• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Mobile gaming is for filthy casuals, aye?

Skyn3t

Banned
Jun 6, 2018
1,111
1,556
420
Not exactly, my dear GAFers. We have quite capable hardware (flagship phones) with shitty batteries and god-awful touch input that is a real trainwreck in anything but Candy Crash Saga. But if we added a controller peripheral with battery extension? Yep, smartphones could be a viable next step for handheld gaming, especially with such efforts like Microsoft's Project xCloud.



 

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
May 22, 2018
4,659
13,059
825
Wonder if Nintendo would ever consider doing their own hardware addon for iphone/ipad and fully-fledged nintendo games, like they would make for their own handhelds
 

Skyn3t

Banned
Jun 6, 2018
1,111
1,556
420
Some years ago there were rumors about a Nintendo Phone. It would probably look like this.

 
Last edited:

ISee

Member
Feb 18, 2014
4,789
28
410
It of course isn't and as you said: Controllers make perfect playable machines out of our smartphone. Machines that can be used for 3-4 hours :(
In general: The problem with smartphone gaming isn't the platform or the audience, it is the amount of exploitative strategies used in (most) mobile games. You see a mobile game, you expect the company to take advantage of you, your time and your money in the worst possible way.

--> people expect to have to deal with aggressive transactions and refuse to buy games for more then a couple of bucks --> developers don't release $70 AAA franchise itterations and implement aggressive microtransactions
/repeat.
 
Last edited:

Bullet Club

Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,870
6,524
795
I use an 8Bitdo SF30 Pro with my phone (Pixel 2) with games like Bully, GTA: SA, KOTOR etc. It's pretty good.

 
Feb 9, 2018
1,802
2,611
390
The problem with using a controller is that it loses a lot of the portability, which is supposed to be a big selling point. I've tried a game with on screen buttons and found it unplayable.
 

AV

Gold Member
May 31, 2018
2,459
4,621
560
Leeds, UK
As soon as you add a physical controller and actual games not designed to be played by tapping glass, then sure, it becomes totally viable.

The whole "mobile gaming is cancer" thing stems from people who would never normally play games, but who will download free / 99 cent mobile games where all you do is tap buttons to win. Yes, technically, those are still games, being played, but only belligerent pedants put that stuff in the same ballpark as "real" games.
 
Last edited:

danielberg

Member
Jun 20, 2018
2,526
2,924
385
I wouldn't go that far... it just isnt for me.
The games i usually play are big and demand a big display or rather a big projector/ home theater.
I have no interest in playing rpgs or zelda on a small screen no matter phone or handheld and i am not the guy that even needs it because i have to wait 10-15 minutes somewhere lol i take silent relaxing over gaming in these rare cases.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Feb 19, 2014
8,198
1,655
575
Like, if I was going to go to all that effort I'd just use Bluestacks and Joy2con to play Android games on my PC using a 360 controller.

I'm pretty sure saying that puts me on several watchlists.
 

Vawn

Member
Feb 20, 2018
2,915
4,978
430
The vast majority of people will never carry around controllers for their cell phone. Thus, mobile developers won't make this a focus.

On top of that, the best selling mobile games will be based on lowest price and impulse purchases with no real knowledge of a game's quality. So developers will continue to be most concerned in how to get their icon to be tempting than the actual quality of the game.
 

The_Mike

...dropped on head by Jack Tretton (2013)
Nov 5, 2017
1,459
1,194
490
Denmark
I hate that Microsoft never made streaming from Cbox to iPad available after showing it as a feature years ago.

They probably want you to buy a surface, which is too damn expensive
 

JimboJones

Member
Apr 16, 2009
2,749
386
925
N.Ireland
Battery life on phones suck too much for me to use it seriously I would probably have to purchase a seperate gaming only phone but by that point i may as we'll just buy a switch or DS.
 

Geki-D

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,354
2,260
505
It has less to do with the controls (though they don't help) and more to do with the fact most and nearly all but a few phones games are money grabbing Candy Crush type puzzle games.
 

Boss Mog

Member
Dec 12, 2013
4,925
4,161
730
Controllers aren't mobile gaming's main problem, there's been plenty of controller options for a while now. Mobile gaming's biggest problem is that there's almost no high quality games except for a few console ports. Most games are shitty soulless Chinese clones with pay to win microtransactions. If games like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed and Killzone can have great entries on the Vita then there's no reason they couldn't be on Android/iOS yet it's not the case. Big console publishers refuse to create console quality titles for mobile and instead focus on quick microtransaction-filled cash-grabs that are often outsourced to Chinese devs.

This is why gamers don't like mobile, it has nothing to do with the narrative SJWs push about it being due to sexism because a lot of women play mobile games. I like it when more women play games, I just want them to experience the best gaming has to offer rather than wasting time on garbage like candy crush. There's a thread about lady gaga playing Bayonetta, that's the kind of stuff I want to see more of.
 

Makariel

Gold Member
Jan 14, 2018
1,726
1,489
535
I enjoyed playing XCOM Enemy Unknown on my phone, wouldn't call that a casual game. It's a bit like saying PC is for filthy casuals, because there's match 3 games on steam?

Problem is that there is lots of shovelware and apart from some ports of Firaxis games, Lara Croft GO and Republique I am not aware of many decent games on mobile. Some things like the "Asphalt" arcade racer series could be quite fun, but the monetization is what turns me off with mobile games. I'd be more interested in mobile games if I could just pay upfront for the game and play it, and not be asked every other minutes if I want to buy coins to reduce a cooldown timer to zero.
 

Simply_Bry

Member
Sep 2, 2018
151
256
300
The point of smartphones is the portability and nobody wants to take (and lose) these add-ons everytime they go outside. Why is everybody trying to replace gaming consoles with these goddamn smartphones. It's never gonna work. Stop it.
 

hariseldon

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,013
4,498
510
As others have alluded to, it's not about being casual, and honestly I don't mind a bit of casual gaming, hell Bejeweled scratched a nice itch back in the day (actually much of the Popcap ouvre back in the day - Chuzzle for some reason was really fun too). The problem that many of us have with mobile games, imo, is the exploitative nature of the relationship between game publisher and customer, where microtransactions, pay-to-win etc infest game design so that the game is deliberately designed to be no fun without dropping extra cash. That this is bleeding into PC and console gaming slowly but surely due to its success on mobile adds fuel to the fire making gamers really fucking hate mobile games.
 

Yoshi

Member
May 4, 2005
14,109
2,642
1,570
32
Germany
www.gaming-universe.de
Aye.

Of course, phones, which sport pretty strong hardware, can be used for good games, but the environment is just not good for classical business model games. Also I much prefer a system with a physical distribution model (i.e. I will only buy such systems).
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
13,150
23,833
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
Mobile gaming is already pretty fun if the game is fun. But I don't want peripherals for that sort of gaming. The whole point is portability and simplicity. Great for puzzle games and the occasional shmup. Not really conducive to much else, though.
 

FStubbs

Member
Aug 29, 2010
4,004
282
655
The point of smartphones is the portability and nobody wants to take (and lose) these add-ons everytime they go outside. Why is everybody trying to replace gaming consoles with these goddamn smartphones. It's never gonna work. Stop it.
Smartphones replaced a lot of devices and Apple fanboys have been waiting for consoles to be destroyed but it hasn't happened.
 

DonF

Member
Jul 10, 2017
2,438
2,014
430
As many have already pointed out, its about the software, not the hardware.

Phones are very capable machines now, but the software just isnt there yet. Poorly optimized (bad performance, UI or input methods), shady monetization practices and lame limiting mechanics (timers or energy) make it so that most of the popular games in the platform are candy crash clones or gatcha games.

I also believe that a lack of easy-er payment methods makes it so that developers don't want to sell a game for 40+ bucks, since not that many people have access or understanding of payments in the platform.
 

RoboFu

Member
Oct 10, 2017
281
148
180
It seems like with the success of the switch that the big phone manufacturers would jump to make docks for thier products. I wonder why that’s not a thing?
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Mar 21, 2013
3,137
2,411
1,035
I think the main issue is treating 'mobile' as a market when it has the most diverse differences in terms of hardware, software, form factor, screen size etc. These companies publish a one size fits all game that doesn't quite produce a full experience on any.

For me the pushback against mobile gaming is simple to see. Technically, streaming to your phone or tablet is viable now across Steam, PSN and XBL but there aren't many people taking advantage of it. The experience is too inconsistent and that encapsulates the entire mobile gaming market in a nutshell at the moment. The idea of playing your console games on a mobile device - sounds great. But then I need my controller....then any delays or drops and the bitrate or encoding causes smears and frame drops so consistent performance is also an issue. Even something as simple as a sonic game doesn't really work on a mobile platform - I guess it falls into passable.

I have a switch, but still prefer the controller in my hand as opposed to jointed onto the device. I look at the Android games and they seem to be heavily physics based, quiz/puzzle based, hidden object or games like brickbreaker, arkanoid, river raid, golf. You know basically those flash games you'd find on candystand or newgrounds way back when. But not even as polished. Add to this when you find a game you like that it's filled to the brim with menu's, gems, crystals, flashes etc.

For me mobile is still in the same place as VR, motion controls, and 3D gaming. Sure, it exists and you'll get a small pool of users heavily invested but ultimately there is nothing compelling there at the moment. I'm open minded with regards to games but withot haptic feedback the OD controls are ok-ish but it's easy to miss or overstep control boundaries or have dirt/obstruction on the glass cause an issue.

Developers and publishers are seeing mobile as a platform to deliver existing games to. I would argue it's a genre and one very poorly represented at that. It's like yeah these devices can play games but they aren't a substitute in the same way as a phone can be for a camera. Not because of the hardware, but because of the software. I'm a fan of supplementary apps - as long as they work and are good. I see all these games now becoming RPG-Lite and having inventory management, map management etc. so try to bring an experience where people can earn XP for the games they want whilst mobile. Let's stop trying to bring tier 1 games to mobiles, let's bring supplementary experiences to tier 1 games there and integrate them.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,767
571
430
"I don't like mobile games because they're all shallow time wasters"
"OMG don't put fucking diablo on mobile waaaaaaaaaaaah"
 
Nov 13, 2016
1,539
1,391
395
I'm kinda looking forward to that Mario Kart mobile game. It could be really fun to have one of those with you at all times. Let's hope it's just a game you buy and without microtransactions.
 

JoeyWestSide

Member
Aug 20, 2018
283
89
265
Rio Rancho, NM
It of course isn't and as you said: Controllers make perfect playable machines out of our smartphone. Machines that can be used for 3-4 hours :(
In general: The problem with smartphone gaming isn't the platform or the audience, it is the amount of exploitative strategies used in (most) mobile games. You see a mobile game, you expect the company to take advantage of you, your time and your money in the worst possible way.

--> people expect to have to deal with aggressive transactions and refuse to buy games for more then a couple of bucks --> developers don't release $70 AAA franchise itterations and implement aggressive microtransactions
/repeat.
Well what is "exploitative" is subjective. Console games have an overhead of about 300 bucks for any console while most of the world already has a smartphone. Economics in practice.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,767
571
430
Try again, this time presenting an actual argument.
Sure.
Here is a satirical essay about the F2P fear mongering from #realgamers.

Mobile is more popular than consoles - vastly more popular - for a number of reasons.
That you can fully enjoy what a game has to offer before dropping a penny on it instead of relying on cosy-in-bed-with-publishers 'reviews' from the gaming press who will give a game 7/10 just for showing up is not "exploitative".
 

blly155

Member
Aug 3, 2014
9,790
1,397
570
i don't have anything against people playing on mobile. yeah i think it's for casual players but there's nothing wrong with that. a lot of people like games but not enough to buy a console or build a PC. can't blame gaming companies trying to expand their reach, can you?

mobile isn't for me. i just absolutely hate touch screens and adding controllers onto a phone/tablet isn't the solution. i'll just stick with my Switch for portable gaming.
 

hariseldon

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,013
4,498
510
Sure.
Here is a satirical essay about the F2P fear mongering from #realgamers.

Mobile is more popular than consoles - vastly more popular - for a number of reasons.
That you can fully enjoy what a game has to offer before dropping a penny on it instead of relying on cosy-in-bed-with-publishers 'reviews' from the gaming press who will give a game 7/10 just for showing up is not "exploitative".
Microtransactions targetting whales, buy-50-gems-or-this-sick-puppy-will-die emotional manipulation of children, etc not bother you?

And if we're using popularity as a metric:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19931226/7501/ Here's proof that Mr Blobby is better than:
- Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell
- Frankie Goes To Hollywood - The Power Of Love
- Whitney Houston - I Will Always Love You
- Bjork - Big Time Sensuality
- Nirvana - Rape Me
- PJ and Duncan - Tonight I'm Free (ok maybe I'll give Mr Blobby that one)


Enjoy your high-quality piece of music. Btw if you want a more recent version I'll just say one thing. Ed fucking Sheeran.
 

Alter_Fridge

Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,174
145
295
Microtransactions targetting whales, buy-50-gems-or-this-sick-puppy-will-die emotional manipulation of children, etc not bother you?

