Hulk_Smash
Banned
??? Nintendo had cross gen exclusives on both the Wii and Switch.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft: Scarlett games will work across the whole Xbox family
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
- News
??? Nintendo had cross gen exclusives on both the Wii and Switch.
Vawn
Banned
No this is the opposite. PS5 can play every PS4 game, but this would be a PS4 has to able to play every PS5 game.
In essence, it would mean a PS5 would just be a PS4 Pro 2. Every new game would still be tied to the base PS4. This would be horrible and would limit how far developers would push the new tech.
Vawn
Banned
Not every game, just a select few titles during the transition period.
Even so that didn't matter much as a Wii was basically a GameCube with new controls and the Switch and Wii U are also very close in power as well.
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
i almost play only on pc, and console games port are exactly the same game with better framerate and all the bells and whistle activated.
no difference in core concept, physics, and many other things, so your example is exactly what people are talking about, prettier and with better framerate (so better gameplay) but same exact games.
i don't think this is what people wants with a next gen hardware...
ManaByte
Gold Member
Again, PC games aren’t limited by old hardware and some can even scale above currently available hardware. People need to stop overreacting.
Shmunter
Member
Microsoft is saying Xbox Two is forwards compatible
ManaByte
Gold Member
Look at Star Citizen. It can run...ok on “current” hardware. But put it on a PC with a high end CPU/GPU, a lot of RAM, and a SSD and it’s a game no console can touch.
DonkeyKong
Member
Ok, but I haven't seen/read anything that indications that new PS5 games won't be compatible with the PS4 , I would be very surprised if Sony did that, I can't see it to be honest
Vawn
Banned
You think every PS5 game for the entire generation will have to be playable on PS4 too?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Where does this say it applies to the entire generation of Scarlet. Oh, yea. It doesn’t.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
No, YOU clearly never played on PC. PC games are built on two sets of hardware; minimum spec, and recommended spec. PC games had to make the decision of what the minimum hardware was going to be, and made sure it run on it. You do NOT allow modern PC games to run on a 386.
This is exacly the opposite of what MS is doing, which is to make XboxOne the "minimum spec" of the Scarlet games, thus handicapping Scarlet into being inferior to its rival.
It would be bad enough if it is just 1st party games that had to run on 1S; if MS force third party Scarlet games to also run on 1S, Microsoft games are going to be monsteriously ugly compared to the competition.
There is one upside at least; Nintendo would be looking forward to all the Scarlet ports on the Switch, since it wouldn't be harder to run than 1S games.
Stilton Disco
Member
Except they are limited. Scaling upwards into theoreticals does not mean it's running the best it possibly could be on that future hardware. Even the previous holy grail of such games Crysis, runs into technical issues on modern rigs that can run it at max settings because it wasn't optimised for them (obviously).
People bringing up RDR2 and Star Citizen also seem to be conveniently ignoring the budgets those games have, as well as Star Citizen having been in development hell for years. They are not good examples of the shackles last gen hardware can place on games.
Better examples would be Watch Dogs and Shadow of Mordor. Both big budget games, both comprimised one way or the other by being cross gen. In Watch Dogs case, look at the well documented downgrades it received from announcement to release on PC because of having to cut content for 7th gen consoles. Conversely, the Nemesis System, the single best part of the game, was missing from the 7th gen version if SoM. That's what you can expect from this decision, not the two exceptional exceptions to the norn of game development.
Best case scenario you're looking at a Doom 2016 situation. Runs great on a toaster, a bit ugly compared to other games in the genre, but no one carss because it's fucking awesome to play.
Mistershine.
Banned
It didn't hurt forza horizon 2 at the beginning of this gen, I'm sure it will be fine.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Your Shadow of Mordor comparison kind of backfired. Right there is a perfect example of how something can be more complex on Scarlet, while missing features on the Xbox One S. The Nemesis system worked in the PS4/XBO versions, but it didn't on the older consoles.
pr0cs
Member
You only need to look at the overreactions and who are making them. They're in every Xbox thread but don't own a Xbox if that is any clue
ethomaz
Banned
Yes.
That is one of the biggest issues talked even in Gamasutra about PC.
In fact consoles hold PC too... you see a big jump in PC graphics when there is a new gen of consoles.
There is a reason Crysis is a 2007 game and not 2005... same for engines UE4 was build for this generation and we will probably get UE5 next-gen.
Last edited:
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Rest assured, i am not trying to "help" Xbox in any way. I am not owning consoles for the next few years. But I am just here to watch the train wreck and seeing how people are going to try justifying something that was going to backfire massively.
On the bright side, Scarlett will have no problem hitting 60fps for every single game. I know several posters who in theory should be happy about that. But i am not sure "playing XBOne games at higher frame rate" was what they had in mind for Scarlet.
I expect every single un-announced 1st party PS5 game to be a PS5 exclusive. Because that would be the only reason to not announce them this year.
