Millionaire tries to get $829 via kickstarter to send daughter to RPG maker camp?

Spacebar

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I feel like everyone lurking this thread including myself is waiting for that bit of info that will finally bring this woman down.

Sadly, I don't think anything is going to change. We can keep pressing all we want, but in the end the internet will move on to the next story.
 

voodoopanda

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Despite the title of the project the funding is purely to pay for an education. The camp is there to teach her how to use the basics of RPG Maker better and the outcome will be the game. The argument people have had here, such as the one mod that doesn't see this as the same as paying for someone's long-term college tuition, is that it's just a week-long camp. Regardless, tuition doesn't necessarily mean a college course, despite it commonly used in that way, and tuition really just means paying for an education. This camp requires payment for the education. That's a tuition, albeit on a smaller scale.
I thought just like you did when I first saw the guideline about not paying for tuition, but it seems like paying for tuition is okay to Kickstarter if it is in direct service of making the project. It's listed as against the guidelines along with buying a camera, which seems to imply that the purpose of a Kickstarter can't be just tuition or just a camera, with no kind of attached project. If one is making a movie, but needs a camera, then it's okay to use the money to buy a camera, and many kickstarters have done this. There's another, very similar Kickstarter, which involves a child going to a camp to learn about animation to make a claymation project, and that project hasn't been taken down either. So it seems like in Kickstarters opinion, paying for something like that, as long as it is in service to making the project, isn't against the guidelines. Technically, this project is about making a game, so technically using funds to go to camp to make the game isn't against policy or terms of service.

Secondly, I personally am bothered about the mother using this as a leverage to push her "Keep Up!" campaign because I honestly see this as being half about that within the Kickstarter project. In absolutely no way am I against educating women and getting them into more science and technology fields. I've even recently looked into how to start volunteering to teach programming to underprivileged kids locally and would urge a more equal amount of both genders. Regardless to that I still don't agree with this campaign as being a secondary goal of this Kickstarter campaign and in the terms of service they also don't allow "awareness campaigns."
I wouldn't be surprised if Kickstarter feels simliarly about this as it does the camera/tuition thing. That is, a Kickstarter can't be used just as a vehicle for raising awareness, but if it does it as a side effect of the project, then it's okay.

Like I said before, there's lots of questionable things about this campaign, but it seems if you go by the technical Kickstarter guidelines, it passes. Even if you personally feel like the project isn't really about the RPG Maker game, the fact it exists as the creative project means it matches up with the policies & terms. If it didn't include that bit about making a game, it absolutely would be against the rules. It might feel like a weird technicality, but the fact the whole thing is for the creation of a game seems to be enough for Kickstarter, even if things like the tuition or the awareness campaign seems more important to the project. Based on the responses from Kickstarter, it seems like they feel that the question of whether or not the project is worthy of money is left up entirely to the backers at this point.
 

Wibblewozzer

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She made $100M doing it; I would be pretty excited about it too.
People really should read more if they care that much.

She was a cofounder of a company with a different web address that Kinko's bought and turned into kinkos.com. It's not that she simply owned kinkos.com and they came up and offered $100m for the domain. They bought her company that had 200 employees and converted it for their use.

And she's stated that she didn't come out of it with seven figures after the deal as the money went to the venture capitalists that funded things and some other stuff. I'm not looking up all the details now as I don't find them all that important but they're out there and help clarify some things. Suffice it to say, she didn't cash out with $100m by herself.

Edit:
I thought just like you did when I first saw the guideline about not paying for tuition, but it seems like paying for tuition is okay to Kickstarter if it is in direct service of making the project. It's listed as against the guidelines along with buying a camera, which seems to imply that the purpose of a Kickstarter can't be just tuition or just a camera, with no kind of attached project. If one is making a movie, but needs a camera, then it's okay to use the money to buy a camera, and many kickstarters have done this. There's another, very similar Kickstarter, which involves a child going to a camp to learn about animation to make a claymation project, and that project hasn't been taken down either. So it seems like in Kickstarters opinion, paying for something like that, as long as it is in service to making the project, isn't against the guidelines. Technically, this project is about making a game, so technically using funds to go to camp to make the game isn't against policy or terms of service.
The key difference here is that those other ones that likely have used funds for educating to assist in a project or for gear (like a camera) for a project hopefully have a complete project in mind and just need the means to achieve it. The game in this project has almost zero details altogether other than it's a game, it won't have violence, and it won't have bad language. Compare that to someone needing a camera with a detailed plan of how they're going to photograph all the graffiti in their town and have a clear goal in mind of a specific project. That's different to someone with a kickstarter that's "I need $2,000 for a camera so I can take pictures" and then giving out prints off those pictures, whatever they may end up being, as a reward.

