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Mortal Kombat 8 REVEALED IN ALL ITS GLOR...wait, what is this?

Anyanka

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
What baffles me is how people can call the recent games shitty while still praising the originals. The original MK games (YES EVEN MK2) were unbalanced and broken. The controls were passable but more than a little stiff in some aspects.

I'm curious as to what charges can be levied against the recent games that wouldn't apply equally strongly against the originals besides "I'm tired of MK" or "this isn't precisely the same game I played in my youth".


The new games are worse then just unbalanced and broken. They're also horribly outdated. I mean MKA came out in 2006 and has no throw escapes.
 

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Worst announcement of the year. OH GOD!!! THE HORROR!!! Now the bike stealing kids hanging out at arcades of yesteryear will awaken from their slumber.
 

NeonZ

Member
I'm curious as to what charges can be levied against the recent games that wouldn't apply equally strongly against the originals besides "I'm tired of MK" or "this isn't precisely the same game I played in my youth".


The current games are slower than the older ones. I usually don't care much about speed, but the post attack lag for nearly everything in the MKA games is really annoying.

They're also horribly outdated. I mean MKA came out in 2006 and has no throw escapes.

IIRC, you can "parry" a throw. Of course, MKA's parry is utterly stupid, not working for air attacks and having start up lag.
 

fernoca

Member
Well, was working from 3PM till past midnight... :p

SapientWolf said:
Street Fighter 2 alone outsold every MK game combined.
First sentence (the one you bolded) was refering to the overall mindset of the current games (lolol MK sucks, I'm not going to buy it because is for casuals and it only sells to casuals hahahaha). Obviously SFII outsold it, back then..yet SFIII wasn't a big seller (it didn't helped that it was released only on the Dreamcast back then. On that system Soulcalibur and Dead or Alive II outsold Street Fighter III and Mortal Kombat Gold).

Dali said:
Maybe... Maybe... in the U.S., but total worldwide sales? I'd like to see some numbers as I'm pretty sure for all intents and purposes, MK doesn't even exist in Japan.

***LIST***

Only million+ games were listed and I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I think this at least calls into question your "never had any problems outselling them" claim.
The problem with that list is that it combines US sales, with worldwide sales (Dark Resurrection, DOA4 numbers are worldwide..at least that was what Namco and Tecmo announced back then)..plus that list includes the number of when that game was included into the list...for many of the "old" games, the numbers were never updated. Not to mention, Mortal Kombat "may not exist" in Japan (though it was distributed by Koei)..but it still sells extremely well across Europe.

In the case of (the recent) Mortal Kombat games (worldwide):

Deadly Alliance: 5.5 million
-PS2 (US): 2.0 million
-XBX (US): 1.5 million
-GCN (US): 0.5 million
-GBA (US): 0.3 million
-Multi (Etc.): 1.2 million

Deception: 3.7 million
-PS2 (US): 1.5 million
-XBX (US): 0.9 million
-GCN (US): 0.3 million
-Multi (Etc.): 1.0 million

Shaolin Monks: 1.9 million
-PS2 (US): 0.6 million
-XBX (US): 0.3 million
-Multi (Etc.): 1.0 million

Armageddon: 2.7 million
-PS2 (US): 1.1 million
-XBX (US): 0.5 million
-Wii (US): 0.2 million
-Multi (Etc.): 1.0 million

No link though, since it's from an old '.pdf file' ..updated a few numbers based on numbers from various MK sites though.

Plus my "never had any problems outselling them claim"..was more directed to the whole idea around here that "because Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter are the "better" games..they sell a lot, and that because MK sucks, it probably is a bomb..and noone knows why they continue making sequels of it."...

Some seem to forget that the "Godsend" that many consider Virtua Fighter 5 around here, was greatly ignored by even the "hardcore" gamers...and that was across 2 platforms....

Again, I'm not saying that "sales >> quality", all I'm saying is that some seem to ignore that Mortal Kombat is still a relatively big seller inside the "fighting genre" (and outside it too as Shaolin Monks and even Mythologies show..Special Forces, bombed though..) and that there's a reason as to why they continue making games based on it..not to mention that the whole claim that "people buy it for the violence and blood has been denied, when around 50% of the online matches for both Deception and Armageddon were played with blood, fatalities and death traps turned off...

