DynamiteCop!
Banned
I have no doubt that LCD will eventually kill OLED, it will match it in contrast and blacks while destroying it in every other regard.
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Mini-LED is here and it is absolutely incredible and worth considering
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
- Start date
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
If MicroLED can be made in a cost effective manner and live up to its potential, then I agree it absolutely should be the preferred display tech. But, it's not a given that will happen. Pixel density is an R&D headache right now. Getting the pixel density down to where it can accommodate enough pixels for a 4K display (especially 8K) at 55" inches has been in a word challenging. Do I think it will get there? Yes, eventually, but it aint gonna be tomorrow. It's also important to note that while sharing a similar name, MicroLED is in many ways different from current LED, so it's not a proven that it will be able to carry all the advantages of LED and negate the disadvantages. It should mind you.
As for killing OLED, I don't think that will happen as OLED still has plenty of things going for it. OLEDs pixel response time is the best of all display tech, an advantage that often gets ignored since it's not in gaming monitors. If they can get OLEDs size down it could make for a very competitive gaming monitor.
OLED tech continues to evolve and get better and many of the anti-burn in features go a long way to minimizing OLEDs biggest concern.
Another advantage is that cost of OLEDs continues to go down. By the time MicroLED makes its way into stores, it will definitely be priced in the premium price of around $2500 - $5000+ By that time OLEDs could potentially be had for well under $1000. OLED still has good life left.
GermanZepp
Member
edge-lit local dimming it's awful, not good at all. My Lg has it
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Hope it works out and can come in small sizes. Computer monitors really need a revolution and considering OLED burn-in, it won't come from that technology.
vpance
Member
I think there might be a few more options in the near future if LG has already hopped on to it as well.
Really curious what the specs are on these LG and Samsung sets. Didn’t realize Samsung would have a full lineup of Mini LED sets and not just for the highest end. And now LG too. If they can get over 1000 zones for a 65” and 2000 nits things might get interesting again in TV land.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Wow. Nice to see my thread get resurrected. Whats sad is that MicroLED's situation doesn't seem like it's improved and is still a long ways off. Very little I have heard about the tech this past year.
MiniLED could be a nice stop gap, but it's hard to imagine it being preferred over OLED since the price of MiniLED is going to be more expensive the OLED.
MiniLED could be a nice stop gap, but it's hard to imagine it being preferred over OLED since the price of MiniLED is going to be more expensive the OLED.
Genx3
Member
Yea but Mini LED is an in between until Micro LED can become affordable after it finally releases.
Micro LED sounds like it going to be pretty expensive tech.
Genx3
Member
Once Micro LED hits the mainstream but you're talking probably in another 6 - 8 years.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It's the worst.
Zog
Banned
You'll have a permanent dark spot, obviously.
vpance
Member
For now perhaps but it’s still a great alternative for people wanting traditionally higher end or better than FALD performance on a wider range of sets.
Thought it’s not clear if LG is going to position it higher in price than their OLED lineup. They might be using IPS panels and keep it in the mid range. They don’t want to upset their OLED dominance. Check out the vid.
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Manstructiclops
Banned
OLED panel yields probably means we won't get reasonably priced monitors any time soon.
So hopefully something like this can help pick up the slack in the meantime because monitor tech is stuck in the dark ages currently.
So hopefully something like this can help pick up the slack in the meantime because monitor tech is stuck in the dark ages currently.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Don't watch movies on my TV and hardly ever play HDR content so I couldn't justify the expense of OLED.
I was surprised that they still cost so much.
I was surprised that they still cost so much.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Kuranghi
Member
So we only know how many zones are in the 86" 8K set - 2500 - is there any part in the official press releases where they actually say they are all independently controlled though?
How many would you guys estimate for the 4K flagship? In 55, 65 and 75, the sizes most people will be buying.
I reckon 480-~1250 across those sizes, maybe around 1500 if there is an 86" 4K set and only breaking 1500 when you go to the 8K sets. They can't price them higher than the OLEDs surely so I wouldn't be surprised if a count of 2500 zones is really just for the 8K and/or 86" models. It could be a sharp drop off in zone count once you go down to 4K models, since Samsung gubbed their 4K flagship in 2020, LG has no reason to try and make their 4K LCDs any better than that.
I'm so excited to see what Sony have planned, I want to see something really new and exciting, they had great leaps in image processing and BFI in 2018 and 2019 but there hasn't been a properly amazing dimming quality advancement since 2017 imo.
How many would you guys estimate for the 4K flagship? In 55, 65 and 75, the sizes most people will be buying.
I reckon 480-~1250 across those sizes, maybe around 1500 if there is an 86" 4K set and only breaking 1500 when you go to the 8K sets. They can't price them higher than the OLEDs surely so I wouldn't be surprised if a count of 2500 zones is really just for the 8K and/or 86" models. It could be a sharp drop off in zone count once you go down to 4K models, since Samsung gubbed their 4K flagship in 2020, LG has no reason to try and make their 4K LCDs any better than that.
