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My journey taught me how dangerous high weight/barbell exercises are

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
A beginner should focus on form, flexibility, and mobility before attempting power lifter type exercises even using tiny weights. Bodybuilding exercises are probably safer too as far as serious injury. You should also have someone knowledgeable look at your form.
 

The Lamp

Member
Squats and Deadlifts variations are among the most prescribed exercises by professional sports trainers. The people who train top athletes. These are bodies that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

If they were inherently bad for you, athletes would not be doing them. Again most doctors know jack about training and training modalities.

Classic authority bias.

That said I’m specifically talking about a doctor that dismisses barbell lifts wholesale for everyone, not one that made a proper diagnosis to an individual patient based on unique circumstances.

They definitely know about disease and what causes them, and what has hurt their patients, and my orthopedist is a fellow of the academy of sports medicine (or whatever it's called).

My two spine surgeons, my neurosurgeon, my two neurologists, my two physical therapists, and my orthopedic surgeons all said the same thing: loading your spine risks spinal disc damage, nerve damage, joint inflammation and damage, microscopic ligament tears and bone fractures, and a host of other issues. Yeah you can get "gains," but you can also get very bad things, and it's a matter of luck/mistakes, anatomy, skill, genetics, and other factors that can cause those bad things, so as preventers of disease, doctors will always recommend the least risky form of activity that maximizes health, not size or gain.

I will not listen to trainers over doctors. I injured myself with trainers. And then I had another trainer a few months ago offer to train me and he gave me advice that was contrary to my doctor even though, like I said, he himself had suffered two neck surgeries from damaged discs. So I will not risk my body for a certified trainer anymore.
 

entremet

Member
They definitely know about disease and what causes them, and what has hurt their patients, and my orthopedist is a fellow of the academy of sports medicine (or whatever it's called).

My two spine surgeons, my neurosurgeon, my two neurologists, my two physical therapists, and my orthopedic surgeons all said the same thing: loading your spine risks spinal disc damage, nerve damage, joint inflammation and damage, microscopic ligament tears and bone fractures, and a host of other issues. Yeah you can get "gains," but you can also get very bad things, and it's a matter of luck/mistakes, anatomy, skill, genetics, and other factors that can cause those bad things, so as preventers of disease, doctors will always recommend the least risky form of activity that maximizes health, not size or gain.

I will not listen to trainers over doctors. I injured myself with trainers. And then I had another trainer a few months ago offer to train me and he gave me advice that was contrary to my doctor even though, like I said, he himself had suffered two neck surgeries from damaged discs. So I will not risk my body for a certified trainer anymore.
I was specifically calling out that the prescription that the general population should not do barbell lifts, not your diagnosis.
 

Draft

Member
Obviously the problem was op had a classic muscle load imbalance. Gaining 20 lbs of lean mass while deadlifting just a couple 20kg dumbbells (???) is a recipe for disaster. Those newly huge muscles we're probably sheering off bone and tendons like a server at Fogo de Chao.
 
*are

I really regret most of the things I learned from personal trainers, gym fans, and what I've read from fitness communities on the internet including here. Because almost all of it was dangerous in ways most people don't know until they end up spending a year seeing ten specialist doctors like me.

The online fitness community (at least on this website) now advocates picking up steroids from illegal sources (or lying to your doctor for a prescription) and then using them "non-abusively".

It is abundantly clear that it is not about their health, but for aesthetics or some gamer mindset of getting bigger numbers for the rush getting bigger numbers gives.
 
The online fitness community (at least on this website) now advocates picking up steroids from illegal sources (or lying to your doctor for a prescription) and then using them "non-abusively".

It is abundantly clear that it is not about their health, but for aesthetics or some gamer mindset of getting bigger numbers for the rush getting bigger numbers gives.

What
 

entremet

Member
Nah people can do bench press, they just have to be very careful with their form so they don't damage their shoulders.
What’s wrong with squats and deadlifts? They’re much more functional than the bench press, which is a rather unimpressive lift from a performance carry over perspective.
 

