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[Yoboman]

There is a crossroad coming as the increase in acquisition spending has only increased and the reliance on Gamepass subscription growth (now stagnating) result in studios being judged by their inability to grow subs.

What happens when Microsoft's belief in Gamepass growth potential proves too unrealistic for what their wallet has spent?

How many devs do we lose who don't provide that bump in subs or sustain long term engagement through GAAS projects?

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Here for a better read.

 

[damidu]

what a shocking turn of events, and they are still trying to gobble up more and bigger.
wait for these morons to single handedly collapse the whole industry

 

[splattered]

Sure makes sense... Sony closes down ineffective studios themselves. If a 3rd party company doesn't perform on its own even not being under MS or Sony, they eventually shutter their doors. Did people actually think companies are automatically safe because MS has tons of money and will fund endless failure? That isn't realistic and this is a nothingburger.

 

[Chukhopops]

What happens today when a studio makes games that don’t perform well? The guys who made Saints Row 22 or Immortals of Aveum would be just as dead as they are today if they were on a sub model.

If a studio makes games nobody wants to play on a sub, this same studio would probably make games nobody would want to buy.

 

[MadPanda]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jelien

So partner architect at Microsoft equals Microsoft?

Anyway, studios are always at risk if they don't deliver. You think it's different at other 3rd or 1st party publishers?

 

[damidu]

Sure makes sense... Sony closes down ineffective studios themselves. If a 3rd party company doesn't perform on its own even not being under MS or Sony, they eventually shutter their doors. Did people actually think companies are automatically safe because MS has tons of money and will fund endless failure? That isn't realistic and this is a nothingburger.

only difference being they are going after whole publishers and console manufaturers at this point.
while betting everything on a sub service revolution pipe dream

 

[DenchDeckard]

The studio behind immortals of aveum say hello.

If you don't deliver the goods...you fall. Its the nature of the industry now. Its a massive risk making a game and if it doesn't hit right....its joever.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Sure makes sense... Sony closes down ineffective studios themselves. If a 3rd party company doesn't perform on its own even not being under MS or Sony, they eventually shutter their doors. Did people actually think companies are automatically safe because MS has tons of money and will fund endless failure? That isn't realistic and this is a nothingburger.

I’d agree if that was what they were talking about.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Sure makes sense... Sony closes down ineffective studios themselves. If a 3rd party company doesn't perform on its own even not being under MS or Sony, they eventually shutter their doors. Did people actually think companies are automatically safe because MS has tons of money and will fund endless failure? That isn't realistic and this is a nothingburger.

Difference is Sony’s model doesn’t rely so much on feeding their subscription service with games as MS does.

 

[Mr Moose]

The studio behind immortals of aveum say hello.

If you don't deliver the goods...you fall. Its the nature of the industry now. Its a massive risk making a game and if it doesn't hit right....its joever.

Good bye, Arkane studios, we wish you well.

 

[damidu]

The studio behind immortals of aveum say hello.

If you don't deliver the goods...you fall. Its the nature of the industry now. Its a massive risk making a game and if it doesn't hit right....its joever.

lol stock up on some coffee man, you guys have your damage control work cut out for the next few days

 

[makaveli60]

How is it that armchair analysts have seen this coming from miles while those in power didn’t? Rhetorical question...

 

[SEGAvangelist]

That's one person in MS proposing the question, TBF. Do we have the responses to read?

 

[lefty1117]

I see justs as many threads about people wanting MS to hold their teams accountable, so idkwtftt at this point

 

[quest]

Difference is Sony’s model doesn’t rely so much on feeding their subscription service with games as MS does.

It only relies on 80% marketshare to make up cash short fall and all thier games hitting 15 million sales or your relegated to remaster duty like bend or closed down like the Japanese studios.

 

[Robb]

 

[adamsapple]

Good bye, Arkane studios, we wish you well.

