MS not mandating any framerate or fidelity requirements on Scorpio including in MP

Hasn't Microsoft stated the opposite already? That there won't be any frame rate differences between Scorpio and Xbox One games?

"No, there wouldn't be a frame rate difference, because typically the frame rate is determined by the game developer and what's right for the gameplay mechanic," Loftis says. "You don't necessarily want to create two different mechanics for two different configurations."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/06/25/microsoft-says-scorpio-will-not-have-better-framerates-than-regular-xbox-one-games/#62e7242c5bf2


It's a pretty similar statement to what Mike said but she just went ahead and said what we already know. Microsoft has been pretty on point about Scorpio. Don't read too much into that tweet.

Flipping more switches than a Nintendo scalper. The Scorpio will probably be a great machine but let's not fall for PR bullshit again.
 
I believe that Destiny has the lowest input lag of any shooter on console and it runs at 30fps. It's all about dev priorities.

It's true that for fast pace games it's easier to keep track of the action at 60fps vs 30fps. That might feel like an advantage. Here's the thing, though... you can have that advantage too if you want it. You're not forbidden from buying a Scorpio.

...but if it's not important to you, then don't. Your games will still work.
Exactly. It seems like if people can't have it for their preferred console, then the conclusion seems to be that it's better that nobody else has it either. Nobody is forbidden from buying scorpio. And if they're not going to buy scorpio, and aren't even interested in the xbox one version of a game anyway, what's the point of the complaint?

People are specifically buying scorpio because they want to take advantage of whatever advantages or enhancements it will bring.
 
Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"Mp console parity" is and has been a joke
'nuff said, really.
 
I prefer Microsoft's handling of possible FPS gains over Sony's.

You don't need to tell a 3rd party dev team what is 'fair.' Each game maker will listen to their fans and decide for themselves how best to utilize Scorpio. Ubisoft is more in touch with what players want from an Ubisoft game than Microsoft. Let Ubisoft do what it wants with this new tech and trust that they'll do right by their fans.
 
Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"Mp console parity" is and has been a joke
I cared about parity somewhat when the mid-gen upgrades were announced, but yeah, it's already a joke. Add people on PS4 use mouse/keyboards to the list.
 
False. They made a point to specifically state they cant discuss details of the Scorpio version yet. You. Are. Wrong.

When they say 30fps on consoles, Scorpio isn't included in that because the Scorpio version is still under wraps.

It may be the same in the end but we don't know for sure yet.
And what he said. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Destiny 2 is also 30fps on Scorpio, but I don't believe for a second it couldn't be 60 on Scorpio, even with what they said about CPU. Scorpio with the specs as presented seems more than capable of pulling this off. The GPU headroom alone should make this possible.
 
Silly question but can 30fps players beat 60fps players competitive wise? Or are the 60fps players at a huge advantage?
With 60 fps it's a lot easier to see and track other players on screen as the motion is a lot smoother, allowing for much better aiming. High skill can still trump everything though, 60 fps players aren't automatically better than 30 fps players. However if both players are equally skilled then the one playing at 60 fps would have a significant advantage.
 
The same reason people think an extra 9% of CPU power will produce 30 extra frames. It's silly.
I like how you are completely overlooking the fact that there is also 12gb of GDDR5 RAM and a much more powerful GPU. Yes the CPU is again going to be a bottleneck limiter and people are silly to think that somehow the difference is enough for PS4 Pro to only be 4K/30 while Scorpio would be 4K/60, but the performance gains would be enough where PS4 Pro may not hit 4K/30 while Scorpio could and PS4 Pro may have to start being 4Kpr or have much more frame drops compared to Scorpio. The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 was in terms of what they can do.

Destiny 2, if they could not hit 4k/60 on PS4 Pro, it is also not going to be 4K/60fps on Scorpio. It will also not be 4K/60FPS for a lot of PC's except very high end GPU or expensive builds. It is why so many who were at the event were tweeting things like damn I have to build a new PC now etc.
 
The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 Pro was in terms of what they can do.
Raw numbers the difference between Scorpio > Pro to PS4 > XB1 would be around 5-8% to the former. I'm pretty sure someone will read this the wrong way, so to be clear I'm talking about comparing the gaps, not one console versus the other. Between consoles the gap is around 30 to 40.
 