The Lamp

Member
What’s wrong with squats and deadlifts? They’re much more functional than the bench press, which is a rather unimpressive lift from a performance carry over perspective.

They load what, 50, 100, 150+ extra pounds on your vertebrae? Over time, it can damage your discs. Or it may not. But if it does, it's a bitch to treat. Or it can give you meningeal cysts. Or other issues. Or you could have a physical accident. It's just risky. It's a very good compound exercise, but it's risky to throw weight onto your back even with a straight spine with no scoliosis or disc damage, especially as you age. You can gain the muscle to hold the vertebrae firm, but the weight still applies force to the soft tissues. It's high impact.
 

Faiz

Member
They load what, 50, 100, 150+ extra pounds on your vertebrae? Over time, it can damage your discs. Or it may not. But if it does, it's a bitch to treat. Or it can give you meningeal cysts. Or other issues. Or you could have a physical accident. It's just risky. It's a very good compound exercise, but it's risky to throw weight onto your back even with a straight spine with no scoliosis or disc damage, especially as you age. You can gain the muscle to hold the vertebrae firm, but the weight still applies force to the soft tissues. It's high impact.

That's not what impact means though...
 
They load what, 50, 100, 150+ extra pounds on your vertebrae? Over time, it can damage your discs. Or it may not. But if it does, it's a bitch to treat. Or it can give you meningeal cysts. Or other issues. Or you could have a physical accident. It's just risky. It's a very good compound exercise, but it's risky to throw weight onto your back even with a straight spine with no scoliosis or disc damage, especially as you age. You can gain the muscle to hold the vertebrae firm, but the weight still applies force to the soft tissues. It's high impact.

Why risk playing contact sports? Why risk playing any sport? Why sky dive? Why do marathons? Why do anything risky?

YOLO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c
 

Verelios

Member
Beginner workouts that start with barbells and deadlifts are always red flags for me. You need a lot of core strength and muscle around your back and legs to support those exercises.
Yep, I got started with purely foundational workouts, push ups, jogging, dumbbells and worked out fine.
 
^^^ what??? Steroids are absolutely not advocated for here.


Yes they are.


Specific posts:

Because they are often used in sports as medicine. The issue is one of perception. Nobody balks when a guy takes a cortizone shot in order to not miss the big game, in fact they are often praised as tough and heroic, yet all that is is a drug that helps someone perform. A "performance enhancing drug" if you will. Yet those are probably worse for you than a lot of stuff that is demonized and banned. They are used in sports all the time, tons of medical enhancements are accepted in sports. It's a lot greyer than people like you want to believe.

No kidding. Apparently tylenol arthritis medicine and vicodin pills, cortizone injections, stem cell therapy to help ligaments, is okay. But don't you dare take clenbuterol to help shred fat and increase cardiovascular performance, how dare you take Testerone enanthate to recover faster, go harder, stronger, faster.

The reality is, a lot of people are using steroids and PED's. Lance Armstrong lied through his teeth denying it until he was caught. Olympians, athletes etc. There is a reason you are seeing a ton of young prospects from Cuba and the Dominican straight dominate baseball until they enter the majors. I can see the negative point where people who cannot afford PED's are at a diasadvantage or the health issues, but more people destroy their liver or die from complications using Tylenol than those taking Testosrerone.

When I hit 40+, I am definitely going to do Test injections or TRT to keep my test high. So that I can counteract aging, keep my muscle mass, generally live better and longer. Don't conflate obsessive use to the point of death with recreational or performance based reasons. I have a friend who was in a car accident pissing in a bag and hospitalized for like 8 months. He used a cycle of test and deca to gain a ton of muscle mass, recover during physio, end up in better physical shape than before his accident.


synthol, and I think he did other stuff as well



I'm all for pro enhancement drugs. All the athletes are on something. Let them go crazy with it.

It's incredibly common. Go to any gym. Morally, I have no problem with them. I wish there were more education and better sourcing, not this underground lab nonsense of today. Arnold and Co. took pharma grade stuff. They weren't even illegal back then!

