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#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
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You're right, I'll only despise you. Apologies to everyone else. That was a bit melodramatic.

I guess what happened will only deepen your contempt. I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm not going to smile at your lack of understanding just because you want me to.
 
May 15, 2013
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I'm not even sure why they're using this argument when the west is just barely starting to change its views on homosexuality to begin with.
 

Kazerei

Banned
Nov 25, 2010
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All I know about this is that, from arguing with some random dudes on Twitter, I should be okay with no same-sex marriages in Tomodachi Life because it's part of Japan's culture...or something.

Introduce them to Kuso Miso Technique ^^
 

-PXG-

Member
May 20, 2008
25,508
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NJ
I paid nearly zero attention to this whole thing. Has Nintendo responded as to why they won't reimplement same sex relationships into the game? Assuming they've been silent on the matter entirely, I don't think it's ideological. Now it's totally different if they have. Perhaps they just don't care enough to do anything at all, especially since, to them, it's a small niche game and it literally isn't worth their time or money patching it back in. It doesn't mean they are hateful or bigoted. They just don't care. I wouldn't take something like that to heart.

Of course they should put it in. It would make more for folks happy and hey, might sell a few more copies. It wouldn't hurt. Every one would win and go home satisfied
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Sep 12, 2010
37,301
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Canada
I paid nearly zero attention to this whole thing. Has Nintendo responded as to why they won't reimplement same sex relationships into the game?

They didn't take out anything. The whole glitch thing was a mess of a misunderstanding by the western press.
 
Feb 28, 2009
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I paid nearly zero attention to this whole thing. Has Nintendo responded as to why they won't reimplement same sex relationships into the game? Assuming they've been silent on the matter entirely, I don't think it's ideological. Now it's totally different if they have. Perhaps they just don't care enough to do anything at all, especially since, to them, it's a small niche game and it literally isn't worth their time or money patching it back in. It doesn't mean they are hateful or bigoted. They just don't care. I wouldn't take something like that to heart.

Of course they should put it in. It would make more for folks happy and hey, might sell a few more copies. It wouldn't hurt. Every one would win and go home satisfied

What was patched out was a game-breaking bug, not specifically a gay marriage/relationship thing, which was never actually programmed in.

The consensus among people that actually played the game seems to be it wouldn't quite work as you have little to no control over your miis actions, so putting the option in would actually make everyone bi rather than straight or gay. Some people like me would be totally fine with that, but it isn't exactly what this cause is going for.

What the OP, Tyeforce is aruging, is for the option to be included in a future entry in the series, still encouraging people to buy the game.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Sep 12, 2010
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So it was never possible at all to begin with?

Japanese players were able to make male-looking Miis, from what I understand, and assign them to female gender. And it's still possible and as far as we know, it will be possible in the Western version.

But this movement is trying to make it (read: same-sex relationship) a true, supported feature.
 

fernoca

Member
Sep 17, 2006
30,835
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So it was never possible at all to begin with?
Sort of. What was patched a separate bug in the game.
The same-sex pictures were the result of people creating female Miis, with male looks and posting pictures of them kissing/etc. across forums. That can technically still be done as there's no way to fix that.
 

-PXG-

Member
May 20, 2008
25,508
5
0
NJ
What was patched out was a game-breaking bug, not specifically a gay marriage/relationship thing, which was never actually programmed in.

The consensus among people that actually played the game seems to be it wouldn't quite work as you have little to no control over your miis actions, so putting the option in would actually make everyone bi rather than straight or gay. Some people like me would be totally fine with that, but it isn't exactly what this cause is going for.

What the OP, Tyeforce is aruging, is for the option to be included in a future entry in the series, still encouraging people to buy the game.

Ah ok
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Jul 22, 2009
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I am actually kind of surprised to the amount of people, both in here and the general press, that demands the inclusion of the same-sex relationship feature in *this* game? I thought it's a pretty known thing that it's already too late to include it and that the inclusion of the same-sex relationship was not something originally intended and caused a myriad of technical problems in the original game?