I'm so excited to see what Sony have planned, I want to see something really new and exciting, they had great leaps in image processing and BFI in 2018 and 2019 but there hasn't been a properly amazing dimming quality advancement since 2017 imo.
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vpance
Member
I would guess around 1000 in the 65. Can't see them performing worse than existing FALDs from Samsung. I hope they keep prices competitive.
Kuranghi
Member
I'm unclear as to whether you need more "mini-LEDs" to give the same brightness/coverage as a "normal" backlight LED.
Like for instance, if it were to compete with Samsungs 2019 Q90R, in terms of zone count, that would mean 240, 320 and 480 zones in 55, 65 and 75 respectively. I wonder if you'd need double or even quadruple the numbers of "miniLEDs" to equal the same dimming performance. 4x would kind of line up with the figures we are estimating, so ~960, ~1280 and ~1820 in the 55, 65 and 75" 4K flagship respectively.
JohnnyFootball
The Sony announcement is on the 7th of January btw, I can post the video here if its miniLED related if you like? I'd assume it is since LG and Samsung have "announced" their sets.
Kuranghi
Member
I've spoken to a guy who was there for the unveiling of the 16K CLEDIS micro-LED display (in a museum in japan I think it was?), it was running an in-engine demo of Gran Turismo and he said the depth of the image was just unbelieveable, like falling into the picture because you think its a window level of amazing.
Super excited for that too mate.
Kuranghi
Member
To Live and Die in L.A. on a 16K display ftw.
MadPanda
Banned
LG already said this is inferior to oled and its going to be between nanocell and oled TVs. Why would LG, or anyone else, position the inferior technology above the superior one?
This thread is full of misconceptions and misinformation unfortunately.
01011001
Banned
pretty sure Samsung will switch to OLED this year, or so I heard.
they want to basically switch all over to OLED screens with Quantum Dot layers to enhance color accuracy and brightness.
and after OLED they plan to switch to a 100% Quantum Dot based screen (QDEL)
vpance
Member
I'm unclear as to whether you need more "mini-LEDs" to give the same brightness/coverage as a "normal" backlight LED.
Like for instance, if it were to compete with Samsungs 2019 Q90R, in terms of zone count, that would mean 240, 320 and 480 zones in 55, 65 and 75 respectively. I wonder if you'd need double or even quadruple the numbers of "miniLEDs" to equal the same dimming performance. 4x would kind of line up with the figures we are estimating, so ~960, ~1280 and ~1820 in the 55, 65 and 75" 4K flagship respectively.
Not sure. Haven't read up on it enough to know what we'd be likely to see out of these sets.
I just assume there is something more cost effective about it compared to FALD that they are bring it out now.
LG isn't, others like Samsung will. Like I was saying to another poster, check the vid.
Kuranghi
Member
No one here is an expert, we're just enthusiasts, if you think you know more then just say it. In this example you've could've just wrote why thats very unlikely, for people that don't know why that would be. You can't learn without making mistakes.
Rikkori
Member
I would be excited for Sony miniLED, as they're the only ones with a decent algorithm.
LG LCD? Absolute garbage, not even better than no-name chinese knock off TVs, but still priced high.
Samsung? Overpriced mediocrities, but at least for movies they do well.
Don't live in the US so no TCL (the other CN brands are bad), which is at least priced fairly for the quality.
As for oled, meh. Too dim, burn-in is real, price skyrockets as you go up in size etc. If Star Citizen gets released this decade, maybe then I can make an argument for buying one.
Just waiting for that $2000 miniLED 85" which doesn't suck for gaming.
Can't say I'm in a rush, which is good, because I'd be even more disappointed otherwise.
www.displaysupplychain.com
LG LCD? Absolute garbage, not even better than no-name chinese knock off TVs, but still priced high.
Samsung? Overpriced mediocrities, but at least for movies they do well.
Don't live in the US so no TCL (the other CN brands are bad), which is at least priced fairly for the quality.
As for oled, meh. Too dim, burn-in is real, price skyrockets as you go up in size etc. If Star Citizen gets released this decade, maybe then I can make an argument for buying one.
Just waiting for that $2000 miniLED 85" which doesn't suck for gaming.
Can't say I'm in a rush, which is good, because I'd be even more disappointed otherwise.
DSCC TV Cost Report Brings Comparison of OLED vs. MiniLED - Display Supply Chain Consultants
www.displaysupplychain.com
Imtjnotu
Member
Sammy won't go oled I don't think. They are the forefront of micro led and are pushing hard for that. They will be the one company that skips it
01011001
Banned
prett sure I saw a news article about Samsung switching first to QD-OLED in 2021 and then in the future (most likel 2025/26) to QDEL
MadPanda
Banned
Of course Samsung will as currently they're making only LCDs and Mini led is still an lcd technology but much better.
I'm not an expert, I'm an enthusiast too. I didn't quote previous posts as they were more than a month old so didn't want to go back to that.
