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Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We’re Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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I don't like to fan the flames of console warring but ever since Sony did that disc handover video prior to the mostly digital reality we face now I've been rubbed the wrong way by their marketing, hell even the tag line "for the players" pisses me off. In reality that should read "for the shareholders". I still wish Sony fans all the best with their games and consoles.

Now that is out of the way I truly hope Xbox brings it in July. Like shits all over it. It would be glorious to see the progression from the failure of the Xbox One launch through Xbox One X and GP/platform successes to now Series X and games yet to be shown. I dislike the Sony marketing of SSD & variable rates bullshots as it's just to save face with their less powerful system. Sony first party know how to bring the graphics, no doubt, hats off to them in fact. Now I want to see Xbox in full flight swinging for the bleachers, making that touchdown or slamming that dunk in Sony's face. Here's hoping Xbox, and for me specifically 343, don't miss the winning moves after outplaying, leading drafting and phenomenal strategising all preseason.
 

SlimySnake

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Feb 5, 2013
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Do you not remember e3 2013? They publicly shot M$ is the face like a dozen times.

Both sides are petty as fuck. It's the business world.
my original post literally mentions the e3 drubbing. i get it. they have ptsd from it. but its time to move on.

they have been beating their chest over it for close to six months now. now they are being petty over how the ps5 gpu works. its way way more petty than anything sony did at e3.
 

Nikana

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my original post literally mentions the e3 drubbing. i get it. they have ptsd from it. but its time to move on.

they have been beating their chest over it for close to six months now. now they are being petty over how the ps5 gpu works. its way way more petty than anything sony did at e3.
Gonna have to call bullshit on that one. That e3 showing in 2013 is own of the biggest fuck you's in the business industry. Right alongside Sony's $299 moment.

Saying you have a more powerful console is one thing, but destroying you competitions entire strategy and mocking their policies at the biggest gaming event of the year is a different level.
 

GHG

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I don't like to fan the flames of console warring but ever since Sony did that disc handover video prior to the mostly digital reality we face now I've been rubbed the wrong way by their marketing, hell even the tag line "for the players" pisses me off. In reality that should read "for the shareholders". I still wish Sony fans all the best with their games and consoles.

Now that is out of the way I truly hope Xbox brings it in July. Like shits all over it. It would be glorious to see the progression from the failure of the Xbox One launch through Xbox One X and GP/platform successes to now Series X and games yet to be shown. I dislike the Sony marketing of SSD & variable rates bullshots as it's just to save face with their less powerful system. Sony first party know how to bring the graphics, no doubt, hats off to them in fact. Now I want to see Xbox in full flight swinging for the bleachers, making that touchdown or slamming that dunk in Sony's face. Here's hoping Xbox, and for me specifically 343, don't miss the winning moves after outplaying, leading drafting and phenomenal strategising all preseason.
Good god.

I thought I was on a sport team's forum for a second there.
 

DoctaThompson

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I remember @geordiemp saying not long ago how Sony's event was going to show how the Ps5 is a true next gen console and the xsx wasn't 🤣🤣.

Any nobody that came in here saying Ps5 was 20tf was instantly believed. While anyone who said otherwise was an ms shill.

I bet a random can still pop up on Twitter claiming "ssd gives ps5 25tf" and these guys will believe it lol.

Everything has backfired for them. They should just stay in the spec thread and not bother anyone else with their fairytales anymore.
This is too much!!




 

SleepDoctor

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my original post literally mentions the e3 drubbing. i get it. they have ptsd from it. but its time to move on.

they have been beating their chest over it for close to six months now. now they are being petty over how the ps5 gpu works. its way way more petty than anything sony did at e3.

Its been more like 3 months. We only got the Cerny presentation in March 18th. Why are you so bothered by pr speak?

I personally dgaf about it. Its doesn't change my opinions on what I like or dislike. All that matters to me is that they bring the games in July. But I'd be lying if I said I ain't enjoying the salt from the spec thread warriors. They spent everyday since the original showing of the xsx in dec just shitposting everything Xbox related and its all backfired.

Tf discussion failed

Console size failed

Console design failed.
 

SlimySnake

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Gonna have to call bullshit on that one. That e3 showing in 2013 is own of the biggest fuck you's in the business industry. Right alongside Sony's $299 moment.

