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[Nirolak]

I saw this and found it rather interesting. I've embedded the tweets and the slide he references.

https://twitter.com/serkantoto/status/599175183702700032

 

[stan423321]

On one hand, it explains Konami's and other companies' enthusiasm about mobile platforms.

On the other hand, it raises questions.

Such as: why?

 

[Leafhopper]

Such as: why?

Money keeps companies around...?

Or do you mean why people in Japan spend more?

 

[Femmeworth]

Japan something something whaling.

 

[Nirolak]

I would guess that customers are more satisfied with the mobile games they're playing in Japan and view them more prominently as a gaming platform of choice as opposed to a diversion in between playing other games or just simply engaging in other activities.

Like the amount of shrinkage in the Japanese traditional industry suggests there are a lot of people who played a significant amount of games that are no longer playing on dedicated devices. If they're still notable gamers, then presumably they're playing all their games on mobile.

 

[rrvv]

On one hand, it explains Konami's and other companies' enthusiasm about mobile platforms.

On the other hand, it raises questions.

Such as: why?

You mean why Japanese covert to mobile?

that because lack of free time at home + popularity of public transport

 

[joezombie]

You mean why Japanese covert to mobile?

that because lack of free time at home + popularity of public transport

This explains the number of people playing, not the ratio of people who pay

 

[BocoDragon]

They've been trained via decades of gashapon to waste a yen or two on useless trinkets. Translates well to IAP.

 

[RedSwirl]

From what I've seen (magazine scans here and there), a lot of the mobile games from Japan look like they had considerably more work put into them compared to most western mobile games I've seen. They look somewhere in between western F2P gambling games and the kinds of RPGs you used to get on the DS. They're the kinds of games people wish would get localized in fact.

 

[Somnid]

That's good for Nintendo I guess as many people are actually willing and setup to spend money. Though it doesn't seem adventurous to guess the revenue is still exponentially weighted on certain users.

 

[Reset]

From what I've seen (magazine scans here and there), a lot of the mobile games from Japan look like they had considerably more work put into them compared to most western mobile games I've seen. They look somewhere in between western F2P gambling games and the kinds of RPGs you used to get on the DS. They're the kinds of games people wish would get localized in fact.

Isn't Puzzle and Dragons a really popular game in Japan?
I'd be ok if those types of games never got localized.

 

[Noobcraft]

Japan something something whaling.

Lol.

 

[MidBoss]

From what I've seen (magazine scans here and there), a lot of the mobile games from Japan look like they had considerably more work put into them compared to most western mobile games I've seen. They look somewhere in between western F2P gambling games and the kinds of RPGs you used to get on the DS. They're the kinds of games people wish would get localized in fact.

Also, less shovelware gets put up on their market because language barrier.

 

[rrvv]

This explains the number of people playing, not the ratio of people who pay

Because they dont spend money on game console. Might as well spend money on mobile phone.

Also Japan is not stranger of paying small amount of money for many times over in a game. We talking about land where arcade and panchiko is really popular.

 

[Sandfox]

Mobile is just going to keep growing in Japan and more big names will continue to enter the market in Japan.

I would guess that customers are more satisfied with the mobile games they're playing in Japan and view them more prominently as a gaming platform of choice as opposed to a diversion in between playing other games or just simply engaging in other activities.

Like the amount of shrinkage in the Japanese traditional industry suggests there are a lot of people who played a significant amount of games that are no longer playing on dedicated devices. If they're still notable gamers, then presumably they're playing all their games on mobile.

To me it just looks like mobile gaming is just a better fit for the average Japanese consumer.

 

[Fat4all]

Hmm. Previously a lot of Japanese gamers had dedicated handhelds that they would bring with them to play games.

Now a days it's not that convenient. They already have smartphones, so why not just get games on that?

Because they are playing more on their smartphones, they are probably spending less on dedicated handhelds and games for them, or at the very least they get them and game at home.

But because they are most likely spending less on the dedicated handheld, or buying less games for them, they probably don't see a problem spending a bit of money on a f2p game here or there as much as normal.

