Support NeoGAF

[DenchDeckard]

Do you genuinely believe it's a glowing report? It seems lukewarm at best, apologies if it offends (very) sensitive people. More hardware being available will increase revenue. Supply still hasn't met demand yet.

If you note my second paragraph actually says this period isn't representative anyway.. And like I said expect the next set of results to be a lot more impressive.

You guys need calm it down tho.

its their best quarter in 4 years and you are talking about it’s not that positive and sensitive feelings. I think everyone seems pretty chill, I know for a fact I ain’t feeling any way from your strange comments

fastest selling Xbox ever, but yeah…it’s not that good…

crack on, good man!

 

[SlimySnake]

Great hardware numbers, but services numbers give me pause. Breaking even compared to last year even after a strong launch of next gen consoles? What?

Gaming

• Gaming revenue increased $357 million or 11% driven by growth in Xbox hardware, offset in part by a decline in Xbox content and services.
• Xbox hardware revenue increased 172% driven by higher price and volume of consoles sold due to the Xbox Series X|S launches.
• Xbox content and services revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles on a strong prior year comparable that benefitted from stay-at-home scenarios, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions and first-party titles.

I thought they had Outriders and MLB The Show? Gamepass numbers were looking up and up. I believe they added something like 12 million users since April of last year?

I also dont know why they are blaming last year's quarter. What games released in the April to June period on xbox last year? I really cant think of any. PS4 had FF7 and TLOU2, but i dont remember seeing any major third party launches either. This year we had RE8 which shouldve been big. I still think they shouldve gone out and gotten RE8 instead of MLB the Show and Outriders. MLB is very American oriented and no one had even heard of Outriders before the face/offs.

Lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers as well. Really hope they start to churn out content fast because not taking advantage of hungry new console owners is a big missed opportunity. You arent selling consoles to make money. You are selling consoles to make sure those buyers spend MORE money which they dont seem to be doing right now. Absolutely insane if you think about it.

Would love to see Sonys numbers compared to last year. See if RE8, Ratchet and Returnal helped them post better numbers compared to last year when TLOU2 sold $240 million worth of copies in just one weekend, and FF7 sold a shit ton of copies in April.

 

[dcmk7]

I’m not sensitive, your attempts at ‘subtle’ trolling are just ridiculously piss poor

Trolling? For a different opinion. Ok.

I don't know what you think I'm doing but you certainly seem to be crying a lot about it. Like I said you're being way too sensitive.

 

[Bryank75]

So no GP numbers in 2 quarters now, guess we are already nearly hitting the ceiling there.

Also no profit figure... Probably means there wasn't any.

I can see the XSX is still selling out but the XSS seems to be dead in the water in Europe at least, seen similar pics from the states.

The third party drop was forseeable but I thought it would be greater, will be interesting to see how 3rd parties deal with it going forward.

 

[elliot5]

Great hardware numbers, but services numbers give me pause. Breaking even compared to last year even after a strong launch of next gen consoles? What?

Gaming

• Gaming revenue increased $357 million or 11% driven by growth in Xbox hardware, offset in part by a decline in Xbox content and services.
• Xbox hardware revenue increased 172% driven by higher price and volume of consoles sold due to the Xbox Series X|S launches.
• Xbox content and services revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles on a strong prior year comparable that benefitted from stay-at-home scenarios, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions and first-party titles.

I thought they had Outriders and MLB The Show? Gamepass numbers were looking up and up. I believe they added something like 12 million users since April of last year?

I also dont know why they are blaming last year's quarter. What games released in the April to June period on xbox last year? I really cant think of any. PS4 had FF7 and TLOU2, but i dont remember seeing any major third party launches either. This year we had RE8 which shouldve been big. I still think they shouldve gone out and gotten RE8 instead of MLB the Show and Outriders. MLB is very American oriented and no one had even heard of Outriders before the face/offs.

Lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers as well. Really hope they start to churn out content fast because not taking advantage of hungry new console owners is a big missed opportunity. You arent selling consoles to make money. You are selling consoles to make sure those buyers spend MORE money which they dont seem to be doing right now. Absolutely insane if you think about it.

