Mueller Report Released - No collusion or obstruction of justice found

cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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Think of how the left is constantly screaming that Trump is "Putin's bitch" when Bush was literally prancing through a field of flowers holding hands with a Saudi scumbag.

Strange how we never got memes about Bush being a "Saudi bitch" back then.
Well lets not go that far, there was plenty of push back against Bush and his Saudi connections. Micheal Moore made an entire movie about Saudi/Bush/9-11 connection.

I don't know if the media was up Bush's ass as much as Trump, but Bush was very very hated across the world. Especially after the Iraq war. This guy was literally called Hitler 2.0. If you go back and watch media from the time you can also see how much Bush was mocked for being a coke head or being an idiot. Remember him reading to kids on 9/11 and all the jokes and then conspiracy's that came out of that. Which another point a whole wack of idiots believed that Bush was behind 9/11.

I think a more apropos comparison would be Obama's hot mic issue

 

Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
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Look, I can do math. It's not a lie that Trump supporters have a local advantage here, numerically speaking.

I've never thought of Trump as a "Russian puppet" or "spy" so your post doesn't apply to my way of thinking. I might accuse him of being too fond and friendly towards dictators, including Putin, but he's not a puppet per se. If anything, it's more like a combination of envy and respect. Trump wishes he had such power over his country.

To address your post, I doubt Mueller was hiding some sort of smoking gun all along, at least not in the way most people think about it. The report might have some bullet shells though. More than what Republicans are prepared to admit, as seen by the reactions and the extremely selective memory of events as illustrated by the responses to my point (which are full of Fox News talking points and essentially reflect the responses given by White House spokespersons during interviews, such as pretending that only Democrats worked for Mueller or that qualified personnel should be rejected only for belonging to the opposing party...does that mean that only Republicans or Trump loyalists are fit to investigate?), but less than what Democrats were hoping for. Once again, I've never been a believer for the extreme version of the "Russia collusion" scenario.

I imagine some of you would even claim the Mueller report is "wrong" or "lying" even if all it did was list, in great detail, every single event and incident that ties back to the investigation.
good argument has a local advantage here, numerically speaking
 

Madonis

Member
Oct 21, 2018
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Then you're a coward, because the "extreme version" (you know, the version that included accusations of traitor, puppet, slave to Putin, etc) is the whole reason this investigation was started.

If you have morals, you should admit when your politicians fucked up. This is a fuckup.
Oh, I'd call myself a coward for other reasons (say, I prefer survival and imprisonment over dying as a hero). But for this? It's not really applicable. I also think you're confusing what the media has said and what the actual investigators have said. They're two different things, even when they overlap to a degree, so you're not really making a good point if what you're claiming is the Mueller investigation was exclusively based on media reports about Trump's Russia connections.

My low opinion of Trump's character has never been a secret. I've expressed that before. If I didn't say anything about the topic now, then I'd be both inconsistent and a liar.

I never thought the election was "stolen" by Russia. I don't take that scenario seriously. But again, for the Nth time, that doesn't mean Russia did nothing, or that what they did was somehow good.

I also don't think you should speak for the "rest of the country" when U.S. public opinion is very divided and, at this particular point in time, we are in a period of transition. We'll move on, but not necessarily today.

You can't have your cake and eat it to, if you never thought there was collusion then you supported a useless and wasteful witch hunt because you don't like Trump and thing he is a poo poo head.
Presenting the only choices as "Russia collusion" or "witch hunt" is a false dilemma. Reality isn't so simple.

good argument has a local advantage here, numerically speaking
No human being can claim to be perfectly unbiased or truly neutral. Arguments alone aren't enough.

There was a recent report, which I can't find right now, showing people from both sides of the ideological divide are often skeptical towards scientific facts when they contradict their own beliefs. Therefore, it's not enough to have a "better" argument or at least a more "truthful" one in order to convince someone. You all know about confirmation bias, I imagine, so that's also a factor.

Within this particular community, there is a vocal and significant number of Trump supporters. Conversely, other communities have a vocal and significant number of Trump critics. Both of those can be confirmed.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Well lets not go that far, there was plenty of push back against Bush and his Saudi connections. Micheal Moore made an entire movie about Saudi/Bush/9-11 connection.

I don't know if the media was up Bush's ass as much as Trump, but Bush was very very hated across the world. Especially after the Iraq war. This guy was literally called Hitler 2.0. If you go back and watch media from the time you can also see how much Bush was mocked for being a coke head or being an idiot. Remember him reading to kids on 9/11 and all the jokes and then conspiracy's that came out of that. Which another point a whole wack of idiots believed that Bush was behind 9/11.

I think a more apropos comparison would be Obama's hot mic issue

How many late night shows in the 00s made regular jokes about Bush taking Saudi cock up the ass, like Colbert has done with Trump? Obviously there were some ideologically consistent people at the time, but the way the media as a whole has ran with the "Russia controls Trump" shit is entirely different from how they report actual foreign interference, like the Saudis with Bush, Obama, and even Trump.

