 saying Returnal was published, common its a Sony IP and was even then.

25 million people paying $15 for only 1 month is $375,000,000.
you're making the assumption everyone pays $15? we know a lot got long term discounts and some don't pay for ultimate.
 
Last edited:

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Yeah, not everyone is willing or even capable to bleed money like you, Microsoft. But here is advice for you, game pass would benefit greatly if you improve your games output...
 
huh? it is a fact if its an option? are you okay?

It's definitive that not everyone pays for Ultimate.
A bit simpler for you then. You said "we know a lot got long term discounts", do we really know that? You present it like it's a fact. I guess you must have some official quote that reflects what I assume is actually nothing more than your gut feeling.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
you're making the assumption everyone pays $15? we know a lot got long term discounts and some don't pay for ultimate.
We’re talking about Playstation, I got my Premium sub for $5/month by prepaying PS Now but I don’t think it works anymore, it was a pre-launch trick.

I’m making the assumption that the sub count for PS+ Premium could easily reach 25 million though, if they included Ragnarök day 1 and TLOUp1 and all the other upcoming 1st party games.

And the second month comes another $375,000,000.
Then another one.
Etc.
Another One Mtv Emas GIF by 2020 MTV EMA


25 million subs would rake in $4.5 billion in a year.
 

tmlDan

Member
A bit simpler for you then. You said "we know a lot got long term discounts", do we really know that? You present it like it's a fact. I guess you must have some official quote that reflects what I assume is actually nothing more than your gut feeling.
"A lot" does not mean the large majority but we don't really know either way, do we. A lot meaning plenty of people in public on twitter, forums etc have done so. "A Lot' is a subjective term depending on how you view it.

Either way, simple math cant say "yea, they make this much"
 
Last edited:

tmlDan

Member
We’re talking about Playstation, I got my Premium sub for $5/month by prepaying PS Now but I don’t think it works anymore, it was a pre-launch trick.

I’m making the assumption that the sub count for PS+ Premium could easily reach 25 million though, if they included Ragnarök day 1 and TLOUp1 and all the other upcoming 1st party games.

And the second month comes another $375,000,000.
Then another one.
Etc.
Another One Mtv Emas GIF by 2020 MTV EMA


25 million subs would rake in $4.5 billion in a year.
25 million subs is a number of people who have a sub, not people on free trials, discounts, w/o ultimate (PC majority players or people who don't need to play online).

I don't think you can dispute that you know they make that much.....it could be significantly less depending on many factors. That goes for the 47 million PS plus members too, but i believe Sony releases the revenue off of subs publicly, but i'm not sure.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
25 million subs is a number of people who have a sub, not people on free trials, discounts, w/o ultimate (PC majority players or people who don't need to play online).

I don't think you can dispute that you know they make that much.....it could be significantly less depending on many factors. That goes for the 47 million PS plus members too, but i believe Sony releases the revenue off of subs publicly, but i'm not sure.
There is a cost to run a service of course and have a nice selection of games in the game catalogue, but the subscription money adds up over time, and if the service is attractive it’ll just keep growing way past 25 million. It’s a great service but I think it needs a push from 1st party to elevate properly.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The subs already make or exceed that amount, and they don't just make it one time, they make it recurring.

You're making a bad analogy.
I don't think a lot of people understand that these subscription services are loss leaders for years, even decades sometimes. I don't think Sony wants to lose money

There's also people that would sub just to play God of War then cancel the subscription
 
Top Bottom