I don't take any because I rather increase test level naturally. Plus they're pricey. If you want to do them legally, get on TRT. But you need a good doctor and low test. Most regular doctors can be very against TRT.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
How many pro powerlifters have had no injuries?

How many professional athletes in any field have had no injuries? I'm going to guess zero, because you don't get to that level without overdoing it.
 

FUME5

Member
Before I read this thread I was *this close* to committing to regular exercise for my heath. Oh no. Now all I can do is just lie in bed and eat chocolate coated blueberries I guess. Damn you universe!

You commit right now motherfucker, don't listen to this guy.

The online fitness community (at least on this website) now advocates picking up steroids from illegal sources (or lying to your doctor for a prescription) and then using them "non-abusively".

It is abundantly clear that it is not about their health, but for aesthetics or some gamer mindset of getting bigger numbers for the rush getting bigger numbers gives.

Uh, what?

They load what, 50, 100, 150+ extra pounds on your vertebrae? Over time, it can damage your discs. Or it may not. But if it does, it's a bitch to treat. Or it can give you meningeal cysts. Or other issues. Or you could have a physical accident. It's just risky. It's a very good compound exercise, but it's risky to throw weight onto your back even with a straight spine with no scoliosis or disc damage, especially as you age. You can gain the muscle to hold the vertebrae firm, but the weight still applies force to the soft tissues. It's high impact.

The thing is, people have been doing these lifts for centuries, and it is only a very minor percentage that suffer significant injuries like yours. So creating a thread like this where you are ascribing much higher risk to these exercises and arguing with people who have more experience is...well, par for the course on Gaf I guess.
 

Caelus

Member
Try and see if kettlebells would suit your needs instead? You get a good cardio workout with resistance while dealing with lighter loads.
 
Pointing out that sports has a culture of PED abuse and that you can get TRT if you even qualify (which in itself requires an existing medical condition) is hardly the "GAF resoundingly endorses steroids" you make it out to be.

"It's incredibly common. Go to any gym."

I said the online fitness community (including this site). Not this site specifically.

If steroid use is "incredibly common" in gyms, maybe just maybe I'm not wrong that the fitness community largely endorses their casual use?
 

The Lamp

Member
You commit right now motherfucker, don't listen to this guy.



Uh, what?



The thing is, people have been doing these lifts for centuries, and it is only a very minor percentage that suffer significant injuries like yours. So creating a thread like this where you are ascribing much higher risk to these exercises and arguing with people who have more experience is...well, par for the course on Gaf I guess.

And people have been getting sports injuries for centuries and they're not a minor percentage and like I said, I've consulted my experts, so do what you're gonna do and I'll do what I need to do. I'm just saying that I think there's too much careless exercise diagnosis in fitness social circles especially on the internet and it can have consequences on beginners.
 

FUME5

Member
And people have been getting sports injuries for centuries and they're not a minor percentage and like I said, I've consulted my experts, so do what you're gonna do and I'll do what I need to do. I'm just saying that I think there's too much careless exercise diagnosis in fitness social circles especially on the internet and it can have consequences on beginners.

Well, that I can agree with.
 

entremet

Member
"It's incredibly common. Go to any gym."

I said the online fitness community (including this site). Not this site specifically.

If steroid use is "incredibly common" in gyms, maybe just maybe I'm not wrong that the fitness community largely endorses their casual use?
Lol. Saying they’re common is not endorsing them. Opiate abuse is rather common and I’m not endorsing it.

The reason I know they’re common is due to the tell tell signs of anabolic use, which aren’t hard to spot once you learn the physical characteristics of steroid use.
 
For sure I've seen trainers both at the gym and online give programs and advice that probably shouldn't go to beginners. People think you just need heart to go from doing nothing for years to being an athlete.

Lol. Saying they’re common is not endorsing them. Opiate abuse is rather common and I’m not endorsing it.
I will. People on opiates just stay home and don't bother anyone. No oxy addict ever did anything to bother me.
 

