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Missouri collegiate Football team starts strike over racism at school

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excelsiorlef

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With no context, I said

Take a breath

I'm saying with or without context it means nothing.

Now if that screenshot from earlier that is essentially calling people that don't come cowards, that changes things a good bit.


Not really, he's either a tone deaf jerk, or a tone deaf super jerk.

I mean that's basically the difference between the two e-mails. One is aggressive and the other is passive aggressive, I mean come on "You make your own choice" is what parents say to children when they want to guilt them into "making the right decision" aka doing what the parents want. Or what a teacher says to a student who is asking for permission to miss class due to illness in order to guilt trip said student to coming to class. It's straight up passive-aggressive condescending speech.
 

Jonm1010

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Feb 13, 2005
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I'm saying with or without context it means nothing.




Not really, he's either a tone deaf jerk, or a tone deaf super jerk.

I mean that's basically the difference between the two e-mails. One is aggressive the other is passive aggressive, I mean come on "You make your own choice" is what parents say to children when they want to guilt them into "making the right decision" aka doing what the parents want. Or what a teacher says to a student who is asking for permission to miss class due to illness in order to guilt trip said student to coming to class. It's straight up passive-aggressive condescending speech.

The guy stated his argument, a flawed one, and then said he is standing by the underlying principles of his argument and leading by example by holding class and thinks his students should attend.

As both of us have mentioned his reasoning ignores some critical context and circumstance but I don't find it intentionally demeaning or aggressive. Or that he is intentionally trying to be a jerk.

He provided further context to the Post saying a make up exam will be provided and that the university had not substantiated any of the threats and no classes had been cancelled.

I think the teacher showed some ignorance, misguidedness, stubbornness, and arrogance but I am not sure I can say convincingly to myself that he was more then that unless that other message is true.
 

excelsiorlef

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The guy stated his argument, a flawed one, and then said he is standing by the underlying principles of his argument and leading by example by holding class and thinks his students should attend.

As both of us have mentioned his reasoning ignores some critical context and circumstance but I don't find it intentionally demeaning or aggressive. Or that he is intentionally trying to be a jerk.

He provided further context to the Post saying a make up exam will be provided and that the university had not substantiated any of the threats and no classes had been cancelled.

This argument is getting so pedantic and repetitive so I'll just say this.

Intent isn't magic.

That you think he wasn't intentionally demeaning, doesn't mean he wasn't demeaning in the end.

Also I don't see how this guy should get points for sticking to his "principles" just because they're his principles. Again he wasn't even theoretically ever a target of any of the threats. "I'm standing up" and so should you is meaningless when the person standing up has zero skin in the game.

Also he didn't really stick to them did he? He tried to quit.
 

Jonm1010

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This argument is getting so pedantic and repetitive so I'll just say this.

Intent isn't magic.

That you think he wasn't intentionally demeaning, doesn't mean he wasn't demeaning in the end.

Also I don't see how this guy should get points for sticking to his "principles" just because they're his principles. Again he wasn't even theoretically ever a target of any of the threats. "I'm standing up" and so should you is meaningless when the person standing up has zero skin in the game.

Also he didn't really stick to them did he? He tried to quit.

I mean the only reason this argument exists is because you made it an argument.

I posted a timeline as I understood it so I could get hopefully some context, confirmation and additional insight and you used that as a springboard to push your judgement of the professor onto me and challenge me.

This is a discussion brought on solely by you.

There is a critical element you leave out. He can be interpreted as demeaning to those reading it but is he actually intentionally being demeaning is another question entirely. You seem to want to conflate the two separate issues at hand. The former I am not questioning, the latter I am.

My point with bringing the contested message into this is because if it is true then clearly he is intentionally being demeaning to those that don't see it his way. If that message was shopped or is false, well, then all we have to go on currently is the Washington Post quotes and from that I don't think you can convincingly prove that his intent was to demean.
 

excelsiorlef

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I mean the only reason this argument exists is because you made it an argument.

I posted a timeline as I understood it so I could get hopefully some context, confirmation and additional insight and you used that as a springboard to push your judgement of the professor onto me and challenge me.

This is a discussion brought on solely by you.