Saying you have a more powerful console is one thing, but destroying you competitions entire strategy and mocking their policies at the biggest gaming event of the year is a different level.
their strategies deserved to be mocked. they were anti-consumer and fucking ridiculous.

variable clocks are not anti-consumer. having a less powerful console by 18% doesnt call for mocking. i dont remember sony mocking xbox's low tflops count at e3 2013?

sony has barely even talked about the competition this year despite having a better ssd. there is a clear difference here.
 

sonomamashine

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my original post literally mentions the e3 drubbing. i get it. they have ptsd from it. but its time to move on.

they have been beating their chest over it for close to six months now. now they are being petty over how the ps5 gpu works.
OK what i get from your posts is :
It's okay if Sony did it but for MS it's petty & it's time to move on.

its way way more petty than anything sony did at e3.
That's subjective, might vary depending on the interest / admiration of someone towards a brand.
 

SlimySnake

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Its been more like 3 months. We only got the Cerny presentation in March 18th. Why are you so bothered by pr speak?

I personally dgaf about it. Its doesn't change my opinions on what I like or dislike. All that matters to me is that they bring the games in July. But I'd be lying if I said I ain't enjoying the salt from the spec thread warriors. They spent everyday since the original showing of the xsx in dec just shitposting everything Xbox related and its all backfired.

Tf discussion failed

Console size failed

Console design failed.
you can go back to last year where they have been gloating about having the most powerful console. this is all they do. we get a million of these threads. downplaying the ps5 ssd, downplaying the variable clocks, gloating about the power. its constant. literally daily stuff at this point. the only difference is that omq121 isnt making these threads, its xbox execs. mod of war literally has him on a last warning. he isnt allowed to make console war threads here yet MS execs seem to be doing the same.

you're right. its exactly what console warriors do. and we should be allowed to call console warriors petty and sad. doesnt matter if its a gaffer or the xbox lead designer. they are both acting like losers.
OK what i get from your posts is :
It's okay if Sony did it but for MS it's petty & it's time to move on.


That's subjective, might vary depending on the interest / admiration of someone towards a brand.
yes. only if you lack reading comprehension, and see things in white and black.
 
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sonomamashine

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their strategies deserved to be mocked. they were anti-consumer and fucking ridiculous.

variable clocks are not anti-consumer. having a less powerful console by 18% doesnt call for mocking. i dont remember sony mocking xbox's low tflops count at e3 2013?

sony has barely even talked about the competition this year despite having a better ssd. there is a clear difference here.
1) We still don't know how those variable clocks will play out, how devs will optimize their games, what will be the compromise, the drops etc ...
This is vague, might be anti-consumer if the drops are noticable.
2) Sony barely talked about the competition this year because they have a weaker console, not like the most powerful console back in 2013.
yes. only if you lack reading comprehension, and see things in white and black.
i agree, but i don't understand when i read this below
you can go back to last year where they have been gloating about having the most powerful console. this is all they do. we get a million of these threads. downplaying the ps5 ssd, downplaying the variable clocks, gloating about the power. its constant. literally daily stuff at this point.

you're right. its exactly what console warriors do. and we should be allowed to call console warriors petty and sad. doesnt matter if its a gaffer or the xbox lead designer. they are both acting like losers.
1) like sony back in 2013 "most powerful console" hmmm yep they did that.
2) yes we get a million of these SSD threads.
3) yes downplaying the xbox series x power, literally daily stuff at this point.
4) amen brother, couldnt agree more.
 

Nikana

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their strategies deserved to be mocked. they were anti-consumer and fucking ridiculous.

variable clocks are not anti-consumer. having a less powerful console by 18% doesnt call for mocking. i dont remember sony mocking xbox's low tflops count at e3 2013?

sony has barely even talked about the competition this year despite having a better ssd. there is a clear difference here.
Staying they deserved to be mocked is bit facetious but to each their own.

They didn't mock TF in 2013 because TF weren't a marketing point then. Wasn't even a term people knew until that generation.

But the article in question is from an interview. He was asked a question and answered it. That's far different than Sony's approach when they have a clear power advantage. They attacked without being provoked and did it fierecly. Did anyone get on stage and ask Sony how their game sharing works? No. Yet they still attacked.

Microsoft is doing the same now that they know they have the Advantage. They will continue to for the rest of the generation the same way Sony did for years.


And marketing an SSD is much harder than marketing power. It's very easy to say we have the most powerful console and people will get it. How do you explain in marketing, well yeah we have the faster storage though.

If the roles were reversed you better believe Sony would be marketing the power. They have proven when they have that advantage they too market it.

Again, businesses are petty as fuck and saying one is worse than the other because of a marketing bullet point is just falling victim to the marketing the same way others do.
 

Nikana

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I remember @geordiemp saying not long ago how Sony's event was going to show how the Ps5 is a true next gen console and the xsx wasn't 🤣🤣.