Vidal

Member
ALWAYS, technique/form before adding weight.

The number of people that get injured and blame anything else than their own preparation is huge.

If you can't execute a movement correctly with a broomstick, you should not do it with a barbel.
 
Lol. Saying they’re common is not endorsing them. Opiate abuse is rather common and I’m not endorsing it.

The reason I know they’re committed no due to the tell tell signs of anabolic use, which aren’t hard to spot once you learn the physical characteristics of steroid use.

Saying they are common is not endorsing them.

Them being common means they are endorsed by the community. People don't do things that make them unpopular in their community.
 
I got sciatica once by doing bend over rows. I was in extreme pain for at least 4 months, no insurance, crappy pain killers. I couldn't sit, walk or sleep.

One must be very careful while exercising. You need to watch your form, not over exercise and eat well (captain obvious advice :p).
 

MastAndo

Gold Member
I kind of agree with this, though I can't speak for everyone else. Personally, I've never been able to lift heavily on the regular for any extended period of time. At 37, it's basically no longer an option. I'm not a small guy, though not large-framed either, but I'm fully convinced that my joints and connective tissues are not strong enough for the weight that my muscles need to grow significantly. Every two weeks I'm hurting myself, and it's a new part every time.

I'm sticking to trying to eat right, doing body weight exercises and light weights, with maybe the occasional heavy lifting session here and there.
 

HariKari

Member
If steroid use is "incredibly common" in gyms, maybe just maybe I'm not wrong that the fitness community largely endorses their casual use?

If you go to gyms frequented by competitors, you can usually find a source for illegal steroids. Like any drug, they're not terribly hard to get. That's not the same as the much, much wider fitness community 'endorsing' them. It's viewed as a personal choice. I abstain from them and will harshly recommend against them to anyone asking, doubly so for anyone new to lifting/bodybuilding, but I can't actually control what people do.

There is no push in the community that says "brah you absolutely have to be geared the fuck up or you are doing it wrong!"
 
For sure I've seen trainers both at the gym and online give programs and advice that probably shouldn't go to beginners. People think you just need heart to go from doing nothing for years to being an athlete.


I will. People on opiates just stay home and don't bother anyone. No oxy addict ever did anything to bother me.

Wait wut
 
It's viewed as a personal choice. I abstain from them and will harshly recommend against them to anyone asking, doubly so for anyone new to lifting/bodybuilding, but I can't actually control what people do.

There is no push in the community that says "brah you absolutely have to be geared the fuck up or you are doing it wrong!"

There is, otherwise casual steroid use wouldn't be so incredibly common among gym goers.

It may ultimately be down to personal choice, but if a community actively or passively supports a behavior it will become common in that community.
 

HariKari

Member
There is, otherwise casual steroid use wouldn't be so incredibly common among gym goers.

Steroid use is not 'incredibly common' among gym goers. The vast majority of people are natty. You're honestly coming off as pretty fucking stupid right now. How does one 'passively' support steroid use, by the way? Am I supposed to open a case with the police of vice and virtue against anyone using a rack that appears to be jacked?
 
"It's incredibly common. Go to any gym."

I said the online fitness community (including this site). Not this site specifically.

If steroid use is "incredibly common" in gyms, maybe just maybe I'm not wrong that the fitness community largely endorses their casual use?

You said this community here on NeoGAF endorses and encourages steroid usage for fitness. Like, you literally said it in your post

The online fitness community (at least on this website) now advocates picking up steroids from illegal sources (or lying to your doctor for a prescription) and then using them "non-abusively".

And then you said again it in your reply while simultaneously saying you didn't say it? Find posts here endorsing people here to take steroids, or kindly admit you are full of it. And not just one or two, because there can be an oddball in every community. Find the pattern or apologize.

Seriously, that's infuriating and insulting. People in FitGAF just want to help, and I don't think Quest Bars count as steroids anywhere in the world.
 
Yeah dude. It feels good working out and lifting, having big muscles, but it goes away after a month or so if you don't keep it up..