There is a critical element you leave out. He can be interpreted as demeaning to those reading it but is he actually intentionally being demeaning is another question entirely. You seem to want to conflate the two separate issues at hand. The former I am not questioning, the latter I am.

My point with bringing the contested message into this is because if it is true then clearly he is intentionally being demeaning to those that don't see it his way. If that message was shopped or is false, well, then all we have to go on currently is the Washington Post quotes and from that I don't think you can convincingly prove that his intent was to demean.

No I I'm not conflating anything. I just don't care if he intended to be demeaning or not.
 

bishoptl

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Jun 6, 2004
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"The media" isn't a hivemind and even if every word you wrote was true it's still not in any stretch of the imagination acceptable to assault someone, particularly a member of the press in the act of doing his job.
Who was assaulted? If that's what you call that reporter being blocked, I have some videos of assaults that will blow your mind.
 

Jonm1010

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No I I'm not conflating anything. I just don't care if he intended to be demeaning or not.

Well then thats odd, as a persons intent and purpose - along with proper context - is a critical part of how we properly and accurately judge and condemn(or not condemn) them.

But anyways, this has served of no value to what i was trying to find out so I'm moving on.
 

orthodoxy1095

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The Blaze is Glenn Beck's site. It might be true or partially true, or completely false, but that site is going to have a hella skewed perspective no matter what.
If you look at the sources they're drawing from, they do seem to be fairly legitimate Tweets at least. The tweets cited are indeed being drawn from our local TV reporters as far as I can tell. Haven't seen anything else about it really.

Now as for what you think of what's happening, that's up to you.

Somehow I missed that a second Missouri student was apprehended for threats. Not sure what he was saying: http://www.komu.com/news/second-student-apprehended-for-threats-on-social-media/
 

Van Owen

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Aug 2, 2009
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Sorry, just thought separating people by race seemed a bit counter productive for this kind of issue. Carry on.
 

excelsiorlef

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If you look at the sources they're drawing from, they do seem to be fairly legitimate Tweets at least. The tweets cited are indeed being drawn from our local TV reporters as far as I can tell. Haven't seen anything else about it really.

Now as for what you think of what's happening, that's up to you.

Somehow I missed that a second Missouri student was apprehended for threats. Not sure what he was saying: http://www.komu.com/news/second-student-apprehended-for-threats-on-social-media/

That's why they call it dog whistling.

It is a thing but it's not controversial thing. They just present as such.
 
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Sorry, just thought separating people by race seemed a bit counter productive for this kind of issue. Carry on.

The "is this real" is funny because one would assume that you have the same access to internet as the rest of us, seeing as how you're posting and all.

Just be honest
 

BriGuy

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Sorry, just thought separating people by race seemed a bit counter productive for this kind of issue. Carry on.
It is, assuming that's actually happening. But who the hell knows at this point. One tweet probably isn't indicative of the movement even if it is genuine.
 

orthodoxy1095

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Mark Schierbecker, the videographer who was in the media kerfuffle, apparently filed a report with the police department. Supposedly the charges might be third degree assault and attempted false imprisonment. I'm not sure how the assault part would go down, but I think he'd easily win the false imprisonment charge if that's what they go with.

Interesting that Basler was placed on leave but Click wasn't. Guess it's harder to put an active professor on leave.
 

mre

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Mark Schierbecker, the videographer who was in the media kerfuffle, apparently filed a report with the police department. Supposedly the charges might be third degree assault and attempted false imprisonment. I'm not sure how the assault part would go down, but I think he'd easily win the false imprisonment charge if that's what they go with.
565.070. 1. A person commits the crime of assault in the third degree if:

(1) The person attempts to cause or recklessly causes physical injury to another person; or

(2) With criminal negligence the person causes physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon; or

(3) The person purposely places another person in apprehension of immediate physical injury; or

(4) The person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death or serious physical injury to another person; or

(5) The person knowingly causes physical contact with another person knowing the other person will regard the contact as offensive or provocative; or

(6) The person knowingly causes physical contact with an incapacitated person, as defined in section 475.010, which a reasonable person, who is not incapacitated, would consider offensive or provocative.
 

devilhawk

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Who was assaulted? If that's what you call that reporter being blocked, I have some videos of assaults that will blow your mind.
When Click put her hands on the person taking the video and pushed him - well that's the definition of assault.

