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Opinion Drama Clickbait My "simple" solution to the Covid-19 problem, which I thought was obvious, but nobody dares to voice

llien

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Situation
Virus
life risk: up to 10-20% dead in the absence of medical assistant, not counting people dying in riots/marauders/protests
spreading: luckily, this shit cannot simply travel with wind for tens of kilometers and can be localized

The Solution
  1. We are at war. Government assumes corresponding extraordinary rights. (because we cannot function as we did before)
  2. Money and everything related to it is meaningless. You don't get paid for anything anymore. You don't pay for anything either. All transactions are frozen. Government takes care about distribution of resources
  3. Everyone, but the groups explicitly called out, is ordered stay home. Because, fuck you, you goddamn idiot, that's why.
  4. People who do not stay home, are regularly screened for infection, have the best protection against virus we have, and are:
    1. Medics (are treated as first class citizens, in case we run out of oxygen masks, medic gets it over non-medic, because fuck you, that's why)
    2. Army, that is helping with distributing food etc to the population
    3. Police, that is patrolling the streets
    4. Key sectors continue to run: electricity, water, food, internet, online/TV entertainment
    5. Some are boosted, whoever can produce: medical supplies, C19 tests and pumps in particular, medical equipment
    6. Drug research is not a high priority, but can be boosted as well
Note that most of it is essentially how China has handled it in the infected regions.

Approximate time it would take to address the virus problem: 8 to 12 weeks.
And then you just strike through those X weeks out of calendar, and continue to live as before.

Special note about "buh mah salari"
People's income should roughly reflect the consumption. As consumption goes down, so will production and so should the income. Basically people's income should go down proportionally to GDP decline. Simply freezing all payment allows to address the minimal needs of the population, without wasting effort on bureaucracy that would be needed to figure who needs to be paid what.
 

Alx

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There are a couple of issues in that system that are more easily handled in a (semi ?)dictatorship like China than a western country :
- do you let people go out for food ? China delivered the food at your doorstep, it's not something that can easily be done here.
- which jobs can be completely stopped, and which cannot ? France started letting any company that isn't food, health or communication related stop their activity. Then they realized that truckers need open restaurants on the road. And food companies need cardboard and plastic wrappers to send their products. And vehicles need to be repaired in garages. etc.
- masks and tests are obviously aimed at health personel first, but there's not enough already.

In the end the confinement strategy is basically trying to do all of that, but in a looser way than what China did. That's one of the downsides of being in a country with more freedom.
 
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llien

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I like the herding 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 dying idea better.
FTFY

Note how quickly has BoJo abandoned the idea. (it's also crazy that miscommunication of that kind happens on level that high in a major western country)

- do you let people go out for food ? China delivered the food at your doorstep, it's not something that can easily be done here.
Why is it easier to deliver food in China please?

which jobs can be completely stopped, and which cannot ? France started letting any company that isn't food, health or communication related stop their activity. Then they realized that truckers need open restaurants on the road. And food companies need cardboard and plastic wrappers to send their products. And vehicles need to be repaired in garages. etc.
All would stop by default. What you have described is a basic mismanagement.
And truck drivers do not need restaurants, they could take food with them.

Are we really at that point lol
Are we really at the point that solution to C19 is months away? For a while at this point.
Are we at the point we realize how dire times we are in? Obviously not.

You either take harsh measures and get out easily. Or you get yourself dragged into all kinds of crap, from many corpses all over the countries (and related diseases) and riots and broken economy and what not first and then realize you should have acted with harsh measures earlier.
 
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Elektro Demon

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I don't know where you are situatated, but I never heard about earthquake in Croatia.
I'm from the eastern part, Osijek. There have been a few earthquakes in the last decade in the Zagreb part, it's nothing too serious but they do happen.
But the timing is just shit. After the earthquake all the people went outside and that has to have an impact on covid spread. It's not really that bad in Osijek and I hope it stays that way.
But the situation is getting serious in the capital, Zagreb.
 
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M1chl

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Damn, you are pretty close to Serbia, hope there is no fights in there. Yes, that shit definitely is going to have an impact, besides 15 year old died in debris, so that's not good. I sayw these pictures and it's pretty bad, especially for the city, there is a lot of old building though:
Link
 
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Elektro Demon

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Damn, you are pretty close to Serbia, hope there is no fights in there. Yes, that shit definitely is going to have an impact, besides 15 year old died in debris, so that's not good. I sayw these pictures and it's pretty bad, especially for the city, there is a lot of old building though:
Link
No fights man, we closed the borders with them.
The girl didn't die. She's alive but she's in a very critical state. Hope she makes it.
 