And if we're using popularity as a metric:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19931226/7501/ Here's proof that Mr Blobby is better than:
- Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell
- Frankie Goes To Hollywood - The Power Of Love
- Whitney Houston - I Will Always Love You
- Bjork - Big Time Sensuality
- Nirvana - Rape Me
- PJ and Duncan - Tonight I'm Free (ok maybe I'll give Mr Blobby that one)


Enjoy your high-quality piece of music. Btw if you want a more recent version I'll just say one thing. Ed fucking Sheeran.
Melody is totally ripped off of Skippy The Bush Kangaroo

 

hariseldon

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,013
4,498
510
I'm guessing you've had a sense of humour bypass. My point is that shit sells. I see you skillfully sidestepped the issue of exploitative business practices there, well done. Keep being an edge-lord.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,767
571
430
I'm guessing you've had a sense of humour bypass. My point is that shit sells. I see you skillfully sidestepped the issue of exploitative business practices there, well done. Keep being an edge-lord.
Its covered in the satirical article I posted.
Mobiles business model is no more exploitative than consoles business model is no more exploitative than an arcades business model.
Its just a convenient buzzword for people who don't want to play mobile games to drop and feel superior.
 

hariseldon

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,013
4,498
510
Nope, I call bullshit.

1. Purchase sight unseen First of all, for a pay to play product, you put your money down, you get the full game (yes some shit has bled over from mobile with microtransactions and DLC but if we're going to compare pure PC/console business model vs mobile then it seems daft to include that which mobile has created in our lands). You can get a pretty good idea of what you're getting from watching some youtube videos, and that's been the case for a long time. Back in the day, reviews may or may not be honest but generally one could look at the screenshots and look at who was writing about the game (eg if it's John Walker at RPS just do the opposite of what he says), etc.
2. Use of propaganda I'm glad to hear that mobile games never have TV adverts, paid shills on Youtube, paid reviews on app stores, etc. That's a relief.
3. Limiting information That works for about 5 minutes, but then the game's out and people post things on YouTube.
4. Distorted Game Design The creator sells you his/her vision. That's it. Nothing about the purchase process seeps into the game. On the other hand, in a microtransactions game, management will be demanding that you increase conversion rates, so you start targetting the people who spend more, the people who are vulnerable, etc and you start emotionally manipulating. It's the same shit first pioneered by fucking Farmville.
5. Targetting those least able to understand modern sales techniques Yeah that page lost me when it said games were bought by uneducated males, while women are an educated demographic. No agenda there. No-siree. Btw most gamers these days are in their 30s and pretty decently educated. Insulting us by calling us thick (hi I've got an MSc) isn't a good look.
6. Bundling Yeah getting a load of games that a lot of people legitimately enjoy for a tenner on Humble Bundle is so evil.
7. Skinner Boxes. In general, the more microtransaction, the more skinner box. The arguments presented don't even know what a fucking skinner box is.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,767
571
430
Not in understanding satire, obviously.
That article literally uses all of the same tired arguments used against F2P but against the traditional gaming model, and where it cites evidence, it cites factually correct evidence, such as the demographics of F2P skewing more female and older, or that the majroty of tradfitional games literally never get played to completion.
 

ael85

Member
Aug 17, 2016
638
463
350
Across the universe
The problems with mobile gaming are battery and input. Battery is and will be for what seems to be a long time a big issue for mobile gaming. Regarding input, you can argue like OP did with those ridiculous peripherals but at the end of the day the crutches are there because mobile games are designed to be "perfectly" playable with touch controls.
 

Akuza89

Member
Aug 12, 2018
920
480
350
England
www.youtube.com
To be honest.. most mobile games are just for a quick game here and there... hence why games like fruit ninja and doodle jump work on the phones.

Being totally honest, I don't play games on my phone but when I do it's usually because I've forgotten my switch or 3DS ... I can see the appeal of moving stuff to the mobile phone market though, it's a huge install base for any game.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
13,288
4,292
1,035
Mobile gaming in the past few years has become a lot more viable, but in my personal opinion it's not going to be seen as anything other than a distraction by the traditional gaming crowd until an input system is standardized.

We saw this with PC games around 2010-2011: even if a game supported controllers (which they had been doing so since the DOS era) the xinput system in Windows didn't really fully take flight until Microsoft released the xbox 360 controller for Windows. It became synonymous with "PC Controller" and the xinput standard, along with 360 button prompts, was what most people put into their games. Mobile needs something like that. "Standard" bluetooth controllers are becoming pretty prevalent but there are tons of mobile games with "controller support" that will only work with certain brands or certain layouts or other standards so the whole thing gets confusing.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but OP's idea feels like this:

 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
9,111
1,163
710
I'm into using a controller like that with all the power we have in phones.

The problem is price presure. The XS is easily crotch, torso, and shoulders above the Switch in power, but that doesn't mean anything remotely close to BoTW has been made for it.

I'd really like Apple/Google to start courting exclusive games to really use the power in phones.