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#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series

APF

Member
Apr 13, 2005
11,312
4
0
I don't like it when "news" sources like Fox twist things to fit their narrative.
Fox News Corporation, long-known for their pro-gay agenda, said exactly what that has gotten you so concerned for the feelings of the poor PR folks* at NOA? What exactly is it you are talking about?


*who likely, IME dealing with PR folks, are probably personally sympathetic to this campaign
 
Feb 28, 2009
39,081
2
0
*Raises hand*

So what?

I feel it dilutes the message a bit if people aren't quite interested in the product they're campaigning for. Not to say you're one of these people, but many jump on board with little knowledge of what they're actually defending or opposing, leading to statements being misinterpreted and false assumptions. It ends up like a game of telephone. "A homosexual relationship bug was patched out to avoid game-breaking issues" turns into "Nintendo INTENTIONALLY killed a fan workaround to enable gay relationships because they are openly and maliciously anti-gay."

The result is a total misrepresentation of intent, which alters how people approach the campaign. Yes, the end result is the same that a group is being excluded, but creator intent definitely colors perceptions. If people think Nintendo were malicious in their exclusion, that is how the campaign will play out.
 

zhorkat

Member
Jun 25, 2013
1,048
0
0
California
I feel it dilutes the message a bit if people aren't quite interested in the product they're campaigning for. Not to say you're one of these people, but many jump on board with little knowledge of what they're actually defending or opposing, leading to statements being misinterpreted and false assumptions. It ends up like a game of telephone. "A homosexual relationship bug was patched out to avoid game-breaking issues" turns into "Nintendo INTENTIONALLY killed a fan workaround to enable gay relationships because they are openly and maliciously anti-gay."

The result is a total misrepresentation of intent, which alters how people approach the campaign. Yes, the end result is the same that a group is being excluded, but creator intent definitely colors perceptions.

Well that issue would be separate from whether or not somebody is interested in buying the game. Somebody who might want to buy the game could be incredibly misinformed about the topic while someone who would never buy the game could know everything there is to know about it.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
3
0
I'm very excited for this game and totally support Tye and his #Miiquality movement, but I think the entire thing has spun out of control and gotten away from his original intent. Tye wanted to raise awareness; not boycott Nintendo and generate tons of negative press for them.

It's not Tye's fault that Nintendo gave a shitty non-response that people rightly skewered.
 

Annubis

Member
Nov 29, 2012
4,409
0
560
Again, this analogy doesn't hold because the context is completely different. Sometimes things that feel instinctively like they ought to be symmetrical are not in fact symmetrical.

So LGBT get to complain and 'we' can't. Yeah, real nice...
(don't reply yet, I know this sounds terrible, but there's an argument right after explaining the sentiment demonstrated here)

I can understand that right now, for recognition and equality, it must be like this, but on the other hand, I'd just like for everyone to understand how it feels for the other side.

Yes, we are a majority and we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).
As much as you never asked to be like you are, it's not like anyone else did either.
This is why it's a hard issue because your weapon is the exact opposite of what you preach.

Again, I'll repeat at the end to make sure it's understood: I understand that not doing anything won't help and that for now, fighting poison with poison is about the best that can be done (although if anyone ever found something better, I'm sure both side would be overjoyed). I just hope this little insight can help understand the reticence.
 
Feb 28, 2009
39,081
2
0
Well that issue would be separate from whether or not somebody is interested in buying the game. Somebody who might want to buy the game could be incredibly misinformed about the topic while someone who would never buy the game could know everything there is to know about it.

You're absolutely right. If people take the time to educate themselves on the issue, I see no problem with them joining in on the campaign. However, I don't believe that to be case (even among people that were interested in it), at least if all this misinformation is anything to go by.
 

fugimax

Member
Jun 7, 2004
2,419
0
0
Mountain View, CA
I've heard about this game. It looks fun. I'll probably buy it. Until I stumbled onto this thread, I had zero idea about the controversy surrounding it. The game will sell just fine.