There is a reason MS and Sony focus exclusively​ on resolution. CPU has no bearing on it. Games that are 30FPS because of CPU limitations will be 30FPS on the Scorpio 80% of the time. The 24% increase over the OG XB1 would bring 30 to 37. Unless they have a frame rate prior to v-sync of around 49 FPS you most likely won't hit 60

I know it won't be that black and white, and there is a lot more work that goes into it than that most of the time. It's not going to magically fix the CPU limitations just because you can pump out more pixels at once.

Also, people freaking out about 30 FPS vs 60

I play CSGO with my mate and he's at 30FPS and I'm playing at 144FPS. Not that big of a deal. He'll still out play me sometimes.

Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"Mp console parity" is and has been a joke
And all of this
 
What happened to leaving no Xbox 1 users behind according to Phil? That kind of shits on the current 30m+ x1 users.

Also Scorpio is using a Jaguar cpu too, I wouldn't have that high expectation for fps.
Yeah, MS should force developers not to use a single bit of Scorpio extra power.
 
I like how you are completely overlooking the fact that there is also 12gb of GDDR5 RAM and a much more powerful GPU.
But those literally don't matter in this case. At all. It could have 12 Terabytes of HBM5 RAM and a Petaflop GPU and it wouldn't matter for this.

Yes the CPU is again going to be a bottleneck limiter and people are silly to think that somehow the difference is enough for PS4 Pro to only be 4K/30 while Scorpio would be 4K/60
Wait, so you get it?

but the performance gains would be enough where PS4 Pro may not hit 4K/30 while Scorpio could and PS4 Pro may have to start being 4Kpr or have much more frame drops compared to Scorpio.
...what?

The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 Pro was in terms of what they can do.
Factually untrue.

Destiny 2, if they could not hit 4k/60 on PS4 Pro, it is also not going to be 4K/60fps on Scorpio. It will also not be 4K/60FPS for a lot of PC's except very high end GPU or expensive builds. It is why so many who were at the event were tweeting things like damn I have to build a new PC now etc.
Nothing suggests Destiny 2 will be any harder to get to 4K60FPS on PC than any other game which is 1080p30 on consoles.

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Most Scorpio games are probably going to look identical to PS4 Pro save for native 4K, simply because no one that's not Microsoft is going to bother making extensive modifications just for one niche sub-platform. Only games that were already somewhat close to 60fps when unlocked have a chance at reaching smooth 60 on the Scorpio.
 
They don't even exist. Persona 5 doesn't have Pro support either.

These "rules" people came up with are from leaked PDF's back when PS4 Pro was still known as Project Neo. Shit clearly changed.

Battleborn also has a locked 1080p60 mode on Pro. That's an FPS MOBA. In any case, in DS3 PvP the frame rate gives you far more of an advantage than any shooter. At its base level, Dark Souls is just a 3D fighting game.
You're right it don't exist going back it was just a comment from a ND dev that videogamer clickbaited into "Sony" as we don't have context of the question he could have very well just be talking about ND's thoughts.

In case people are interested in seeing it again -
Also Battleborn support the same target fps(60) on XB1 and PS4.
This is false. The only mandate for Pro is, basically, the Pro version has to at least match the base version in terms of performance and graphical fidelity. It's a completely reasonable thing.
It's both actually 😉-

 
As I mentioned in the other thread, it's clear that MS don't care about fps parity in games. They allow Gear 4 MP between PC and XBO when the PC version can run at 100fps while the XBO is stuck at 60fps.

no body left behind...

;)
I don't think you understood the meaning behind that line. They made it pretty clear that it referred to no game or mode (outside of VR) would be exclusive to Scorpio.
 
Imagine if 1080p60 mode was avail on scorpio! Woot
Devs are not required to folllow the same frame rate as xbone, but Ms did say on Scorpio DF reveal that any mode should be available at all resolutions. So if the game has a 60fps mode it should be available to 4k users as well (though not necessarily rendering natively in 4k)
 
But those literally don't matter in this case. At all. It could have 12 Terabytes of HBM5 RAM and a Petaflop GPU and it wouldn't matter for this.

Wait, so you get it?

...what?

Factually untrue.

Nothing suggests Destiny 2 will be any harder to get to 4K60FPS on PC than any other game which is 1080p30 on consoles.