I also do not remember the media constantly talking about how to get Bush removed from office for his plethora of screw-ups like 9/11 - they made fun of him reading that book upside down and all his other gaffes, but they were never doing things like claiming those gaffes were proof of Bush being dementiated and unfit for office. Speaking of 9/11, 9/11 conspiracy theorists were knocked down by the media very consistently - that is when "truther" became a derogative. Even now just suggesting that Bush and company profited from 9/11 makes people furious.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Oh, I'd call myself a coward for other reasons (say, I prefer survival and imprisonment over dying as a hero). But for this? It's not really applicable. I also think you're confusing what the media has said and what the actual investigators have said. They're two different things, even when they overlap to a degree, so you're not really making a good point if what you're claiming is the Mueller investigation was exclusively based on media reports about Trump's Russia connections.

My low opinion of Trump's character has never been a secret. I've expressed that before. If I didn't say anything about the topic now, then I'd be both inconsistent and a liar.

I never thought the election was "stolen" by Russia. I don't take that scenario seriously. But again, for the Nth time, that doesn't mean Russia did nothing, or that what they did was somehow good.

I also don't think you should speak for the "rest of the country" when U.S. public opinion is very divided and, at this particular point in time, we are in a period of transition. We'll move on, but not necessarily today.
I'm simply hoping that we can move on when it comes to this particular issue since there's no real reason not to. Imagine if Obama's birth certificate resulted in an ongoing investigation and blocking of his appointments for years while the Republicans investigated. I'm glad that we moved on then and we should be glad to move on now to argue about the actual issues of policy where you disagree with the political opposition.

Plenty on the Left have valid criticism's of Trump's behavior and his policies. We should be focusing on those issues instead of this nothingburger frenzy over falsified claims.

Do you want to debate the Wall or keep worrying about Trump/Russia collusion? Do you want to debate Green New Deal or keep worrying if the President is a spy? It's your choice. Failing to engage with these topics and sticking to a fake accusation is only going to weaken your side. By all means, remain in the conspiracy basement with the other russiagate theorists.

Surely people who support Trump and oppose Trump can both come together when it comes to the false accusations. That doesn't mean they have to agree on everything else.
 
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Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
Dec 7, 2008
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Oh, I'd call myself a coward for other reasons (say, I prefer survival and imprisonment over dying as a hero). But for this? It's not really applicable. I also think you're confusing what the media has said and what the actual investigators have said. They're two different things, even when they overlap to a degree, so you're not really making a good point if what you're claiming is the Mueller investigation was exclusively based on media reports about Trump's Russia connections.

My low opinion of Trump's character has never been a secret. I've expressed that before. If I didn't say anything about the topic now, then I'd be both inconsistent and a liar.

I never thought the election was "stolen" by Russia. I don't take that scenario seriously. But again, for the Nth time, that doesn't mean Russia did nothing, or that what they did was somehow good.

I also don't think you should speak for the "rest of the country" when U.S. public opinion is very divided and, at this particular point in time, we are in a period of transition. We'll move on, but not necessarily today.



No human being can claim to be perfectly unbiased or truly neutral. Arguments alone aren't enough.

There was a recent report, which I can't find right now, showing people from both sides of the ideological divide are often skeptical towards scientific facts when they contradict their own beliefs. Therefore, it's not enough to have a "better" argument in order to convince someone. You all know about confirmation bias, I imagine, so that's also a factor.

Within this particular community, there is a vocal and significant number of Trump supporters. Conversely, other communities have a vocal and significant number of Trump critics. Both of those can be confirmed.
feel free to confirm it then, if it's so absolute.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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How many late night shows in the 00s made regular jokes about Bush taking Saudi cock up the ass, like Colbert has done with Trump? Obviously there were some ideologically consistent people at the time, but the way the media as a whole has ran with the "Russia controls Trump" shit is entirely different from how they report actual foreign interference, like the Saudis with Bush, Obama, and even Trump.
I will admit I don't remember 100% from back then, I think most of the Bush stuff was that he loved coke and had the brain of a 5th grader.

But Bush did get some licks for his Saudi connections, especially with 9/11 conspiracy nuts who wanted to pin 9/11 on Bush.

But if it was Trump back then they would of gone full force Trump planned 9/11 because he held a Saudi's hand and was in the oil business and they would of demanded a special investigation etc...

Trump has gotten it hard for sure. But Bush wasn't completely left off the hook either. Only Obama managed to get off clean from the MSM even though he has links to the MB, and gave a free pass to Hizbullah in regards to their drug smuggling and money laundering because of his Iran deal.
 

infinitys_7th

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Oct 1, 2006
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I will admit I don't remember 100% from back then, I think most of the Bush stuff was that he loved coke and had the brain of a 5th grader.