And seems there are now charges likely being pressed.
 

Indicate

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Aug 17, 2013
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The racist comments on twitter is making me sad. I'm going to stay off the internet for awhile and get some studying done.
 

ISOM

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Sorry, just thought separating people by race seemed a bit counter productive for this kind of issue. Carry on.

I don't see it that way. Especially for those who are affected by the racism. Sometimes people just need space and that can include races of people especially when they are surrounded by the majority.
 
May 31, 2008
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Who was assaulted? If that's what you call that reporter being blocked, I have some videos of assaults that will blow your mind.

Nobody was assaulted, but treating the reporter like shit while simultaneously acting like the reporter is treating you like shit, and calling for "muscle" to remove him (arguably a threat of assault, which is not the same thing as assault), is pretty shitty. Doesn't demean the righteousness of their cause, but deserves to be called out all the same.
 
Nov 11, 2008
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You picked a doozy of a dogwhistle for that 11th and final ban. Toodles!
WHAT?! BAH!! Guess I'll post this one last time..

 

Cybit

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Jul 17, 2013
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Importantly he's a beloved professor, so I wonder if they want to see if he'll stay after he cools down.

Basically this. You don't accept a resignation because you don't want them to quit. Odds are Mizzou doesn't see what he said nearly as badly as outsiders have been. Even his students don't want him to quit. Hopefully he reconsiders and stays.

I don't see it that way. Especially for those who are affected by the racism. Sometimes people just need space and that can include races of people especially when they are surrounded by the majority.

It will depend. In my experiences in the Midwest (specifically Missouri & STL) it...didn't always end well - but each situation is different. It depends on their true motivations and their leadership.
 

Hellwarden

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This whole event just keeps getting weirder and weirder. Obviously it's sad, and needs to be taken seriously, but...

...I'm kind of expecting an evil mastermind to appear at the end of this.
 

GorillaJu

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Nobody was assaulted, but treating the reporter like shit while simultaneously acting like the reporter is treating you like shit, and calling for "muscle" to remove him (arguably a threat of assault, which is not the same thing as assault), is pretty shitty. Doesn't demean the righteousness of their cause, but deserves to be called out all the same.

Physically preventing reporters from and students from gathering relevant information doesn't seem like a very righteous cause to me.
 

GoldenEye 007

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If the tweets/pictures themselves are real, I don't see what's so wrong with the question. If you have people from other races, white included, that want to be there for support, I don't think asking them to leave is a the best course of action. Not by a longshot.
 

Infinite

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If the tweets/pictures themselves are real, I don't see what's so wrong with the question. If you have people from other races, white included, that want to be there for support, I don't think asking them to leave is a the best course of action. Not by a longshot.
Personally have no problem with it either way.
 

bishoptl

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Nobody was assaulted, but treating the reporter like shit while simultaneously acting like the reporter is treating you like shit, and calling for "muscle" to remove him (arguably a threat of assault, which is not the same thing as assault), is pretty shitty. Doesn't demean the righteousness of their cause, but deserves to be called out all the same.
Fair enough, I see your point and actually agree with you. For what it's worth, I don't feel that they did themselves any favours by not talking to the media, but the media has been pretty shitty in general when it comes to issues of this nature. If you can't trust them to tell your story - and the story ended up blowing up without them - I have no problem with how the students felt. If a reporter gets a pass to shove a mic in your face and ask questions, the public has a right to tell them to stick said mic and refuse to engage.

I'm more ticked about the disengenuous assholes who jump on this as an issue, while being completely silent about the larger issue of students' treatment up to this point. They aren't fooling anyone.
 

excelsiorlef

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If the tweets/pictures themselves are real, I don't see what's so wrong with the question. If you have people from other races, white included, that want to be there for support, I don't think asking them to leave is a the best course of action. Not by a longshot.


Oddly enough no ally at the rally has seemingly complained.

And they weren't asked to leave the rally either from what I gather. Just leave a space for those actually affected.
 

GorillaJu

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Personally I'd feel pretty shitty if I were there and someone told me to go home because being white means I'm not wanted. But being asked to leave is a hell of a lot better than unknowingly staying past your welcome, and having your presence unwanted in some places is just part of life. So it's whatever, I just think a "healing space" sounds silly and dramatic.
 