Note that I *do not* advocate that Nintendo or anyone else exclude LGBT concerns from their games, I just thought this particular campaign is aiming for results in Nintendo's next game, not this one.

Although I suppose NOA's response didn't help matters, only make it worse.

What the OP, Tyeforce is aruging, is for the option to be included in a future entry in the series, still encouraging people to buy the game.

Well, for better or worse, it seems like now people are encouraged to do the exact opposite.
 

Alfredo

Member
Jul 22, 2010
3,943
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580
Would it really be too difficult to add same-sex marriage to the Western localizations of the game?

If I understand, Tomodachi Life is a pretty random game that isn't about a heavy narrative. And it shouldn't take that much coding to allow same sex relationships.

It probably would require a lot of work to add it to the game for many reasons stated previously in this thread. I'll just quote myself:

I highly doubt this could be added in a post-game patch. I mean, it could be done, but it would require a ton of work.

First, they'd have to add a way to define a Mii's sexual preference. That's already a multitude of big design decisions. It could be a checkbox on the Mii creation menu or by observing your choices of interaction with other Miis.

Then they would have to create additional barriers to prevent incompatibile preferences from falling in love with each other (because you cannot directly control your Mii's feelings), which would also affect how romantic interrupts work. They'd have to create all new romantic scenes for each type of pairing (because it would be stupid and wouldn't do the subject justice if they simply just replaced one gender for another).

They would have to create adoption as an additional option to create children. Probably a ton of other stuff, too.

I guess they could just make every Mii bisexual, but I don't think that's treating the subject with the care it deserves.

But I'm also just guessing. I didn't work on the game, but from what I've played of the original Tomodachi Collection, seems like it'd require some significant changes to how the game works.

I'm wondering if they make a sequel, maybe they could give you direct control of your Mii, making a lot of the issues moot, since you'd be able to get your Mii to do exactly what you want and start relationships with exactly who you want. I'm guessing that's why it's not really an issue in games like "The Sims," because your male Sim isn't going to go make out with the guy next door unless you tell him to. But maybe giving direct control of your Mii takes away the charm and uniqueness of the game, turning it into sort of an Animal Crossing clone.
 

Amazeballs

Member
Jan 25, 2014
1,646
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This outrage is a sad state of affairs considering the overall hopeful tone of the Miiquality video. There's a clear cultural divide at work here and while I support the notion of gay relationships becoming the norm, history shows that indignation and outrage people have fallen into aren't the best mentalities with which to approach divides.

Have any of the Miiquality supporters tried writing to NCL or the developers directly? I feel it's best to discuss these issues with the developers themselves as they would have most insight on the matter. Whether or not you like it, the PR response from Trinen is to be expected since NoA take orders from NCL.
It probably would require a lot of work to add it to the game for many reasons stated previously in this thread. I'll just quote myself:

I highly doubt this could be added in a post-game patch. I mean, it could be done, but it would require a ton of work.

First, they'd have to add a way to define a Mii's sexual preference. That's already a multitude of big design decisions. It could be a checkbox on the Mii creation menu or by observing your choices of interaction with other Miis.

Then they would have to create additional barriers to prevent incompatibile preferences from falling in love with each other (because you cannot directly control your Mii's feelings), which would also affect how romantic interrupts work. They'd have to create all new romantic scenes for each type of pairing (because it would be stupid and wouldn't do the subject justice if they simply just replaced one gender for another).

They would have to create adoption as an additional option to create children. Probably a ton of other stuff, too.

I guess they could just make every Mii bisexual, but I don't think that's treating the subject with the care it deserves.

But I'm also just guessing. I didn't work on the game, but from what I've played of the original Tomodachi Collection, seems like it'd require some significant changes to how the game works.