Will some of you here not buy it? Yes.
Will it materially impact long-term sales? No.

--

Note: This is meant only as a statement of fact. I actually support the cause. But the sensationalist attitude about the doomed future of this series because of this is just plain wrong.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
3
0
So LGBT get to complain and 'we' can't. Yeah, real nice...
(don't reply yet, I know this sounds terrible, but there's an argument right after explaining the sentiment demonstrated here)

I can understand that right now, for recognition and equality, it must be like this, but on the other hand, I'd just like for everyone to understand how it feels for the other side.
Yes, we are a majority and there we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).
As much as you never asked to be like you are, it's not like anyone else did either.
This is why it's a hard issue because your weapon is the exact opposite of what you preach.
Again, I'll repeat at the end to make sure it's understood: I understand that not doing anything won't help and that for now, fighting poison with poison is about the best that can be done (although if anyone ever found something better, I'm sure both side would be overjoyed). I just hope this little insight can help understand the reticence.

The poor marginalized straight people? Are you for real? You cannot actually be this delusional and egocentric, right?
 
Jun 7, 2004
14,567
1
1,470
The game gets patched people like you that have zero interest in the game do not buy it, it fails we never get a squeal or its japan exclusive, THAT'S WHAT.

If the game bombs because western audiences don't care about this type of game to begin with, then this discussion is moot. If the game fails because they have alienated people that would have otherwise bought the game, then the problem is Nintendo's and not on the shoulders of activists that care about an issue.
 

El Pescado

Member
Mar 2, 2006
6,613
1
0
38
NJ
It's not Tye's fault that Nintendo gave a shitty non-response that people rightly skewered.

There's no denying that Nintendo gave a horribly worded response, but there are also news organizations that are completely misreporting that response and twisting it into something even more horrendous.
 

Tomohawk

Member
Jan 16, 2014
2,193
0
0
I've heard about this game. It looks fun. I'll probably buy it. Until I stumbled onto this thread, I had zero idea about the controversy surrounding it. The game will sell just fine.

Will some of you here not buy it? Yes.
Will it materially impact long-term sales? No.

Well maybe it won't impact sales, maybe it will, but the point is to send a strong message.
 

InsaneZero

Member
Jul 25, 2008
3,960
0
0
So LGBT get to complain and 'we' can't. Yeah, real nice...
(don't reply yet, I know this sounds terrible, but there's an argument right after explaining the sentiment demonstrated here)

I can understand that right now, for recognition and equality, it must be like this, but on the other hand, I'd just like for everyone to understand how it feels for the other side.
Yes, we are a majority and there we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).
As much as you never asked to be like you are, it's not like anyone else did either.
This is why it's a hard issue because your weapon is the exact opposite of what you preach.
Again, I'll repeat at the end to make sure it's understood: I understand that not doing anything won't help and that for now, fighting poison with poison is about the best that can be done (although if anyone ever found something better, I'm sure both side would be overjoyed). I just hope this little insight can help understand the reticence.

The problem with attempting to create equivalence here is that there's one side whose entire lives have not been fairly represented while the other side really just wants to buy a game. The desire to keep just another thing in a hobby going doesn't really hold that same weight.
 

Annubis

Member
Nov 29, 2012
4,409
0
560
The poor marginalized straight people? Are you for real? You cannot actually be this delusional and egocentric, right?

This is the exact response I was hoping

I WOULD NOT GET.

(keep wondering why people don't support you)
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Sep 12, 2010
37,301
0
0
31
Canada
If the game bombs because western audiences don't care about this type of game to begin with, then this discussion is moot. If the game fails because they have alienated people that would have otherwise bought the game, then the problem is Nintendo's and not on the shoulders of activists that care about an issue.

The problem with that is we'll never know exactly why the game bombed if it does.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
3
0
This is the exact response I was hoping

I WOULD NOT GET.

