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Microsoft to halt sales of Xbox and all it's products in Russia

You need to try and not be so emotional. Apparently your emotions have clouded your critical thinking skills to the point where the point I was trying to make, questioning the logic behind using civilians as pawns by fucking with their lives so badly in the hopes they overthrow their government, has been completely bastardized into "yOu'RE dEFenDinG puTin?!?!"

Don't be so dense.
The alternative would be a real war, at which point everything the current sanctions have done would have been automatically applied in a war setting. In a war it makes no sense to allow your enemy to continue trading with yourself or your allies. Sanctions is just war minus the troops. Do you think you can still sell Xboxes to Russia if American troops were sent to Ukraine?

Your mistake is thinking that Sanctions are some unusual or cruel punishment. No, it is not. Trade is not to be taken for granted, you do NOT have the right to international trade. Trade is only permitted when both sides allow it. it is not an automatic human right.

Thus you can't get an Xbox if you piss off America enough. The same as you can't get Playstations if you piss off Japan enough.
Note that Russia is replying in kind by stating they will refuse sale of any more Russian Rocket engines. You don't seem to have a problem with THAT sanction. (Good thing America don't need any more at the moment for the old rockets, and Elon Musk can supply new engines for future designs.)

I don't demand Russia to keep selling rocket engines to America. They have the right to "sanction" as they please. It works both ways.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
I hope all these virtue signalling companies keep the same energy for China when they invade Taiwan.
Ha, I wouldn’t count on it.
Remember when China was strangling the life out of Hong Kong and barely anyone in the media said boo?

Or how bout when they started Covid-19 which has literally killed millions worldwide and counting higher everyday, how’s that accountability going?
 
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kingfey

Banned
I hope all these virtue signalling companies keep the same energy for China when they invade Taiwan.

Also why didn’t these do the same when US invaded and caused havoc in the Middle East?
China makes 70% of the world market items. You ban them, and the world will collapse.
Russia is an old horse, which is easy to beat. Plus America and Russia hate each other. American companies can stop doing business with Russia because of that, and the world will follow them.

However, China makes business for Apple, makes business for Amazon, and other companies who have warehouses in China.

As long as that dependency exist, no one will punish china.
 
Ha, I wouldn’t count on it.
Remember when China was strangling the life out of Hong Kong and barely anyone in the media said boo?

Or how bout when they started Covid-19 which has literally killed millions worldwide and counting higher everyday, how’s that accountability going?
Good thing Taiwan is making chips that USA needs for their military hardware then.
Ukraine's defend is up to Europeans. But the Pacific Ocean is USA's turf.
 

kingfey

Banned
Ha, I wouldn’t count on it.
Remember when China was strangling the life out of Hong Kong and barely anyone in the media said boo?

Or how bout when they started Covid-19 which has literally killed millions worldwide and counting higher everyday, how’s that accountability going?
China can make the world crumble easily, Russia can't.
If China blocked production to the world, the entire world would be a mess.
 
China can make the world crumble easily, Russia can't.
If China blocked production to the world, the entire world would be a mess.
If China attacks Taiwan, the entire world would already be a mess one way or another. Taiwan might not be recorgnised as a nation but that is not the same as it not physically mattering. It hadn't always been this way in the past, but smart decisions had lead to Taiwan being a part of international supply chain of vital components that can't be easily replaced.

In any case, any attack would be easily detected ahead of time like with the assault on Ukraine. And the entire thing can be halted without violence if the US Pacific Fleet just innocently park itself in the middle of Taiwan Strait.
 
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I really hate the idea of punishing the people in these situations. It only plays into Russia's propaganda and drive to stir up nationalism. "Westerners hate you and want to destroy you, only daddy Putin cares about you". Sure in the US you gain a minor pr win with the rabid cancel everything we don't agree with morons. But overall it's just so short sighted. We won the cold war through soft power, and now we want to lose that goodwill among the people by denying petty shit that only harms the average Joe.
I’m not against sanctions in theory but I’m not sure whether they work. Trump cancelled the Iranian nuclear deal and slapped sanctions on them, and now they’ve elected an ”anti-west” president rather than the relatively moderate Rouhani.
 
