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Mueller Report Released - No collusion or obstruction of justice found

Teletraan1

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Nadler without having read the actual report. He skimmed it. Is now pushing forward with more investigations. What a fucking joke.
 

Trey

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Nadler without having read the actual report. He skimmed it. Is now pushing forward with more investigations. What a fucking joke.
Mueller outlined ten instances of possible obstruction, and explicitly left it in the hands of Congress to act on it in the manner they saw fit.
 
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danielberg

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Mueller outlined ten instances of possible obstruction, and explicitly left it in the hands of Congress to act on it in the manner they saw fit.
Delusional, either he did or he didnt if they have no prove, than the prove is in the pudding and he is innocent.
The whole narrative that innocent until proven guilty doesnt apply to trump (same as kavanaugh) because useful idiots bought into a narrative dont want it too apply is stupid, the view that trump has to prove he is innocent when there is no prove that he is guilty is really fucking out there.
"Hurr prove a negative that is already established by us not finding any prove durr!" Peak idiocy.
 
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Joe T.

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As a reminder:


"But the larger point that I'll, I, I want to emphasize here is that there is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even, you could even rig American elections, in part because they're so decentralized and the numbers of votes involved. There's no evidence that that has happened in the past or that there are instances in which that will happen this time and so I'd advise Mr. Trump to stop whining and go try to make his case to get votes."

Except there is evidence that shows creating false narratives - such as this Trump/Putin nonsense - and perpetuating them for weeks/months/years through a wide number of media outlets, news and entertainment alike, has convinced millions of Americans into accepting lies as the truth, effectively influencing their perception of the president. Does that not essentially deliver the same result as rigging an election (or elections, as it relates to the 2018 midterms)? Not too many Americans would vote for a racist, sexist, xenophobic monster they're convinced is a fascist dictator.

One of the silver linings to the polarized state of American politics is that the two sides are extremely critical of one another, so this Russian nonsense probably didn't turn too many Republicans against Trump despite the Democrats' best efforts.

 

dolabla

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Dems need to either put up or shut up. Either go for impeachment or not.

Good luck explaining how you obstruct what was a political hit job investigation where no crime exists. I'd really like to see this in action.
 
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Eiknarf

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Mueller outlined ten instances of possible obstruction, and explicitly left it in the hands of Congress to act on it in the manner they saw fit.
Not Congress but the DOJ, and they ruled no obstruction. Congress has no role in that determination. Now, they can decide to use this info for impeachment, but that’s it. And, though the House may impeach, it’s the Senate that must convict. Republicans control the Senate. It’s a no go.
 

MDS

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Mueller outlined ten instances of possible obstruction, and explicitly left it in the hands of Congress to act on it in the manner they saw fit.
The treatment of obstruction was a clear punt.

If they had evidence of collusion, or even if the evidence was ambiguous, they probably would have called it obstruction. Obstruction is the white collar version of "resisting arrest" where it's normally used as a tool to get someone who might get off on the charges they're actually guilty of or layer some extra time on someone they think deserves it for making their case harder or sometimes to just to be a punitive dick to someone who can't fight back. The investigation left them in the awkward position where Trump was both innocent of the underlying charge but guilty of obstruction. Trying an otherwise innocent person for obstruction/resisting-arrest is bad form, doing it to a president is fucking volatile.

I read the entire report and the subtext to Part II was "He's clearly guilty of obstruction but we don't want any part of this political mess. We're going to take the thin amount of legal ambiguity available and wash our hands of it. If you (Congress) want to take it up then it's up to you"
 
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Eiknarf

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Why is it wrong to obstruct an investigation that you know is bogus and unnecessary?!!!!????!!!
 

Xux

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@Xux, I always like to remind people who type these types of comments that I voted for President Trump. I did so voluntarily and was not "tricked" into anything. Does knowing that there is an actual person reading what you wrote make you feel any remorse? Do you think your aggressive tone is warranted? "Inbred losers".....pretty harsh man!
I don't believe willingly doing something stupid and immoral is very deserving of sympathy. I'd much more readily give the benefit of the doubt to someone with mental issues from a shallow gene pool or a religious upbringing.
 
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Panda1

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Mueller outlined ten instances of possible obstruction, and explicitly left it in the hands of Congress to act on it in the manner they saw fit.
why stop at 10, why not make up 10,000 'possible' casues of obstruction PMSL


spoiler alert : possible means none.
 

Barsinister

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I don't believe willingly doing something stupid and immoral is very deserving of sympathy. I'd much more readily give the benefit of the doubt to someone with mental issues from a shallow gene pool or a religious upbringing.
I can see why you would keep to your own. I do the same myself. Best of luck in all of your endeavors.
 