Would love to see Sonys numbers compared to last year. See if RE8, Ratchet and Returnal helped them post better numbers compared to last year when TLOU2 sold $240 million worth of copies in just one weekend, and FF7 sold a shit ton of copies in April.

It's down slightly because last year F2P games boomed with sales in MTX. I'm not sure how lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers when they stated the decline in third party titles (includes F2P and existing titles, not just new 3rd party releases) was offset by first party sales and game pass subs. Obviously having fresh, new, first party games to sell would help, but I don't see it as hurting at the moment.

 

[dcmk7]

its their best quarter in 4 years and you are talking about it’s not that positive and sensitive feelings. I think everyone seems pretty chill, I know for a fact I ain’t feeling any way from your strange comments

fastest selling Xbox ever, but yeah…it’s not that good…

crack on, good man!

Actually you're wrong.

I said wasn't massively positive.

Increased revenue because of increased supply is expected no?

 

[Zones]

Don’t worry guys, Nadella is totally going to shut down a division making $15 billion and the Series X will be the final Xbox console.

Adding $15 billion revenue into the balance sheet is nowhere near the same as ‘making’ (aka profit) $15 billion.

 

[elliot5]

 

[DenchDeckard]

Great hardware numbers, but services numbers give me pause. Breaking even compared to last year even after a strong launch of next gen consoles? What?

Gaming

• Gaming revenue increased $357 million or 11% driven by growth in Xbox hardware, offset in part by a decline in Xbox content and services.
• Xbox hardware revenue increased 172% driven by higher price and volume of consoles sold due to the Xbox Series X|S launches.
• Xbox content and services revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles on a strong prior year comparable that benefitted from stay-at-home scenarios, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions and first-party titles.

I thought they had Outriders and MLB The Show? Gamepass numbers were looking up and up. I believe they added something like 12 million users since April of last year?

I also dont know why they are blaming last year's quarter. What games released in the April to June period on xbox last year? I really cant think of any. PS4 had FF7 and TLOU2, but i dont remember seeing any major third party launches either. This year we had RE8 which shouldve been big. I still think they shouldve gone out and gotten RE8 instead of MLB the Show and Outriders. MLB is very American oriented and no one had even heard of Outriders before the face/offs.

Lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers as well. Really hope they start to churn out content fast because not taking advantage of hungry new console owners is a big missed opportunity. You arent selling consoles to make money. You are selling consoles to make sure those buyers spend MORE money which they dont seem to be doing right now. Absolutely insane if you think about it.

Would love to see Sonys numbers compared to last year. See if RE8, Ratchet and Returnal helped them post better numbers compared to last year when TLOU2 sold $240 million worth of copies in just one weekend, and FF7 sold a shit ton of copies in April.

you raise some valid points, I’ll be interesting to see sonys numbers as we are in peak yoy comparison for the Covid bump. Will be really interesting to see how it stacks up. I expect Sony will be posting some insane figures that dwarf these but ms still seeing growth overall but a slight software drop could be the signs of gamepass eating into third party sales.

can’t think of what launched this time last year on Xbox. I think you are right that there wasn’t really anything? And it was more just the peak stay at home Covid insanity that was driving sales.

 

[SlimySnake]

So no GP numbers in 2 quarters now, guess we are already nearly hitting the ceiling there.

Nah, gamepass numbers were revealed in April. They are up to 23 million subscribers. Literally doubled from a year ago when they had just 12 million monthly subscribers. That service is growing fast. We will hear about it when they hit 30 million at Halo Infinite's launch.

No worries there. By the end of the gen they will be making $500-600 million a month from Gamepass alone. that's $6 billion from gamepass every year.

If there is a worry, it would seeing those flat game and content sales numbers. Are gamepass users actually buying games? I thought it was a meme, but now we might have to start taking it seriously. I have said this before but both MS and Sony live and die by their royalties on third party games and microtransactions. 30% on ALL digital sales is far more than $230 million a month from subs. We saw some very poor numbers come out of UK retail stores and now we are seeing some pretty average services numbers despite 2x more subscribers and a near 3x increase in new console sales? I remember seeing some Sony sales numbers and they said that launch window buyers typically spend an average of $1,700 on content compared to just $700 for late adopters. So if anything, their numbers should be way up instead of a 4% drop.