Last edited:
Vawn
Banned
Yes. Games will always be somewhat hindered by whatever the minimum system requirements are. If a PC game has to be able to run on 15 year-old hardware, then it is limited compared to a game that could only run on the latest, most powerful machined.
Noboru Wataya
Banned
I think that they are doing the smart thing up front. it makes the console transition easier for existing XBO players and makes gamepass look like an even bigger deal to those jumping on board with Scarlett.
MS copied the iPhone strategy with the X revision, it seems they will follow that trend and chip away at the old consoles when it’s time. Just like how most IOS games only work on the newish models.
MS copied the iPhone strategy with the X revision, it seems they will follow that trend and chip away at the old consoles when it’s time. Just like how most IOS games only work on the newish models.
Last edited:
ManaByte
Gold Member
You don't play PC games.
Mochilador
Member
Day one BC would be amazing.
ManaByte
Gold Member
That's exactly what they're doing. But for some reason people like abandoning their previous game libraries and don't like pro-consumer decisions in the console space.
It's not but it might prevent new game ideas based around the new hardware , but that would be a small amount of games anyway
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Fixed hardware which you can optimize to.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Again, look at the start of this generation. Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system was a next-gen idea then. It only worked on the PS4/XBO versions of the game. The PS3/360 versions didn't have it because it couldn't work on those systems.
Every developer aims for the highest hardware currently available, and then scales down. They don't develop for the weakest hardware and scale up. That's not how it works. But people are making that argument in this thread for reasons.
GymWolf
Member
That game was developed with high end pc confiruation in mind, i can assure you that the same game created with old gen hardware wont be the same.(sorry for my english)
Also the game is not fully out or playable for the masses so it's kinda of a poor example.
Gta5 with more people and cara on street for the pc version is a better example, but the game is hos core is exactly the same.
CuteFaceJay
Member
So this is just an Xbox X 2.0?
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Pro consumer?That's exactly what they're doing. But for some reason people like abandoning their previous game libraries and don't like pro-consumer decisions in the console space.
At this point I find it interesting that it had became the term abused most by Xbox supporters for some reason.
Almost universally, third party studios try to do cross gen for as long as possible, until they are sure the new gen has enough customers to support AAA titles. You don't need to tell them to do otherwise.
But 1st party games are not made to make money. They are made to convince people to buy consoles. Sony, like they always do, will make PS5 games that could only be run on PS5, because it is the studio's job to convince people to buy a PS5.
Selling consoles is what 1st party studios are doing, first and foremost. If they can't convince you to buy a PS5 then they have failed. This has nothing to being pro or anti consumer. 1st party studios have a job to do and they will do that job or perish.
Or an Xbox1XUltra.
As some others point out, MS is only claiming to do this out of the gate in the short term. They obviously want to make Scarlet exclusive games at some point.
However, even in the short term it would do massive damage when directly compared to PS5 titles. I have head rumours of this several months back in a thread here, and back then I actually refused to believe it. But now MS has confirmed that Scarlet basically will have a soft launch in that there would be no exclusive titles for it in the short run.
But why though? My speculation is that the Scarlet games are behind schedule, as such MS is just buying time and using PR speak to disguise the issue that the planned Scarlet games are late. They NEED to launch in 2020, but the studios are just not ready.
Last edited:
ManaByte
Gold Member
The console market is going to become more like the PC and mobile market and some people are going to have the hardest time dealing with that.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
1st party games is what makes consoles different from PCs. And as long as 1st party studios exist, there will be 1st party games. You have not explained why Sony would want to handicap the promotion of PS5.
Remember, when Nintendo was promoting Zelda BotW, not once did Nintendo use a WiiU to showcase the game. The game was cross platform, but Nintendo deliberately used only Switch units in all the game shows and promotions. You know why? Because despite BotW being playable on wiiU, Nintendo do NOT want people to play it on the wiiU. Nintendo want people to play it on the Switch. That's what console platform owners want.
ManaByte
Gold Member
You're saying Nintendo produced copies of the WiiU Breath of the Wild they didn't want people to spend money on and play? They just flushed money down the toilet?
You think it could've been for those people who still had a WiU and wouldn't buy a Switch right away to have a game to play? Or was it just an elaborate troll by Nintendo to spend money manufacturing a game they didn't want people to buy?
Team Andromeda
Member
At a guess, I would imagine that the base Xbox hasn't been the lead platform for over 3 years and now even the One X isn't the lead I would imagine.
Quake wouldn't run at 60 fps on a 486, but technically it would still work on it, even if one really needed a fast Pentium PC. I don't see the difference here myself
ManaByte
Gold Member
The difference here is that people in this thread are trying to argue that the base Xbox One S is the lead platform for Scarlet, when it isn't right now.
It's the ultimate in concern trolling, while ignoring how game development really works.
GymWolf
Member
Rdr2 is not a good example either,...the game core is the fucking same on high end pc...
better framerate, better resolution and all the graphical setting pumped to max doesn't make the game different at all except for the eye candy factor.