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Alx

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Why is it easier to deliver food in China please?
Well for starters they can use the army to do whatever they want. Not something that is allowed in most western consitutions, you need to prove there's no other possibility first. Even to deliver food.
Also the Chinese population isn't given the choice to be locked in and fed like regular prisoners. Again it's not something a western government can do without jumping some major legal/institutional hurdles.
 
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llien

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Well for starters they can use the army to do whatever they want. Not something that is allowed in most western consitutions, you need to prove there's no other possibility first.
USA is using army as we speak (to isolate, to build hospitals, and hospitals itself)
Italy is using army to cremate the dead.

Germany:
Germany enlists army to help fight against coronavirus

Again it's not something a western government can do without jumping some major legal/institutional hurdles.
How does this work in Lombardy?



You know what the difference between them and the rest of the Western world is? They took a peek at the scale of deaths first hand and realized current, by western standard already very strict, measures are not cutting it.
 
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Alx

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USA is using army as we speak (to isolate, to build hospitals, and hospitals itself)
Italy is using army to cremate the dead.

Germany:
Germany enlists army to help fight against coronavirus


How does this work in Lombardy?



You know what the difference between them and the rest of the Western world is? They took a peek at the scale of deaths and they also realized current, by western standard already very strict, measures are not cutting it.
Well like I said you usually need to be in a critical situation to use the army for such things. France also asked the army to move some patients and use their hospitals and health staff. They're still not allowed to enforce confinement rules, constitutionally. It may come to it, but it's not as easily done as in countries like China.
Also considering the US, there seems to be some tensions already generated by the mere sights of troops roaming around (also were in Europe, even when those troops had nothing to do with confinement). You can't go from "business as usual" to "martial law" without taking the risk of triggering some unrest that could make things worse.
 
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llien

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They're still not allowed to enforce confinement rules, constitutionally.
Lombardy is apparently doing it.
Elected parliament can apparently grant rights to do it, where constitution is too restrictive.

There isn't a country on this planet where this is judicially not possible.

Note that I've suggested police would patrol. (although, possibly, they would need help)

...you usually need to be in a critical situation...
I think that's the main disconnect, I think we are. We can do it earlier and suffer less, later and suffer more, or just let things unleash as they go and get to mass deaths and economic crisis, in which case it won't be over even by the end or the year.
 
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GAMETA

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There's no solution to the crisis. Whatever you do you're already at a loss. It's time to think about your family and close ones and do the best you can in terms of survival. You taking care of those close to you means the collective is safer too. The pieces of society can be collected later, the only things you can't live without are water and food, everything else you got is just a bonus.

Life has changed, folks, the sooner you realize and accept it, the best are your chances of survival and of coming back on top after it's gone.
 
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TheStruggler

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Are we really at that point lol
Honestly I would say yes. If we dont take drastic measures expect this shit to be around and keep coming back for the next 6-9 months. Why not hunker down and have a huge 1 month break in the system to completely flush it out instead of slowly getting the hang of it go back to normal then have to isolate again, once it slowly dissipates go back to normal to then have it come back again. People all over the world need to start doing shit that helps and not like those fuckn idiots on the beaches in America going "if I get Corona, I get Corona" stop thinking of yourself and think of others for once.
 
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Hinzel

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FTFY

Why is it easier to deliver food in China please?
while a land mass comparison is similar, the population differences between the US and China are absolutely huge.

China population = 1,439,323,776
US population = 331,002,651

China size = 9,596,960 sq km
US size = 9,833,517 sq km

China = roughly 150 people per sq km
US = roughly 33 people per sq km

So not only is China physically smaller than the US, it has over 4 times as many residents. Delivering infrastructure to densely populated city centers is "easy" (relatively speaking). It's the super lowly populated areas where you have single families living on many acres of land where it becomes difficult, and often times, not worth the trouble.

This is the same reason that North America lags so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to things like average internet speeds
 

llien

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We can do that when we get flu-ebola (deadly as ebola, distributes like the flu). For corona that's insane.
What does Italy do? Get more dead and tighten the screws. (Lombardy already IS at "you must stay at home" point!)
At this pace, when will it stop?

I also wonder, why rubs people wrong way about it, isn't it great to address the issue in a very short period of time with minimal losses?


H Hinzel
I guess distributing food in Russia is basically an impossible task. People must be starving, curious how anyone is alive at this point.
 
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Yoshi

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What does Italy do? Get more dead and tighten the screws. (Lombardy already IS at "you must stay at home" point!)
At this pace, when will it stop?

I also wonder, why rubs people wrong way about it, isn't it great to address the issue in a very short period of time with minimal losses?
Your whole idea only works if you did it internationally in every country of the world. Which is the major issue of all the concepts other than herd immunity.
 

cryptoadam

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I stopped checking the news 2 hours ago and I already feel calmer.
While I agree this Corona shit is serious, but my god the media are instilling such fear into people. I'm not gonna be checking the news anymore,
I think its serious but I agree about the media.