But Bush did get some licks for his Saudi connections, especially with 9/11 conspiracy nuts who wanted to pin 9/11 on Bush.

But if it was Trump back then they would of gone full force Trump planned 9/11 because he held a Saudi's hand and was in the oil business and they would of demanded a special investigation etc...

Trump has gotten it hard for sure. But Bush wasn't completely left off the hook either. Only Obama managed to get off clean from the MSM even though he has links to the MB, and gave a free pass to Hizbullah in regards to their drug smuggling and money laundering because of his Iran deal.
That goes towards the rest of the post - if Bush was coke-addled and was mentally disabled, wouldn't he be unfit for office just like someone with dementia? Yet 00s pundits never talked about removing him like they have with Trump (outside of some fringe people like Moore). I remember it all pretty clearly because I was hugely political back then (elementary school/middle school).

I haven't formulated these posts that well, unfortunately, but what I am trying to say tl;dr is that Trump has an unprecedented level of malice and criticism directed at him by the left-wing media that no other president has ever gotten.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I haven't formulated these posts that well, unfortunately, but what I am trying to say tl;dr is that Trump has an unprecedented level of malice and criticism directed at him by the left-wing media that no other president has ever gotten.
Your assessment is correct and Pew already proved it:

 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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That goes towards the rest of the post - if Bush was coke-addled and was mentally disabled, wouldn't he be unfit for office just like someone with dementia? Yet 00s pundits never talked about removing him like they have with Trump (outside of some fringe people like Moore). I remember it all pretty clearly because I was hugely political back then (elementary school/middle school).

I haven't formulated these posts that well, unfortunately, but what I am trying to say tl;dr is that Trump has an unprecedented level of malice and criticism directed at him by the left-wing media that no other president has ever gotten.
Trump level of malice is unprecedented, but I think its close. Actually one of my first threads on here was a who was hated more Trump or Bush. I think most said Trump, but TBH I think its pretty dang close.

Lets just agree that both of them got it pretty bad from the media and both were attacked and made out to be idiot retards that are paid/bought off by someone else (Trump-Russia, Bush-Oil money). Both were compared to Hitler and both had EU citizens hating on them. I think we can debate till the end of time which was worse, but its like saying what is worse a pile of horse shit or a pile of cow shit.

But its like then there was an 8 year period where the MSM went away and stopped attacking and all the stories were positive. Don't know what happened in those 8 years between Bush and Trump. Someone might have to jog my memory...
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I love how the concern is that it "could signal start political war", as if it's just an unfortunate disagreement that parties don't see eye-to-eye on the issue.

No, shitbrains. It's a chance to move on or a chance to cling to conspiracy. The only way it would start a "political war" is if ideologues continue to double-down on lies.

The investigation is closed. Trump isn't in chains.

Either Mueller is knowingly allowing a Russian spy to continue holding office, or Trump isn't a traitor. There's no other explanation at this point.
 
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Are all the unhinged people that were yelling russian troll or useful idiot at everyone that doubted this going to apologize now? Good job going along with a conspiracy theory for years when theres plenty of legit reasons to criticize Trump.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Sep 4, 2018
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Mueller is the guy that helped sell us the Iraq War, a war that everyone famously hated, a war that is still used to blame W for being the worst president ever. a war that was only voted for by one 2016 Candidate, Hillary Clinton, who coincidentally lost.

Donald Trump has been presented as an idiot, a forgetful man, possible illiterate (Samantha Bee has an extended riff shaming on illiteracy), who is bad with money, who makes bad deals constantly, who is a shady person, who is loud and brash. he should have thousands of personal enemies at this point. there must be mountains of evidence showing up from people all over the world who this crooked businessman has screwed over.

so having the top FBI guy investigate this total idiot fraud for two years, they MUST find something on him. IMO US business and financial law has long been so crooked that anything he may have done likely has layers and layers of legal red tape barring him from liability. like our torture programs and drone programs and child cages, they are legalized through the magic of DC lawyers.

Trump is the personal version of Corporations Are People My Friend. he basically is his own company, his own brand, and he somehow fuses that craven capitalism into a shield. he is a modern avatar of capitalism.
 
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wzy

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Dec 29, 2018
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Embryo American fascism is trying to direct the disillusionment and discontent of these masses into reactionary fascist channels. It is a peculiarity of the development of American fascism that at the present stage it comes forward principally in the guise of an opposition to fascism, which it accuses of being an "un-American" trend imported from abroad. In contradistinction to German fascism, which acts under anti-constitutional slogans, American fascism tries to portray itself as the custodian of the Constitution and "American democracy." It does not as yet represent a directly menacing force. But if it succeeds in penetrating the wide masses who have become disillusioned with the old bourgeois parties, it may become a serious menace in the very near future.
Check out this communist absolutely nailing it almost a century ago. How much has really changed? The American liberal left has a long-standing policy of never learning anything from their Eastern cousins, which means they fall for shit no one else on the entire planet is stupid enough to fall for. I don't say this lightly or out of some half-cocked contrarianism: Democrats are fascist-adjacent in the best case scenario, which is how they find such easy allies throughout the global fascist bloc, including Clinton's pet Banderites and their patrons within the Western diaspora. It's also why they get into bed so eagerly with a state intelligence apparatus that spent most of its 20th-century history shepherding post-war fascist movements away from their deserved retribution in Europe.