When in general people usually buy MK games because of the characters (Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Liu Kang, etc..)..heck, many bought Shaolin Monks just because of the Inferno Scorpion boss..
 

Anyanka

Member
MK fans care about more then blood. That's true. The art and story are just as important. Of course it's terrible character designs and poorly written so that's not really any better.

There is bad lag after moves. IIRC no moves give frame advantage, even on hit. It certainly feels that way.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
What baffles me is how people can call the recent games shitty while still praising the originals. The original MK games (YES EVEN MK2) were unbalanced and broken. The controls were passable but more than a little stiff in some aspects.

I'm curious as to what charges can be levied against the recent games that wouldn't apply equally strongly against the originals besides "I'm tired of MK" or "this isn't precisely the same game I played in my youth".
Basicly the old ones could hold their ground against other better fighters while still being unbalanced or broken.
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i know i sort of flippantly joked about it earlier in the thread, but an appearance by rorschach in an almost noob saibot role would be nasty in the pasty.
 
Prime crotch said:
Basicly the old ones could hold their ground against other better fighters while still being unbalanced or broken.
I think if you took away the hype of being the "It" fighting franchise at the time, you'd find those games didn't hold up any better against Street Fighter 2 then than MK: DA holds up against its contemporaries.

It could be equally said that both the old MK and the new MK are definitely outclassed by their contemporaries, yet they're both still pretty fun (particularly for newcomers to the genre). You just got brainwashed by marketing on one and not the other.
 

Anyanka

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
I think if you took away the hype of being the "It" fighting franchise at the time, you'd find those games didn't hold up any better against Street Fighter 2 then than MK: DA holds up against its contemporaries.


No way. MKDA was extremely outdated and poorly designed. No wakeup game, nonsensical tracking and throwing mechanics, guaranteed canned strings, along with the other MKDA-MKA engine problems like how stupid the stance and weapon systems are. It was a joke in 2002.

In 1993 MK II was not as good as Capcom's games but neither was anything else back then. MK II is comparable to SNK's early games and it actually had something different going for it. Everybody forgets how innovative the juggles were back then. MK II feels totally different from SF II and has it's own combo mechanics, unlike MKDA which is a very crappy DOA/Tekken/VF.
 

fernoca

Member
Kinda agree with Segata...
Is like some people can't accept the idea that some may have "fun" playing this game. That it is because of it's "simplicity" most of the reason as to why it is well received with people in general. It's an easy to pick up fighter, that doesn't require or rely in "deepness" and strategy..just the fun of beating the crap out of the other while looking cool doing it (there was nothing cooler in Armageddon than starting a normal combo on the ground, continue it on the air and then slamming the character to the ground..among other things)....

It's community or fanbase kinda helps too..
On MK, people in general just play for the fun of it..while for the other fighters; is like there's this mindset among a few that you can't be a button masher, you need to play with no items on Final Destination :)p), or you have this few elitists that have like a trillion victories with one character, but plainly suck with any other one...I mean, every time I bring the point that I've finished every Virtua Fighter game with the same character (Pai) doing the same combo, I get called things; like I'm playing the game wrong, or that "that's not the point of the game", etc...while in MK there's technically no "wrong" ..just pick a character, fight and that's it..no "Oh the hitboxes", of "oh, the transitions", "or the animations"...

Some seem to forget, that the reason we even played this fighters (Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat) over a decade ago, was to have fun..being excited about the possibilities of sequels, seeing Chun Li throwing a fireball (out of nowhere) for the first time, or doing the nearly infinite Kitana fan swift combos....not because of how "deep" they were back then or how broken one was compared to the other...
 

Anyanka

Member
fernoca said:
It's community or fanbase kinda helps too..
On MK, people in general just play for the fun of it..while for the other fighters; is like there's this mindset among a few that you can't be a button masher, you need to play with no items on Final Destination :)p), or you have this few elitists that have like a trillion victories with one character, but plainly suck with any other one...I mean, every time I bring the point that I've finished every Virtua Fighter game with the same character (Pai) doing the same combo, I get called things; like I'm playing the game wrong, or that "that's not the point of the game", etc...while in MK there's technically no "wrong" ..just pick a character, fight and that's it..no "Oh the hitboxes", of "oh, the transitions", "or the animations"...