Based on the leaks, they're on Dishonored 3, so they're safe.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Difference is Sony’s model doesn’t rely so much on feeding their subscription service with games as MS does.

How do you mean?

EDIT: And to be clear, what's the difference in making games for Sony to release versus making games for Microsoft to release? Is it different?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It only relies on 80% marketshare to make up cash short fall and all thier games hitting 15 million sales or your relegated to remaster duty like bend or closed down like the Japanese studios.

I see. When the going gets tough for Xbox, pivot to "but Sony"...

Truth is, yes, you either sink or swim. No one disputes that. But buying whole fuckin' publishers with this as a possibility is a worrying thought and it should be. There's a difference between Zenimax and Japan Studio...

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

PSA - There are no free rides.

Produce profits or you will be invited to contribute to the growth story as a customer.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

We've already started to see this with some of Microsoft's purchases. Mike Brown and many others from Playground are no longer there, I wonder what changed? Shinji Mikami suddenly left, despite not retiring, wonder what happened? Drew Murray left ASAP back to Sony, wonder what happened? Other names I'm not recalling ATM have just disappeared, wonder what happened?

I think the concern in that email exchange, which is 100% valid, can apply not just to studios getting shut down in case of even a single failure, but talent departing due to fear of that, or dislike for the developing corporate culture such an influx of acquisitions create. Some of these people feel they are probably not having their talent or time valued, or feel they're becoming more distant from upper management in getting needs met, so they depart.

Yes these things happen everywhere, but Microsoft's playing a dangerous game fostering an environment for accelerated departures and studio closures. They may have "virtually infinite" money, but you don't hit the level of rich they are by losing tons and tons of it on failing ventures. In creating that environment of accelerated departures and closures, though, they are destabilizing known IPs and development teams, which will inevitably hurt quality.

Paying more, for less, and weakening the industry along the way. What a great strategy /s.

I see. When the going gets tough for Xbox, pivot to "but Sony"...

Literally like clockwork. Sony Too™ and all that kind of stuff. Yes Sony have their own issues, but the subject at hand is Microsoft. Why can't some people stay focused on the topic at hand...

 

[Mr Moose]

Based on the leaks, they're on Dishonored 3, so they're safe.

Arkane Austin are?

 

[Represent.]

The gamepass model will absolutely ruin this hobby of ours.

 

[adamsapple]

Arkane Austin are?

Good point. But they could be one of the "Project xxxxx" ones from the leak.

Separately, we already know their next project is more single player oriented.

Arkane Austin Seemingly Returning To Single-Player Project Following Release Of Redfall

New job listings hint at what's to come

www.purexbox.com

 

[Yoboman]

What happens today when a studio makes games that don’t perform well? The guys who made Saints Row 22 or Immortals of Aveum would be just as dead as they are today if they were on a sub model.

If a studio makes games nobody wants to play on a sub, this same studio would probably make games nobody would want to buy.

Saints Row. Oh you mean from Volition who had been around since 1993, who made some legendary games and was completely killed off after their first game under the acquisition of Embracer Group? The same Embracer Group losing billions from an aggressive acquisition and consolidation spree?

 

[Kacho]

Only a handful of their acquired studios will have a noticeable impact on Game Pass engagement. If leadership isn't aware of this then they are truly clueless.

Game Pass is a dead-end IMO. It's a supplemental value add and nothing more.

 

[rofif]

Here for a better read.

wtf are these emils?! Nobody writes stuff like this in emails.
Corporate emails are not facebook posts, which this reads like it....
I work in a huge corpo. I know... well, I am good 10 level below these guys tho

 

[splattered]

Difference is Sony’s model doesn’t rely so much on feeding their subscription service with games as MS does.

Not currently... why do you think there is such a huge pivot at Sony for Gaas though? They are also pursuing this model and are right behind Microsoft at this point.