That's not to absolve the political right. The "troubling parallels" between Hitler and channer with a Hitler mustache are easy enough to draw, even without an army of bloggers guiding the voters to that conclusion. The point, rather, is to get beyond the grade school pattern-recognition of liberal rhetoric surrounding the Trump administration and just look at the real origins of the #resistance ideology, because when you drill down deep enough, the infallible tendency of anti-Russian sentiment is that sooner or later you're going to find Goebbels. So when Clapper is telling everyone the "Soviets" are to blame, and Donna Brazile is on Twitter saying "the commies are controlling things now", and this vile, mush-mouthed idiot is fondly reminiscing about Barbarossa on national television to riotous laughter and applause, these aren't just "oopsies". It's a cascade failure of basic morality at every level of society, deliberately engineered in response to the crisis of the neoliberal era.

I know this board is mostly right-wingers obsessed (ludicrously) with the influence of "cultural Marxism", regurgitating Conquest and Solzhenitsyn via Rogan and Peterson with the gentle assistance of what we'll just agree to call "off-label" medication; I'm speaking here to the liberal stay-behind mission who are still capable of being reached: the point of positioning Trump as a Russian agent is not so much to indict him of being a pawn in some post-Cold War geopolitical maneuvering, but rather to sever the connection between Trump and America, or "the West"; to set the two in opposition. He's a deviant of some kind; an aberration. He's something new and scary and foreign to American culture. He's patient zero in the great contagion of "authoritarian" ideology facilitated by the global exchange of the Internet. This category of analysis reached its nadir, I think, when political art emerged depicting Trump and Putin as lusting faggots--a word I use here to illustrate the intended message of the work, not because I think it's anything less than a reprehensible slur. That says everything, it seems to me, about the shallow, reactionary character of these opposition movements, and the only conclusion I'm left with is the stuff of nightmares: that the questionable authenticity of Trump's "outsider" branding was provided entirely by his critics, who accused of him in so many words of being an Oriental strongman, incapable of understanding the principles and practices of Western democracy.

Anyone can see that Trump is as American as apple pie; it takes a sustained and coordinated media effort to convince people he's actually a Russian, and even then only some people were dumb enough to fall for it. The reason you specifically bought into this crap, Russia conspiracy poster, when everyone else could see it was preposterous, is because your own opposition to fascism is malformed and largely for public consumption. It's a disguise; a Che Guevara t-shirt designed to bypass the content filters of women at concerts. You select for American chauvinism in politics because it buys you American imperialism in practice, which is how you get an 8-year-old to sew those t-shirts in the first place and how you make a hero out of a woman whose White House legacy is unbridled carnage. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." We should all be thankful Upton Sinclair didn't live in a time when it was fashionable to fret about fake news and the pernicious influence of foreign thought in American discourse, or he might have been de-platformed and excommunicated before he ever got the opportunity to drop this bomb. This isn't mind control. You arrive at the politics that suit your (material) interests, and then you take whatever moral high ground is available.

The way to get out of this pattern--to stop getting blind-sided by the electoral winds and sunk into the performative despair of charlatans like Maddow who argue passionately and earnestly for nothing better than more competent steward of blood-soaked American hegemony--is to figure out what those interests are, to take a clear-eyed look at your own bottom line, and to oppose yourself. Absolutely nothing else is going to work. Certainly not some cynical, moronic, legalistic coup based on a conspiracy theory, which is what this whole thing is.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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Check out this communist absolutely nailing it almost a century ago. How much has really changed? The American liberal left has a long-standing policy of never learning anything from their Eastern cousins, which means they fall for shit no one else on the entire planet is stupid enough to fall for. I don't say this lightly or out of some half-cocked contrarianism: Democrats are fascist-adjacent in the best case scenario, which is how they find such easy allies throughout the global fascist bloc, including Clinton's pet Banderites and their patrons within the Western diaspora. It's also why they get into bed so eagerly with a state intelligence apparatus that spent most of its 20th-century history shepherding post-war fascist movements away from their deserved retribution in Europe.