(keep wondering why people don't support you)

Bold and in caps. Ooh, fierce. I'm sorry you typed some borderline insane stuff about "LGBT gang attacks" on heterosexuals or whatever but it's not like I have to automatically have to accept your flawed argument just because you took the time to make it.
 

Kazerei

Banned
Nov 25, 2010
12,123
1
0
So LGBT get to complain and 'we' can't. Yeah, real nice...
(don't reply yet, I know this sounds terrible, but there's an argument right after explaining the sentiment demonstrated here)

I can understand that right now, for recognition and equality, it must be like this, but on the other hand, I'd just like for everyone to understand how it feels for the other side.

Yes, we are a majority and we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).
As much as you never asked to be like you are, it's not like anyone else did either.
This is why it's a hard issue because your weapon is the exact opposite of what you preach.

Again, I'll repeat at the end to make sure it's understood: I understand that not doing anything won't help and that for now, fighting poison with poison is about the best that can be done (although if anyone ever found something better, I'm sure both side would be overjoyed). I just hope this little insight can help understand the reticence.

I am straight and I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Sep 16, 2007
22,506
8
0
Chicago, IL
Considering that the game is likely already being printed up as we speak, there was no other way this was going to end.

I mean, they can't really discard any printed materials, just to go back and implement a feature few will take advantage of, and they stand to lose advertising money if they delay it.

So it's best to just release it as is and let the activist types huff until they find some other social injustice to be outraged over.

Lol, that's so gross that you feel this way.
 

Annubis

Member
Nov 29, 2012
4,409
0
560
Bold and in caps. Ooh, fierce. I'm sorry you typed some borderline insane stuff about "LGBT gang attacks" on heterosexuals or whatever but it's not like I have to automatically have to accept your flawed argument because you took the time to make it.

There was no argument. Only insight. I was even supporting your cause.
Yet all I get is some jerk replies with ad hominem insults.

Now, I leave this thread remembering only that Marcel, this most probably LGBT person, insulted and attacked me while I was trying to help him and should refrain from ever doing the same for any LGBT again.

Good work Marcel.
 

Musolf815

Member
Apr 23, 2012
1,629
0
0
The poor marginalized straight people? Are you for real? You cannot actually be this delusional and egocentric, right?

Some of the sentiments I've seen like that remind me of this King of the hill quote:

HANK: It's all well and good to talk about equal rights until some man loses his job. How is that equal?
BOBBY: Yeah, and it's worse when they take away our favors, 'cause we're used to getting them!
 
Jun 7, 2004
14,567
1
1,470
If I were to hazard a complete guess, I don't think this kind of controversy really dooms the series. Yes, some people may opt not to support the title that otherwise would have. But at this point it could be a purely grass roots effort. For every person offended by their perception on account of Nintendo being bigoted, another may just be hearing about the game for the first time. I'm not infallible, but I think that if the game fails commercially, it's not because of the gay, liberal agenda.
 

Annubis

Member
Nov 29, 2012
4,409
0
560
Does it seem to you that these two clubs are symmetrical, or asymmetrical?

Yes actually. Both clubs follow the same rule and are made for the same purpose.
I don't think the pool of possible applicants should make one more moral/immoral than the other.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Sep 16, 2007
22,506
8
0
Chicago, IL
There was no argument. Only insight. I was even supporting your cause.
Yet all I get is some jerk replies with ad hominem insults.

Now, I leave this thread remembering only that Marcel, this most probably LGBT person, insulted and attacked me while I was trying to help him and should refrain from ever doing the same for any LGBT again.

Good work Marcel.

If your being an ally was such a fragile thing as to be dissuaded by a single poster on an Internet forum, chances are you weren't a very good ally to begin with. Way to be supportive.

Edit: ^ really lol?
 

APF

Member
Apr 13, 2005
11,312
4
0
If your principles are dictated by how well a single person on the internet regarded your ill-considered gift of "insight," perhaps it's time to question whether you are in fact a frivolous person.

Edit: haha sorry
 

Harlequin

Member
Dec 4, 2012
3,335
0
0
So LGBT get to complain and 'we' can't. Yeah, real nice...
(don't reply yet, I know this sounds terrible, but there's an argument right after explaining the sentiment demonstrated here)

I can understand that right now, for recognition and equality, it must be like this, but on the other hand, I'd just like for everyone to understand how it feels for the other side.

Yes, we are a majority and we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).
As much as you never asked to be like you are, it's not like anyone else did either.
This is why it's a hard issue because your weapon is the exact opposite of what you preach.

Again, I'll repeat at the end to make sure it's understood: I understand that not doing anything won't help and that for now, fighting poison with poison is about the best that can be done (although if anyone ever found something better, I'm sure both side would be overjoyed). I just hope this little insight can help understand the reticence.

I think the point here is that this is:

A) A game based on avatars who are highly personalised and who a lot of players directly identify with.
B) A game marketed at a very general audience.

So in this case, yes, the game excluding LGBTQs is just as bad as if it excluded straight people and straight people would have a right to complain if this situation was reversed (Not that such a situation could ever happen because making a game fulfilling the above requirements AND featuring exclusively LGBTQ characters would be even more nonsensical than this way around). However, it's an exception because most games, movies etc. do not fulfill those two requirements (or do not heavily involve relationships of the main character(s), anyway). For example, you would not get to complain that Brokeback Mountain is about a gay couple, just like I would not get to complain that Mr & Mrs Smith is about a straight couple (although I certainly would get to complain over the lack of gay protagonists in action films in general). That's because either of those do not fulfill requirement A. On the other hand, LGBTQs had a right to complain over the lack of LGBTQ options in Mass Effect 1 and 2. I can't think of any comparable game that fulfills requirement A and was targeted at LGBTQ audiences, though.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Sep 12, 2010
37,301
0
0
31
Canada
If I were to hazard a complete guess, I don't think this kind of controversy really dooms the series. Yes, some people may opt not to support the title that otherwise would have. But at this point it could be a purely grass roots effort. For every person offended by their perception on a Nintendo being bigoted, another may just be hearing about the game for the first time. I'm not infallible, but I think that if the game fails commercially, it's not because of the gay, liberal agenda.

I agree. In some way, this movement is giving the game more exposure, no matter what the person thinks of the same-sex relationship issue. And it's not really about the game anymore, (at least since the PR debacle) it's about Nintendo supporting or not the LGBT community.
 

InsaneZero

Member
Jul 25, 2008
3,960
0
0
If I were to hazard a complete guess, I don't think this kind of controversy really dooms the series. Yes, some people may opt not to support the title that otherwise would have. But at this point it could be a purely grass roots effort. For every person offended by their perception on a Nintendo being bigoted, another may just be hearing about the game for the first time. I'm not infallible, but I think that if the game fails commercially, it's not because of the gay, liberal agenda.

I think this kind of game wouldn't be as popular as Iwata might've wanted it be regardless of this controversy. Nevertheless, I think that they might as well work on reversing that perception since it's probably going to stick around longer than the game will if they don't act on it.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
3
0
There was no argument. Only insight. I was even supporting your cause.
Yet all I get is some jerk replies with ad hominem insults.

Now, I leave this thread remembering only that Marcel, this most probably LGBT person, insulted and attacked me while I was trying to help him and should refrain from ever doing the same for any LGBT again.

Good work Marcel.

This is what you said:

Yes, we are a majority and there we are more recognized, but it's still an inequity.
It's even worst when we get insulted and ganged upon like some of what I see in every LGBT thread (including this one).

Do you really not see what's wrong?