That could be the justification.

Even if it's all from my ass, I have no idea what I'm doing, who knows.

 

[RedSwirl]

All I'm saying is, this looks a little more appealing than what I'm seeing most of the time on the iOS store. Maybe it's just that Tetsuya Nomura's character designs make a mobile game look a little slicker than Dungeon Hunter or whatever else Gameloft puts out. Maybe that just shows Japan's developers are more willing to put their AAA talent on mobile games. Maybe it's just my bias for Nomura's art over generic WRPG designs.

 

[pje122]

All I'm saying is, this looks a little more appealing than what I'm seeing most of the time on the iOS store. Maybe it's just that Tetsuya Nomura's character designs make a mobile game look a little slicker than Dungeon Hunter or whatever else Gameloft puts out. Maybe that just shows Japan's developers are more willing to put their AAA talent on mobile games. Maybe it's just my bias for Nomura's art over generic WRPG designs.

Actually, no. That looks terrible.

 

[Leafhopper]

All I'm saying is, this looks a little more appealing than what I'm seeing most of the time on the iOS store. Maybe it's just that Tetsuya Nomura's character designs make a mobile game look a little slicker than Dungeon Hunter or whatever else Gameloft puts out. Maybe that just shows Japan's developers are more willing to put their AAA talent on mobile games. Maybe it's just my bias for Nomura's art over generic WRPG designs.

That doesn't look that great to be honest.

 

[stan423321]

Because they dont spend money on game console. Might as well spend money on mobile phone.

Perhaps PC F2P conversion rates would be a better comparison then? I believe they're similar or lower.

Also Japan is not stranger of paying small amount of money for many times over in a game. We talking about land where arcade and panchiko is really popular.

That has something to do with it, but it's more of a common effect than the cause. West used to have arcades and they fallen with advance of home systems.

 

[Dio]

I have absolutely no numbers to back the mobile assumptions I've made but with the rise of titles like Kancolle, which has had a meteoric rise in popularity because of all the cute girls getting fanart, fan music, fan everything, and even an anime adaptation after the fact - and the 'whales' involved being devoted to each 'girl' enough to spend lots of money ingame explain a lot.

The anime industry currently works like this: a lot of the money made back from the show is done by selling bluray sets to hardcore fans for 500 dollars or more. The devoted fans are the people spending the most by far on a show, to the point of buying everything from figurines to blurays to poster etc etc etc, sometimes even on a single character from the show.

I have a pretty solid feeling that this mentality makes mobile F2P games in Japan a perfect vehicle for getting more money out of these people.

Everyone seems to be getting on this bandwagon - the really popular Fate franchise is getting a mobile title, Fate/Grand Order - and it's no coincidence, I think, that a lot of the promotional material is centered around the cute girls that they want you to spend money on. Of course, I don't know how that title's revenue is made, but you get the idea.

 

[2San]

I have absolutely no numbers to back the mobile assumptions I've made but with the rise of titles like Kancolle, which has had a meteoric rise in popularity because of all the cute girls getting fanart, fan music, fan everything, and even an anime adaptation after the fact - and the 'whales' involved being devoted to each 'girl' enough to spend lots of money ingame explain a lot.

The anime industry currently works like this: a lot of the money made back from the show is done by selling bluray sets to hardcore fans for 500 dollars or more. The devoted fans are the people spending the most by far on a show, to the point of buying everything from figurines to blurays to poster etc etc etc, sometimes even on a single character from the show.

I have a pretty solid feeling that this mentality makes mobile F2P games in Japan a perfect vehicle for getting more money out of these people.

Everyone seems to be getting on this bandwagon - the really popular Fate franchise is getting a mobile title, Fate/Grand Order - and it's no coincidence, I think, that a lot of the promotional material is centered around the cute girls that they want you to spend money on. Of course, I don't know how that title's revenue is made, but you get the idea.

Did you even read the OP? The OP is about how there are a lot more paying customers that aren't whales compared to the west.