Why do you care what these few say? There's nothing stopping you from playing Tekken or VF however you want. The majority of the players of those games are casual. Even most Neogaf posters are.

MKDA-MKA are barely any more simple then the better games. The gameplay systems are similar, other games just do everything better. If you can do a string in MKDA you can do one in DOA. If you can throw in MKDA you can throw in VF. If MKDA was some kind of crazy party game that offered something the others don't this "the simplicity is good!" would be a better point. This isn't like how Mario Kart is not as deep and well designed as Gran Turismo but it's not trying to be. Notice nobody ever hates Powerstone?

People have a hard time accepting that it's fun because no MK fan can ever explain why. All we ever get from you guys is "it's just fun" and playing martyr. Everytime MK comes up you're quick to rush in and defend it but all you can ever say is "it's fun!!!!" and complain about what some VF players said. You play a game you admit has inferior gameplay. How do you think we're going to react?

I mean come on. You play it for the MK brand.
 
Anyanka said:
If you can do a string in MKDA you can do one in DOA. If you can throw in MKDA you can throw in VF.

Here's the difference, in MK you'll always be doing the same string and that's what the entire game revolves around. Hell, I'm pretty sure the optimum way to play is to pick Kabal, interrupt your opponents strings with his hurricane dash then hit the same optimum damage string. In DoA, VF, or Tekken however you're putting yourself at risk whenever you use a string, if you keep doing the same one you'll loose against any experienced player, in MK it's your only option. Oh, and in MK you just hold back, down and block to avoid throwing, your opponent should very get the chance to do it.

I'm not saying you can't enjoy it, but you can enjoy other fighters on a different level.
 
Anyanka said:
Why do you care what these few say? There's nothing stopping you from playing Tekken or VF however you want. The majority of the players of those games are casual. Even most Neogaf posters are.

MKDA-MKA are barely any more simple then the better games. The gameplay systems are similar, other games just do everything better. If you can do a string in MKDA you can do one in DOA. If you can throw in MKDA you can throw in VF. If MKDA was some kind of crazy party game that offered something the others don't this "the simplicity is good!" would be a better point. This isn't like how Mario Kart is not as deep and well designed as Gran Turismo but it's not trying to be. Notice nobody ever hates Powerstone?

People have a hard time accepting that it's fun because no MK fan can ever explain why. All we ever get from you guys is "it's just fun" and playing martyr. Everytime MK comes up you're quick to rush in and defend it but all you can ever say is "it's fun!!!!" and complain about what some VF players said. You play a game you admit has inferior gameplay. How do you think we're going to react?

I mean come on. You play it for the MK brand.
Except I don't have any special fondness for the "MK brand". And had Powerstone carried on, I think you would have seen "haters" come out of the woodwork. Instead it suffered the far worse fate of being completely and utterly forgotten. I mean, fuck, even Smash Bros. has haters.

This is literally the first time I've defended MK on GAF, so I don't know how you're saying I run in and yell "IT'S FON FON FON". I'm just saying the recent games aren't any more broken, unbalanced, or shitty than the originals. And you know what? The originals were just that - Broken, unbalanced, and shitty. All they had going for them were the graphics, interesting characters, and the gore. MK1- MK4 were fucking terrible games. Even the holy cow MK2. Yes, I enjoyed it when it was out and hot just like anyone my age, but any belief in the quality of MK2 quickly dissipated for me when I played it again last year. It's awful, just like the rest of 2D MK.

MK: DA and its offspring are solid but not remarkable in any way. They are unbalanced and broken. They are fun in multiplayer and at least have extra modes to make up for the classically awful MK single player. Obviously if all you care to play in the fighting genre is the best of the best, then you're going to want to skip them. They are not in the top tier. They are not in the second tier. But they are not without merit.

I just see the hate for recent MK games on GAF as yet another symptom of the tendency on this board to hate anything that isn't the creme-de-la-creme in its genre. Which is fine, I suppose, but it means everyone plays the same damn games while a bunch of other decent and different games get tossed out with the bathwater of their flaws.
 

