Support NeoGAF

[clarky]

SBMM is here to stay, adapt or move on.

SBMM is fine when done correctly, and its been around forever. Its implementation in COD is what the issue is. While matches might be tight im either top of the leaderboard or dead last. Its super aggressive with little in between. You end up in a good lobby with similar skilled players once in a blue moon have a great time then get split up. Its shit and ruins what otherwise looks to be a great game.

 

[jaysius]

SBMM is fine when done correctly, and its been around forever. Its implementation in COD is what the issue is. While matches might be tight im either top of the leaderboard or dead last. Its super aggressive with little in between. You end up in a good lobby with similar skilled players once in a blue moon have a great time then get split up. Its shit and ruins what otherwise looks to be a great game.

Yup, always the same old song and dance with the SBMM whiners.

You might not win every match, that’s ok.

 

[clarky]

Yup, always the same old song and dance with the SBMM whiners.

You might not win every match, that’s ok.

its fine when the implementation is done right. I am in no way a good player in fact im below average probably a 1.2 kda. The way its done in COD fucking sucks and is wildly hated by every I know. I don't want to stomp on everyone that's about as enjoyable to me as getting stomped on. Id like to be matched with players of equal skill, something with COD fails miserably at 9 times out of 10. It swings too wildly too often from one extreme to the other, like i said.

Did you even read my post or are you set to auto respond every time you see the acronym SBMM?

 

[Crew511A]

Yup, always the same old song and dance with the SBMM whiners.

You might not win every match, that’s ok.

The problem is the game absolutely punishes you for doing well, and then throws you in a lobby of people with no thumbs after 4 or 5 rough or mediocre games. It's tiresome, and no other franchise has the cumbersome SBMM system COD has.

Connection should be the number 1 priority. Not rigged matchmaking.

 

[clarky]

The problem is the game absolutely punishes you for doing well, and then throws you in a lobby of people with no thumbs after 4 or 5 rough or mediocre games. It's tiresome, and no other franchise has the cumbersome SBMM system COD has.

Connection should be the number 1 priority. Not rigged matchmaking.

This guy knows whats up.

 

[01011001]

The problem is the game absolutely punishes you for doing well, and then throws you in a lobby of people with no thumbs after 4 or 5 rough or mediocre games. It's tiresome, and no other franchise has the cumbersome SBMM system COD has.

Connection should be the number 1 priority. Not rigged matchmaking.

you haven't played many modern shooters then it seems.

that's TrueSkill 2, TrueSkill 2 tries to keep you at a roughly 50% win rate.

TrueSkill 2 is not designed to give you fair matches, it's designed to manipulate dumb people (quite literally). the average idiot (casual) can be manipulated by TrueSkill 2's matchmaking system to thinking that the get really hard enemy teams but still win every other match!

in reality what actually happens of course is that the game will match you up with really bad teammates and really strong enemy teams if you win too much,
and if you lose too much they will stick you in a super strong team against a really weak one.

this apparently increases player retention because most people are easily manipulable


in a game like Halo, that almost noone plays, this also has the additional negative side effect that, if you are partying up with really good players and try to find a match, your matchmaking times will be ridiculously long, with some super high skill YouTubers and streamers reporting 40min queue times if they want to play with their equally skilled friends...
because the system will want you to lose, but your team is so strong that it has a hard time making an unfair match for you so it can force to make you lose...

and then it's stuck in an almost infinite loop where it tries to fill the rest of our team with people that can't use a controller properly while trying to give you esports professionals as enemies, which with a tiny playerbase like Halo Infinite has is almost impossible.

 

[u4ea]

Yeah, that's the only thing I don't like about MW2019. Great game but the SBMM made me rage so much. I was getting stomped on so much, waaaay more than every other CoD game.
Killstreaks were absolutely useless. I got a single good game and then it was impossible for me to get a positive K/D the whole night.

I'm really average at the game but I felt like a 60yo boomer in mw2019.