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Trey

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why stop at 10, why not make up 10,000 'possible' casues of obstruction PMSL


spoiler alert : possible means none.
The legal arguments were based on material the probe turned up, factual and secure. Whether you choose to acknowledge these things is another matter, but they aren't "made up."
 
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cryptoadam

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TBH impeaching for obstruction looks seriously desperate and sleazy at this point.

This whole partisan investigation was set up to try and overturn 2016 and the Democrats have dropped all pretenses at this point if they move forward.

You kept the investigation going for 2 years and invested 30 Million dollars because you though their was collusion with Russia. We needed to wait for Mueller. And now that Mueller said no collusion just move on.

Clearly this whole thing was a set up from day 1. Every one knows Trump is a hot head and Dems essentially laid a trap for him to do something stupid, but the people around him actually did their jobs and get him in check. How about we look at the collusion between HRC and the British/Russians by leaking this false dossier to the press. That certainly was a bigger attempt at influencing the election than anything Mueller was able to find on Trump. And all this Russian crap was started because HRC had her emails hacked. If HRC's emails never get leaked then we probably never get any Russia talk with all the Trump towers stuff.

2020 is a year and a half away, how about Democrats work on a viable candidate to take back the White House instead of failing to impeach Trump since Republicans will never vote for it. And if Trump is gone you get Mike Pence LOL. But we all know Democrats and the left/MSM are scared shitless of Trump because they know he is going to win 2020. Thats why they are salivating for impeachment on an scam investigation they instigated based on Hillary collusion, FBI/DOJ and Obama conspiracy, all because HRC had her emails leaked to WikiLeaks. And this all happened under Obama's watch, since 2014.
 

DeafTourette

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Why is it wrong to obstruct an investigation that you know is bogus and unnecessary?!!!!????!!!
If there is an actual investigation... It doesn't matter if you're innocent or guilty... Obstruction ITSELF is a crime.

ETA:

But since a sitting president is NEVER going to be prosecuted... Impeachment is the only one of 2 options... the second is not to impeach.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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If there is an actual investigation... It doesn't matter if you're innocent or guilty... Obstruction ITSELF is a crime.

ETA:

But since a sitting president is NEVER going to be prosecuted... Impeachment is the only one of 2 options... the second is not to impeach.
If it can be established that the investigation itself was based on specious and partisan reasons, then it's going to look silly pursuing obstruction.

"While we were investigating the president of the USA for fake treason concocted by his political opponents, he skirted the edge of the law, so we should impeach him for it!"

I asked this earlier: if the Captain suspects a mutiny and then restricts / attempts to restrict the activity of his officers, will the captain later be court-marshaled for it?
 
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autoduelist

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The fact that we're even seriously debating 'obstruction' is criminally stupid. The American public just got served two years of shit by the same people now shoveling 'obstruction'. Do not let the media define the narrative. He didn't collude. Take a step back, take back two years of believing Trump was a Russian agent out of your head if that's what you believed, and get ANGRY at the people who lied to you for years. YEARS.

Fuck obstruction. Hold the assholes who intentionally messed with your head for two years responsible. Stop letting them move goal posts.

Get mad as hell. Stop letting them control you. Don't let their endless lies define you.

 
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JORMBO

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Whenever I see someone stalking someone like that and just throwing an endless list of questions at them I wonder if they really expect an answer. What is the point of doing that?
 

cryptoadam

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If it can be established that the investigation itself was based on specious and partisan reasons, then it's going to look silly pursuing obstruction.

"While we were investigating the president of the USA for fake treason concocted by his political opponents, he skirted the edge of the law, so we should impeach him for it!"

I asked this earlier: if the Captain suspects a mutiny and then restricts / attempts to restrict the activity of his officers, will the captain later be court-marshaled for it?
Its just stupid and shows the Dems intention was never about Russian collusion or protecting American democracy. Heck this was happening for 2 years under Obama's nose.

This was always from day 1 about keeping Trump (or Republicans) out of the White House. And the fact that there are Dems who still want to impeach even though there is no collusion just shows it.

Dems shouted from the roof tops to wait for Mueller, and then Mueller delivers no collusion and now the goal post are moved to obstructing a crime that never happend on an investigation based on lies in an attempt to over turn 2016.

I think the attempted coup and talk about using the 25th should be of bigger concern then Trumps hot headness that never actually lead to the investigation being obstructed. At the end of the day Mueller got through the whole thing.
 

EviLore

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Whenever I see someone stalking someone like that and just throwing an endless list of questions at them I wonder if they really expect an answer. What is the point of doing that?
So they can report that someone made an accusation, they asked Robert Mueller to confirm, but he declined to comment. It shapes their narrative.
 