Any nobody that came in here saying Ps5 was 20tf was instantly believed. While anyone who said otherwise was an ms shill.

I bet a random can still pop up on Twitter claiming "ssd gives ps5 25tf" and these guys will believe it lol.

Everything has backfired for them. They should just stay in the spec thread and not bother anyone else with their fairytales anymore.
Have to be kidding?
 

Dory16

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Mods, could you fix the title of this thread? Jason Ronald clearly means that they're not interested in unsustainable and therefore inflated Tflops numbers.
 

recursive

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Funny how all of the talk about how the PS4 ran games at 1080p and the Xbox One ran games at 720p/900p magically vanished in a puff a smoke as soon as the Xbox One X came out.
Yea and the 360 at 720p vs ps3 at 700p vanished when the ps4 released.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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The only people who talk 24/7 about TFLOPS are the Xbox marketing guys and their fanboys, and that's at least since the Xbox One X.
Oh bullshit.

For one, up until Cerny made that presentation and crushed their dreams, all you heard here was how PS5 was going to be 13-15TF. It was constant and everywhere. Oh and don’t forget 32GB of RAM. It wasn’t until it was revealed that PS5 was a weaker console did TF suddenly not matter. Which leads to the second point.

Secondly, why would PlayStation fans talk about TF when their toy is lacking in comparison? Of course TF talk died down from one side. But now it’s been replaced with SSD and RDNA 2.5 😆
 

Mister Wolf

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Oh bullshit.

For one, up until Cerny made that presentation and crushed their dreams, all you heard here was how PS5 was going to be 13-15TF. It was constant and everywhere. Oh and don’t forget 32GB of RAM. It wasn’t until it was revealed that PS5 was a weaker console did TF suddenly not matter. Which leads to the second point.

Secondly, why would PlayStation fans talk about TF when their toy is lacking in comparison? Of course TF talk died down from one side. But now it’s been replaced with SSD and RDNA 2.5 😆
Before that presentation they were expecting the Playstation 5 to match a 2080ti.
 
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sonomamashine

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I've seen personal attacks coming from several people in addition to petty console warring.

I'm just curious to see what happens in the end.
Unfortunately you can't control that, there will always be war concerning two brands, some people can't control themselfs.
You mean shutting down the thread ?
I don't think it's a good this, the reason down bellow. ⬇
Oh bullshit.

For one, up until Cerny made that presentation and crushed their dreams, all you heard here was how PS5 was going to be 13-15TF. It was constant and everywhere. Oh and don’t forget 32GB of RAM. It wasn’t until it was revealed that PS5 was a weaker console did TF suddenly not matter. Which leads to the second point.

Secondly, why would PlayStation fans talk about TF when their toy is lacking in comparison? Of course TF talk died down from one side. But now it’s been replaced with SSD and RDNA 2.5 😆
People on this forum are noticing and tired of sony favoritism in every single thread, and the lack of objectivity will hurt the forum identity.
 
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Jigga117

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their strategies deserved to be mocked. they were anti-consumer and fucking ridiculous.

variable clocks are not anti-consumer. having a less powerful console by 18% doesnt call for mocking. i dont remember sony mocking xbox's low tflops count at e3 2013?

sony has barely even talked about the competition this year despite having a better ssd. there is a clear difference here.
Why are you complaining about this? Why is this something to actually complain about I don’t get how you got an issue with a company advertising their shit. 2013 has nothing to do with 2020. MS has been steady providing info and introduced their console in December. Sony JUST started 2 months ago and just showed it a couple of weeks ago. Everyone here who has paid attention know who the suspects are that touted every insider who said the PS5 is this and that only to fall flat on their face and scream SSD and to this day downplay the Xbox even when they have been more open about their system and capabilities than Sony. Like some of get too salty over this shit. Y’all waking up with cold sweats about what MS says or might say tomorrow.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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I seriously dislike this people referring to others as 'kiddo' and 'son'

Who and what the fuck are you? Are you not able to have proper discussion without trying to belittle others?

Does calling others 'kiddo' make you more mature. GTFO with that horseshit.


You will have a very short stay on these forums if you're going to post that rubbish.

Reported.
Report away kiddo, lol. Just because I don't have an avatar doesn't mean that I'm new on here. You guys get butthurt over the dumbest things, which is exactly what my post was about. Everytime Phil or MS makes a statement about how the new Xbox is more powerful or straight forward it is vs the PS a section of GAF whines that they are being too cocky. Sorry, but the expectation some have that MS is supposed to just be meek and silent about their new console is just dumb.
 