I've lalready explained why LG won't position mini led tvs above oled.
Sorry if I was rude, I should've phrased it differently. My mistake.
Samsung displays is already making oled displays, namely qd oled which are somewhat different to LG's WOLED but for the common folk they're the same. Samsung electronics, company which makes actual TVs we buy in stores, is resistant to oleds as they've run aggressive anti oled campaigns in the past so they can't back off easily. So for this year Samsung display's qd oleds will be in Sony and other manufacturers TV sets.
Samsung display company and LG display company run independently from Samsung electronics and LG electronics respectively.
And on top of that Samsung and LG are arch rivals in Korea.
As I've written above, we're probably not going to see Samsung oled tvs this year but maybe next year due to aforementioned reasons.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Asians really now how to make TV's. Fascinating stuff.
The Hamburglar
Banned
I’ve got a ks8000 which I’m perfectly happy with.
this gen launch has shown that current tvs with all the latest tech hdmi 2.1 vrr and 120hz just quite isn’t ready yet. I’m waiting until it matures to buy.
is/will micro led be better than Oled?
this gen launch has shown that current tvs with all the latest tech hdmi 2.1 vrr and 120hz just quite isn’t ready yet. I’m waiting until it matures to buy.
is/will micro led be better than Oled?
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Yes but it's going to take a long time before it's cheap enough to bring to consumers.
Samsung actually already has one but it costs like 100k.
JeloSWE
Member
It's already technically possible if they wanted to. It's just that flashing the backlight at lower rates that 90hz creates a lot of flicker, like the CRT does, and it's training on the eyes so not the best for most consumers. This sacrifices motion clarity for a calmer image. Response time is also kinda possible, if they wanted to, monitors can do it, there is no limit for TV to not do it. It's just what the manufacturers think the market want sadly. Movie experience has been the driving force for TVs but that will hopefully keep improving as many like to game on large TV.
Imtjnotu
Member
I'll look. Last I saw was them finally coming to mini LED and
Wait when did sony switch from using lg displays to Samsung?
This year or in 2020? Last I read LG was supplying the panels for Sony
vpance
Member
Ideally it can be, bar the worst situations for local dimming type displays (star fields). But we’re probably still talking about the higher end MiniLED with 30k LEDs or more, so price could be very high to start with.
But it depends what your TV usage is like. High end FALD already competes quite well, and excellently if you have a lot of usage in daytime or just like to keep the lights on.
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MadPanda
Banned
I haven't said that Sony has switched from LG to Samsung oled displays. It's expected that Sony will have tvs with Samsung oled displays, but until they officially confirm it it's still just a speculation. Besides that, they can make oled TVs with both oled displays. We still have to see Samsung oled displays in action. Personally, I'd avoid any technology in its infancy. Wait a few years and then buy it.
Sony
Nintendo
My biggest gripe with OLED is the screen retention/burn-in. I refure to pay upwards of 1500 Euro for a TV that has a decent change of burn-in within 3-5 years. So if these types of techniques help to improve local dimming technologies to achieve higher constrast ratios and better HDR, I'm all for it.
MadPanda
Banned
You're mistaking microled to miniled, while they're vastly different technologies.
MiniLED is like a standard LCD TV but much denser with better contrast and less artefacts.
MicroLED is a self-emmisive display just like oled but with inorganic materials so it shouldn't be prone to burn in.
It should be, as its picture quality is like oled's as it's self emmisive but it uses inorganic materials so it should be able to achieve higher brightness and shouldn't be prone to burn in. But the wait is going to be long for affordable prices at 55-65 inches.
It's a really interesting technology that could become the best compromise between the advantages of OLED and QLED until Microled technology is available for everyone.
Personally I've decided to avoid OLED technology (currently I have a 55Q95T) because of the burn in ( I got it on two high end smartphones within a year and it is not pretty), also knowing that I have some bad habits like leaving the console and TV on while I'm away to eat, or make a phone call or doing other stuff.
Also OLED TVs give their best in a totally dark room because peak brightness is low while I always play games with the lights on, I only watch movies in the dark.
With Mini LEDs backlight zones become in the order of thousands and at that point I think it will be hard to notice halos or other backlighting artifacts typical of FALD TVs with a low number of control zones.
Personally I've decided to avoid OLED technology (currently I have a 55Q95T) because of the burn in ( I got it on two high end smartphones within a year and it is not pretty), also knowing that I have some bad habits like leaving the console and TV on while I'm away to eat, or make a phone call or doing other stuff.
Also OLED TVs give their best in a totally dark room because peak brightness is low while I always play games with the lights on, I only watch movies in the dark.
With Mini LEDs backlight zones become in the order of thousands and at that point I think it will be hard to notice halos or other backlighting artifacts typical of FALD TVs with a low number of control zones.
Genx3
Member
TCL already makes the 2019 8 series with it but I'm waiting for a more reliable TV OEM to make one.