I'm wondering if they make a sequel, maybe they could give you direct control of your Mii, making a lot of the issues moot, since you'd be able to get your Mii to do exactly what you want and start relationships with exactly who you want. I'm guessing that's why it's not really an issue in games like "The Sims," because your male Sim isn't going to go make out with the guy next door unless you tell him to. But maybe giving direct control of your Mii takes away the charm and uniqueness of the game, turning it into sort of an Animal Crossing clone.

This is what I suspected as well, and I wonder if the reaction would have been any different if this kind of contextual information was made clear to everyone. I doubt it would seeing as how the internet and context aren't on speaking terms.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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This outrage is a sad state of affairs considering the overall hopeful tone of the Miiquality video. There's a clear cultural divide at work here and while I support the notion of gay relationships becoming the norm, history shows that indignation and outrage people have fallen into aren't the best mentalities with which to approach divides.

What outrage?
 

ab.aeterno

Member
Jun 1, 2013
3,096
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365
I can't help but feel bad for Nintendo, they are constantly bombarded with negative press and most of the time they're misquoted. How many people even realize this wasn't a removed feature, but a fixed glitch? Not many. Nintendo is not saying "no to Gay marriage," that's absurd but it's click bait and it helps these sites who probably don't care get hits.

Uh, Nintendo said exactly that when, confronted with a campaign to add gay marriage to the game and series, instead declined to because they didn't want to provide social commentary. This has nothing to do with the bug from a while ago, and everything to do with Nintendo's response to this campaign. You may want to become familiar with what's happening before railing against people covering the issue exactly as its happening.

It ends up like a game of telephone. "A homosexual relationship bug was patched out to avoid game-breaking issues" turns into "Nintendo INTENTIONALLY killed a fan workaround to enable gay relationships because they are openly and maliciously anti-gay."

See above. This isn't about the bug, but their response to this campaign of "no."

So it's best to just release it as is and let the activist types huff until they find some other social injustice to be outraged over.
Ugh. What a gross attitude to have.
 
May 14, 2011
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Sorry if this was already brought up, but it seems same-sex marriage is currently only legal in 17 states, at least according to this site.
I would only guess that this may stop many retailers from selling Tomodachi Life. I would love to think that all 50 states legalizing same-sex marriage will happen very soon but I don't believe legislation will speed things up for a quirky little Nintendo port. And when it comes to Nintendo not wanting to make social commentary, I also don't think they want to point fingers and say "Well, those 33 other fellas are stopping this."
Let's hope that by the next game (if all goes well), same-sex marriage will be included along with all the states being totally fine and just as inclusive. I mean, even without the other 33 states the next improved and inclusive Tomadachi Life may have swung in under their radar if it wasn't for all the press.
Just a thought.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Jul 17, 2006
11,518
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Denver, CO
Woah, Jimmy Fallon just mentioned this issue in his stand up and the game isn't even out yet. I wonder if that's a sign of things to come as the game comes out and naturally gets more attention.

If momentium maintains and people and the media are loud enough at time of release, maybe nintendo can say they'll look into it for the next game.
 
Feb 28, 2009
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See above. This isn't about the bug, but their response to this campaign of "no."

ShockingAlberto's post from a few pages back:

This thinking died when it got to the mainstream press. The original movement may not have been toward a boycott, but it's evolved past that, and the general view now is that Nintendo's an anti-gay company.

That reputation's going to affect them in various ways but the most immediate and obvious one is that the first introduction most people have to Tomodachi is that it's the bigot game from Nintendo. A friend of mine in England reported to me today that it's all over the UK news that Nintendo doesn't want gay people in their games and actively stamped out fan workarounds to put it in.

This goes beyond reactions to Nintendo's poorly-worded response and into made-up scenario territory.
 

fernoca

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Sep 17, 2006
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If momentium maintains and people and the media are loud enough at time of release, maybe nintendo can say they'll look into it for the next game.
They already said it. :p
We have heard and thoughtfully considered all the responses
We will continue to listen and think about the feedback. We're using this as an opportunity to better understand our consumers and their expectations of us at all levels of the organization.
They can't mention a next game because no such thing has been announced. Then again, they announced that Pikachu detective game..years ahead; so...who knows. :p

So "they" are aware; just that..who knows. With more exposure and E3 close; maybe there will be an official statement from NCL sooner rather than later.
 

Hours Left

Member
Jun 28, 2006
33,689
1
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If Nintendo makes a true commitment to include same sex relationships in future games, such as further Tomodachi titles and other IPs where it would be relevant, like Fire Emblem, then I'll definitely give this game a go.

But as it stands right now, I have no idea that they are taking this issue seriously, or even see it as an issue at all.
 
May 14, 2011
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Best possible response.

Well done.

Hehe. That was a damn fine response. Reactionary, but damn fine.
True, murder doesn't seem to be a problem with GTA, just torture.

Hey, not saying it's right, just saying that there are bigger things than Nintendo with a longer, stronger, and more authoritarian reach that's excluding folks.
 

Corpekata

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
20,280
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ShockingAlberto's post from a few pages back:



This goes beyond reactions to Nintendo's poorly-worded response and into made-up scenario territory.

It's also a third hand report that we have no idea is accurate and might be totally bullshit. It isn't like this game is running on the nightly news. If what he said was accurate we would have seen it on the internet by now.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Hehe. That was a damn fine response. Reactionary, but damn fine.
True, murder doesn't seem to be a problem with GTA, just torture.

Hey, not saying it's right, just saying that there are bigger things than Nintendo with a longer, stronger, and more authoritarian reach that's excluding folks.

Right. Iwata isn't Hitler folks!
 
Mar 10, 2005
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It's also a third hand report that we have no idea is accurate and might be totally bullshit. It isn't like this game is running on the nightly news. If what he said was accurate we would have seen it on the internet by now.

For the record, I'm not vouching for it as absolute truth. That's what I was told and I very easily could have been exaggerated to.
 

Owlowiscious

Member
Jul 4, 2011
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510
If the game bombs because western audiences don't care about this type of game to begin with, then this discussion is moot. If the game fails because they have alienated people that would have otherwise bought the game, then the problem is Nintendo's and not on the shoulders of activists that care about an issue.
If the costs to make changes bring the total gross from success to failure and not enough people buy it with the changes then it's a failure because of the changes.
 

Corpekata

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
20,280
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For the record, I'm not vouching for it as absolute truth. That's what I was told and I very easily could have been exaggerated to.

Well yeah, I figured you weren't the one making it up, but that your friend might be, or might have misunderstood something. Something that extreme, it seems like it would be making the rounds by now especially given some of the other threads that hysterical fans have linked as "clickbait" that are incredibly mild.
 

InsaneZero

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Jul 25, 2008
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If the costs to make changes bring the total gross from success to failure and not enough people buy it with the changes then it's a failure because of the changes.

There's also the possibility that regardless of the cost of the project, the actual number of units sold was enough to convince Nintendo of the viability of the franchise in the West and work on a sequel with all these considerations in mind.
 

fernoca

Member
Sep 17, 2006
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Reading around my first post:
fernoca on April 27 said:
Great initiative. :)

While this won't do much in the current game, the more pressure they get the more they'll see there's actual interest.

To think this thread went from having 192 replies in the first 24 hours...
To 0 the next 24 hours...
To around 700 replies in the last 24 hours.

Hopefully things do get better, and the overall support towards LGBT issues in general doesn't stop just on this.
 

Owlowiscious

Member
Jul 4, 2011
6,435
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510
I'd totally play a hyper exaggerated over the top Bonnie and Clyde game. Should be developed by Kamiya.
A game where a gay couple shoots at cops and is on the run and ultimately gunned down for being in a gay marriage.

Ooh reminds me I saw the Bonnie and Clyde car at a casino once. Was pretty cool.
 

Fattony12000

Member
Jan 17, 2012
2,228
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670
I played as a black female human during my first time through the Mass Effect series.

I am a white male human.

Am I a glove now?

#options
 

Rolodzeo

Member
Apr 28, 2013
1,415
3
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I played as a black female human during my first time through the Mass Effect series.