JORMBO

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So they can report that someone made an accusation, they asked Robert Mueller to confirm, but he declined to comment. It shapes their narrative.
I get that. But I don’t think any reasonable viewer is going to expect him to answer those types of serious questions while getting in his car to go to dinner.

But I guess we aren’t dealing with the most reasonable people :messenger_open_mouth:
 

Eiknarf

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cryptoadam

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DeafTourette

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One more thing .. about the obstruction of Justice accusation...

It's like me being arrested for resisting arrest but other than that charge, I'm innocent.

Edit: now back to gaming side as politics is emotionally and mentally draining.
 
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bigedole

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One more thing .. about the obstruction of Justice accusation...

It's like me being arrested for resisting arrest but other than that charge, I'm innocent.

Edit: now back to gaming side as politics is emotionally and mentally draining.
Your analogy is lacking. It's like you being arrested for pedophilia based on something your bitter ex wife of a very recent and very nasty divorce told the cops, you trying to get your neighbor and babysitter to tell them you're innocent while they're on your doorstep, and then them adding on resisting arrest.

That's what this obstruction charge is like. It's a fucking joke.
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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I admit I've not read the full report, but is there anything framed as "obstruction" other than Trump complaining on Twitter about the investigation and calling it a witch hunt?


I mean, obstruction of justice is not carried out in public view. It would actually be obstruction if Trump tried to bribe Mueller to quit or threatened the family of a witness or something.
 

cryptoadam

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I admit I've not read the full report, but is there anything framed as "obstruction" other than Trump complaining on Twitter about the investigation and calling it a witch hunt?


I mean, obstruction of justice is not carried out in public view. It would actually be obstruction if Trump tried to bribe Mueller to quit or threatened the family of a witness or something.
https://www.apnews.com/e0d125d737be4a21a81bec3d9f1dffd8

PRESSURE ON COMEY TO END PROBE OF MICHAEL FLYNN
This includes the president’s statement to then-FBI Director James Comey regarding the investigation of then-national security adviser Michael Flynn. Trump told Comey: “I hope you can see your way to letting this go.”

___
PRESIDENT’S REACTION TO THE CONTINUING RUSSIA INVESTIGATION
Among the evidence is the president telling then-White House counsel Don McGahn to stop Attorney General Jeff Sessions from recusing himself from the Russia investigation and Trump’s subsequent anger at Sessions. Trump also contacted Comey and other intelligence agency leaders to ask them to push back publicly on the suggestion that Trump had any connection to the Russian election-interference effort.
___
FIRING OF COMEY AND AFTERMATH
Mueller’s report says “substantial evidence” indicates Trump’s decision to fire Comey in May 2017 was the result of the FBI director’s unwillingness to say publicly that Trump was not personally under investigation. On the day after Trump fired Comey, the president told Russian officials that he had “faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

___
APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL AND EFFORTS TO REMOVE HIM
Trump reacted to news of Mueller’s appointment by telling advisers that it was “the end of his presidency.” The president told aides that Mueller had conflicts of interest and should have to step aside. His aides told Trump the asserted conflicts were meritless. Following media reports that Mueller’s team was investigating whether the president had obstructed justice, Trump called then-White House counsel Don McGahn at home and directed him to have Mueller removed. McGahn refused.
____
FURTHER EFFORTS TO CURTAIL THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’s INVESTIGATION
Trump instructed former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to have Sessions publicly announce that, notwithstanding his recusal from the Russia investigation, the investigation was “very unfair” to the president, the president had done nothing wrong, and Sessions planned to meet with Mueller to limit him to “investigating election meddling for future elections.”

