I loved Noah. It was a Hodge podge of gloriously batshit ideas that worked I thought.
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Mother (Darren Aronofsky) - early reviews from Venice
- Thread starter shaneo632
- Start date
I loved Noah. It was a Hodge podge of gloriously batshit ideas that worked I thought.
More_Badass
Member
You and me both, my showing's at 1. Pretty excited. Have no idea if I'll like this but I got to see it
I saw Cure for Wellness last year, which was also marketed as a weird surreal thriller/horror thing, and that was great for the first 2/3rds and then fell off a cliff
So we'll see if this is that or a Witch for me
I think it's worth noting that bibically, there will be a new heaven and a new earth once this world is destroyed. I think the ending of the film captures that cynical cycle of creation, destruction, and creation.
But on another note, while I find the bible/god/earth/humanity allegories interesting, I found myself much more compelled by the allegory of the tortured/narcissistic artist using his life experience as fodder for his work. In 2017, we have celebrities letting fans inside every moment of their lives. In fact that was the interpretation I took in the quickest, and the one that continues to resonate with me. That is what makes the film feel so personal.
Through social media, and reality tv, and tabloids, and TMZ, we have direct access to artists and people of fame. And it's instant access. Showing up at their house before they even know it. The privacy of a great artist is no longer sacred, in fact the transparency of sharing themselves with the fans and merging their work with their private life, creating a brand, has become more important than the art that they create. So not only do I want your book or movie or album, I want to see video and photos of your wedding, your children, your home. You have a secret closet housing something that is only for your eyes? Nope, I want that too. I want your darkest secrets, I want your sex tapes and nude photos, I want your shame and humiliation. I want your heart and soul.
I'm reminded of Beyonce's most critically praised album being the one where she shares being cheated on, and Jay-z in return creating his "most personal" album filled to the brim with secrets and revelations of his private life.
After directing depressing and personal films like The Wrestler, Black Swan, and Requiem, Darren has arrived at a place of pessimism, where fans expect more, more, more, and to please them he has to truly rip everything personal and private out of him to present to them. And I feel it's that way for many (male) writers.
They don't live life.
They don't appreciate moments.
They scour through life looking for moments they can strip for parts to make something greater.
They can experience one of the happiest moments of their life, the birth of a child, or the most mind blowing lovemaking ever, or a intimate conversation, or a belly full of laughter with friends, or a beautiful sunset while on vacation, but instead of enjoying it, they have to run off to write down their thoughts because the moment inspired them rather than fulfilled them.
And it leads to them alienating family, often their wives, builder of their homes, mothers of their children, who wonder why they aren't enough to make them happy, why they would rather lock themselves in a room for days on end rather than have breakfast with them, enjoy a nice dinner, or fuck them.
Why is the admiration of strangers more important than the admiration of the one you chose to build a life with?
Why must you take the happiness and love and pain of our home, and curate it to create your magnum opus?
Why is it so important for you to give the public our lives, the pain and joy of it all, for them to consume? Literal public consumption of everything that you value.
Usually, a Darren film is from the POV of the artist, or the entertainer who destroys themselves in order to give that great work or performance. But this time, it's from the POV of the women that love and build with those creators and entertainers, who then become destroyed by their lovers obsession and ambition to create and please strangers. The men willing to sacrifice their homes for the artistry and or fame.
It's a devastating portrait. And ugly and cynical but I can't say that it doesn't often ring true.
But on another note, while I find the bible/god/earth/humanity allegories interesting, I found myself much more compelled by the allegory of the tortured/narcissistic artist using his life experience as fodder for his work. In 2017, we have celebrities letting fans inside every moment of their lives. In fact that was the interpretation I took in the quickest, and the one that continues to resonate with me. That is what makes the film feel so personal.
Through social media, and reality tv, and tabloids, and TMZ, we have direct access to artists and people of fame. And it's instant access. Showing up at their house before they even know it. The privacy of a great artist is no longer sacred, in fact the transparency of sharing themselves with the fans and merging their work with their private life, creating a brand, has become more important than the art that they create. So not only do I want your book or movie or album, I want to see video and photos of your wedding, your children, your home. You have a secret closet housing something that is only for your eyes? Nope, I want that too. I want your darkest secrets, I want your sex tapes and nude photos, I want your shame and humiliation. I want your heart and soul.