CouldBeWorse

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Oct 31, 2012
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The more I read about this, the more confused I get. It's a fascinating situation and while it's always a good thing to draw attention to the endemic and systemic racism that continues to persist in all levels of society, I can't help but feel that Wolfe was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Should he have responded more strongly? Sure. Was it worth being forced out and branding him for life? I don't think so.

And I don't know what changes at Missouri outside of a lot of empty promises and pandering from the administration. and what SHOULD be changed exactly? What can the administration do?

It's interesting that this story has been paired in the news cycle with scum like Greg Hardy. If there ever was any time for the public to use their voice to get someone fired, it should be Cowboys fans threatening to not attend the next home game until Hardy is released. Why can't we as fans use our power in the same way?

Anyway, the fascinating part of this story for me is the idea of a powerless group (the NCAA athlete) using the only card they have (not playing) to force change. I'm so curious to see if this escalates to other issues (player safety, concussions, pay to play, 3-year eligibility rule, etc) or if this was a one-and-done. I personally don't think this will be the last time.
 

GoldenEye 007

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Why can't black Americans, who are the only ones who know how it feels to be black in America, share their experiences in their own space without having to feel pressured or uncomfortable because of the presence of people who are not black?
Well there is empathy. I'm black myself. And if I had people that were white that were truly there to support me in things like this, I wouldn't want exclude them from the process in any capacity. I'd want other races there so they hear the issues on a deeper level and further understand why what is being done is being done and why the pain is there.

They are not excluding others from support. They are not forcing them out of the movement. They are not banning them from the protests. They are simply asking for a space for black people to share, decompress, be vulnerable & real with each other. I don't think that's too much to ask and it shouldn't force anyone to stop supporting the overall movement.
I understand that. That wasn't my implication. I was speaking from the issue of perception. Given the scrutiny here and other issues, the implication of exclusion isn't good here. Warranted or not. To continue to gain momentum and support on a larger scale, I'm just not convinced a perception of exclusion (as understanding and misunderstood as it is) is the best course of action.
 

Igo

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May 10, 2008
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Any pictures of the white splinter group? I'm picturing of a bunch of white people awkwardly standing around in a separate room while the real event happens elsewhere and it's fucking hilarious.
 

Infinite

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Personally I'd feel pretty shitty if I were there and someone told me to go home because being white means I'm not wanted. But being asked to leave is a hell of a lot better than unknowingly staying past your welcome, and having your presence unwanted in some places is just part of life. So it's whatever, I just think a "healing space" sounds silly and dramatic.
I think you're being silly and dramatic when you say shit like this at best and callous and selfish at worst. This isn't about your feelings dude. Calling people trying create a space where they feel comfortable with talking the very serious going ons here dramatic and silly when you have no skin in this game completely lacks perspective and empathy. white students were excluded from the movement entirely so why frame as such? also what is wrong with having safe spaces?
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
May 19, 2006
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Any pictures of the white splinter group? I'm picturing of a bunch of white people awkwardly standing around in a separate room while the real event happens elsewhere and it's fucking hilarious.

 
May 31, 2008
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Fair enough, I see your point and actually agree with you. For what it's worth, I don't feel that they did themselves any favours by not talking to the media, but the media has been pretty shitty in general when it comes to issues of this nature. If you can't trust them to tell your story - and the story ended up blowing up without them - I have no problem with how the students felt. If a reporter gets a pass to shove a mic in your face and ask questions, the public has a right to tell them to stick said mic and refuse to engage.

I'm more ticked about the disengenuous assholes who jump on this as an issue, while being completely silent about the larger issue of students' treatment up to this point. They aren't fooling anyone.

I get where you're coming from, but he was a photographer for the school newspaper taking pictures AFTER their victory. I understand how they felt, but I'd be lying if I said that the fact that nobody was cognizant of how their actions would come across, and how it would seem hypocritical to fight for your own rights while shutting down another right that undergirds and strengthens rights (like freedom of the press to document public spaces), didn't feed into my preconceptions of many modern social justice activists as overly emotional and out of touch, whatever the justness of their overarching cause and the reality of the pain that drove them to it.
 
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