I’m not against sanctions in theory but I’m not sure whether they work. Trump cancelled the Iranian nuclear deal and slapped sanctions on them, and now they’ve elected an ”anti-west” president rather than the relatively moderate Rouhani.
We are all aware of the effects of sanctions. But as I already posted, in this case we are only applying sanctions because troop deployment was out of the question. If MAD was not on the table then Russia would still get sanctions, but also get counterattacked by coalition forces. We are WAY past trying to have Russians be friendly; this is the maximum punishment possible without using actual troops. Russia is currently a true threat and is being treated like a threat.
 
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We are all aware of the effects of sanctions. But as I already posted, in this case we are only applying sanctions because troop deployment was out of the question. If MAD was not on the table then Russia would still get sanctions, but also get counterattacked by coalition forces. We are WAY past trying to have Russians be friendly; this is the maximum punishment possible without using actual troops. Russia is currently a true threat and is being treated like a threat.
So, ”we are all aware that sanctions don’t work but let’s do them anyway”?
 
So, ”we are all aware that sanctions don’t work but let’s do them anyway”?
Who said it doesn't work? It works, it just would take longer. I have no idea why you keep trying to pretend it doesn't work.\\

If Sanctions don't work, we would have kept trading with Hitler in WW2. Maybe selling him oil that he was so short of. If it doesn't work then why does every war also apply sanctions by default? Once again you are acting like sanctions were not an established historical thing that nations have always done. You treat it like some of kind of unproven 21st century new invention.

It works, it worked for as long as trade existed, and it will work as long as we still trade. And Putin is getting extra-crispy version of "going backwards in time" level sanctions.

Note that in places like Afghanistan, they are already in the stone age and smuggle everything they want instead of trading legally. So for nations like that sanctions do very little. But the higher tech level you were previously, the worse it hurts when you regress to previous ages.
 
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reksveks

Member
I’m not against sanctions in theory but I’m not sure whether they work. Trump cancelled the Iranian nuclear deal and slapped sanctions on them, and now they’ve elected an ”anti-west” president rather than the relatively moderate Rouhani.
It was nice when we gave Iranian an off ramp to being apart of the global economy and then sadly the US/Trump took that away.

It doesn't always work because you have countries that become isolationist. Russia is a different case, its a country that was a player in the global economy to a much higher degree than Iran, North Korea or Cuba.
 
Not sure why the people of Russia are being pushined for the actions of their government. Also, not sure cancelling
Anything that may help to stop this war sooner the better. Sony and Nintendo need to do this next.

Exactly. Let's cancel the guy with the world's largest nuclear arsenal, isolate him completley and then watch him vaporize our cities. Sounds much better then just trying to open a dialogue and begin negotiating. Corporations need to keep their noses out of this before they cause further escalation.
 
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Who said it doesn't work? It works, it just would take longer. I have no idea why you keep trying to pretend it doesn't work.
Maybe they will work, but the track record doesn't seem to be the best. Or they will unite the Russians against the west and drive Russia to closer cooperation with China.
 
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reksveks

Member
Exactly. Let's cancel the guy with the world's largest nuclear aesenal, isolate him completley and then watch him vaporize our cities. Sounds much better then just trying to open a dialogue and begin negotiating. Corporations need to keep their noses out of this before they cause further escalation.
Lol at thinking that Putin cares about Sony and Nintendo. He just blocked FB but interestingly didn't block Instagram or WhatsApp. I wonder why?
 

lukilladog

Member
China makes 70% of the world market items. You ban them, and the world will collapse.
Russia is an old horse, which is easy to beat. Plus America and Russia hate each other. American companies can stop doing business with Russia because of that, and the world will follow them.

However, China makes business for Apple, makes business for Amazon, and other companies who have warehouses in China.

As long as that dependency exist, no one will punish china.

You know what they say, Values are not a thing unless they cost you something.
 

reksveks

Member
It's the collective of all the companies i'm talking about. Ridiculous they companies are enacting foreign policy.
Companies are responding to the desire of their employees and consumers.

What is your definition of 'enacting foreign policy'?