 

[DenchDeckard]

looks like the Xbox series consoles Are having a strong start to the Gen. Should pick up even more once the big games start to land.

Actually you're wrong.

I said wasn't massively positive.

Increased revenue because of increased supply is expected no?

oh ok, I agree. It’s not massively positive…just a positive qtr overall and deffo a different vibe from the Xbox one launch.

 

[Yoboman]

Adding $15 billion revenue into the balance sheet is nowhere near the same as ‘making’ (aka profit) $15 billion.

Do you? Revenue is the amount of money consumers are giving them and an annual $15 billion is more than respectable

As long as they are running even to make that happen then MS would be happy

 

[dcmk7]

looks like the Xbox series consoles Are having a strong start to the Gen. Should pick up even more once the big games start to land.



oh ok, I agree. It’s not massively positive…just a positive qtr overall and deffo a different vibe from the Xbox one launch.

Yeh! That's basically it.

Was a positive post in the main.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Well apparently numbers of any sort aren't the "be all and end all" for MS. Doesn't really make sense as they seem to be doing fine. If you stop sharing numbers you have a reason to hide them, and MS is far from the only company to pull such a move.

Sales numbers are the lifeblood of business by the way, so saying it's not the "be all and end all" is absolutely absurd. That's like saying your paycheck isn't the "be all and end all" for your money if it's the only income you have. Come again?

"We are doing great! Oh you want to know about sales numbers? Well if you want to figure all that stuff, that's not really important to us ... "

Anyway! Just prefer to deal with reality. These threads read so bizarrely. There is a certain continually used image, that I won't post, that is repeatedly used, fits yet again, and it always boggles my mind that it happens.



I don't understand this. So if someone doesn't have an over the moon take on the company currently hitting "last place" numbers in every important metric, your response is an attempt at mocking them? I don't think this reaction comes across the way you think it does.

Again Xbox is doing fine, and there is plenty of room to improve and grow. I just can't get over the reactions from the "Xbox-only" crowds in some of these threads. You're literally celebrating over a company that won't report numbers, experiences marginal growth, and is down in some categories. But pointing that out is just called reporting the news, it's not a bash.

To wit:

Microsoft reports weaker Surface and Windows revenue amid global chip shortage

Cloud and Office save the revenue day

www.theverge.com

P.S. Notice what The Verge points out about GP numbers. And, again, this is just "the news." This is not a "take."

They give numbers though, just not the ones the console warriors want, because they’re not an important metric to MS anymore.

You’re not getting console sales figures from ms, even if they were selling 10mil a quarter. you and the others need to accept this. MS didn’t change their entire $2tril company wide reporting metrics just to hide console sales from console warriors.

 

[yazenov]

"Xbox content and services revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles on a strong prior year comparable that benefitted from stay-at-home scenarios, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions and first-party titles."

Most important piece for gamepass. This is for those who are concerned for gamepass profit.

What profit? its all revenue> Microsoft hides the profit as usual for their Gaming division.


"revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles" The Gamepass effect on third party software sales is evident . Pushing people to wait for games to come to gamepass instead of buying them.

 

[Bryank75]

Nah, gamepass numbers were revealed in April. They are up to 23 million subscribers. Literally doubled from a year ago when they had just 12 million monthly subscribers. That service is growing fast. We will hear about it when they hit 30 million at Halo Infinite's launch.

No worries there. By the end of the gen they will be making $500-600 million a month from Gamepass alone. that's $6 billion from gamepass every year.

If there is a worry, it would seeing those flat game and content sales numbers. Are gamepass users actually buying games? I thought it was a meme, but now we might have to start taking it seriously. I have said this before but both MS and Sony live and die by their royalties on third party games and microtransactions. 30% on ALL digital sales is far more than $230 million a month from subs. We saw some very poor numbers come out of UK retail stores and now we are seeing some pretty average services numbers despite 2x more subscribers and a near 3x increase in new console sales? I remember seeing some Sony sales numbers and they said that launch window buyers typically spend an average of $1,700 on content compared to just $700 for late adopters. So if anything, their numbers should be way up instead of a 4% drop.