 

[samoilaaa]

i dont understand how can a 3080 ti reach a maximum of 130 fps at 1440p and the ps5/XSX can run at 1440p 120 fps , what magic is this ? i saw the video from digital foundry at on consoles very rare it drops under 120 fps

 

[01011001]

i dont understand how can a 3080 ti reach a maximum of 130 fps at 1440p and the ps5/XSX can run at 1440p 120 fps , what magic is this ? i saw the video from digital foundry at on consoles very rare it drops under 120 fps

it doesn't run at 1440p on console, it runs at dynamic 2560x1440 that goes all the way down to 1280x1440 during heavy loads

just a comparison with pixels
2560 x 1440 = 3.686.400 (highest possible pixels rendered)
1280 x 1440 = 1.843.200 (lowest possible pixels rendered)
1920 x 1080 = 2.073.600

so it basically drops to a resolution that's lower than 1080p in terms of raw pixels rendered

 

[LegendOfKage]

you haven't played many modern shooters then it seems.

that's TrueSkill 2, TrueSkill 2 tries to keep you at a roughly 50% win rate.

TrueSkill 2 is not designed to give you fair matches, it's designed to manipulate dumb people (quite literally). the average idiot (casual) can be manipulated by TrueSkill 2's matchmaking system to thinking that the get really hard enemy teams but still win every other match!

in reality what actually happens of course is that the game will match you up with really bad teammates and really strong enemy teams if you win too much,
and if you lose too much they will stick you in a super strong team against a really weak one.

this apparently increases player retention because most people are easily manipulable


in a game like Halo, that almost noone plays, this also has the additional negative side effect that, if you are partying up with really good players and try to find a match, your matchmaking times will be ridiculously long, with some super high skill YouTubers and streamers reporting 40min queue times if they want to play with their equally skilled friends...
because the system will want you to lose, but your team is so strong that it has a hard time making an unfair match for you so it can force to make you lose...

and then it's stuck in an almost infinite loop where it tries to fill the rest of our team with people that can't use a controller properly while trying to give you esports professionals as enemies, which with a tiny playerbase like Halo Infinite has is almost impossible.

Yep. To call it skill-based matchmaking is way too generous. It's retention-based matchmaking, and nothing more.

 

[The ninja farmer]

Enjoyed the beta for what it was and for all the cod frustrations and activision cash grabbing.

I’m in for this year

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don’t mind sbmm, I just want them to figure out making lobbies of gamers load faster.

And the game starts with a 20 second timer countdown (I forget which modes). The older CODs were super fast starting matches with little dead time.

It’s got worse over time.

 

[clarky]

I don’t mind sbmm, I just want them to figure out making lobbies of gamers load faster.

And the game starts with a 20 second timer countdown (I forget which modes). The older CODs were super fast starting matches with little dead time.

It’s got worse over time.

You've got peasants with og xbox ones and PS4's. Gotta wait for them to load in as well. Welcome to next gen.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You've got peasants with og xbox ones and PS4's. Gotta wait for them to load in as well. Welcome to next gen.

Ah crap. Forgot about this. Lol

 

[jorgejjvr]

I played exactly two matches then uninstalled.

It felt like playing CoD: Ghost but worse.

I'll play ghosts over Mw2 any day of the week

 

[Chronicle]

Leave the lobbies so I can hear the haaaaaaaate!

 

[PerfectDark]

my group won 50/50 domination matches. SBMM does nothing to help. It just ruins solo casual playing. Instead of getting a wide range of players I will just get games with all solid players and no bad. Which makes me have to play hard. Sometimes its fun to be competitive in games. And sometimes its fun to sit back relax and not play hard.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

From

it doesn't run at 1440p on console, it runs at dynamic 2560x1440 that goes all the way down to 1280x1440 during heavy loads

just a comparison with pixels
2560 x 1440 = 3.686.400 (highest possible pixels rendered)
1280 x 1440 = 1.843.200 (lowest possible pixels rendered)
1920 x 1080 = 2.073.600

so it basically drops to a resolution that's lower than 1080p in terms of raw pixels rendered

Ouch

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

you haven't played many modern shooters then it seems.

that's TrueSkill 2, TrueSkill 2 tries to keep you at a roughly 50% win rate.