If a country was to enact a law that said that any person 'writing fake news' and had a punishment of 15 years, does a company pulling their company's service/product count as 'enacting foreign policy'
 

Fahdis

Member
The people actually defending Russia here and apparently being American at that shows just how distorted people have gotten with their political nonsense

No one is really defending Russia. Those who genuinly are, are idiots. On the other hand, those who are asking legitimate question in regards to the occupation have a right to discuss this instead of taking up pitchfork and knives.

I thought by now most of us should have learned by now Tyrants are not always a will of its people and second that we should always question the main narrative and why all this has happened.

Lastly, civilians are dying and preyed on. Ukraine deserves our help and sympathy. But I'd like everyone to also not have object constancy to other wars happening around the world that need just as much attention. Just because its not happening in Europe, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or requires our attention as well.
 

PeteBull

Member
No one is really defending Russia. Those who genuinly are, are idiots. On the other hand, those who are asking legitimate question in regards to the occupation have a right to discuss this instead of taking up pitchfork and knives.

I thought by now most of us should have learned by now Tyrants are not always a will of its people and second that we should always question the main narrative and why all this has happened.
There are tons ppl defending russia, even actual russian gaf member wrote huge wall of text- all lies trying to spout shit exactly to what official russian goverment line is- that putin is resqueing russian speaking ppl from evil nasists- ukrainians.
U get tons of unbiased media and dont look at narrative, look at civilian buildings crumbling under rockets, look at tv reporters getting shoot at with machine guns, look at women being raped then killed, look at children being born in basements/bunkers, u got vids and pics of that everywhere, u can make ur own conclusions, no tv reporter or what he/she saying is needed for u to see and comprehend what is actually happening and which of the side is evil agressor who is merciless.

Ppl in the west(not all but for sure sizeable part) got this western mindset/impression about what is war that they got from holywood movies, and as a polish guy whos grandma was 9yo when both nazi germany and after 2 weeks soviet russia attacked us back in 39, whos grandpa actually had to do years of slave labour in arbeitskamp(not deathkamp, thats why he survived, he got lucky)- war is nothing alike. War is tons of murdering, pain, hunger, raping, torture, fear, destruction and enslavery- if there can be done anything sanctions wise to stop it- its worth doing.
 

Mozza

Member
Might make a Series X a little easier to get hold of if none are being diverted to Russia, although the double standards at play here are mind boggling, with so many conflicts and wars all over the world that have been raging for years, and nobody bothers much, that's before you get the the U.S and U.K's conflicts that have never been all that justified. ;)
 
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There are tons ppl defending russia, even actual russian gaf member wrote huge wall of text- all lies trying to spout shit exactly to what official russian goverment line is- that putin is resqueing russian speaking ppl from evil nasists- ukrainians.
U get tons of unbiased media and dont look at narrative, look at civilian buildings crumbling under rockets, look at tv reporters getting shoot at with machine guns, look at women being raped then killed, look at children being born in basements/bunkers, u got vids and pics of that everywhere, u can make ur own conclusions, no tv reporter or what he/she saying is needed for u to see and comprehend what is actually happening and which of the side is evil agressor who is merciless.

Ppl in the west(not all but for sure sizeable part) got this western mindset/impression about what is war that they got from holywood movies, and as a polish guy whos grandma was 9yo when both nazi germany and after 2 weeks soviet russia attacked us back in 39, whos grandpa actually had to do years of slave labour in arbeitskamp(not deathkamp, thats why he survived, he got lucky)- war is nothing alike. War is tons of murdering, pain, hunger, raping, torture, fear, destruction and enslavery- if there can be done anything sanctions wise to stop it- its worth doing.
Bayern Munich Kiss GIF by UEFA
 

RydarGaf

Member
Exactly. Imagine if cloudflare, Amazon, google, and Microsoft all went “fuck you Russia, you get none of our services” - there’s literally nothing Putin can do about it, and it would completely decimate the Russian economy instantly. Businesses essentially couldn’t function, couldn’t communicate with each other via the internet, couldn’t trade, couldn’t accept payments, and couldn’t stop any DDOS attacks against them.