Anyanka

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
This is literally the first time I've defended MK on GAF, so I don't know how you're saying I run in and yell "IT'S FON FON FON". I'm just saying the recent games aren't any more broken, unbalanced, or shitty than the originals. And you know what? The originals were just that - Broken, unbalanced, and shitty. All they had going for them were the graphics, interesting characters, and the gore. MK1- MK4 were fucking terrible games. Even the holy cow MK2. Yes, I enjoyed it when it was out and hot just like anyone my age, but any belief in the quality of MK2 quickly dissipated for me when I played it again last year. It's awful, just like the rest of 2D MK.

MK: DA and its offspring are solid but not remarkable in any way. They are unbalanced and broken. They are fun in multiplayer and at least have extra modes to make up for the classically awful MK single player. Obviously if all you care to play in the fighting genre is the best of the best, then you're going to want to skip them. They are not in the top tier. They are not in the second tier. But they are not without merit.
.



Um I wasn't talking to you.

The 2D MK games did have more to offer then the new ones. I gave you a great example. The new ones are not JUST unbalanced and broken, they're outdated too. I gave you examples. MKDA's throw mechanics are from like the Tekken 1/VF1 era. actually worse since they're blockable and there's only one per character. That's not solid.


Here's the difference, in MK you'll always be doing the same string and that's what the entire game revolves around. Hell, I'm pretty sure the optimum way to play is to pick Kabal, interrupt your opponents strings with his hurricane dash then hit the same optimum damage string. In DoA, VF, or Tekken however you're putting yourself at risk whenever you use a string, if you keep doing the same one you'll loose against any experienced player, in MK it's your only option. Oh, and in MK you just hold back, down and block to avoid throwing, your opponent should very get the chance to do it.


What?. After that move the opponent can't do anything, that's like the equivalent of hitting a launcher in Tekken. The combo after is free no matter what. Throwing out strings normally in MKDA-A is not safe.

You can't block throws after MKDA.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I think if you took away the hype of being the "It" fighting franchise at the time, you'd find those games didn't hold up any better against Street Fighter 2 then than MK: DA holds up against its contemporaries.

It could be equally said that both the old MK and the new MK are definitely outclassed by their contemporaries, yet they're both still pretty fun (particularly for newcomers to the genre). You just got brainwashed by marketing on one and not the other.
It did hold up against the other fighters, when it came out MKII was a refined product and not as outdated as Deadly Alliance was at it's time of release. What did MKII had agaisnt it back in 93 aside SFII? SNK only put out Samurai Shodown II in like early 95 what else they had? Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting?
The problem is that while those games evolved and changed to better, MK's mentality has stayed the same way for decades and that just doesn't cut it anymore.
 

fernoca

Member
Anyanka said:
Why do you care what these few say? There's nothing stopping you from playing Tekken or VF however you want. The majority of the players of those games are casual. Even most Neogaf posters are.

MKDA-MKA are barely any more simple then the better games. The gameplay systems are similar, other games just do everything better. If you can do a string in MKDA you can do one in DOA. If you can throw in MKDA you can throw in VF. If MKDA was some kind of crazy party game that offered something the others don't this "the simplicity is good!" would be a better point. This isn't like how Mario Kart is not as deep and well designed as Gran Turismo but it's not trying to be. Notice nobody ever hates Powerstone?

People have a hard time accepting that it's fun because no MK fan can ever explain why. All we ever get from you guys is "it's just fun" and playing martyr. Everytime MK comes up you're quick to rush in and defend it but all you can ever say is "it's fun!!!!" and complain about what some VF players said. You play a game you admit has inferior gameplay. How do you think we're going to react?

I mean come on. You play it for the MK brand.
Well, Segata already said what I wanted and with a better english than mine.. :p ..but still, why do I have to defend or give/list facts as to why I consider MK "fun"??..I've listed before in the many MK threads....that is a combination of the characters, the simplicity (i.e. dial-a-combo as many say, or how I can win fights by doing simple combos and special moves), the story, fighting in the air, the special moves..and so on..yet, for every thing I list..for every thing I get quoted around here..and even more funny, when all that is in Mortal Kombat threads. If I popped around any other fighter-thread talking about "Mortal Combat am awesome" it would be ok for people to quote me and ask "for evidence"....but the fact that I have to "defend" why I like Mortal Kombat..on Mortal Kombat threads doesn't even make sense.