Those figures were not official and the Verge article is the place I got the information on them not releasing figures for 2 quarters. Free trials and promotions only go so far, I don't see them ever breaking through 30 million... not organically anyway.

Of course GP cannibalizes game sales, I always thought that was obvious... It's games like Scarlet Nexus that will suffer most.

 

[SlimySnake]

you raise some valid points, I’ll be interesting to see sonys numbers as we are in peak yoy comparison for the Covid bump. Will be really interesting to see how it stacks up. I expect Sony will be posting some insane figures that dwarf these but ms still seeing growth overall but a slight software drop could be the signs of gamepass eating into third party sales.

can’t think of what launched this time last year on Xbox. I think you are right that there wasn’t really anything? And it was more just the peak stay at home Covid insanity that was driving sales.

I actually just found a gameinformer page where they list all the games that came out last year. Looks like April saw the releases of CoD MW2 campaign remake. But that was only $20. RE3make. And well thats pretty much it.

https://www.gameinformer.com/2020

I guess Warzone was still new despite launching in march, and probably earned them a lot of MTX money?

If both Nintendo and Sony report drops, we can chalk it up to the covid bump.

It's down slightly because last year F2P games boomed with sales in MTX. I'm not sure how lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers when they stated the decline in third party titles (includes F2P and existing titles, not just new 3rd party releases) was offset by first party sales and game pass subs. Obviously having fresh, new, first party games to sell would help, but I don't see it as hurting at the moment.

But what First party games did they release last quarter? Maybe im in the gaf bubble but I am pretty sure MS hasnt released a first party game this year.

They also added 12 million monthly subs compared to last year so lets say the gamepass offset their third party decline by $120 million. How can we account for a $120 million gap in revenue? Wish they had released last quarters numbers as well.

 

[Stuart360]

Those figures were not official and the Verge article is the place I got the information on them not releasing figures for 2 quarters. Free trials and promotions only go so far, I don't see them ever breaking through 30 million... not organically anyway.

Of course GP cannibalizes game sales, I always thought that was obvious... It's games like Scarlet Nexus that will suffer most.

What?, they will be at 30mil by the end of the year, if not sooner. Probably over 60mil by the end of the gen.

 

[Hitchyhero]

Nice to see they are improving. Let's hope some day they improve enough to be confident enough to go back to report console and game sales.


It has a ton of great multis and BC games. What it needs is way more big AAA exclusives.

Why would report console sales when the main thing they now sell is gamepass.... Which is available on PC, console, Android, IPhone and browser.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Even blew past the 360 hey days. And done despite stock shortages.

The 360 was in short supply for it's first few months and cost $100 less so that's not as big of a deal as you think, the vast majority of consoles they are selling are at $499 which of course inflates the numbers. If you were comparing $399-$399 you'd likely see a different story. Plus the 360 really didn't kick in until it's second and third years anyway.

 

[Hitchyhero]

What?, they will be at 30mil by the end of the year, if not sooner. Probably over 60mil by the end of the gen.

"not organically".... Lol..... This forum is addicted to that phrase whenever it comes to anything xbox.

 

[JLB]

Hey MS, just give me a million or two to keep buying xboxes for some decades.

 

[dcmk7]

What?, they will be at 30mil by the end of the year, if not sooner. Probably over 60mil by the end of the gen.

Love the optimism, just curious why you think it would be 30 million by end of the year?

Last official figure was just over half that IIRC.

 

[Zones]

Do you? Revenue is the amount of money consumers are giving them and an annual $15 billion is more than respectable

As long as they are running even to make that happen then MS would be happy

No, that’s not necessarily how revenue works.

For example, if someone buys RE8 digitally from the Xbox Store, then Microsoft actually books that $60 as part of their revenue.

Microsoft then distributes 70% from that amount to Capcom.

This Is why revenue by itself alone is a somewhat meaningless number.

Case in point: Walmart’s revenue number compared to its profits.