 

[Dio]

Did you even read the OP? The OP is about how there are a lot more paying customers that aren't whales compared to the west.

Yeah, I get that now. My bad, I responded a bit too quickly.

That being said, my point stands, it's just not representative of the whole.

 

[big_z]

Does this account for the gambling apps that are disguised as games? Japan has a sea of them and they aren't allowed on the American App Store. Might be the reason for the higher percentage.

 

[M3d10n]

I would guess that customers are more satisfied with the mobile games they're playing in Japan and view them more prominently as a gaming platform of choice as opposed to a diversion in between playing other games or just simply engaging in other activities.

Like the amount of shrinkage in the Japanese traditional industry suggests there are a lot of people who played a significant amount of games that are no longer playing on dedicated devices. If they're still notable gamers, then presumably they're playing all their games on mobile.

All it takes is a quick glance at the top charts on at the Japanese AppStore/Google Play and at the USA one to see that they are wildly different markets. Even with all the gatcha the successful Japanese mobile games are more "gamer-like" than the Western successes, which are lean more towards diversions.

The same goes for other Asian markets like China and Korea, where the top-games are almost all modeled after MMOs and MOGs. Heck, I saw a $10 premium game about a month ago that was #1 grossing in some Asian iOS appstores for a few days. It was a single-player character-action hack-n-slash game (!).

The utter dominance of handheld gaming and the decline in consoles sales in Japan during the past 10 years was a very clear sign: Japanese gamers vastly prefer to take their gaming with them. It just suits their lifestyle better. With them being hardcore mobile phone users, it's no surprise mobile gaming was going to be widely accepted. We even have people in Japan buying multiple phones so they can dedicate one for entertainment without having to worry about draining the battery of their "communication" phone.

Does this account for the gambling apps that are disguised as games? Japan has a sea of them and they aren't allowed on the American App Store. Might be the reason for the higher percentage.

Funny, the US iOS top grossing chart is littered with Western gambling games (slots, casino, poker, etc). There's often four/five in the top 10 and at around 20 in the top 100. It's the most represented "genre" in the top grossing chart.

American mobile users sure love their gambling.

 

[QaaQer]

I would guess that customers are more satisfied with the mobile games they're playing in Japan and view them more prominently as a gaming platform of choice as opposed to a diversion in between playing other games or just simply engaging in other activities.

Like the amount of shrinkage in the Japanese traditional industry suggests there are a lot of people who played a significant amount of games that are no longer playing on dedicated devices. If they're still notable gamers, then presumably they're playing all their games on mobile.

Here is my mind reading based on suppisition: more gacha, more social hooks, and more time spent gaming while going to and from work. As for why rates are higher, in the west gambling is much more in the open so our recreational users have many more opportunities to waste money than just iaps and pachinko dens.

I find it hard to believe anyone outside of the industry or GAF asks themselves 'are mobile phones my gaming platform of choice and should I support it with money'. It is more likely they are asking 'how can I kill some time', and f2p gacha games are right there.

 

[QaaQer]

All it takes is a quick glance at the top charts on at the Japanese AppStore/Google Play and at the USA one to see that they are wildly different markets. Even with all the gatcha the successful Japanese mobile games are more "gamer-like" than the Western successes, which are lean more towards diversions.

The same goes for other Asian markets like China and Korea, where the top-games are almost all modeled after MMOs and MOGs. Heck, I saw a $10 premium game about a month ago that was #1 grossing in some Asian iOS appstores for a few days. It was a single-player character-action hack-n-slash game (!).

The utter dominance of handheld gaming and the decline in consoles sales in Japan during the past 10 years was a very clear sign: Japanese gamers vastly prefer to take their gaming with them. It just suits their lifestyle better. With them being hardcore mobile phone users, it's no surprise mobile gaming was going to be widely accepted. We even have people in Japan buying multiple phones so they can dedicate one for entertainment without having to worry about draining the battery of their "communication" phone.