That's not to absolve the political right. The "troubling parallels" between Hitler and channer with a Hitler mustache are easy enough to draw, even without an army of bloggers guiding the voters to that conclusion. The point, rather, is to get beyond the grade school pattern-recognition of liberal rhetoric surrounding the Trump administration and just look at the real origins of the #resistance ideology, because when you drill down deep enough, the infallible tendency of anti-Russian sentiment is that sooner or later you're going to find Goebbels. So when Clapper is telling everyone the "Soviets" are to blame, and Donna Brazile is on Twitter saying "the commies are controlling things now", and this vile, mush-mouthed idiot is fondly reminiscing about Barbarossa on national television to riotous laughter and applause, these aren't just "oopsies". It's a cascade failure of basic morality at every level of society, deliberately engineered in response to the crisis of the neoliberal era.

I know this board is mostly right-wingers obsessed (ludicrously) with the influence of "cultural Marxism", regurgitating Conquest and Solzhenitsyn via Rogan and Peterson with the gentle assistance of what we'll just agree to call "off-label" medication; I'm speaking here to the liberal stay-behind mission who are still capable of being reached: the point of positioning Trump as a Russian agent is not so much to indict him of being a pawn in some post-Cold War geopolitical maneuvering, but rather to sever the connection between Trump and America, or "the West"; to set the two in opposition. He's a deviant of some kind; an aberration. He's something new and scary and foreign to American culture. He's patient zero in the great contagion of "authoritarian" ideology facilitated by the global exchange of the Internet. This category of analysis reached its nadir, I think, when political art emerged depicting Trump and Putin as lusting faggots--a word I use here to illustrate the intended message of the work, not because I think it's anything less than a reprehensible slur. That says everything, it seems to me, about the shallow, reactionary character of these opposition movements, and the only conclusion I'm left with is the stuff of nightmares: that the questionable authenticity of Trump's "outsider" branding was provided entirely by his critics, who accused of him in so many words of being an Oriental strongman, incapable of understanding the principles and practices of Western democracy.

Anyone can see that Trump is as American as apple pie; it takes a sustained and coordinated media effort to convince people he's actually a Russian, and even then only some people were dumb enough to fall for it. The reason you specifically bought into this crap, Russia conspiracy poster, when everyone else could see it was preposterous, is because your own opposition to fascism is malformed and largely for public consumption. It's a disguise; a Che Guevara t-shirt designed to bypass the content filters of women at concerts. You select for American chauvinism in politics because it buys you American imperialism in practice, which is how you get an 8-year-old to sew those t-shirts in the first place and how you make a hero out of a woman whose White House legacy is unbridled carnage. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." We should all be thankful Upton Sinclair didn't live in a time when it was fashionable to fret about fake news and the pernicious influence of foreign thought in American discourse, or he might have been de-platformed and excommunicated before he ever got the opportunity to drop this bomb. This isn't mind control. You arrive at the politics that suit your (material) interests, and then you take whatever moral high ground is available.

The way to get out of this pattern--to stop getting blind-sided by the electoral winds and sunk into the performative despair of charlatans like Maddow who argue passionately and earnestly for nothing better than more competent steward of blood-soaked American hegemony--is to figure out what those interests are, to take a clear-eyed look at your own bottom line, and to oppose yourself. Absolutely nothing else is going to work. Certainly not some cynical, moronic, legalistic coup based on a conspiracy theory, which is what this whole thing is.
Dang.



This was very entertaining to read, even though I can only relate to some of it.
 

ViceUniverse

Member
Mar 12, 2019
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Are all the unhinged people that were yelling russian troll or useful idiot at everyone that doubted this going to apologize now? Good job going along with a conspiracy theory for years when theres plenty of legit reasons to criticize Trump.
Trump has been criticized for everything under the sun and it still isn't enough according to liberals. But it's sad that we won't get to see the details of the report.
 

xStoyax

Member
Oct 29, 2017
380
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The new coping mechanism.

"Mueller was just a side show, the real show is the investigation in New York"


Right....a state is gonna do with the Federal Government & highly biased FBI was unable to do....
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
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Anyone catch that short New York Times ad that plays in between YouTube sometimes? Holy shit, from the music to the audio cuts, to the flashes of pictures focused on Trump, you would swear as a conspiracy theory video talking about lizard people and Amanda Bynes.

It's brand new, so they're already gearing up for something else, lol.

Partisan propaganda gonna ganda!
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Apr 18, 2018
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Holy crap "i have a tv" ahaha

Truly marvelous to watch.

I feel bad for people who've put their trust in these spineless charlatans.

Admit it. You were wrong. You're only adding credence to the deep state/biased media accusations against you.

The only way forward is to admit it was a lie.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
21,449
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685
Check out this communist absolutely nailing it almost a century ago. How much has really changed? The American liberal left has a long-standing policy of never learning anything from their Eastern cousins, which means they fall for shit no one else on the entire planet is stupid enough to fall for. I don't say this lightly or out of some half-cocked contrarianism: Democrats are fascist-adjacent in the best case scenario, which is how they find such easy allies throughout the global fascist bloc, including Clinton's pet Banderites and their patrons within the Western diaspora. It's also why they get into bed so eagerly with a state intelligence apparatus that spent most of its 20th-century history shepherding post-war fascist movements away from their deserved retribution in Europe.