The game is nearly a stray thought. Obviously there will be a game as an outcome from the camp but the game has zero focus and isn't a real project. Consider if Kickstarter would have approved this project if you cut out ALL details other than those pertaining to the game.

Anyhow, I don't think I'm changing any minds and I know there's some here that agree with me and some that don't see it the same way.
 

Mr_Elysia

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i didn't realize at first that the top of those comments are from the boys. that's creepy as shit.
How about the web of funding on all the projects? Those dastardly video game playing sons contributed to the campaign to get those dastardly video game playing sons to stop playing video games. Here and here. As well as to Susan's questionable phone case wallet to the point that most contributions to the campaigns come from within the family as seeding.

Bonus dastardly video game playing misogynist
 

Megalosaro

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I posted a comment in the Kotaku article pointing how the Wilsons have tried exploiting crowdfunding before. What I got in return was "those aren't scams."

So I guess the Kotaku crowd just wants to believe Susan's lies.
 

funkystudent

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Putting all the people questioning her and Kickstarters handing of this mess under the "sexist internet trolls" banner was a really amazing strategic move.

If kickstarter pull it now she can say they bowed to the sexists.

This women should get into political PR or something.
 

LordCanti

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Putting all the people questioning her and Kickstarters handing of this mess under the "sexist internet trolls" banner was a really amazing strategic move.

If kickstarter pull it now she can say they bowed to the sexists.

This women should get into political PR or something.
If I were her, I'd be hard at work on an RPG maker game that I could say my kid made at camp. I'd also be preparing the "The internet was mean to her, but look what she made!" website.
 

ColonelColon

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Putting all the people questioning her and Kickstarters handing of this mess under the "sexist internet trolls" banner was a really amazing strategic move.

If kickstarter pull it now she can say they bowed to the sexists.

This women should get into political PR or something.
The misogynist card is pretty common in internet arguments about gender politics.
 

voodoopanda

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The key difference here is that those other ones that likely have used funds for educating to assist in a project or for gear (like a camera) for a project hopefully have a complete project in mind and just need the means to achieve it. The game in this project has almost zero details altogether other than it's a game, it won't have violence, and it won't have bad language. Compare that to someone needing a camera with a detailed plan of how they're going to photograph all the graffiti in their town and have a clear goal in mind of a specific project. That's different to someone with a kickstarter that's "I need $2,000 for a camera so I can take pictures" and then giving out prints off those pictures, whatever they may end up being, as a reward.

The game is nearly a stray thought. Obviously there will be a game as an outcome from the camp but the game has zero focus and isn't a real project. Consider if Kickstarter would have approved this project if you cut out ALL details other than those pertaining to the game.

Anyhow, I don't think I'm changing any minds and I know there's some here that agree with me and some that don't see it the same way.
I feel like the problem is that Kickstarter in general has some pretty flimsy guidelines, so a project like this can slip through while technically being fine. I agree that where you're coming from seems right, that you should be right, just that Kickstarter policy isn't that strict. I think maybe a push towards improving Kickstarters guidelines might be a good step?

There have been several Kickstarters that haven't had a good deal of description that have gotten through and even been successful. Here's just a random example, since we were discussing photography: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1281421769/wet-plate-photography-studio-portrait-series The description of what he actually is going to do a single, general sentence, and the whole Kickstarter is a few paragraphs with no examples of his own work. His rewards are even exactly as you described in your example. There's also projects like this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1847988691/tiger-now-or-tiger-never which directly reference an awareness campaign in their main description!

So to me, the issue is less that this project has broken rules so Kickstarter should take it down, but that Kickstarter doesn't currently have very good rules about keeping projects like this out. This is all based on how Kickstarter has behaved up to this point in terms of previous projects and on the existing text of their guidelines.