I am a white male human.

Am I a glove now?

#options

 

zigg

Member
Aug 3, 2006
8,488
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www.zigg.com
The consensus among people that actually played the game seems to be it wouldn't quite work as you have little to no control over your miis actions, so putting the option in would actually make everyone bi rather than straight or gay. Some people like me would be totally fine with that, but it isn't exactly what this cause is going for.
So here's my question on this:

We saw in the ND that when Bill brought his Mii in, he got to mess with a bunch of sliders that dictated his voice, etc. Is that done for every Mii brought into the game? If so, it seems like that'd be the perfect place for a "likes boys/likes girls" slider.

(FTR, being a senior software developer, I don't think that the apparent complexity of this game lends it to being a likely thing to happen for this release, but it could happen in a Tomodachi+ or 1.5, cf. the original Animal Crossing or Wii Fit Plus—that's either a sizable free patch or a paid sequel. Just thinking of how it could work.)
 

Rrang129

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Jan 7, 2009
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I appreciate the movement, and getting Nintendo aware of the sentiments about this, but at the same time, I find it hard to get upset about it.

Nintendo obviously did not do any favors to themselves with their explanation of why it isn't included; simply saying they understand where people are coming from and will pass this onto the dev team was really all that needed to be said. Maybe I did drink the Nintendo Kool-Aid, but I don't see Tomodachi Life as attempting to say anything about marriage - now, if "The Sims" or other such "life simulator" that is came out in 2014 chose to ignore gay marriage, then I would feel different.

I guess the fact that you don't control who you choose to marry in the game is the biggest detractor. For the OP, if the game did allow gay marriage, but instead chose another man over your fiance to marry, would you take issue then? I'm sure there will be straight people who get chosen to marry someone they would have no interest in marrying at all in real life too.

All that said, it is unfortunate that they didn't find some way to include it, given the countries they are selling it in. All we can do is hope that Nintendo listens, and in the meantime try to enjoy the game for what it is.
 

Taker666

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Apr 26, 2005
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So here's my question on this:

We saw in the ND that when Bill brought his Mii in, he got to mess with a bunch of sliders that dictated his voice, etc. Is that done for every Mii brought into the game? If so, it seems like that'd be the perfect place for a "likes boys/likes girls" slider.

(FTR, being a senior software developer, I don't think that the apparent complexity of this game lends it to being a likely thing to happen for this release, but it could happen in a Tomodachi+ or 1.5, cf. the original Animal Crossing or Wii Fit Plus—that's either a sizable free patch or a paid sequel. Just thinking of how it could work.)

Yeah...but that's not ideal...

..many young girls would say they like girls because boys smell...and most young boys would say they like boys because girls have cooties.

The safest bet for Nintendo is release two versions. This version and something like a "Diversity Edition" which allows all types of pairings and has extra options.

That way parents can choose which version they would want their child to play and neither the LGBT community or those against gay marriage would really be able to complain.
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
42,665
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The safest bet for Nintendo is release two versions. This version and something like a "Diversity Edition" which allows all types of pairings and has extra options.

That way parents can choose which version they would want their child to play and neither the LGBT community or those against gay marriage would really be able to complain.

As a philosophical hypothetical (I know it'd be a bad idea for business reasons, but purely economically): Should the Diversity Edition cost more to reflect the extra development resources that that edition alone required?
 

Saint Gregory

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Jan 4, 2006
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Yeah...but that's not ideal...

..many young girls would say they like girls because boys smell...and most young boys would say they like boys because girls have cooties.

The safest bet for Nintendo is release two versions. This version and something like a "Diversity Edition" which allows all types of pairings and has extra options.

That way parents can choose which version they would want their child to play and neither the LGBT community or those against gay marriage would really be able to complain.
So something like Pokemon Straight and Pokemon LGBT?

Sounds like a bad idea. People may see that as segregationist and some conservative chain stores would probably refuse to carry the LGBT version.