___
EFFORTS TO PREVENT PUBLIC DISCLOSURE OF EVIDENCE
In summer of 2017, Trump learned that the news media planned to report on the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower between senior campaign officials and Russians offering derogatory information about Hillary Clinton. The president directed aides not to publicly disclose the emails setting up the meeting. Before the emails became public, the president also edited a press statement for Donald Trump Jr. by deleting a line that acknowledged that the meeting was “with an individual who (Trump Jr.) was told might have information helpful to the campaign.”
___
ADDITIONAL EFFORTS TO HAVE SESSIONS TAKE CONTROL OF INVESTIGATION
At several points in between July 2017 and December 2017, Trump tried to get Sessions to declare that he was no longer recused from the Russia investigation and would assert control over it. The report says there’s evidence that one purpose of asking Sessions to step in was so that the attorney general would restrict the investigation’s scope.
___
TRUMP ORDERS WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO DENY THAT PRESIDENT TRIED TO FIRE MUELLER
In an Oval Office meeting in February 2018, Trump told McGahn to “correct” a New York Times story that reported Trump had earlier instructed McGahn to fire Mueller. Trump also asked why McGahn had told Mueller’s investigators about the directive to remove Mueller. McGahn told Trump he had to tell the investigators the truth.
___
TRUMP’S ACTIONS TOWARD, FLYNN, MANAFORT AND OTHER POSSIBLE WITNESSES
Mueller looked at whether Trump’s sympathetic messages to Flynn, former campaign manager Paul Manafort and others were intended to limit their cooperation with Mueller’s investigation. When Flynn began cooperating with prosecutors, Trump passed word through his lawyer that he still had warm feeling for Flynn and asked for a “heads up” if Flynn knew of information implicating Trump. Trump praised Manafort during and after his criminal convictions, and refused to rule out a pardon for his former campaign chairman.
___
TRUMP ACTIONS TOWARD MICHAEL COHEN
Mueller noted that Trump’s conduct toward Cohen, a former Trump Organization executive, changed from praise to castigation after Cohen began cooperating with prosecutors. The evidence could “support an inference that the president used inducements in the form of positive messages in an effort to get Cohen not to cooperate, and then turned to attacks and intimidation to deter” cooperation and undermine Cohen’s credibility, Mueller wrote.
In all of those I don't see anything that stopped the investigation or obstructed it. A lot of it is things he didn't want the press to report, or things after the fact. Like castigation against Cohen, well DUH, Cohen was calling Trump a POS and racist, yet before that he was Trumps closest confident for 10 years.

Wanting to limit the scope of the investigation? NO shit, look at Manafort who went broke and is spending his old age in jail because the investigation into Russian collusion somehow nailed him for tax fraud during his time in the Ukraine during Obama's administration. Of course Trump doesn't want every single person he knows and his family having their lives turned upside down with nothing to do with Russia.

But bottom line is Mueller chickend out and said he couldn't conclude either way. If he thought it was a slam dunk for obstruction then he would of said so. Instead he left the door open for Dems to play this in the media.

But if the dems think Mueller found evidence of obstruction they need to nut up and impeach already. Put their dicks on the table and go all in. If not they are just wasting more time trying to smear Trump running up to 2020.
 

dolabla

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President Trump asserted executive privilege on Wednesday in a bid to protect Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s unredacted report and underlying documents from subpoena by the House Judiciary Committee.

The president’s move came after the Justice Department, late Tuesday night, requested that the House Judiciary Committee postpone a scheduled vote on to hold Attorney General Bill Barr in contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena to provide the Mueller files to the panel. The Justice Department warned that if the committee did not postpone the vote, the attorney general would recommend that Trump claim executive privilege over the materials.

On Wednesday, the White House did just that.

"The Attorney General has been transparent and accommodating throughout this process, including by releasing the no-collusion, no-conspiracy, no-obstruction Mueller Report to the public and offering to testify before the Committee. These attempts to work with the Committee have been flatly rejected. They didn’t like the results of the report, and now they want a redo," press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement on Wednesday.

"Faced with Chairman Nadler’s blatant abuse of power, and at the Attorney General’s request, the President has no other option than to make a protective assertion of executive privilege,” she continued.

Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd, who wrote to committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., on Tuesday night, sent a follow-up letter to him on Wednesday morning saying the same.

“We are disappointed that you have rejected the Department of Justice’s request to delay the vote of the Committee on the Judiciary on a contempt finding against the Attorney General this morning,” Boyd wrote, adding that the committee has “terminated our ongoing negotiations and abandoned the accommodation process” related to the subpoena.

“Unfortunately, rather than allowing negotiations to continue, you scheduled an unnecessary contempt vote, which you refused to postpone to allow additional time for compromise,” Boyd wrote Wednesday morning. “Accordingly, this is to advise you that the President has asserted executive privilege over the entirety of the subpoenaed materials. As I indicated in my letter to you last night, this protective assertion of executive privilege ensures the President’s ability to make a final decision whether to assert privilege following a full review of these materials.”
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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cryptoadam

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Keep in mind under the law Barr was not required to release 1 word of the Mueller report redacted or not. He had no obligation to do so.
 
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transformer

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Keep in mind under the law Barr was not required to release 1 word of the Mueller report redacted or not. He had no obligation to do so.
Not only that, but he released everything that he was legally able to. The only redactions were based on legal limitations. And now a large number of democrats want him impeached and thrown in prison for doing this and discussing the results of the investigation. They have literally lost their minds.
 

cryptoadam

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Not only that, but he released everything that he was legally able to. The only redactions were based on legal limitations. And now a large number of democrats want him impeached and thrown in prison for doing this and discussing the results of the investigation. They have literally lost their minds.
I don't know about losing their minds, they are doing what their comrades have done, lock up your political opponents.