TrueSkill 2 is not designed to give you fair matches, it's designed to manipulate dumb people (quite literally). the average idiot (casual) can be manipulated by TrueSkill 2's matchmaking system to thinking that the get really hard enemy teams but still win every other match!

in reality what actually happens of course is that the game will match you up with really bad teammates and really strong enemy teams if you win too much,
and if you lose too much they will stick you in a super strong team against a really weak one.

this apparently increases player retention because most people are easily manipulable


in a game like Halo, that almost noone plays, this also has the additional negative side effect that, if you are partying up with really good players and try to find a match, your matchmaking times will be ridiculously long, with some super high skill YouTubers and streamers reporting 40min queue times if they want to play with their equally skilled friends...
because the system will want you to lose, but your team is so strong that it has a hard time making an unfair match for you so it can force to make you lose...

and then it's stuck in an almost infinite loop where it tries to fill the rest of our team with people that can't use a controller properly while trying to give you esports professionals as enemies, which with a tiny playerbase like Halo Infinite has is almost impossible.

The state of multiplayer games is really bad right now. That's just a horrible system. Add to that having cross play forced on us so controller users are at a disadvantage right from the beginning of every match. Back in the days of Halo 2/3/mw2/black ops as a console player I don't remember having such a hard time finding matches versus only other console players. Now, if I want to be able to find matches quickly I'm forced to play against m+k players. Try turning cross play off in Halo Infinite/mw2/or bf 2042 and see how that works out.

The issue over sbmm that you talked about is another similar aspect of how it's all about profit, retention, and manipulation and gamers are too stupid to even see how bad the current state of gaming is. There are so many good games available today. That's not the problem. It's all the stuff in between: the greed and manipulative, regressive tactics that have infected everything.

 

[01011001]

The state of multiplayer games is really bad right now. That's just a horrible system. Add to that having cross play forced on us so controller users are at a disadvantage right from the beginning of every match. Back in the days of Halo 2/3/mw2/black ops as a console player I don't remember having such a hard time finding matches versus only other console players. Now, if I want to be able to find matches quickly I'm forced to play against m+k players. Try turning cross play off in Halo Infinite/mw2/or bf 2042 and see how that works out.

The issue over sbmm that you talked about is another similar aspect of how it's all about profit, retention, and manipulation and gamers are too stupid to even see how bad the current state of gaming is. There are so many good games available today. That's not the problem. It's all the stuff in between: the greed and manipulative, regressive tactics that have infected everything.

controller is currently dominating in almost all mainstream shooters in esports.

controller is not an issue against Mouse players.

the Halo devs Literally had to assure Mouse players just a few days ago that they will improve the game for them because they get dominated by Controller.

in Apex Legends just recently almost 85% of all pro players switched to controller because controller is dominating the scene.

in CoD basically all pro players play controller.

also in both Halo and CoD you can play Mouse and Keyboard on console.


the real dividing factor is the game performance. in Fortnite and CoD it isn't much of an issue since both have 120fps options on the newest consoles, but in Apex Legends it would be devastating if they ever made PC crossplay with Consoles by default because performance in Apex on console is still really bad, we are talking locked to 60fps with drops to the low 50s on PS5 (haven't played on SX in a while, no idea if it's better there)

so IMO being against crossplay because of the controller vs mouse split holds no water as Controller is currently seen as the input method to go with if you wanna compete in a bunch of the biggest shooters.
in Fortnite it's a more even split between Controller and Mouse I think, but even there some of the more prolific players have been controller players in that game too.

 

[fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon]

 

[kikkis]

I couldn't play the beta. I am interested in the opinions from the players that absolutely loved mw 2019 but didn't really care for the BO or vanguard. Ofc others are free to chime in as well.

 

[TheGecko]

These sweats complaining about sbmm

They don't like getting dealt with but wanna go into low skilled lobby's to feel good about themselves.

 

[01011001]

These sweats complaining about sbmm

They don't like getting dealt with but wanna go into low skilled lobby's to feel good about themselves.

so you didn't read how TrueSkill 2 works then? TrueSkill 2 literally puts you in low skill lobbies to make you feel good and artificially will give you easy wins. and after that it will stick you into a match with braindead trammates and sweatty enemies to force a loss.

that's how TrueSkill 2 works, it's dsigned to manipulate matches

it is also the reason social features are taken away. have you noticed that they took out the possibility to stay in the same lobby? well, they can't manipulate your matches effectively if you did that.
the same happened with Halo, social features gone, lobbies gone, in the name of TrueSkill 2 and letting it manipulate matches.

ignorance is a bliss tho I guess, and people that write shit like what you did also out themselves as casuals btw, because mediocre casuals will not really notice this, because it's designed for exactly that kind of player, the one who's not really that good and skill swings of enemies and teammates from one match to the next will be less noticeable.

 

[TheKratos]

Meh I'm fine with the sbmm, sometimes i gotta sweat, sometimes I can stomp. Nice change of pace. I think that's what they're going for. It's boring if you go every game with 30+ kills in TDM and have easy wins. Sometimes gotta sqeat with 20k and close wins.

I do love to see the change in playstyle though, 1 game you see the camping duckwalking "noob" next game you see the bunny hopping wannbe "sweat". It's a funny contrast.

 

[GenericUser]

so you didn't read how TrueSkill 2 works then? TrueSkill 2 literally puts you in low skill lobbies to make you feel good and artificially will give you easy wins. and after that it will stick you into a match with braindead trammates and sweatty enemies to force a loss.

that's how TrueSkill 2 works, it's dsigned to manipulate matches

it is also the reason social features are taken away. have you noticed that they took out the possibility to stay in the same lobby? well, they can't manipulate your matches effectively if you did that.
the same happened with Halo, social features gone, lobbies gone, in the name of TrueSkill 2 and letting it manipulate matches.

ignorance is a bliss tho I guess, and people that write shit like what you did also out themselves as casuals btw, because mediocre casuals will not really notice this, because it's designed for exactly that kind of player, the one who's not really that good and skill swings of enemies and teammates from one match to the next will be less noticeable.

You know, Installed Cod 4 MW (remastered) the other day to see how matchmaking differs. Boy oh boy, night and day experience. I get washed in MW4 as well but it doesn't feel nearly as sweaty as MW2 (2022). There is just something inherently flawed with their new matchmaking system that really keeps me from playing the new games at all. It's the same experience over and over again. You sweat, you might win a match, you get punished for giving your best by being put in a ESL pro league lobby. You get washed a couple of matches, rinse and repeat.

 

[Mephisto40]

A launch trailer 3 weeks before the game launches?

 

[fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon]

A launch trailer 3 weeks before the game launches?

I wondered if they’ll announce the date for early access to the sp campaign.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I am in no way a good player in fact im below average probably a 1.2 kda.

Surely that means you're above average?

 

[01011001]

Surely that means you're above average?

a KD of below 2 in CoD is generally considered to be not great

 

[01011001]

You know, Installed Cod 4 MW (remastered) the other day to see how matchmaking differs. Boy oh boy, night and day experience. I get washed in MW4 as well but it doesn't feel nearly as sweaty as MW2 (2022). There is just something inherently flawed with their new matchmaking system that really keeps me from playing the new games at all. It's the same experience over and over again. You sweat, you might win a match, you get punished for giving your best by being put in a ESL pro league lobby. You get washed a couple of matches, rinse and repeat.

this system seems to be proven to keep the average player engaged for longer.
the system is designed for casual players that aren't particularly great, nor extremely bad... just average to sub par.

and at that level it apparently feels more even, but players that are especially bad or especially good at games that use True Skill 2 will have a really bad time.
you'll swing from easily winning to being completely steamrolled every few matches.

and if you suck at the game you will have one match where your team basically wins for you and then another match where noone on your team will have a chance.

if you're completely average you will have a close match winning, and a close match losing as your teammates and enemies will be almost equally as average as you.
you will get fucked if you randomly win too many times in a row tho, as then the system will pit you against high skill people to make you lose


edit: here's how the life of someone (me) who's decently good at halo looks like when True Skill 2 kicks in.