Edit: There's also the issue that most Kickstarters you hear about are big ones that get publicity for one reason or another. There's many smaller Kickstarters that aren't nearly as well done as the biggies but nevertheless Kickstarter allows because they technically meet the base requirements of their stated guidelines. Their policy seems to mostly rely on the backers to decide if a project is worth it or not, after meeting those basic requirements.
 

JABEE

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The questions being asked have been poisoned by the Men's Rights Advocates. Really sad it's an excuse not to look further.
 

Shinta

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Thank goodness for screen shots.

Holy shit. Man, this just keeps getting crazier. Unbelievable.

She has been impersonating her daughter for at least two years online. The brothers have been "mean" to her online for at least two years.

Basically, she just lied to Kickstarter, Kotaku, CNET, Huffington Post, CBS and on. Straight up lied.
 

zeopower6

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I seriously cannot believe people are falling hook, line, and sinker for this scheme. The evidence is pretty damning if you look at her previous projects and her quick deletion of comments that had her pretending to be her kids...

Has reporting the project not helped at all?

I have to say though, she hit a perfect combo of issues to lure backers in and also make anyone who remotely opposes the project's success look like the "enemy".
 

Dictator93

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Putting all the people questioning her and Kickstarters handing of this mess under the "sexist internet trolls" banner was a really amazing strategic move.

If kickstarter pull it now she can say they bowed to the sexists.

This women should get into political PR or something.
Or there just positions which are always defensible if you ignor content and just defensively deride your opponent.

Good luck criticizing israeli foreign policy (I have been called an anti-semite and holocaust denier before jsut because I made negative comments about the israel palestine deal).
 

Midou

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I seriously cannot believe people are falling hook, line, and sinker for this scheme. The evidence is pretty damning if you look at her previous projects and her quick deletion of comments that had her pretending to be her kids...

Has reporting the project not helped at all?
Nope, seems KS is pretty hell bent on keeping it up. I have enough faith in humanity to believe anyone who has seen all the evidence would want nothing to do with the project but it seems most people on the defensive about it completely ignore factual evidence that she is running a scam.
 

JDSN

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At this point im actually entertaining the possibility that the Illuminati exist and that this woman belongs to the high counsil or some shit like that. There is not way the gaming media reaction to this has been so unanimously approved in such a casual and callous manner. Im actually impressed and appreciative of the way this has turned out.
 

LordCanti

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I seriously cannot believe people are falling hook, line, and sinker for this scheme. The evidence is pretty damning if you look at her previous projects and her quick deletion of comments that had her pretending to be her kids...

Has reporting the project not helped at all?

I have to say though, she hit a perfect combo of issues to lure backers in and also make anyone who remotely opposes the project's success look like the "enemy".
Kickstarter has stated that the project follows their terms of service and won't be canceled.
 

zeopower6

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Here's hoping that KS changes their mind soon then.

Hasn't she said that the goal of the project is now pretty much changed into something that is TBA? Shouldn't that be enough reason to stop it since she's paying for the camp herself out of pocket?
 

LordCanti

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i wanted to believe that people exaggerated gaming journalism complaints, but this is just too much. this article is basically a blind, defensive reaction to the gaming community being outraged over something.
Read the authors comment in the comments section if you really want to go down the rabbit hole.
 

Shinta

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Here's hoping that KS changes their mind soon, then...

Hasn't she said that the goal of the project is now pretty much changed into something that is TBA? Shouldn't that be enough reason to stop it since she's paying for the camp herself out of pocket?
She actually said in a tweet that she thought she'd spend the rest on paying for tuition for more girls to go to RPG camp, but that it's against the KS terms of service to pay for tuition or charity.

She actually said that.

Her KS was about paying for her daughter to go to RPG camp.

= Mind Blown

It's the 2nd comment of hers on this page.

 

Midou

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I love how the same tactic Susan used, her '9 year old daughter' is the same one all the journalists use to demonize those suspicious of the project. 'Internet attacks 9 year old girl'. Uh, no.

There are enough points against her that nothing she says or any justification would have me believe her story.
 

Kusagari

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Considering this is the Internet, and 4chan has been one of the places leading the charge, I'm actually amazed at how civil this whole thing has been.