But whatever..I do play many fighters..I've owned/played every Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive, Tekken, Soulcalibur; since day one....unlike the many around here that started VF with VF4 on PS2...or Street Fighter with Anniversary Collection, or how I had Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and Third Strike on Dreamcast..instead of waiting years to play it on other consoles, because "the Dreamcast suxored"..or how some people look at me weird when I talk about the "Victory scenes" in the first SFIII game, when they never saw them (because all they did was play Third Strike..even ignoring that there were 2 prior versions of SFIII)..I mean, I do play many fighters..I just prefer Mortal Kombat..call it nostalgia, fun, fanboyism..or whatever..

Heck, you were the one that owned basically everything MK related at some point (even the arcade cabinets) and sold nearly everything, and started slamming every MK-post Deadly Alliance..so I don't know why you act as if I was some weird thing because I like MK (on nearly every MK thread), when you even spent more money on it than me.
 

Anyanka

Member
I didn't sell anything. I even bought MKA, just not useless junk like UMK3 on DS. I'll try MK vs. DC Universe.

I don't think it's WEIRD that you like it, I think it's bad taste, low standards and ignorance. I used to be the same way so I understand. Still look down on it though.
 

NeonZ

Member
I actually liked MKA, but it was mostly due to the character creator and other extras, not the fighting engine itself. I really don't like the comic bookish aesthetic they've taken since Deadly Alliance and the heavy lag after attacks (there's even a brief moment where it's possible to move around, but not attack), but I thought the character creator was really good.

The visual options were limited, but the customization of fighting style worked fairly well and kept me entertained. Wrestling games have vastly superior visual options, but making the character's visual only to see 'it' fighting like a random wrestler isn't a very appealing prospect.

Setting up the stances, normal attacks and special attacks of the characters was really satisfying to me, especially when trying to recreate characters from other franchises rather than original ones. Obviously, that kind of customization broke online gaming, but for personal use it was great. The biggest problems were the lack of several special attacks and the poor options for weapon styles (well, and the ugly female body type), but I was hoping the sequel would fix those. However, I guess there's a high chance they won't even include a character creator in this one.
 

Jirotrom

Member
Anyanka said:
I didn't sell anything. I even bought MKA, just not useless junk like UMK3 on DS. I'll try MK vs. DC Universe.

I don't think it's WEIRD that you like it, I think it's bad taste, low standards and ignorance. I used to be the same way so I understand. Still look down on it though.
now you just sound like an ass... I honestly agree with everything Segata has stated, I don't understand what your deal is. You assume that everyone has to have your taste and just can't accept that people may enjoy something you dont. I fucking hate beer but you don't ever see me going around telling folks they are drinking piss water, and have no sense of taste.

I honestly havent liked an MK since MK2 and I have gone back to play them and thy are terrible games to me now. The thing is I enjoyed them when they were released as much as people still enjoy them now.
 
Anyanka said:
What?. After that move the opponent can't do anything, that's like the equivalent of hitting a launcher in Tekken. The combo after is free no matter what.

You block the first attacks in the string, you use the special to interrupt it between attacks when you can because it's so freaking fast at close range.

You can't block throws after MKDA.

Can you escape them at all?
 

NeonZ

Member
Can you escape them at all?

As I've said, the parry works against them in MKA, but it's hard to get it to work due to the starting lag of MKA's parry.

You can also use that automatic counter thing that can be used to break combos thrice per fight to get out of some throws.
 

RiZ III

Member
dcmkbk1.jpg


rockrockox4.gif
 
i honestly dont think the trailer is all that bad, some parts actually look fair. i think the problem is that we already KNOW that this game will suck so much ass like the last kombat games. But just judging the trailer itself and what was shown, if i didnt know what the hell mortal kombat(or midway)was, id be a bit interested.

i wounldnt get too excited either way though, since it couldnt be better than sf3 or tekken5 :D
 
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