I stopped lifting seriously after I hurt my back. Then I worked in grocery for awhile and must have aggravated that because I'd sometimes get this insane pain shooting through my low/mid back that basically crippled me. I don't know if I tore something or what, but i had to be off my feet and literally flat on my back for days to get it to stop happening.
I rarely get that now that I have a new job, but it seems to come on if I'm working lifting things over my head or out in front of me a lot.

I pretty much just do weightless push-ups and various squats now. I would advise against heavy weight training becaus of this, and stories like yours. Again, it's fun, feels good, but it is a time sink, a food sink, and seems like it's just a matter of time before taking some damage, especially as you get older.
 
No, he injured himself lifting 70 lbs total. 35lb in each hand. Something just doesn't add up here.

So how did OP gain 20 pounds of muscle in 3 months lifting so light?

I'm confused by multiple things here.

1) Deadlifts with dumbbells? I'm trying to imagine how you would maintain form/ balance and my brain hurts.

2) You'd have to do an insane amount of reps to gain 20 lbs of muscle at that weight.
 
I believe you but you just had bad luck. 100 lbs is nowhere near the squat or deadlift load that would make your discs slide unless you had very awful or rushed form, in which case even a 0 lbs weight can cause permanent pain. I know an man that got damaged because he tried to lift a box which he thought was heavy but was actually empty, the overextension gave him permanent back pain. As for the shoulder, that I can believe could be caused by the bench press, and it happens because the grip was too wide and elbows spread.


What’s wrong with squats and deadlifts? They’re much more functional than the bench press, which is a rather unimpressive lift from a performance carry over perspective.

Yeah. Deadlifts, squats and the overhead press actually rehabilitate the back, knees and shoulders respectively, when done with the correct grips and stances. And they are actually quite forgiving regarding form too as long as you keep in mind a couple golden rules. I don't think the bench rehabilitates anything, and it is probably the more dangerous of the main lifts.

One time I did a rep of those fucking ab rollers and had sharp back pain for a couple weeks, which I thought would be permanent, but yoga and deadlifts cured me and made my back much more resistant. I have fallen down frozen steps and hit my back hard and was perfectly fine the next day.
 

Cptkrush

Member
I'm confused by multiple things here.

1) Deadlifts with dumbbells? I'm trying to imagine how you would maintain form/ balance and my brain hurts.

2) You'd have to do an insane amount of reps to gain 20 lbs of muscle at that weight.

Dumbbell deadlifts sticks out to me as well, that shit sounds dangerous.

Also, has no one ever heard of squatting and deadlifting the bar to work on your stabilizers and core? Literally the two best exercises for your back and legs, and it seems like half of the posters are afraid of them.
 

Epic Drop

Member
I'm confused by multiple things here.

1) Deadlifts with dumbbells? I'm trying to imagine how you would maintain form/ balance and my brain hurts.

2) You'd have to do an insane amount of reps to gain 20 lbs of muscle at that weight.

I'm right there with ya. I've never seen anyone outside of my friends who do CrossFit do deadlifts with dumbbells... Seems like a terrible idea. OP did say he was eating 3500 calories a day, so I'm guessing that is where the weight came from.
 
I managed to get started with a weightlifting plan and don't plan to rethink it, though this kind of stuff makes me nervous. I'm more concerned with all the shit they recommend to eat for gains, especially all the milk and cheese. My mild ocd hasn't stopped bothering me about counting calories and constantly getting me worried about my workout schedule, but I've made it far enough to chill the fuck out and just loosely follow the super squats program based on the book of the same name.

What I mean by that is that I'm just going to gradually start eating more, do half the effort the program recommends, and mix yoga into the whole equation in hopes that time this shit will cure my constant stress. I want to try getting bigger this year though I also want to feel healthier.
Anyyyyway point taken OP. Makes me feel better about not going all out, though I'm now a devout squatter.
 

Usobuko

Banned
If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

Good thing I only aimed for bodily control than pure strength.

100lbs per hand would be too much for me.
 
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