Funny, the US iOS top grossing chart is littered with Western gambling games (slots, casino, poker, etc). There's often four/five in the top 10 and at around 20 in the top 100. It's the most represented "genre" in the top grossing chart.

American mobile users sure love their gambling.

Gacha games are illegal in China and heavily scrutinized in Korea.

 

[Macrotus]

Money keeps companies around...?

Or do you mean why people in Japan spend more?

If its why Japan spends more in "gatcha", is probably because so many people have gambling addiction here.

The Japanese government are talking about changing their law in order to start building Casinos across Japan. And they also mentioned about restricting Japanese people from entering them. Yes, a Casino in Japan restricting Japanese people from entering them.
Because there are many Japanese people addicted to gambling such as Pachinko, Slots and the government knows Casinos would make it worse.

I think thats the reason why people spend so much money on Gatchas, because its like gambling. My friend spent 50,000 yen just this month on Monster Strike during the Evangelion event to obtain all of the Gatcha characters....

 

[Femmeworth]

If its why Japan spends more in "gatcha", is probably because so many people have gambling addiction here.

The Japanese government are talking about changing their law in order to start building Casinos across Japan. And they also mentioned about restricting Japanese people from entering them. Yes, a Casino in Japan restricting Japanese people from entering them.
Because there are many Japanese people addicted to gambling such as Pachinko, Slots and the government knows Casinos would make it worse.

I think thats the reason why people spend so much money on Gatchas, because its like gambling. My friend spent 50,000 yen just this month on Monster Strike during the Evangelion event to obtain all of the Gatcha characters....

It's gambling without the possibility of a financial payoff.

 

[Alchemy]

Thats a fucking dream for F2P games. I was working on a couple F2P games and we pretty much were certain that 99% of our users would never pay a dime. Though burning money advertising to cheap users, mainly Brazilian kids, without having mobile payments implemented was dumb as fuck.

 

[Sanctuary]

Actually, no. That looks terrible.

Kind of looks like Wild Arms.

 

[lord]

holy crap, no wonder Japanese companies are flocking to that market, that's an attractive as fuck market, it's the equivalent of scarlett johansson or something. I'm dying to see their analytic data though, retention, average session, all that stuff.

 

[QaaQer]

holy crap, no wonder Japanese companies are flocking to that market, that's an attractive as fuck market, it's the equivalent of scarlett johansson or something. I'm dying to see their analytic data though, retention, average session, all that stuff.

Watch 'Under the Skin'. Don't read anything about it, just watch it cold. You can thank me later.

 

[Macrotus]

It's gambling without the possibility of a financial payoff.

Yeah it is. Thats why I personally don't understand those people. (and I'm probably the minority)

The following is a graph someone made for Mixi, the creators of Monster Strike.

The numbers on the left side are in "hundred million yen".
Before introducing Monster Strike, Mixi mainly provided a social community service like Facebook and they were under 5 billion yen.
After they released Monster Strike, their sales skyrockets to 45 billion yen.
F2P with Gatchas are a gold mine in Japan.

So I can understand various Japanese game developers prioritising mobile games.

 

[Falk]

On one hand, it explains Konami's and other companies' enthusiasm about mobile platforms.

On the other hand, it raises questions.

Such as: why?

Gacha and pachinko machines make for awesome conditioning.

 

[faridmon]

Most things are more expensive in Japan!

 

[uncredited male]

Japan something something whaling.

I couldn't find a good George Takei pic for this.

 

[Zomba13]

Now I understand Japanese companies fascination with F2P mobile shit.

Still doesn't mean I'm not bummed we aren't getting more cool console games (or even non-F2P cash grab bullshit mobile games) but I now understand.

I just hope that when Nintendo starts pumping out their mobile F2P exclusive cash grabs and get huge money back they don't just abandon consoles completely.

 

[big_z]

Funny, the US iOS top grossing chart is littered with Western gambling games (slots, casino, poker, etc). There's often four/five in the top 10 and at around 20 in the top 100. It's the most represented "genre" in the top grossing chart.