That's not to absolve the political right. The "troubling parallels" between Hitler and channer with a Hitler mustache are easy enough to draw, even without an army of bloggers guiding the voters to that conclusion. The point, rather, is to get beyond the grade school pattern-recognition of liberal rhetoric surrounding the Trump administration and just look at the real origins of the #resistance ideology, because when you drill down deep enough, the infallible tendency of anti-Russian sentiment is that sooner or later you're going to find Goebbels. So when Clapper is telling everyone the "Soviets" are to blame, and Donna Brazile is on Twitter saying "the commies are controlling things now", and this vile, mush-mouthed idiot is fondly reminiscing about Barbarossa on national television to riotous laughter and applause, these aren't just "oopsies". It's a cascade failure of basic morality at every level of society, deliberately engineered in response to the crisis of the neoliberal era.

I know this board is mostly right-wingers obsessed (ludicrously) with the influence of "cultural Marxism", regurgitating Conquest and Solzhenitsyn via Rogan and Peterson with the gentle assistance of what we'll just agree to call "off-label" medication; I'm speaking here to the liberal stay-behind mission who are still capable of being reached: the point of positioning Trump as a Russian agent is not so much to indict him of being a pawn in some post-Cold War geopolitical maneuvering, but rather to sever the connection between Trump and America, or "the West"; to set the two in opposition. He's a deviant of some kind; an aberration. He's something new and scary and foreign to American culture. He's patient zero in the great contagion of "authoritarian" ideology facilitated by the global exchange of the Internet. This category of analysis reached its nadir, I think, when political art emerged depicting Trump and Putin as lusting faggots--a word I use here to illustrate the intended message of the work, not because I think it's anything less than a reprehensible slur. That says everything, it seems to me, about the shallow, reactionary character of these opposition movements, and the only conclusion I'm left with is the stuff of nightmares: that the questionable authenticity of Trump's "outsider" branding was provided entirely by his critics, who accused of him in so many words of being an Oriental strongman, incapable of understanding the principles and practices of Western democracy.

Anyone can see that Trump is as American as apple pie; it takes a sustained and coordinated media effort to convince people he's actually a Russian, and even then only some people were dumb enough to fall for it. The reason you specifically bought into this crap, Russia conspiracy poster, when everyone else could see it was preposterous, is because your own opposition to fascism is malformed and largely for public consumption. It's a disguise; a Che Guevara t-shirt designed to bypass the content filters of women at concerts. You select for American chauvinism in politics because it buys you American imperialism in practice, which is how you get an 8-year-old to sew those t-shirts in the first place and how you make a hero out of a woman whose White House legacy is unbridled carnage. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." We should all be thankful Upton Sinclair didn't live in a time when it was fashionable to fret about fake news and the pernicious influence of foreign thought in American discourse, or he might have been de-platformed and excommunicated before he ever got the opportunity to drop this bomb. This isn't mind control. You arrive at the politics that suit your (material) interests, and then you take whatever moral high ground is available.

The way to get out of this pattern--to stop getting blind-sided by the electoral winds and sunk into the performative despair of charlatans like Maddow who argue passionately and earnestly for nothing better than more competent steward of blood-soaked American hegemony--is to figure out what those interests are, to take a clear-eyed look at your own bottom line, and to oppose yourself. Absolutely nothing else is going to work. Certainly not some cynical, moronic, legalistic coup based on a conspiracy theory, which is what this whole thing is.
I will say, the board is not mostly right-wingers. It is just people not so far gone left into authoritarianism. So anybody appearing right of that far left gets the label applied it seems. Most people on here remind me of the Liberals of 15-20 years ago.
 

wzy

Member
Dec 29, 2018
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I will say, the board is not mostly right-wingers. It is just people not so far gone left into authoritarianism. So anybody appearing right of that far left gets the label applied it seems. Most people on here remind me of the Liberals of 15-20 years ago.
Fair enough! I made the mistake of posting just before I had to go somewhere and pressing the button as I walked out the door. I'll do my homework before I say anything else, hopefully it's easy to understand how someone could get that impression.
 
Jun 26, 2013
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Fair enough! I made the mistake of posting just before I had to go somewhere and pressing the button as I walked out the door. I'll do my homework before I say anything else, hopefully it's easy to understand how someone could get that impression.
I suggest checking out the political compass thread. It'll give you a good idea of GAF's political landscape.
 

desertdroog

Member
Aug 12, 2008
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Anyone get the sneaking suspicion that President Donald Trump has ties to the United States of America?
 

SoulChamber

Member
Sep 19, 2018
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That’s an embarrassing post but to use the word cultist when your side (I assume) has been screaming at the sky, wearing uuterus hats on their heads, and trying to ban air travel and cows, yours comes off just as bad.
Oh, please. Your side comes off as incredibly annoying as hell at every turn, every single day.