Does it suck for the Russian citizens that want no part of this war? Absolutely, but you know what? That pales in comparison to how the poor Ukrainians feel and the consequences of letting Russia just invade countries with no consequences.

There’s really no way out of this for Putin now that doesn’t end up with him not being their dictator. He brought this situation on single handedly, and even if he was to pull out of Ukraine now the damage is done. We’re watching the end of his reign in real time.
Wouldn't Russia's own Tech Companies like Yandex step in to replace the services offered Qmazon, Google, and Microsoft. Also, what about tech Companies out of China and India? They probably smelling blood now!
 

kingfey

Banned
Wouldn't Russia's own Tech Companies like Yandex step in to replace the services offered Qmazon, Google, and Microsoft. Also, what about tech Companies out of China and India? They probably smelling blood now!
Almost any company in the world, use these 3 companies products. I doubt Russian companies have what these companies have.
 

zaanan

Banned
those who are asking legitimate question in regards to the occupation have a right to discuss this instead of taking up pitchfork and knives
This. We ought to be able to question what we are being told. Especially in light of the notorious corruption in Ukraine, and how lots of rich people and politicians have availed themselves of said corruption. We ought to be able to suspend judgement until all the facts are in (real facts, not the soundbites thrown at us by interested parties).

But instead, this forum is becoming an echo chamber where anything that questions the official narrative of “Ukraine innocent angel, Russia guilty devil” is met with hostility. Mods are getting in on it, banning a Russian because... he had a Russian perspective? I would think that his opinion would be invaluable on a topic like this, whether you agree with it or not. Instead, I saw a lot of people dogpiling him, accusing him of lies; yet they offered no proof he was lying. At all. And then he was gone, banished for having the wrong opinion.

I thought this was a place where people could have honest opinions and argue their case, right or wrong. You disagree with somebody? Argue it out, and if they are intellectually dishonest, move on. But to ban a guy for Wrongthink?

Then I noticed the banner at the top of the page with a link to “support Ukraine.” And suddenly it all made sense.

People on this forum love to make fun of “the other place,” secure in their belief that this is very different. But in their pride, they fail to see it is morphing into the exact same thing. And it’s very sad.
 

kingfey

Banned
This. We ought to be able to question what we are being told. Especially in light of the notorious corruption in Ukraine, and how lots of rich people and politicians have availed themselves of said corruption. We ought to be able to suspend judgement until all the facts are in (real facts, not the soundbites thrown at us by interested parties).

But instead, this forum is becoming an echo chamber where anything that questions the official narrative of “Ukraine innocent angel, Russia guilty devil” is met with hostility. Mods are getting in on it, banning a Russian because... he had a Russian perspective? I would think that his opinion would be invaluable on a topic like this, whether you agree with it or not. Instead, I saw a lot of people dogpiling him, accusing him of lies; yet they offered no proof he was lying. At all. And then he was gone, banished for having the wrong opinion.

I thought this was a place where people could have honest opinions and argue their case, right or wrong. You disagree with somebody? Argue it out, and if they are intellectually dishonest, move on. But to ban a guy for Wrongthink?

Then I noticed the banner at the top of the page with a link to “support Ukraine.” And suddenly it all made sense.

People on this forum love to make fun of “the other place,” secure in their belief that this is very different. But in their pride, they fail to see it is morphing into the exact same thing. And it’s very sad.
This is a madman action, who invaded a country live, and has the nuclear power to end the world, if any country intervenes with military power.

Everyone all around the world is afraid of those nukes, putin has. This isn't some brown person with AK47, that screams Allah akhbar (I am musilim). This is a kgb person. He is been trained all his life to get things done. He knows very well, that US or any EU can't stop him. Because any military conflict means, Russian allies will aid Russia. IF US comes in to this war, then he will unleash the nuclear power that he has.

Only solution to not let ww3 or nuclear to happen, is cripple the economic of this insane person, since diplomatic is a failure with him. Pressuring Russian people will make them overthrow Putin authority, and avoid nuclear or ww3 scenario.

If we don't do that now, then the next destination would be territories close to Ukraine. This is the start of Hitler/Nazi occupation.