Same physics, same ia, same density, same environment interaction, same animation, same everything, that game is the perfect examplee of what people are scared for next gen games on scarlett tbh...
Gta6 developed only on nextgen hardware is gonna be such a huge jump in everything from that title than people are gonna laught thinking about this topic...
Last edited:
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It doesn't matter what is or isn't the lead platform. What matters is that the game has to run on a very low minimum spec machine.
And i am not remotely concerned. No skin off my nose. I just want to make my mark here so next year, i can say "I told you so" when it lead to the inevitable.
As a i said earlier, i do not believe MS did this as any kind of strategic move; i suspect they are just masking the reality that Scarlet games are behind schedule. Maybe behind schedule a LOT.
I really don't think anyone at MS really believe it is a good idea to make Scarlet games compatible with Xbox1S. But they might have no other option available.
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's a good idea because you're not forcing people to buy a game twice. Someone who buys Halo Infinite on their Xbox One X will be able to play it, and then when they upgrade to Scarlet they'll get the intended experience for the game.
It's like having people to buy Modern Warfare on the PC for a Nvidia 970, and then forcing them to buy the game again on the 2080 for the version with raytracing.
Team Andromeda
Member
I would imagine since the One X hit the silicon stage and MS had One X development kits that was the lead platform for MS Teams and no doubt that has now changed to Scarlet now
Last edited:
ManaByte
Gold Member
The most powerful hardware is always the lead platform, and then you scale down from there. That's how it's always worked. But people in there are living in Bizarro World to concern troll.
Deanington
Member
Wait people are getting upset because you can play the 'latest/next gen' games on any X/pc system? I am really confused here. We got to a point where options are bad? We finally got to the point where pc players can play console games and vice versa and the uproar is that Scarlet games are going to be on older systems, what? What am I missing, seriously?
diffusionx
Gold Member
We don't really know it is 40-50 million, that's just a guess.
The One has been a disaster all generation. I would argue MS and their developers have more to gain long term by getting people to throw them in the trash and start fresh with the Scarlett. Selling the Scarlet as complete BC + enhancements makes more sense than selling Halo as the game that runs on Scarlett or your old underpowered console that struggles to display modern games at 900p and 30fps.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Literally no one is asking anyone to buy the same game twice. You are talking about cross gen games, which PS5 would have too. But i am talking about a complete lack of Scarlet exclusives, which is an entirely different cup of tea.
When i say Scarlet exclusives, i mean games that run on Scarlet but could not run on XBox1S. Since there would only be one version of the game in that case, there is no double dipping at all. So what you are saying have nothing to do with what i am talking about.
It isn't next gen if you could run it on current gen. By definition, it is not a next-gen title if it runs on a Xbox1S or PS4. it would just be a current gen game that was upgradable.
You are missing the reality that PC gamers have known for ages, that of being held back. My aging laptop could still run current gen games, because current console generation held tech back this much. If MS want to hold back Scarlet and stop it being showcased to the fullest with games only it could run, it is going to suffer badly for no good reason.
Last edited:
ManaByte
Gold Member
Some people want consoles to remain a closed system like an exclusive club.
So should there be games on the PC that are exclusive only to the highest end graphics cards and no one else should be allowed to play them? Because that's what you're arguing for.
Last edited:
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
That's exactly what they're doing. But for some reason people like abandoning their previous game libraries and don't like pro-consumer decisions in the console space.
BC solves the problem of not abandoning your old library, nice try
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yup and a PC with an HDMI port is what you are seeking and already have, but apparently you are not happy until gamers have no alternative to that model
.a multicultural team of v
Member
The SSD is going to make this decision even worse.
Farawayfromhell
Member
I'm not completely agree regarding this choice, I think games on Scarlet will have compatibility with One X and it's okay but not with all the family.
It's time to push the consumer to buy at least One X and to ritire One Fat to ensure a certain level of quality in games. (for god's sake)
Same argument for Playstation.
IMHO
It's time to push the consumer to buy at least One X and to ritire One Fat to ensure a certain level of quality in games. (for god's sake)
Same argument for Playstation.
IMHO
ManaByte
Gold Member
I think a lot of people in this thread don't understand that "Xbox" isn't a console anymore. It's a platform. The console is a plastic box that sits under your TV and allows you to play Xbox games on that. But you can also play them on your PC and when X Cloud launches your smartphone or tablet.
diffusionx
Gold Member
You say this like Crysis doesn't exist, and still looks impressive 12 years after release.
Were you outraged when Super Mario World didn't run on the NES? Or Uncharted on the PS2? I mean, this is how consoles work. We are supposed to get "better" games because the devs have more resources to work with. Even on PC and mobile, though, which don't have generations, you have older hardware being abandoned over time as the games outgrow them.
MS locking themselves to hardware that was underpowered in 2012 is not really a good thing.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yes, that game was called Crysis. It wasn't a meme, that existed. And the original Doom certainly require a beefy rig at launch. i am starting to suspect you never played a single PC game.