People like you will always praise Trump at every turn while finding absolutely no faults within him whatsoever & will never hold him accountable for anything.

Most sane people are sick of that shit. And you wonder why many of them are retaliating against Trump supporters now while Trump supporters now need safe spaces.
 
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Dev1lXYZ

Member
Sep 1, 2017
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Oh, please. Your side comes off as incredibly annoying as hell at every turn, every single day.

People like you will always praise Trump at every turn while finding absolutely no faults within him whatsoever & will never hold him accountable for anything.

Most sane people are sick of that shit. And you wonder why many of them are retaliating against Trump supporters now while Trump supporters now need safe spaces.


I praise Trump because he’s the best president this country has had in the past 18 years. He isn’t sending troops off to die. He is making our economy better. I mean with you being a minority and all, you should be happy that he has boosted minority employment beyond what the past two posers to hold the position have. Maybe minorities don’t have to join the military to get ahead in life. Maybe they can live their dreams without involving the government in any way shape or form. He is the best friend minorities have had in DECADES. He isn’t for keeping the Black (wo)man or the Hispanic (wo)man or the Asian (wo)man down so the White (wo)man can get ahead for a change. He raises us ALL of US up! I’m sorry that Obama didn’t do it as good as him. I wish that he had. That’s why I voted for Obama the first time around. He didn’t. Obama failed where Trump has succeeded. Take the blinders off dude and join us in Making America Great Again, and the BEST IT HAS EVER BEEN in our lifetime! Join us, brother! Come on down the aisle! We welcome ALL people with open arms! Stop fighting us. Just stop for a second and look around. Life is a whole lot better. WAKE UP, NEO.
 
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SoulChamber

Member
Sep 19, 2018
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I praise Trump because he’s the best president this country has had in the past 18 years. He isn’t sending troops off to die. He is making our economy better. I mean with you being a minority and all, you should be happy that he has boosted minority employment beyond what the past two posers to hold the position have.
Trump has done none of that shit; He just only took credit for Obama's work.

Link 1.

Link 2.

Link 3.

Link 4.

Link 5.

Maybe minorities don’t have to join the military to get ahead in life. Maybe they can live their dreams without involving the government in any way shape or form. He is the best friend minorities have had in DECADES. He isn’t for keeping the Black (wo)man or the Hispanic (wo)man or the Asian (wo)man down so the White (wo)man can get ahead for a change. He raises us ALL of US up!
Oh, really? Trump has had a history of racism; Before & during his presidency (Central Park 5 being a big example). Even his own ex-lawyer called him out on it not too long ago during his testimony at the House of Representatives.

Plus did you forget that he threw out Omarosa & called her a "dog?" Yeah, some "friend." He's nobody's friend, minority or not. All he cares about is himself & money.

Link 1.

Link 2.

Link 3.

Link 4.

Link 5.

I’m sorry that Obama didn’t do it as good as him. I wish that he had. That’s why I voted for Obama the first time around. He didn’t. Obama failed where Trump has succeeded. Take the blinders off dude and join us in Making America Great Again, and the BEST IT HAS EVER BEEN in our lifetime! Join us, brother! Come on down the aisle! We welcome ALL people with open arms! Stop fighting us. Just stop for a second and look around. Life is a whole lot better. WAKE UP, NEO.
No thanks. I'm not delusional like you.
 
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Bolivar687

Member
Jun 13, 2014
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I'm just going to leave some thoughts before the early fallout starts tomorrow...

First, the end of the indictments does not mean Trump is clear, as a President should be impeached first, and then indicted. This has gone on for so long, with so many peripheral people targeted, and so many financial forensics expertise brought in that I would be legitimately shocked if there were no ethical improprieties reported, at the very least. It's just so premature to see Democrats deflated or Trumpists triumphant.

Second, William Barr is going to handle this with pristine care, and it's likely the only reason he's been brought on as AG. He's been in this forever and his personal relationship with Mueller goes way back. Like Brett Kavanaugh, Barr's appointment should have been a clear and obvious olive branch to Democrats, and anyone accusing him of cronyism is a fool.

Lastly, if there is any nexus established, the criminal implications will be catastrophic. I always suspected that the only reason the two dozen or so Russians were indicted, despite the fact that none of them will ever face trial in the United States, is so that any Americans connected to them will be prosecuted with the full breadth of criminal activity of the entire conspiracy.
 
Aug 29, 2018
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Trump may be cleared or not... But it is far from a "fucking scam".

  • Mueller brought criminal charges against 37 people and entities.
  • 6 of them were associates of President Trump: Campaign chairman Paul Manafort, deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates, national security adviser Michael Flynn, foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, Trump ex-attorney Michael Cohen and political svengali Roger Stone
  • 5 people have been sentenced to prison
Trump can say witch hunt 50 times a day it doesn't change facts.
Thank you for providing justification for special investigations for every Democratic POTUS in perpetuity.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
Mar 14, 2018
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Yep, good news for everyone that our president isn't actually a traitor. Some already figured that was the case, but I'm glad now we can be "strong together" as Hillary Clinton campaigned on, now that the truth is coming to light in the official investigation.