I also don't appreciate that you make the support of a cause that benefits a whole group of people contingent on how I react to your bullshit. Hopefully you can get out of your own head and be an actual ally rather than use this thread to do some "woe is me, the straight male" nonsense in the middle of your "support".
 

Annubis

Member
Nov 29, 2012
4,409
0
560
I also don't appreciate that you make the support of a cause that benefits a whole group of people contingent on how I react to your bullshit. Hopefully you can get out of your own head and be an actual ally rather than use this thread to do some "woe is me, the straight male" nonsense in the middle of your "support".

You're right, I'll only despise you. Apologies to everyone else. That was a bit melodramatic.
 
May 15, 2013
11,355
0
0
There was no argument. Only insight. I was even supporting your cause.
Yet all I get is some jerk replies with ad hominem insults.

Now, I leave this thread remembering only that Marcel, this most probably LGBT person, insulted and attacked me while I was trying to help him and should refrain from ever doing the same for any LGBT again.

Good work Marcel.

Are you sure your support was anything worthwhile if it could get shaken by a little spat on a gaming forum?
 

The Librarian

Banned
Apr 22, 2008
44,148
0
0
28
All I know about this is that, from arguing with some random dudes on Twitter, I should be okay with no same-sex marriages in Tomodachi Life because it's part of Japan's culture...or something.
 

zhorkat

Member
Jun 25, 2013
1,048
0
0
California
Yes actually. Both clubs follow the same rule and are made for the same purpose.
I don't think the pool of possible applicants should make one more moral/immoral than the other.

The context of the demographics of the school would be such that essentially almost every club in the school would be a place for white students to, as Cyan said, "meet up, to feel like they aren't alone, to get to hang out and talk with people who might be having similar experiences and compare notes and network." Do you still think that a Black Student Club and a White Student Club are symmetrical in the given situation?
 

HolyBaikal

Banned
Feb 16, 2012
5,705
0
0
Would it really be too difficult to add same-sex marriage to the Western localizations of the game?

If I understand, Tomodachi Life is a pretty random game that isn't about a heavy narrative. And it shouldn't take that much coding to allow same sex relationships.

I don't usually like localization and the changing of Japanese video games for American or Western audiences. It makes me feel alien as almost always it is some kind of censorship or the removal of something I really like and changing it to something I really don't like. Like making characters angrier, less cute, or more masculine. And it seems to be based upon cultural stereotypes a lot of times that people from my country don't like exactly what makes me happy. It makes me feel like my own country is against me.

But in this case, I think a localization of this kind would be just fine. Thankfully, American culture seems to be more forward on the subject of gay relationships than Japan. And I think it's okay for our localization to reflect that.
 
May 15, 2013
11,355
0
0
All I know about this is that, from arguing with some random dudes on Twitter, I should be okay with no same-sex marriages in Tomodachi Life because it's part of Japan's culture...or something.

Even if nothing comes from this movement, it was at least good for reminding me of all the bullshit mental gymnastics that come into play for issues like this.
 

Exterminieren

Banned
Mar 1, 2011
15,691
0
0
You're right, I'll only despise you. Apologies to everyone else. That was a bit melodramatic.
Well, you can go right ahead and despise me too, because I think you've spouted a pile of egocentric bollocks and showed an utter lack of understanding in an attempt to paint yourself as some kind of ally who's only looking out for us.

Sorry if you feel victimised by people pointing that out.
 

The Librarian

Banned
Apr 22, 2008
44,148
0
0
28
Even if nothing comes from this movement, it was at least good for reminding me of all the bullshit mental gymnastics that come into play for issues like this.

I deleted my responses to the conversation cause I didn't want me arguing with people like that in my Twitter history, but some of the responses...oh boy...

https://twitter.com/unrealbiscuits/status/464581825328054272
https://twitter.com/unrealbiscuits/status/464580493217120257
https://twitter.com/FartToContinue/status/464580365001453568
https://twitter.com/FartToContinue/status/464582517350481920