You might think this is bad, but that is the only option we have. Unless you want nuclear world, or ww3 scenario.
 

kingfey

Banned
Convenient way to cover up the dogshit sales of Xbox games and systems over there anyways. Smart by MS.
You know xbox isn't MS right? They don't have a choice. MS, the parent company is stopping selling all their products from Russia.
This is like Sony stopping all their products from being sold on Russia. PS division would have to abide that order.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Has Microsoft ever stopped doing business with the US?

Microsoft is an American company in the world's largest economy, so that would be pretty difficult to do in and of itself. It would be akin to killing business altogether.

And the USA, while it has wrongly invaded countries and soldiers and/or contractors for the U.S. have absolutely been guilty of atrocities, largely by rogue members of the military, private military contractors thinking they can just do as they please and going off the rails, it has never been U.S. policy to do what Russia is shamelessly doing, which is indiscriminately bombing civilian residences on purpose to inflict maximum suffering on the civilian population in hopes that it will help secure their victory. The USA also wasn't shooting emergency workers who would respond to put out fires or shoot emergency healthcare workers who would respond to save lives.

The U.S., though it isn't always perfect, does try to follow a set of guidelines or rules of engagement. Russia's military actively commit genocide in their wars and plan to in order to achieve their objectives. That isn't how the U.S. operates. I was 100% against the Iraq War. And the Afghanistan war went on for too long, but quality of life improved for the people who lived in the regions improved tremendously. They weren't repressed and had their rights taken away by U.S. forces like what Russia is intending to do in Ukraine.
 

RydarGaf

Member
Almost any company in the world, use these 3 companies products. I doubt Russian companies have what these companies have.
Russians have population close to 150 million who are very creative and full of invention.
They are not Afghanistan. They build their own aircrafts, video games, search engines, and cloud services.

Without foreign competition doing business in Russia, local professionals will step up to the plate to fulfill the gaps left behind by western tech Companies. Software development doesn't require import of materials from foreign lands.


Um, based on these articles I'm reading, Yandex is already replacing American tech companies like Amazon and Google



https://searchfacts.com/what-is-yandex/

What these tech sanctions are actually doing is pushing Russian consumers further into the hands of their local home grown tech corporations. American tech companies won't be able to be expand into Russian markets in future because they will be viewed with distrust and waste of time & investment.

Yeah, some of these sanctions are going to back fire.
 

kingfey

Banned
Russians have population close to 150 million who are very creative and full of invention.
They are not Afghanistan. They build their own aircrafts, video games, search engines, and cloud services.

Without foreign competition doing business in Russia, local professionals will step up to the plate to fulfill the gaps left behind by western tech Companies. Software development doesn't require import of materials from foreign lands.


Um, based on these articles I'm reading, Yandex is already replacing American tech companies like Amazon and Google



https://searchfacts.com/what-is-yandex/

What these tech sanctions are actually doing is pushing Russian consumers further into the hands of their local home grown tech corporations. American tech companies won't be able to be expand into Russian markets in future because they will be viewed with distrust and waste of time & investment.

Yeah, some of these sanctions are going to back fire.
Current DNA age, no country can sustain themselves with their techs.

You also have interconnected companies which depends on other foreign companies.

Swift for example, is serious issues for gaint companies who relies on credit card payments to get their revenue.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Russians have population close to 150 million who are very creative and full of invention.
They are not Afghanistan. They build their own aircrafts, video games, search engines, and cloud services.

Without foreign competition doing business in Russia, local professionals will step up to the plate to fulfill the gaps left behind by western tech Companies. Software development doesn't require import of materials from foreign lands.


Um, based on these articles I'm reading, Yandex is already replacing American tech companies like Amazon and Google



https://searchfacts.com/what-is-yandex/

What these tech sanctions are actually doing is pushing Russian consumers further into the hands of their local home grown tech corporations. American tech companies won't be able to be expand into Russian markets in future because they will be viewed with distrust and waste of time & investment.