The "attacks 9-year-old" crap is just an easy way to cast anyone complaining as the villains. Media 101.
 

LordCanti

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Don't expect much from a person employed by a company that used Kickstarter to scam money as well.

Circling the wagons.jpg
Unless I've missed something, I don't really think the PA kickstarter was a scam. It was a pretty straightforward "Here is our business model currently; here is what it could be if you'd prefer, if you're willing to pay for it" and people were...willing to pay for it. There was no scam involved. I never really looked at the particulars, so if I'm wrong, I digress.

I really think this person just didn't do more than two seconds of research.
 
Oct 9, 2005
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I now know what it feels like to be the scarecrow in that comic about hamburgers and pizza I can't find.

I'm starting to feel animosity towards these so called people writing these articles.
When a 9-year old girl asked people on the Internet for money, they wished she would die
Is the headline.

I'm just gonna go do something else for a while.
 

iammeiam

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Unless I've missed something, I don't really think the PA kickstarter was a scam. It was a pretty straightforward "Here is our business model currently; here is what it could be if you'd prefer, if you're willing to pay for it" and people were...willing to pay for it. There was no scam involved. I never really looked at the particulars, so if I'm wrong, I digress.

I really think this person just didn't do more than two seconds of research.
It looks like that entire section of PA Report--"The Cut"--is literally just blurbs pointing at articles from elsewhere. Like a "Best of the Rest" section, or something. So I don't think actual research is expected for that section, since it's straightforward meant to regurgitate things written elsewhere.

This is how their About page describes it:

The latest version of The Cut points out the best in game writing and timely stories about the industry, with our own commentary about why you need to read these stories and where we feel others may have led you astray.
 

Megalosaro

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"I don't care if it's truth of fiction. I don't want to have anything to do with a bunch of misogynistic men posting on a "Men's Rights" sub-reddit."

So yeah, nothing we ever will be able to say will touch most people because they think like that
 

NervousXtian

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Ore-Gone.. not Ory-Gone.
This woman is obviously batshit insane.

Tweeting at Marissa Mayer and Oprah like she's some kind of important.

I can't believe KS is allowing this to continue on, everything she's touched seem downright shady.
 

polyh3dron

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Oh my God so much misogyny going on here!

If this doesn't turn you off to people using Gurrl Power to their nefarious ends, I don't know what will. I take solace in the fact that this money won't be coming to Susan without a price; she'll be harassed by Internet dwellers for the foreseeable future.
 

BeUrself

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This whole thing just seems so wrong. Of course the media is going to come to her rescue. All they want is a good story.
 

Jenga

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Holy shit. Man, this just keeps getting crazier. Unbelievable.

She has been impersonating her daughter for at least two years online. The brothers have been "mean" to her online for at least two years.

Basically, she just lied to Kickstarter, Kotaku, CNET, Huffington Post, CBS and on. Straight up lied.
so many buffoons just sucked it all up and either supported or threw money at her

disgusting
 

Yagharek

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At this point I'm completely convinced that large segments of the gaming media exist solely to demonise their audience.
 

polyh3dron

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Now that we have seen this kind of thing play out on Kickstarter more than once, a questionable Kickstarter campaign run by a female who then frames any criticism of said Kickstarter campaign as sexism and any of her detractors as Misogynists, followed by increased support of the campaign because Feminism and stand up to the Misogynists, is it safe to say that this can be labeled as a Trope?
 

ThreePiMatt

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"I don't care if it's truth of fiction. I don't want to have anything to do with a bunch of misogynistic men posting on a "Men's Rights" sub-reddit."

So yeah, nothing we ever will be able to say will touch most people because they think like that
He posts here pretty regularly, he's generally a smart dude, but I think that comment is completely in the wrong. This whole situation just shows how weak a lot of games journalists are. This Kickstarter, this woman, her history, its all a silly fraud, but they're all so afraid of being associated with the negative stigma of sexist internet trolls that they willingly close their eyes and plug their ears.
 

Tylahedras

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God dammit she's back to almost 22k. GHAHASKJFAFJKAJHFKLJAHFSKAJLSHLKAJDHLKAJSHDKALJSH

WHY? WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY?