MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

It will be all the more beautiful the first time Xbox live goes down and the venom that will ensue from people not able to play their rented games. MS put a giant target on themselves with their unapologetic anti consumer stance.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
The Cloud, could be processing people routines at an RPG city, could be processing millions of AI decisions that change an AI character behavior. Not realtime stuff, but things you could stream with a little latency to use later in real time. Geometry, textures, massive AI tests
Not that many games have stuff like this.
 
haha... lot's of people in denial that this exists but 300,000 new MS servers and some creative Devs (even if mostly 1st party) will prove people wrong.
Cloud gaming, the new waggle.

"Guys imagine what developers can do with the Wii-mote!"

And then Nintendo themselves were the only ones for the majority of the Wii's life to dish out neat experiences with it.
 
Applications for which the cloud makes actual sense:

1. Generative probabilistic graphical (as in the graph data structure) modeling
-Voice recognition
-Natural language processing
-hyperpixel image segmentation for non dynamic images (recorded footage not live footage)

2. Seeding of procedurally generated high complex data
-Blazing fast Dwarf Fortress startup

3. Database operations

But anyone that is telling you that the cloud can do a task that has the frame latency of a modern game as a bottleneck (~33.3ms) is at best being naive.
 
The Cloud, could be processing people routines at an RPG city, could be processing millions of AI decisions that change an AI character behavior. Not realtime stuff, but things you could stream with a little latency to use later in real time. Geometry, textures, massive AI tests
24 hours later?

No one knows that.

Except Reiko and the mods.
Reiko confirmed it posting on another forum
 
You're not rendering on the cloud

You are offloading calculations of things that don't need to be done locally

Things that would be far too strenuous to do but not really impacted by average latencies

And by doing this you are opening up CPU time and in some case GPU time to spend on other things
Then give examples.
 
At the risk of sounding arrogant...

I am so smart, S-M-R-T!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52843335&postcount=249

Supposedly the system requires Kinect microphone and camera to be connected for the system to function (according to rumors) in order to control every aspect of the console from games to TV and video to Internet searches to potentially the lights in your home. The systems ability to accurately understand your voice and gestures in every single element of the system are directly connected to their data centers making this data crunching and matching possible. If you are disconnected from their data centers then nothing would work well. Voice recognition will be much slower and less accurate, gesture and image recognition would be much slower and less accurate in every single game and every single function of the machine.

With respect to games if designers are being encouraged to create games that make use of Kinect voice and gesture and Kinect needs Microsoft data centers in order to work well then developers no longer have the confidence to build Kinect voice/gesture features into their games.

Cutting off the internet connection is cutting off the system at the knees. The computational power of the next Xbox is on the server side, that is the "special sauce," that is the "wizard jizz." The box in your living room is not the computational power house. The data centers of boxes on Microsoft's end are where the computational power resides and will enable them to produce functionality on the console that their competitors can't match.
-April 5th, 2013

The concept of a "console generation" is over.
 
Yeah, they probably customized one of the move engines to move model data from the cloud directly to the eSRAM. The extremely low latency of that memory pool will make up for the latency of the cloud request.
it has been speculated for a while that one of the move engines is assigned to let XO talk directly to the cloud, bypassing L2 cache. As much as I have heard, they are aiming for 4/32 frame latency, which is awesome.

PS4 has no such move engine, plus inherited latency of GDD5 compared to DD3 will make this impossible, thus giving XO big advantage once Azure cloud computing platform (300,000 servers) has been connected.
 
You're not rendering on the cloud

You are offloading calculations of things that don't need to be done locally

Things that would be far too strenuous to do but not really impacted by average latencies

And by doing this you are opening up CPU time and in some case GPU time to spend on other things
So like Diablo 3s monster and npc AI and Simcitys city AI and sim behaviour, right?
 
You're not rendering on the cloud

You are offloading calculations of things that don't need to be done locally

Things that would be far too strenuous to do but not really impacted by average latencies

And by doing this you are opening up CPU time and in some case GPU time to spend on other things
So you're saying this will make the system 4x more powerful?
 
Since the 360 can only use the cloud if I have gold; does that mean I have to get gold for the xbone just to get "better" performance?

$50+ year just to get an extra boost...that's wow....
 
Haha, you know anyone who can get close is just gonna take the bullshit.
That's just scratching the surface. How the fuck are devs going to code their games for some variable pie in the sky processing bullshit? If it ever goes offline in the future, the entire X1 library dies. Jesus what a clusterfuck.
I don't think they can. I think that Microsoft is using it like snake oil :/

I can't figure out how they'd use slow ass online storage space, "the cloud", to make graphics or AI better.

The cloud is flavor text while ram or gpu are actual, quantifiable impacts on performance.
No, because most of them have no fucking clue and will eat up every bite of horseshit that PR feeds them.
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!
 
some thoughts on B3D how it wil work

Dude, it doesn't matter what I say, you've already made your mind up. One of my favorite games this generation was 99 nights. It had hundreds of enemies on screen, with kind of crappy ai. Move the ai to the cloud, and you can have thousands of smart enemies on screen simultaneously. Single player game, doing something using the cloud that the console cannot do alone, requiring only a few KB per update bandwidth

Ok, just as an example. Imagine a multiplayer FPS today with an AI sniper laying in wait for a number of folks all around the map. Today, each instance has to host it's own AI for the sniper, and it has to be completely synced and completely predictable. In a future game of this type, the sniper can be hosted in the cloud, with hugely superior AI, randomness, learning, etc. and the only things you need to keep synced are player positions, and who the sniper fires on. Low bandwidth, latency tolerant, and it allows you to have unlimited AI actors in a multiplayer game without the nightmares this used to be, and with almost zero processing cost for the console.
I would do something like crowd simulation for a...

I would do something like crowd simulation for a racing game. Play offline, you get sparse crowds like current gen, play online, you get huge dynamic crowds with much more diversity.
My point is that 5 years from now, the idea of a game that doesn't require an Internet connection will be as quaint as a game that can fit onto a CD. Sure, they'll exist, and people will reminisce about the good old days when consoles only used the Internet for video streaming, but all the top games will be online only. They'll have persistent changing worlds, they'll have thousands of AI actors. Imagine Skyrim, if it had all the people in the cities it should have had. And they were backed by the kinds of AI algorithms driving the top bots today that are almost beating the Turing test. And you actually spoke to them, like a real person, instead of picking conversation topics from a list, and they answered using cloud rendered text-to-speech that is currently almost good enough to pass, and is actively being improved
 
Oh my god, this cloud shit is the justification for Xbox Live Gold. Microsoft will say by paying $60 a year you are maintaining the ability to let them load textures so the games runs at a slightly higher frame rate, the end result might not even be as substantial as that.
 
I think I'm getting a better picture of "always-online" and "Avatar-like graphics".

I'd expect a company who sunk billions into R&D and buying 300,000 servers to have an idea of what they're talking about, so I'm interested to see just how something like this could work.

i wonder why did they bother to put a 1.2 Tflop apu in the box when the cloud can, apparently, deliver 3 times that power. Doesn't make much sense to me. But hey, they may have discovered a new technology worth the Nobel prize
 
You're not rendering on the cloud

You are offloading calculations of things that don't need to be done locally

Things that would be far too strenuous to do but not really impacted by average latencies

And by doing this you are opening up CPU time and in some case GPU time to spend on other things
Problem is there's nothing in gaming that fits those requirements really. Someone above mentioned NPC AI in an MMO type game. But MMOs already do this. For years now.
 
The most frustrating part of this is that it does undermine the good that cloud servers and computing can do and can bring, by turning it into complete idiocy and a smoke and mirrors buzz word.
It will come along and it will bring dividends in the future and the near future but not as it is being sold.
 
You're not rendering on the cloud

You are offloading calculations of things that don't need to be done locally

Things that would be far too strenuous to do but not really impacted by average latencies

And by doing this you are opening up CPU time and in some case GPU time to spend on other things
So you're saying the CPU is the bottleneck X4? You're making no sense here. If the GPU has a peak performance of 1.2 Teraflops, and this isn't about GPU rendering, this isn't going to make performance any higher than 1.2 Teraflops. You're saying an average .3 Teraflops is applied to rendering and the rest is being wasted by the CPU bottleneck.
 
I'm starting to think Microsoft is actively trolling gamers. It's like they know what is going to set off the community the most and they roll with it.

"Oh you know what would be funny as shit? Remember what happened with SimCity?"

"Haha yeah that was hilarious."

"Yeah. So let's do the same thing. Let's tell them how they need to be always online because of all the crazy processing the cloud is going to do."

"Ohh SHIT, you are ice cold! No used games AND this? They are going to FLIP!"
 
If the cloud can make it 40x the power, why do they even need a new box? If the cloud could do anything this dramatic how is MS the first company to put anything out like it?