Yeah, some of these sanctions are going to back fire.
These sanctions aren't pushing anyone in Russia to do anything innovative in regard to consumer and social tech. The sanctions will be lifted before most innovations are off the ground. As has been the norm with Russia, even if the sanctions aren't lifted most investment will go into the war machine and exploitable natural resources.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
This is a madman action, who invaded a country live, and has the nuclear power to end the world, if any country intervenes with military power.

Everyone all around the world is afraid of those nukes, putin has. This isn't some brown person with AK47, that screams Allah akhbar (I am musilim). This is a kgb person. He is been trained all his life to get things done. He knows very well, that US or any EU can't stop him. Because any military conflict means, Russian allies will aid Russia. IF US comes in to this war, then he will unleash the nuclear power that he has.

Only solution to not let ww3 or nuclear to happen, is cripple the economic of this insane person, since diplomatic is a failure with him. Pressuring Russian people will make them overthrow Putin authority, and avoid nuclear or ww3 scenario.

If we don't do that now, then the next destination would be territories close to Ukraine. This is the start of Hitler/Nazi occupation.

You might think this is bad, but that is the only option we have. Unless you want nuclear world, or ww3 scenario.
The argument of “he has nukes, ergo we can’t do anything but sanctions” is fallacious. It’s the same argument that has assisted in getting to this point to begin with. If you allow him to take one step, he will take another and another.

There is a difficult choice to make, but nobody wants to make it. As Kasparov said in his book “we are feeding the crocodile hoping he will eat us last.”
 

RydarGaf

Member
These sanctions aren't pushing anyone in Russia to do anything innovative in regard to consumer and social tech. The sanctions will be lifted before most innovations are off the ground. As has been the norm with Russia, even if the sanctions aren't lifted most investment will go into the war machine and exploitable natural resources.
These sanctions aren't pushing anyone in Russia to do anything innovative in regard to consumer and social tech. The sanctions will be lifted before most innovations are off the ground. As has been the norm with Russia, even if the sanctions aren't lifted most investment will go into the war machine and exploitable natural resources.
The damage is already done. If I was Russian, I would stop uploading any of my important files and work to One Drive and permanently switch to Yandex Cloud storage. I would also stop using Microsoft's outlook email because I don't want to wake up one day and find out that can't log into websites using my outlook email account..

It would be the same af if the international community put sanctions on the United States. Think about it.
Imagine if PlayStation and Nintendo-- which are corporations native to Japan--were to ban Americans from buying their games and from using their online multi-player services such as PS Plus. Your PS5 or PS4 console would become paper weight for any multiplayer games that required PS PLUS to work or free digital games you got from it as a perk.

You would never trust Sony or Nintendo again. You would buy all your future games on Xbox(American Owned) platform or Valve on PC .and thus shielding your gaming activities from international sanctions. You would do this even if those sanctions were only in place for a few months because you never know what your government may do in the future to trigger economic sanctions. And you don't want your investment in video game digital software library to go to waste or suddenly be snatched away from you
 

kingfey

Banned
The argument of “he has nukes, ergo we can’t do anything but sanctions” is fallacious. It’s the same argument that has assisted in getting to this point to begin with. If you allow him to take one step, he will take another and another.

There is a difficult choice to make, but nobody wants to make it. As Kasparov said in his book “we are feeding the crocodile hoping he will eat us last.”
Nuclear war means millions of people will die, and civilization will crumble.
This is not some forum talk. This is some serious situation, which will have huge implications on human species.

That is why other method is needed. 1 unstable man, can bring the end of the world as we know. And you know what happens, when the world is in dystopia.
 

RydarGaf

Member
Yandex Image Search is pretty good for... uh you know.. science :messenger_smirking:
Telling me you didn't read article without telling me.

"They are best known for owning the biggest search engine in Russia, but they are also involved in many other things related to technology and the internet.

These include:

  • Online advertising
  • Email services via Yandex.Mail
  • Ride hailing via Yandex.Taxi (in collaboration with Uber)
  • Self-driving cars
  • Maps via Yandex.Maps
  • App analytics
  • Data management
  • Smart home technology
  • A voice assistant called Alice
  • A web browser called Yandex Browser
  • Music streaming
  • eCommerce
  • Artificial intelligence
  • And many more…"
  • 🤣
 
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