By the way, it’s called breaking even and not ‘running even’.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

The fact that Game Pass and first party revenues weren’t even able to full offset that third party drop is extremely telling. It tells me that Gamepass growth is slowing, the costs of the service are increasing with so many developers to pay costs for and also that third party games are not selling as well, as many Xbox owners have enough in their sub and don’t need to buy third party titles as much any more, which I expected.

If Gamepass was making a profit, you can guarantee they’d be shouting it from the rooftops. Notice aswell that Satya highlighted the hardware sales figures, not so much on Gamepass performance.

 

[kingfey]

What profit? its all revenue> Microsoft hides the profit as usual for their Gaming division.


"revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles" The Gamepass effect on third party software sales is evident . Pushing people to wait for games to come to gamepass instead of buying them.

Tell that to scarlet nexus, you guys were looking down on it. Especially with blame gamepass was getting.

The game hit top6 in npd for US.
What more do you guys need, to understand that gamepass doesn't cannibalize game sales.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The 360 was in short supply for it's first few months and cost $100 less so that's not as big of a deal as you think, the vast majority of consoles they are selling are at $499 which of course inflates the numbers. If you were comparing $399-$399 you'd likely see a different story. Plus the 360 really didn't kick in until it's second and third years anyway.

Thats why it's impressive. Xbox just had the best trailing 12 months ever. So it's even higher than the best 360 years.

 

[SlimySnake]

Love the optimism, just curious why you think it would be 30 million by end of the year?

Last official figure was just over half that IIRC.

The rate of growth has been pretty steady. it was 12 million in April last year. Then 18 million in January. Then 23 million in April.

With MS first party finally firing on all cylinders with flight sim, Ascent, Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite all coming out within the next few months, 30 million is a very real possibility.

 

[Stuart360]

Love the optimism, just curious why you think it would be 30 million by end of the year?

Last official figure was just over half that IIRC.

Because they were at 23mil 6 months ago or whenever it was, and they were growing by 3mil a quarter for over a year. You dont do that then it suddenly stops for no reason. It could slow down sure, but you dont get growth like that then suddenly nothing.
I do agree that the way Microsoft reports this stuff makes it hard, and gives fanboys 'ammunition', but you just need to use common sense as well.
Like someone else said, when they hit another milestone like 30mil, they will probably report it.

 

[Bryank75]

What?, they will be at 30mil by the end of the year, if not sooner. Probably over 60mil by the end of the gen.

They don't have the scope for that type of exponential growth, there are too many hurdles and road blocks to enable that and much of their previous growth is down to upselling Gold subscribers with a steal of a deal and then a mix of other promotions and free trials.

The real test of its sustainability is coming, there is certainly a strong reason they didn't report figures for 2 quarters \ 6 months. Similar to how they hide their hardware numbers and profit.

 

[kingfey]

Of course GP cannibalizes game sales, I always thought that was obvious... It's games like Scarlet Nexus that will suffer most.

This is plainly wrong.

Seriously guys, didn't we just had npd charts last week?

The game freaking hit top 6 for that month.

What is your next excuse would be guys? That those numbers are low?

I honestly can't understand the mind of gaffers sometimes.

 

[dcmk7]

Then 23 million in April

Was that ever confirmed though?

I thought it was a rumour.. when that number broke?

Could/Prolly wrong but good to get clarification nonetheless!

 

[Bryank75]

The rate of growth has been pretty steady. it was 12 million in April last year. Then 18 million in January. Then 23 million in April.

With MS first party finally firing on all cylinders with flight sim, Ascent, Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite all coming out within the next few months, 30 million is a very real possibility.

Again, they never officially announced 23 million. Even the Verge states it's been 6 months since an official number on GP

 

[yazenov]

Tell that to scarlet nexus, you guys were looking down on it. Especially with blame gamepass was getting.

The game hit top6 in npd for US.
What more do you guys need, to understand that gamepass doesn't cannibalize game sales.

Ranking is meaningless since we don't have the ratio like the UK sales. Its been discussed already. Number 6 on PS5 software charts does not mean sales are equal on number 6 on Xbox due to various factors such as the shear amount of hardware sold (PS sells more hardware compared to Xbox which means more potential consumers )and Gamepass changing consumers buying habits, or renting habits.