I'm reminded of Beyonce's most critically praised album being the one where she shares being cheated on, and Jay-z in return creating his "most personal" album filled to the brim with secrets and revelations of his private life.
After directing depressing and personal films like The Wrestler, Black Swan, and Requiem, Darren has arrived at a place of pessimism, where fans expect more, more, more, and to please them he has to truly rip everything personal and private out of him to present to them. And I feel it's that way for many (male) writers.
They don't live life.
They don't appreciate moments.
They scour through life looking for moments they can strip for parts to make something greater.
They can experience one of the happiest moments of their life, the birth of a child, or the most mind blowing lovemaking ever, or a intimate conversation, or a belly full of laughter with friends, or a beautiful sunset while on vacation, but instead of enjoying it, they have to run off to write down their thoughts because the moment inspired them rather than fulfilled them.
And it leads to them alienating family, often their wives, builder of their homes, mothers of their children, who wonder why they aren't enough to make them happy, why they would rather lock themselves in a room for days on end rather than have breakfast with them, enjoy a nice dinner, or fuck them.
Why is the admiration of strangers more important than the admiration of the one you chose to build a life with?
Why must you take the happiness and love and pain of our home, and curate it to create your magnum opus?
Why is it so important for you to give the public our lives, the pain and joy of it all, for them to consume? Literal public consumption of everything that you value.
Usually, a Darren film is from the POV of the artist, or the entertainer who destroys themselves in order to give that great work or performance. But this time, it's from the POV of the women that love and build with those creators and entertainers, who then become destroyed by their lovers obsession and ambition to create and please strangers. The men willing to sacrifice their homes for the artistry and or fame.
It's a devastating portrait. And ugly and cynical but I can't say that it doesn't often ring true.
that's neat. i dont watch television in the normal sense so i don't see ads for a lot of stuff. reminds me of the old 40's/50's horror films.
Monocle
Member
Seriously. I saw one trailer and read a couple of quotes about mother! from critics and that's all it took to figure out I was going to get something other than a traditional horror/thriller.
If undiscerning people are blindsided by what this film throws at them, good. Between It Comes at Night, Annabelle: Creation, IT, and so on, horror fans have a ridiculously diverse spread to dig into this year. And it's not even October yet. Heaven forbid general audiences have to put up with one well made, well acted, well directed yet unconventional movie that invites them to think for themselves.
It's not even a challenging movie if you stay long enough to read the cast credits. The
biblical
Trumpets
Member
I thought it was OK but could probably lose half an hour from the more 'sensible' part of the film and get to the nutty stuff earlier, like High Rise did. The two hours dragged a bit for me.
Clearly heavily metaphorical, but I doubt it's a direct metaphor to any one thing in particular, but rather DA had several ideas in his head and squished them all together to create this peculiar, slightly hysterical thing.
Clearly heavily metaphorical, but I doubt it's a direct metaphor to any one thing in particular, but rather DA had several ideas in his head and squished them all together to create this peculiar, slightly hysterical thing.
Studios shouldn't be pissed when the backlash occurs then.
Sometimes it works out, like Get Out. Sometimes it doesn't, It Comes at Night.
JigglesBunny
Banned
That garish PR is usually so off the mark but it's really honest in this case. I never forgot the first time I saw The Shining, I never forgot the first time I saw Martyrs and Lake Mungo, I'll never forget the first time I saw this.
Messofanego
Banned
lol
Monocle
Member
She is pure class. Awesome casting.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
More_Badass
Member
It's me and abut six old people in the theater. Should be interesting
Turbo Killer
Member
Seriously beautiful and really amazing in this movie.
The old ladies hated during my showing.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Sounds like the showing I went to last evening.
show me your skeleton
Member
reminds me of the time i saw closer. was great watching them walk out during the sexing part.