 

[damidu]

That's one person in MS proposing the question, TBF. Do we have the responses to read?

probably got another cocaine fueled console wars drivel from spencer, and they fired the person

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Not currently... why do you think there is such a huge pivot at Sony for Gaas though? They are also pursuing this model and are right behind Microsoft at this point.

Still swinging to Sony...

Humor me...what are they hugely pivoting from?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

wtf are these emils?! Nobody writes stuff like this in emails.
Corporate emails are not facebook posts, which this reads like it....
I work in a huge corpo. I know... well, I am good 10 level below these guys tho

These are pretty accurate C-level emails: simple language, straight to the point. It’s the people below that pad a lot.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I see justs as many threads about people wanting MS to hold their teams accountable, so idkwtftt at this point

It's more complicated than that. Yeah they need to hold their teams accountable, but what are they expecting from their teams in doing so, and are those expectations realistic? If a team fails, how much of the blame is on them, versus Microsoft or upper management at the Xbox division? Are the consequences being fairly distributed to the parties at fault?

Not to even touch on the inherent problems of accelerated, mass consolidation which Microsoft have participated in and encouraged more than most, when they were already struggling to get things stable and improving for their core teams and the 2018 pick-ups before turning to buying massive 3P publishers. The fact Nadella said they'd like to buy even more after ABK, and now we have leaks showing they have a long-term (con) game to hopefully disrupt Nintendo enough to buy them out, should show that Microsoft don't care about these concerns, because I don't think they genuinely care about the industry's prosperity outside of themselves and what companies they would like to buy up.

 

[Portugeezer]

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I honestly feel like Phil only looks at the short term.

Yay, we have all these studios… but it’s costing us an absolute fucking fortune to upkeep and they only release one game every 5 years (for AAA).

The goalposts sure are strange too. Will they be measuring success on engagement with the product? If so, not sure how you turn that into revenue (outside of GP subs). That probably also means that MTX will be absolutely essential to their success, unless there are other ways of generating revenue that I’m too lazy to think of.

 

[lefty1117]

It's more complicated than that. Yeah they need to hold their teams accountable, but what are they expecting from their teams in doing so, and are those expectations realistic? If a team fails, how much of the blame is on them, versus Microsoft or upper management at the Xbox division? Are the consequences being fairly distributed to the parties at fault?

Not to even touch on the inherent problems of accelerated, mass consolidation which Microsoft have participated in and encouraged more than most, when they were already struggling to get things stable and improving for their core teams and the 2018 pick-ups before turning to buying massive 3P publishers. The fact Nadella said they'd like to buy even more after ABK, and now we have leaks showing they have a long-term (con) game to hopefully disrupt Nintendo enough to buy them out, should show that Microsoft don't care about these concerns, because I don't think they genuinely care about the industry's prosperity outside of themselves and what companies they would like to buy up.

That's basically every business on the planet except for non-profits, to be fair

 

[splattered]

Still swinging to Sony...

Humor me...what are they pivoting from?

Geez why do you want me to talk about Sony so much?

 

[damidu]

I honestly feel like Phil only looks at the short term.

Yay, we have all these studios… but it’s costing us an absolute fucking fortune to upkeep and they only release one game every 5 years (for AAA).

The goalposts sure are strange too. Will they be measuring success on engagement with the product? If so, not sure how you turn that into revenue (outside of GP subs). That probably also means that MTX will be absolutely essential to their success, unless there are other ways of generating revenue that I’m too lazy to think of.

engagement was last year, they are measuring oxygen levels now.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Geez why do you want me to talk about Sony so much?

You just answered my question perfectly.

 

[Yoboman]

wtf are these emils?! Nobody writes stuff like this in emails.
Corporate emails are not facebook posts, which this reads like it....
I work in a huge corpo. I know... well, I am good 10 level below these guys tho

Your job is obviously slow moving

Maybe 10% of my emails are in corpo speak and the least edited, spell checked emails I get are from C levels. Often just word vomit that we have to try and interpret

 

[Chukhopops]

Saints Row. Oh you mean from Volition who had been around since 1993, who made some legendary games and was completely killed off after their first game under the acquisition of Embracer Group? The same Embracer Group losing billions from an aggressive acquisition and consolidation spree?