 

[dcmk7]

Again, they never officially announced 23 million. Even the Verge states it's been 6 months since an official number on GP

Good to know I wasn't imagine that

 

[Kagey K]

I honestly can't understand the mind of gaffers sometimes.

For some of them it’s really as simple as “Not Sony = bad.”

 

[Bryank75]

This is plainly wrong.

Seriously guys, didn't we just had npd charts last week?

The game freaking hit top 6 for that month.

What is your next excuse would be guys? That those numbers are low?

I honestly can't understand the mind of gaffers sometimes.

Yeah, they likely are low sales mostly across the board except for COD and 1 or 2 others. I could certainly believe that.

 

[SlimySnake]

Was that ever confirmed though?

I thought it was a rumour.. when that number broke?

Could/Prolly wrong but good to get clarification nonetheless!

I saw it reported at several sites. I see now that it came from Jez lmao.

It's probably true because MS didnt deny it. A lot of websites picked it up.

 

[j0hnnix]

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

This is plainly wrong.

Seriously guys, didn't we just had npd charts last week?

The game freaking hit top 6 for that month.

What is your next excuse would be guys? That those numbers are low?

I honestly can't understand the mind of gaffers sometimes.

You realise that if all third party games fall in revenue, the chart still exists and will still rank them, right? Position on a chart doesn’t say anything about absolute sales.

Also, what else came out? Scarlet Nexus should be higher. I really want to play it, didn’t buy it yet because I have too much to play between PS5 and Gamepass.

 

[dcmk7]

I saw it reported at several sites. I see now that it came from Jez lmao.

It's probably true because MS didnt deny it. A lot of websites picked it up.

After the Switch OLED reveal, despite all the media saying a Switch Pro was very imminent.

I'm unable to put my faith in any rumour at this point.

 

[Riky]

Sounds pretty positive to me.

 

[Bryank75]

I saw it reported at several sites. I see now that it came from Jez lmao.

It's probably true because MS didnt deny it. A lot of websites picked it up.

Jez knows way less than you think, Jeff Grubb is the guy with more solid info. Jez was mixed-up lately between 2 leaks, showed he is low in the food-chain.

 

[TheGodfather07]

i always said i expect it to pass xbox 360 lifetime sales. we're about to have one of the best generations ever where everyone is doing well.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Sounds pretty positive to me.

I literally mentioned that the hardware figures, which you’re referencing, were what was highlighted by Satya in my comment which you reacted with a laugh to.

 

[Bryank75]

Sounds pretty positive to me.

That's great, nobody wants a streaming / cloud gaming future.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Stuart360]

i always said i expect it to pass xbox 360 lifetime sales. we're about to have one of the best generations ever where everyone is doing well.

I think its still too early to predict 84mil sales for X and S. I'lm still going to stick to my 70-80mil prediction.
We really need a full year of all the consoles sitting on store shelves to really get an idea where we are at.

 

[kingfey]

You realise that if all third party games fall in revenue, the chart still exists and will still rank them, right? Position on a chart doesn’t say anything about absolute sales.

Also, what else came out? Scarlet Nexus should be higher. I really want to play it, didn’t buy it yet because I have too much to play between PS5 and Gamepass.

That doesn't mean you are waiting the game to come to gamepass.

That is the excuse these guys use, to downplay anything about gamepass.

People went a head and bought the game, despite having tons of games on gamepass. They didn't wait for it to come to gamepass, as some smart people here claim it to be.

 

[Riky]

I literally mentioned that the hardware figures, which you’re referencing, were what was highlighted by Satya in my comment which you reacted with a laugh to.

Because you have no basis for your Gamepass is slowing spin. At the moment MS is still giving a low cost entry to the Gamepass ecosystem, it's a long term strategy and obviously not a huge revenue driver at first.
Therefore coming to the conclusion that Gamepass is slowing based on revenue is a nonsensical statement. When the service is full of permanent first party entries and those low cost entry deals are over not only do those accounts move to full price but the need to fill the service with expensive third party deals diminishes.