Violence Jack
Member
It was about 15 in my showing, and none of the old people around us liked it nor would they shut the fuck up.
I had old people who would not stop checking their phones. Like, everyone can see it, dude.
Turbo Killer
Member
Holy shit, same here and I thought teens were bad with talking.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
I'm afraid to watch this with an audience.
90% of the audience is almost guaranteed to hate it.
Im so stoked for this movie based on the intensity of these reactions, good and bad.
Audience score will probably drop like a rock over the weekend as more of the general audience watch it.
BlackGoku03
Member
Does anyone know where I can find the trailer they showed in theaters? It literally said you'd want your money back lol. Can't seem to find it to show off.
Kind of looked like
a lung
organ, since Him covered up a wound while he was throwing up.
It can be fun to hear such anger after a movie you've liked or loved.
Don'tBeWeird
Member
Just got out of the cinema.
Fuck me. What did I just watch. I need to be alone for a while.
Fuck me. What did I just watch. I need to be alone for a while.
More_Badass
Member
Huh...yeah. That was...something....
Edit:
Edit2:
So, that was meant to be an allegory on religion? At least that's how I took it. The creator, paradise/garden of eden, Cain and Abel, then people begin to follow him and his ideas, and then slowly the religion gets twisted until it's out of control of the creator's intent and corrupted by the believers. The baby and the cannibalism being an analog for communion
Edit:
Yeah, this is a good read after watching. Caught some of that while watching
Edit2:
Oh, and "I am I" was the second most obvious sign after the cannibalism, since Yahweh means "I am"
Put very very simply, I think there are four things going on:
It's obviously much more fleshed (heh) out than that, but that's the gist of it. All of these concepts play out on top of each other, each with their own overall message or arc, but the end result is... well... y'know
1. The Artist. Stuck and uninspired. Huge narcissist and obsessed with fame more than family. Neece's summary a few posts up covers this in great detail.
2. The Bible. Creation, Adam & Eve, Cain & Able, sinners, The Great Flood, more sinners, the birth of Christ, Religion/obsession, sacrifice, etc.
3. Climate change. Mother Earth trying to keep creator's shit in order, but he's given people free will, so he doesn't intervene, and they keep fucking up their home. People scoff when she calls it HER home. People thank HIM for his hospitality. It gets out of control... first great flood happens as a warning. People return, and continue doing much worse. The world ends as oil is literally used to burn it all down.
4. Cyclical relationships/life and all that jazz. The girl in the first shot is replaced with J. Law is replaced with the new girl, is replaced with.. etc. etc.
The heart of each woman is used to build a new home, and as each heart dies, it is replaced with the next one.
2. The Bible. Creation, Adam & Eve, Cain & Able, sinners, The Great Flood, more sinners, the birth of Christ, Religion/obsession, sacrifice, etc.
3. Climate change. Mother Earth trying to keep creator's shit in order, but he's given people free will, so he doesn't intervene, and they keep fucking up their home. People scoff when she calls it HER home. People thank HIM for his hospitality. It gets out of control... first great flood happens as a warning. People return, and continue doing much worse. The world ends as oil is literally used to burn it all down.
4. Cyclical relationships/life and all that jazz. The girl in the first shot is replaced with J. Law is replaced with the new girl, is replaced with.. etc. etc.
The heart of each woman is used to build a new home, and as each heart dies, it is replaced with the next one.
It's obviously much more fleshed (heh) out than that, but that's the gist of it. All of these concepts play out on top of each other, each with their own overall message or arc, but the end result is... well... y'know
Messofanego
Banned
That was a ton of fun. It was like a mix of Zulawski and Polanski. Aronofsky knows exactly what he's doing from first to last shot, no filler just allegorical killer. It depends whether you're on for the insane ride or not.
If people are hating this, that's fine, they can stick to their safe dramas and blockbusters that don't muster any debates, uneasiness or relevancy for years to come.
If people are hating this, that's fine, they can stick to their safe dramas and blockbusters that don't muster any debates, uneasiness or relevancy for years to come.