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Most Scorpio games are probably going to look identical to PS4 Pro save for native 4K, simply because no one that's not Microsoft is going to bother making extensive modifications just for one niche sub-platform. Only games that were already somewhat close to 60fps when unlocked have a chance at reaching smooth 60 on the Scorpio.
Wouldn't it make sense for devs to make Scorpio lead console platform, hit targets needed and then pare down if needed for PS4 Pro and PS4 and then finally Xbox One, and scale up for PC? Scorpio will be niche I agree, but the architecture very similar to point that they can do what they need to for all platforms really. Or maybe hit targets with PS4 Pro and then polish for Scorpio?

But you're right. I feel will just be few frames difference or native 4K versus scaling 4KPr or checkerboard 4K between the versions.
 
the salt is already starting to seep out around here.....would be funny to see the reactions if they announced the scorpio version was uncapped 4k
Talking about D2? If so, the salt will be coming from the Scorpio devotees setting themselves up for disappointment. From what has been stated by Bungie (and shown from how they handled D1) D2 is the last game you would bank on to showcase the scope of the Scorpio.

Feeling confident of 4K native 60fps (or uncapped)? Then I invite you to join me in a little wager...
 
But those literally don't matter in this case. At all. It could have 12 Terabytes of HBM5 RAM and a Petaflop GPU and it wouldn't matter for this.
Not necessarily true. With more ram you can prebake more stuff or compress less and save significant gpu and cpu resources during gameplay.

I don't think so. Xbone to Ps4 had the same amount of RAM, xbone had a slightly higher clocked cpu, but there was the virtualization overhead, xbone had esram which did offered some advantages in some scenarios.

Scorpio is just plain better on all accounts. It has a faster gpu, it has a faster CPU and supposedly with less overhead and improved co processors to have even more available to the game, it has more memory (8GB for games versus 5.5), and that memory is over 100GB/s faster without any kind of embedded ram on Ps4 to make it up for the difference.

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Most Scorpio games are probably going to look identical to PS4 Pro save for native 4K, simply because no one that's not Microsoft is going to bother making extensive modifications just for one niche sub-platform. Only games that were already somewhat close to 60fps when unlocked have a chance at reaching smooth 60 on the Scorpio.
Developers are already making PC versions of most games, and for most cases Pc versions of those games already has better assets and effects than the Ps4 Pro version. Perhaps Scorpio won't be able to deliver ultra, but it should offer more than Pro than just a resolution bump.
 
Devs are not required to folllow the same frame rate as xbone, but Ms did say on Scorpio DF reveal that any mode should be available at all resolutions. So if the game has a 60fps mode it should be available to 4k users as well (though not necessarily rendering natively in 4k)
Not like I'm even highly interested in Destiny 2 right now, because honestly the first was a disappointment as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't at all what I hoped it would be. But if what Microsoft said to DF, about making things as easy as possible for developers with Scorpio, I see absolutely no reason why the Scorpio version of Destiny 2 couldn't have a 60fps mode, whether that be at 1080p, 4K, or something a bit less than 4K.

And I see people having all these concerns, not sure if it's going on in this particular thread since I haven't read everything - although it's certainly a concern on twitter - about whether or not whatever deal Sony has with Activision will end up preventing them from doing what they can to take advantage of Scorpio. I really don't have that concern. And if it does end up happening, it won't necessarily because there was a deal to make sure it didn't happen, but more that it just isn't a priority.
 
Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"Mp console parity" is and has been a joke
That's a pretty ridiculous list. No one complains about lack of parity with that stuff because there's no way to enforce it. 30 fps vs 60fps can absolutely be enforced.
 
Talking about D2? If so, the salt will be coming from the Scorpio devotees setting themselves up for disappointment. From what has been stated by Bungie (and shown from how they handled D1) D2 is the last game you would bank on to showcase the scope of the Scorpio.

Feeling confident of 4K native 60fps (or uncapped)? Then I invite you to join me in a little wager...
Lol...no could not care less about the frame rate...im more of an added detail sorta guy
 
I don't think so. Xbone to Ps4 had the same amount of RAM, xbone had a slightly higher clocked cpu, but there was the virtualization overhead, xbone had esram which did offered some advantages in some scenarios.
Read it again

The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 Pro was in terms of what they can do.
desperately hoping that's a typo.
 
some reason some peeps are forgetting Scorpio has a 3gb advantage in memory, they will be able to use PC assets in high reas. The GPU alone will make it 4k instead of checkerboard, the 3gb will make it even more prettier. then add in the faster cpu for smoother framerate.
 