The gloating over the Democratic leaders and the media pundits is oh so sweet.

But on a more serious note, let's not forget that a lot of people have been lied to by the press they trusted. That's pretty serious. I don't blame people who are shocked or angry. No value in dangling it over their heads when they were deceived by a multi-billion dollar lie.

Come into the sunlight, you russiagate conspiracy basement dwellers.
It’s funny because the Democrats were screaming and gnashing on election night largely because their sycophantic press basically promised them they had nothing to worry about and Hillary would win. When that didn’t happen they lost their minds and did everything short of digging poop out of their own backsides and pelting it at each other.

Now again, the press strongly insinuated Trump was going to be removed and they’re essentially doing the same thing. It’s all been pretty pathetic and sad to be honest. There’s not even much rational thought there anymore, just a bunch of gibberish. They’ve lost their fucking minds.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Jun 1, 2009
7,199
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Let's not jump the gun one way or the other here. "Mueller has not recommended further indictments" does not mean the same as "Mueller has recommended there be no further indictments". It's not Mueller's job to make indictment recommendations based on the results of his investigation.

Mueller's brief, according to his appointment letter, was to make indictments that he believes were "necessary and appropriate" - which I read quite narrowly to mean necessary and appropriate to his investigation. It's not necessary to make an indictment if you already have the evidence from elsewhere - whichever way the evidence points.

So we really can't tell very much at all from this announcement. It doesn't exonerate anybody, and it doesn't pronounce anybody guilty either. All it means is the investigation is done.

I don't expect that we'll see the full report anytime soon either, as it is likely to contain a load of stuff that is pertinent to pending trials.
 
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Most sane people are sick of that shit. And you wonder why many of them are retaliating against Trump supporters now while Trump supporters now need safe spaces.
You mean where psycho liberals steal hats or throw water on people in a restaurant? You are just acting like a petulant baby and quite honestly, this kind of attitude is what will get Trump elected. Again. The Resistance is a joke.
 

Brizzady

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
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You're comparing a campaign talking point to an accusation that cost millions in a two year investigation. Unreal.
A campaign talking point that will cost billions of taxpayer dollars. UNREAL! It's hilarious that you're calling people delusional.
 

Dev1lXYZ

Member
Sep 1, 2017
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Trump has done none of that shit; He just only took credit for Obama's work.

Link 1.

Link 2.

Link 3.

Link 4.

Link 5.



Oh, really? Trump has had a history of racism; Before & during his presidency (Central Park 5 being a big example). Even his own ex-lawyer called him out on it not too long ago during his testimony at the House of Representatives.

Plus did you forget that he threw out Omarosa & called her a "dog?" Yeah, some "friend." He's nobody's friend, minority or not. All he cares about is himself & money.

Link 1.

Link 2.

Link 3.

Link 4.

Link 5.



No thanks. I'm not delusional like you.
I guess someone has to keep the 'dream' alive. It's sad that people like yourself are suckered into maintaining the status quo on the plantation. One of your own party members was outed wearing black face and for using the nickname of 'coon man' a month ago. Yes, let's talk about racism and how Trump is racist. So racism is excused when it happens within the Democrat Party? Just sayin'.

Using the same framing of time that you did, I ran a quick Google search and per Politifact the the verdict on the statement that minority unemployment is the lowest under Trump is true.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/08/donald-trump/how-accurate-donald-trumps-about-black-hispa/
 

#Phonepunk#

Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,915
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You mean where psycho liberals steal hats or throw water on people in a restaurant? You are just acting like a petulant baby and quite honestly, this kind of attitude is what will get Trump elected. Again. The Resistance is a joke.
yes the idea that showing up and screaming outside a congressperson's house is going to do anything other than make them hugely fucking irritated at the "radical left" and even more likely to VOTE AGAINST YOU is hilarious. maybe it's not the best idea before a big vote to go and piss off someone on the opposing side while making yours look like a giant jackass.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
Mar 14, 2018
1,297
1,524
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Oh, please. Your side comes off as incredibly annoying as hell at every turn, every single day.

People like you will always praise Trump at every turn while finding absolutely no faults within him whatsoever & will never hold him accountable for anything.

Most sane people are sick of that shit. And you wonder why many of them are retaliating against Trump supporters now while Trump supporters now need safe spaces.
Perhaps, but when the option is a group of people who are spending time screaming at the sky and trying to figure out how to ban cow farts and airplanes, I think we'll be just fine.

There's been zero introspection on the left since you've lost, just cheek-gouging shrieking. You have no policies that are mainstream. You don't need to worry about Trump, you're doing fine beating yourselves.