I am kinda proud that I still won this match tbh, but the game certainly tried to make me lose. you can bet your ass tho that the next match didn't go as well for me lol,
because you can only do so much to carry a shitty team that the game purposefully gave you in oder to make you lose.

notice how the worst player in the enemy team is basically as good (arguably better since less deaths) as the best player on my team... FUN!

 

[clarky]

Surely that means you're above average?

How so?

KDA is kills/deaths/assists. not kill death/average unless it means something different in cod, in which case great.

 

[clarky]

a KD of below 2 in CoD is generally considered to be not great

See what happens when you hit 50? Its coming to you all lol.

Hitting 3-4 KD one one match then 0.5 a few games after is not a good system.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I wondered if they’ll announce the date for early access to the sp campaign.

Its Oct 20th for those who preordered

 

[01011001]

See what happens when you hit 50? Its coming to you all lol.

NEVER! *laughs in 2.4KD in Apex*

 

[clarky]

this system seems to be proven to keep the average player engaged for longer.
the system is designed for casual players that aren't particularly great, nor extremely bad... just average to sub par.

and at that level it apparently feels more even, but players that are especially bad or especially good at games that use True Skill 2 will have a really bad time.
you'll swing from easily winning to being completely steamrolled every few matches.

Reporting from the below average trenches. It absolutely does not feel more even, i expect my experience is the same as yours , just at a lower level. The notion that its designed to keep the average player engaged for longer is not correct, in my experience anyway, well maybe it is but it doesn't work

The nirvana of averageness doesn't exist im sorry to say.


Its just a bad system full stop.

 

[clarky]

NEVER! *laughs in 2.4KD in Apex*

Shame Halo shit the bed im miles better at non twitch shooters.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon]

Its Oct 20th for those who preordered

Oh I did not know this! Thank you

 

[Mr.ODST]

Do I buy on Xbox or PS5 .... dayummmm

 

[fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon]

Aaron Pierce from 24!!!!!

 

[clarky]

Do I buy on Xbox or PS5 .... dayummmm

It doesn't really matter these days the game is exactly the same and you can play with friends regardless.

All down to which controller you prefer, ill be on xbox or pc because i cant live without backpaddles. Probably pc so i can play away from home.

Edit: Actually hyped for COD for the first time in a very long time. Beta was solid and its a good move releasing the SP a week "early".

 

[01011001]

Do I buy on Xbox or PS5 .... dayummmm

Xbox runs smoother so far... but the game has crossplay, cross progression and keyboard support on either

 

[Mr Reasonable]

How so?

KDA is kills/deaths/assists. not kill death/average unless it means something different in cod, in which case great.

I thought call of duty tracked kd, not kda, I'm not an avid player but I just checked my stats and it looks a lot like kd is the number presented, no mention of assists, but I may have it wrong.

 

[clarky]

I thought call of duty tracked kd, not kda, I'm not an avid player but I just checked my stats and it looks a lot like kd is the number presented, no mention of assists, but I may have it wrong.

Not played for a while so Just checked. your absolutely correct it is only KD in COD, im that used to seeing Kills/deaths/assists in Halo & Destiny.

KDA is still kills/deaths/assist which is a bonus, as now im a 1.2 KD player and therefore slightly less shit than i thought.

 

[kikkis]

Do I buy on Xbox or PS5 .... dayummmm

I would get ps5, if you have game pass and believe acquisition goes through and cods go to game pass.

 

[Caio]

 

[Bragr]

Ah man, please don't try to be too political or offer "different perspectives".