More_Badass
Member
One guy let out an audible dawning Oh my god.... during the final scene
Everyone else in my theater hated it
I have no idea how else they could marketed this besides the horror angle without giving anything away
But it ain't a horror movie. I don't think I'd even call it a thriller. "Allegorical psychological fever dream" might be the most apt summary
Everyone else in my theater hated it
I have no idea how else they could marketed this besides the horror angle without giving anything away
But it ain't a horror movie. I don't think I'd even call it a thriller. "Allegorical psychological fever dream" might be the most apt summary
On my first watch I saw it mainly as an allegory on
.
I'm still not sure how much I actually liked the movie though. Given time to settle I think a bit higher of it than I first did. The final 30 minutes are relentless, gruelling and provocative. The first act tightens the screws and tensions beautifully, escalating the situation in classic Rosemary's Baby style.
Still, does it all hang together? I thought the second act sagged and with hindsight the first act feels like an overlong red herring. There is certainly much you can read into the first act but it almost feels like an overlong bout of misdirection once you know how it all ends up. They could probably have trimmed that first act down considerably.
the nature of creative types, their drives, their motives, their inspirations, the nature of destructive fandoms, the way they leech off a source of inspiration until dry before moving onto the next well of inspiration, the inherent self-obsession and selfishness that comes with the need to express yourself and gain acclaim etc etc.
The religious allegories certainly work too but I think I'd rather read it on a different level to just a straight retelling of biblical events. It's impressive it seems to work on so many levels though
The religious allegories certainly work too but I think I'd rather read it on a different level to just a straight retelling of biblical events. It's impressive it seems to work on so many levels though
I'm still not sure how much I actually liked the movie though. Given time to settle I think a bit higher of it than I first did. The final 30 minutes are relentless, gruelling and provocative. The first act tightens the screws and tensions beautifully, escalating the situation in classic Rosemary's Baby style.
Still, does it all hang together? I thought the second act sagged and with hindsight the first act feels like an overlong red herring. There is certainly much you can read into the first act but it almost feels like an overlong bout of misdirection once you know how it all ends up. They could probably have trimmed that first act down considerably.
More_Badass
Member
This is a movie I like more in hindsight, after reading some articles, than I did while watching it
While watching, I was mainly waiting for everything to go insane like everyone was hyping up, but I appreciate the movie a lot more with some context
While watching, I was mainly waiting for everything to go insane like everyone was hyping up, but I appreciate the movie a lot more with some context
CassidyIzABeast
Member
My thoughts:
WUT DA HELL?
WUT DA HELL?
Women's anguish as art. Dudes are really, really interested in that.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
It's more I don't want disruption during the film.
Astral Dog
Member
Sounds amazing 😃
More_Badass
Member
Oh!
So if the sons were Cain and Abel, and the parents were Adam and Eve, the crystal was essentially the apple, right? Them being tempted by it, then finally doing the forbidden act, and then being locked out of the creator's "garden of eden" where he would create.
Yup!
It even kinda looked like one, but
also looked more like a heart... considering where it came from.
Yup. And when "Adam" was in the bathroom hurting, it was because he had his rib removed.
xKilltheMx
Member
You guys have me more interested in this movie in this read than anything ever. Wow....Might watch this saturday.
So... there's a good number of people (including those in my audience on Wednesday) who think:
The woman in the first shot is Rachel Weisz. I... don't think it's her... she's not in the credits... but I think it's definitely meant to LOOK like her. Adds another layer to the personal aspect of this whole thing for Aronofsky, since he dated (married?) her before dating Jennifer Lawrence.
That's really creepy as fuck subtext when you think about it.
I didn't get the personal Aronofsky subtext, but I certainly felt like
there's subtext behind the art being a constant and the woman in the man's life being replaced once it's all burned down and starting over.
Messofanego
Banned
I don't think it's her,
. I think the first mother is Sarah-Jeanne Labrosse (maiden in credits), and the third mother is Laurence Leboeuf (foremother) at the end.
For me this is nice to hear, really not into horror at all. Not into Lawrence either tbh, but I do appreciate Aronofsky! Was on the fence if I should see this and I think I'll bite!