CatLady

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He already made the point, i don't get the response.
You should know that this is business and in business there is no sportmanship, both company's only cares about money, not how such & such would feel about it.
Let's take this as example :


They will do the necessary to hurt competition, this is common knowledge.
You gotta admit that used game bit, while savage was on point and funny as hell. Loved it.
 

treemk

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I think MS will blow everyone away next month and only fan the flames! Halo, Perfect Dark (if true), Fable, and Flight Simulator will seal my preorder!

Some people forget the more competitive this gen is the more we the consumer win.
Flight Simulator will be GOAT on PC to a niche market.
All others are mis-managed IPs on life support.
 

quest

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Flight Simulator will be GOAT on PC to a niche market.
All others are mis-managed IPs on life support.
Considering forza horizon is probably the best in its class not all others are miss managed. Even gears had a solid game last time around. Now halo sure blew it the last 2 games.
 
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Redlight

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my original post literally mentions the e3 drubbing. i get it. they have ptsd from it. but its time to move on.

they have been beating their chest over it for close to six months now. now they are being petty over how the ps5 gpu works. its way way more petty than anything sony did at e3.
It really bugs you that Series X is more powerful doesn't it?

The best thing to do is just ignore the nasty men and we'll pretend that it isn't true. In fact, you know what? There's an entire thread just for that, it's called the 'next-gen speculation' thread. You'll be safe in there. :)
 

GODbody

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I'm not even sure what's going on in this thread.

Cerny has already stated that they went for a variable clock speed because a fixed power budget made the system easier to cool.

Source here

Microsoft went with a fixed clock speed because they wanted every console to have consistent performance without compromise.

Source here @ 04:00

To me, only one of these statements sounds like it was decided upon to mitigate the shortcomings of the console.
 
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quest

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I don't know why everyone is so upset this is what companies do. The brilliant 2013 E3 sharing video. Sony calling the 360 the xbox 1.5. Sony planting all these juicy quotes in the media this year to down play the series x. The crying over Microsoft playing the game Sony started playing a few decades ago. Just take your victory and enjoy it. Sony will win take 70% market share. Sit back enjoy the win you will live longer.


Of course, Kutaragi also took the time to bash the Xbox 360, which he likes to call, "the Xbox 1.5".
 
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SlimySnake

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It really bugs you that Series X is more powerful doesn't it?

The best thing to do is just ignore the nasty men and we'll pretend that it isn't true. In fact, you know what? There's an entire thread just for that, it's called the 'next-gen speculation' thread. You'll be safe in there. :)
lmao. i have already been cancelled in that thread by sony fanboys. keep your assumptions to yourself. you dont know me.

the original post i was referring to literally says the MS won the spec war and they have the most powerful console. you dont see me pretending that the ssd somehow makes it more powerful.

MS won. And yet you wouldnt know it from all the insecurity that reeks from their execs. Read the aaron greenberg tweet after the ps5 reveal. most powerful console. read the xbox tweets after the road to ps5 reveal. most powerful console. here we have THE Xbox designer literally mocking his counterpart over at Sony. This is pathetic fanboy stuff. Variable clock warring is bannable in the other thread because everyone kept using that to say the ps5 is 9 tflops.

It is getting tiresome. It comes across as desperate. A company that is confident in their product doesnt go around doing this. People keep bringing up the Sony e3 conference poking fun at the used game fiasco, but i dont see any mudslinging from Cerny on the ESRAM implementation or worse GPU. And this was when sony literally had a 50% faster GPU and 70% faster RAM. Twitter was a huge thing back then and people had a hashtag going to get sony to kill DRM. I didnt see anything from Sony execs gloating on and on about the xbox.

It's sad. the fact that they would get banned here for doing this should tell you how desperate this is. I like that this resonates with fanboys, but show these hundreds of tweets and interviews to anyone who isnt a 12 year old fanboy and they will tell you its kinda pathetic.
 

-Arcadia-

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Looking at the comment, I don't think Microsoft is wrong. My first question when seeing the new approach put forward by Cerny, was, okay, is this going make things harder for developers?

We'll see how that turns out, maybe they'll really cancel it out with some great developer features and support, and I believe Cerny talked about that very thing, but I'd expect almost some learning curve or added difficulty there, particularly as we move beyond launch, and into pulling the most from the system.

I don't think Sony is wrong either, however. This approach seems to be getting more oomph out of more affordable hardware, and things like that rumored $400 digital price may be possible because of it.

And certainly, as we saw from the conference, the PS5 is no slouch, visually. As of right now, the most impressive looking next-gen games are on this system, and the ball is in Microsoft's court to change that.