American mobile users sure love their gambling.

There's only two gambling apps in the top 20 but I was referring to the Gacha type games people have brought up now.(couldnt remember the name) Those games(?) are designed in a way that triggers the same addiction gambling does but all ages can play. Concerns over gacha have been brought up before and are basically considered dirty apps yet are hugely popular in Japan. If they are counted in the percentage then a good portion could be from that.

 

[RedSwirl]

All it takes is a quick glance at the top charts on at the Japanese AppStore/Google Play and at the USA one to see that they are wildly different markets. Even with all the gatcha the successful Japanese mobile games are more "gamer-like" than the Western successes, which are lean more towards diversions.

The same goes for other Asian markets like China and Korea, where the top-games are almost all modeled after MMOs and MOGs. Heck, I saw a $10 premium game about a month ago that was #1 grossing in some Asian iOS appstores for a few days. It was a single-player character-action hack-n-slash game (!).

The utter dominance of handheld gaming and the decline in consoles sales in Japan during the past 10 years was a very clear sign: Japanese gamers vastly prefer to take their gaming with them. It just suits their lifestyle better. With them being hardcore mobile phone users, it's no surprise mobile gaming was going to be widely accepted. We even have people in Japan buying multiple phones so they can dedicate one for entertainment without having to worry about draining the battery of their "communication" phone.

Any idea where I could find these charts and good descriptions of said games?

 

[M3d10n]

Any idea where I could find these charts and good descriptions of said games?

Install iTunes on a PC or Mac, go to the app store, scroll all the way to the bottom and click on the country flag button. There you can switch to any country app store and view what's in the spotlight and the charts in that country.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Oh now I know why the JP versions of mobile games always have more lenient RNG than the Western versions. Because the JPs are going to spend the money anyways, but fuck you Murricans, we're going to make you suffer as much as possible so you'll give us money.

 

[GoldCrusader]

All I'm saying is, this looks a little more appealing than what I'm seeing most of the time on the iOS store. Maybe it's just that Tetsuya Nomura's character designs make a mobile game look a little slicker than Dungeon Hunter or whatever else Gameloft puts out. Maybe that just shows Japan's developers are more willing to put their AAA talent on mobile games. Maybe it's just my bias for Nomura's art over generic WRPG designs.

This looks great! If more game on mobile would have that kind design I would probably play them way more.

 

[Xiao Hu]

So what kind of purchaseable extras are we talking about? Is it unlockable content or booster packs? Because this stuff reeks of some really vile gambling.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I never thought that the US had the same sort of cultural satisfaction towards mobile games as a platform. But I never saw numbers to back it up, just my own experience. But seeing the disparity between east and west in this context validates my understanding that the markets are two completely different beasts now, with very different appetites.

 

[bodyboarder]

Not surprised. The amount of advertising for mobile games in Japan is quite high.

 

[RedSwirl]

Install iTunes on a PC or Mac, go to the app store, scroll all the way to the bottom and click on the country flag button. There you can switch to any country app store and view what's in the spotlight and the charts in that country.

Oh shit I didn't know that.

Anyway, I really don't like how Japanese and Chinese companies advertise mobile games. Because of all the advertising text you can't see what the actual game looks like. I understand if this is the culture over there, but they don't even change it for the English versions (other than maybe translating that big-ass text). I have to look the games up on YouTube to see what they actually look like.

 

[DNAbro]

I just don't get why people pay for it.

 

[Acidote]

Any data on European conversion rates?

 

[KTO]

The Japanese government are talking about changing their law in order to start building Casinos across Japan. And they also mentioned about restricting Japanese people from entering them. Yes, a Casino in Japan restricting Japanese people from entering them.

This is a lot more common than you must realize. Koreans aren't allowed to gamble at any of their casinos. Monaco forbids any citizens from gambing at the Monte Carlo. In Asia especially the operation of casinos is done mainly to attract gamblers from China. Heck, set foot into almost any casino in the US and you will quickly figure out what audience these places cater to.