Volition has had three flops in a row and hasn’t had a success in almost a decade since Saints Row IV in 2013!

I don’t like Embracer more than anyone else but you can’t keep a team that takes 5 years to make SR22.

If anything, being bought out has allowed them to survive a bit longer than if they were independent (which they never were, they belonged to THQ before).

 

[splattered]

I don't. You answered my question perfectly here.

Whatever you wanna believe warrior, soldier on

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Whatever you wanna believe warrior, soldier on

Protip: whenever one chooses deflection over engagement, they never had an argument to begin with.

 

[Tams]

No sympathy because this is all self inflicted.

 

[diffusionx]

It's not like MS has not done this before. They closed a lot of studios in the late 00s, as they transitioned to being a (lmao) Kinect company. This included Ensemble, the team that made Flight Sim, etc. If MS decides that Phil's strategy is not working out, then he is gone and the new guy will have to clean up the mess. That will undoubtedly include shutting down a lot of these studios, including ones that we all know and love, if they haven't delivered in a long time. Like, nobody is safe. If id's next game flops then they could shut them down. That's just how it goes.

 

[BlackTron]

My last post in the other thread a few minutes ago was EXACTLY THIS. Holy shit the emails just keep coming

Sometimes it's good for all parties, like when Sony buys Insomniac. But when MS buys you out, you may indeed cease to exist

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Not currently... why do you think there is such a huge pivot at Sony for Gaas though? They are also pursuing this model and are right behind Microsoft at this point.

If Sony try adapting MS's model note-for-note, they will die. It's that simple. Microsoft's gaming model only works for Microsoft, that's the reason they're doing it. If they can trick Sony, or Nintendo or whoever else to follow it and bleed themselves dry while doing so, that will just make Microsoft's job easier.

The fear, for me, is that Sony in fact do adopt MS's model to a T, when in reality, they should be doing a model mostly inspired by Nintendo, adopting parts of Microsoft's and keeping most of their own model (which worked well for PS4) intact. They could be doing better in this regard, IMHO.

That's basically every business on the planet except for non-profits, to be fair

That doesn't mean every company is the same in how they do it. Microsoft has a...quite nastier, and slimier...history of wanting to accomplish that type of thing than most other tech corporations. It's historically documented.

And yes you can say "well if X-company had MS's money they'd do the same", but that is a hypothetical, and doesn't change the reality that in our timeline, the company with that money is Microsoft. They've chosen to engage in their own growth and expressed interest in growth of targets they'd like to acquire, in a way that is personally a turn-off to me.

 

[SlimySnake]

The studio behind immortals of aveum say hello.

If you don't deliver the goods...you fall. Its the nature of the industry now. Its a massive risk making a game and if it doesn't hit right....its joever.

I think thats true for independent studios like Immortals devs who live paycheck to paycheck and shipping one poor game results in a shutdown.

This is why devs sell themselves to big publishers so that one fuckup wont kill the studio forever. Because those big publishers have other games coming out that might be successful and can fund the studios that couldnt deliver.

The problem with MS is that they have acquired too many studios, and they are forcing all of them to release games on gamepass which is going to reduce the funds successful games can bring in while increasing the risk of games not being successful. Just this year, we have seen high fi rush, starfield and redfall release. With forza still to come. Gamepass is still at 25 million. same as last year. The games are not charting. though starfield will. Forza Horizon was a big success but charted at 20th on NPD. Halo didnt even chart.

They are just putting themselves in a very bad position. Its simply not sustainable.

 

[GHG]

So much for Microsoft's acquisitions securing the future of these businesses and for gamepass being an enabler for niche games.

By the grace of God go we.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Bargain of the generation.