Point being, that if Sony hits a more mainstream price, while still delivering a big jump for gamers, and developers have to work a little harder, I don't see that as a negative.

That said, I don't see Microsoft promoting a more traditional, developer friendly approach as a negative either.

I see two talented companies taking two different approaches to hardware, and for those of us that truly geek out over this kind of stuff, it's going to be a lot of fun to compare and contrast this stuff.
 

Kerotan

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Funny how all of the talk about how the PS4 ran games at 1080p and the Xbox One ran games at 720p/900p magically vanished in a puff a smoke as soon as the Xbox One X came out.
And yet that ultimately didn't do shit for sales. Just shows it wasn't a big selling point for a console. The next gen won't be any different ps5 will sell more.
 

Dr Bass

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And yet that ultimately didn't do shit for sales. Just shows it wasn't a big selling point for a console. The next gen won't be any different ps5 will sell more.
Well I sorta disagree. If Microsoft starts putting out better games than Sony ... then I think the XS/S/X (btw I think this is how the line should be abbreviated from now on :messenger_tongue: ) has a chance to sell more, at least in the US. Globally is probably a tougher ask but if you had better versions of 3rd party games and the most compelling line up of first party games ... well, which platform would you prefer? I just think that's a huge ask right now given company cultures, experience, history etc. And I don't think the studios Microsoft has bought up will amount to much.
 

vkbest

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I don’t see how more options are bad for developers. Also, Microsoft has been the king of teraflops PR since the announcement of the X1.

In defense of this argument, Sony is also being misleading with their claim of 10+TF, which is only ammo for Sony fanboys to sleep good at night.
its not misleading, since the most developers will sacrifice some MHz on CPU for getting 10.3 TFLOPS. I suppose GPU profile will be something like 10.3 TFLOPS and 3ghz CPU.
 
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X-Fighter

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its not misleading, since the most developers will sacrifice some MHz on CPU for getting 10.3 TFLOPS. I suppose GPU profile will be something like 10.3 TFLOPS and 3ghz CPU.
But I thought the whole idea of a better CPU was that we could now have much more intelligent AI's, unique and diverse worlds that actually "live". If we are now going to use that power to put in the GPU to get better graphics then we still basically just got a gfx bump this gen.
 

cireza

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Microsoft made the right choices. No wonder Phil Spencer felt good about those choices after the PS5 was officially revealed.

Series X will be able to deliver 12 TFlops all the time with low frequency which will lead to a quieter and cooler console. As well as smaller and more powerful. Quite impressive. If it manages to be cheaper this will be a home run for the hardware part.
 
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Psykodad

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Well I sorta disagree. If Microsoft starts putting out better games than Sony ... then I think the XS/S/X (btw I think this is how the line should be abbreviated from now on :messenger_tongue: ) has a chance to sell more, at least in the US. Globally is probably a tougher ask but if you had better versions of 3rd party games and the most compelling line up of first party games ... well, which platform would you prefer? I just think that's a huge ask right now given company cultures, experience, history etc. And I don't think the studios Microsoft has bought up will amount to much.
Wishfull thinking. MS won't even any major title ready for at least the first year. Apart from Halo maybe.

So with 3rd party and (possibly) Halo, they're up against Spiderman, GT7 R&C and HFW during the first year.
 
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N1tr0sOx1d3

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I'm not even sure what's going on in this thread.

Cerny has already stated that they went for a variable clock speed because a fixed power budget made the system easier to cool.

Source here

Microsoft went with a fixed clock speed because they wanted every console to have consistent performance without compromise.

Source here @ 04:00

To me, only one of these statements sounds like it was decided upon to mitigate the shortcomings of the console.
Shortcomings? I think people have lost their minds in this tread. Look what Sony achieved with 1.8 TF with the Last of Us 2. Now.........imagine what Sony can do with 11 TF and Ultra Fast SSD.

A lot of crow is going to be eaten next year........a lot!!
 

Jigga117

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Shortcomings? I think people have lost their minds in this tread. Look what Sony achieved with 1.8 TF with the Last of Us 2. Now.........imagine what Sony can do with 11 TF and Ultra Fast SSD.

A lot of crow is going to be eaten next year........a lot!!
Which has nothing to do with the discussion. Not one person has said games are not going to look beautiful with the PS5. But fanboys say this about the XSX. The question/concern is the variable clocks since neither can be a full speed at the same time since it is variable. It isn’t hard as to why it is questioned when you come from overcooking computers and hearing boost as a thing.