That's a pretty ridiculous list. No one complains about lack of parity with that stuff because there's no way to enforce it. 30 fps vs 60fps can absolutely be enforced.
The point is that "parity" doesn't exist and never has. It's a ridiculous reason to hold back a game on better hardware. You've never been on an equal playing field.
 
some reason some peeps are forgetting Scorpio has a 3gb advantage in memory, they will be able to use PC assets in high reas. The GPU alone will make it 4k instead of checkerboard, the 3gb will make it even more prettier. then add in the faster cpu for smoother framerate.
The extra 3GB probably isn't enough for high res textures at 4K (I play games that use 6 to 8GB of VRAM alone at 1080p), but it definitely was the right move. I was dumbfounded how Sony only increased it by 500MB. Textures at 4K are really demanding.

I think it'll show the biggest advantages in the coming digital foundries
 
I'm betting Destiny 2 still won't be 60fps. I can't imagine .2 GHz is enough of a difference to push a consistent 60fps. Maybe I'm wrong though. Hopefully it won't screw over people with normal Xbones if it has it.
 
The extra 3GB probably isn't enough for high res textures at 4K (I play games that use 6 to 8GB of VRAM alone at 1080p), but it definitely was the right move. I was dumbfounded how Sony only increased it by 500MB. Textures at 4K are really demanding.

I think it'll show the biggest advantages in the coming digital foundries
You have it all wrong. You need a graphics card with at least a memory bandwidth of 320GB/s which Scorpio is at least equipped with.
 
Yeah.. this really sucks. I would never buy a XBox again if I'd be forced to buy the new one on launch to not have a big disadvantage in MP matches. There are already enough things that can give you an advantage in Multiplayer (even on console) and they make it worse with a huge difference like that. The difference in a game like BF1 on PS4 vs Pro is already bad enough since it's more unstable on the base model. But that isn't close to this, esspecially if it is allowed for every game.

People saying "consoles are just bad PCs for the living room" will be right soon, at least when looking at XBox.

For me that's the one point that Sony got right with the Pro and better than MS if that becomes reality.

I hope most devs won't allow that. The good thing is that more devs are going for 60fps in MP on the base models this gen anyways, but it's still not everyone.
 
I'm betting Destiny 2 still won't be 60fps. I can't imagine .2 GHz is enough of a difference to push a consistent 60fps. Maybe I'm wrong though. Hopefully it won't screw over people with normal Xbones if it has it.
I play Battlefront on my PC that averages 75fps while others with monster rigs running over 160 fps and they don't have a advantage over me.
 
I like how you are completely overlooking the fact that there is also 12gb of GDDR5 RAM and a much more powerful GPU. Yes the CPU is again going to be a bottleneck limiter and people are silly to think that somehow the difference is enough for PS4 Pro to only be 4K/30 while Scorpio would be 4K/60, but the performance gains would be enough where PS4 Pro may not hit 4K/30 while Scorpio could and PS4 Pro may have to start being 4Kpr or have much more frame drops compared to Scorpio. The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 Pro was in terms of what they can do.

Destiny 2, if they could not hit 4k/60 on PS4 Pro, it is also not going to be 4K/60fps on Scorpio. It will also not be 4K/60FPS for a lot of PC's except very high end GPU or expensive builds. It is why so many who were at the event were tweeting things like damn I have to build a new PC now etc.
While I agree with you, I think many are looking at resolution and FPS and not considering all the other benefits that could be applied to the game. Things like 16xAF, better shadows, better textures due to the higher RAM and many are not considering the massive memory bandwidth that could also help. I am not suggesting or implying that the Scorpio version will be 4k/60fps, but most likely will be 4k/30fps and have plenty of overhead for other things like the 16xAF and perhaps better shadows/texture resolution. Depending on the engine on my PC many games in 4k don't need AA, but some still do. 4k does eliminate many jaggies, but some games still exhibit them at that high resolution so having some AA solutions depending on the engine and how it handles 4k can also be applied to further enhance the IQ.

I think/believe that many here (not all) think that Scorpio will be Xbox One games, but in 4k and calling it day...I really think with the tech inside the box we are going to see a lot more than that...I mean, if that was what we would be getting, there would be ZERO reason for them to go to 12gb of RAM.