One thing you will notice is that they will always put out stories about the 34 year old or 27 year old or 40 year old that got this and died. And make sure to say they were healthy, except for they had this or that.

You never see stories about the 85 year old that smoked for 70 years that died, or the 79 year old who had by pass heart surgery and died from this.

I am not denying young people die from this or will be in the ICU. Its a kick ass pneumonia (its not the flu that was CCP misinformation from day 1) which no one really wants to get. But every media story will focus on the younger aged people and not the 95%+ that are old and sick already.

5 children died from the flu last week but you won't find many media stories detailing how horrible these children's death were. But I have no doubt if the media made a big deal of each one of those deaths you would see the same type of freaking out that people get when they see a tweet or story about a 28 year old dying from Corona chan.


"So far this season we've had between 30 and 40 million illnesses in the United States," Martin says.
Of that number, about half were ill enough to seek medical care, and between 300,000 to 500,000 people required hospitalization.
The CDC estimates that there have been 20,000 to 40,000 deaths in the United States so far this year.



CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 38 million flu illnesses, 390,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths from flu.

Pneumonia


Emergency department visits
  • Number of visits to emergency departments with pneumonia as the primary diagnosis: 1.3 million

Mortality

  • Number of deaths: 49,157
  • Deaths per 100,000 population: 15.1
If the Meida published these numbers and ran stories about every 25 or 30 year old that had these then people would be in pandemic mode every day.

Now all this to say this is serious and I don't want COVID nor wish anyone else to get COVID. No one wants to get pneomnia even if you recover it still sucks assholes.
 
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Hinzel

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H Hinzel
I guess distributing food in Russia is basically an impossible task. People must be starving, curious how anyone is alive at this point.
Russia faces many of the same problems as the US when it comes to providing things like fast internet to rural areas. Please point out where I said it was impossible? I said it was much more difficult, which it is
 
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llien

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Your whole idea only works if you did it internationally in every country of the world. Which is the major issue of all the concepts other than herd immunity.
We have seen it being successfully pulled of in China.
Yes, that's a hard part, but closed borders are real already. You could do it within borders of any large enough territory.

Oh, and by the way, we are getting there day by day:

As for herd immunity, what healthcare system can take care of 3-4% of the population needing oxygen masks? (I loved that BS diagram by BoJo, where NHS was able to handle half of the theoretical peak)

Show me a single "herd immunity" scenario please, any napkin math would do, that lets us get there without:
1) Fast "herd immunity" => BoJo tried, but backed off style, several % of the population dies within weeks
2) Slow "herd immunity" => A bit less, but still several % of the population die, economy is destroyed

We are basically in #2 mode, hoping for a miracle to come (a medicine or vaccine, which are at best months away)


H Hinzel
Apologies for my sarcastic tone, I was very annoyed when writing it.
My point was, you have countries with large territories handling logistics just fine.
People living there do get food and other supplies.
With smaller number of people commuting, the need in supplies should go down, not up, existing channels should be enough.
 
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matt404au

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Honestly I would say yes. If we dont take drastic measures expect this shit to be around and keep coming back for the next 6-9 months. Why not hunker down and have a huge 1 month break in the system to completely flush it out instead of slowly getting the hang of it go back to normal then have to isolate again, once it slowly dissipates go back to normal to then have it come back again. People all over the world need to start doing shit that helps and not like those fuckn idiots on the beaches in America going "if I get Corona, I get Corona" stop thinking of yourself and think of others for once.
And what about the boomers
 

Weiji

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My solution is even faster, just kill anyone showing symptoms. Guaranteed to end the pandemic within 24 hours.

Let’s start with llien since he’s obvious got a brain fever.
 
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Hinzel

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H Hinzel
Apologies for my sarcastic tone, I was very annoyed when writing it.
My point was, you have countries with large territories handling logistics just fine.
People living there do get food and other supplies.
With smaller number of people commuting, the need in supplies should go down, not up, existing channels should be enough.
that's fine, no offense taken. those countries face the same issue but have dumped billions of dollars and many years into making it work. and it doesn't make the problem go away, it just provides a work around.

even with an unlimited budget, you cannot just snap your fingers and have these massive supply chains created out of thin air - it takes a lot of time to get everything setup and running
 
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quickwhips

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I live 10 miles from closes neighbor no one delivers here. Fuck off with you silly ideas. I went out today got some car parts, food for the family. Just stay away from people use clorox when touching shit snd wash your fucking hands.
 

Cybrwzrd

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Might as well do the Chinese thing. Eliminate everyone that has been exposed and report that everything is fine but those dirty furriners coming in are spreading it.
 

TheStruggler

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And what about the boomers
What about them? Im not saying stoping major essential needs etc. But maybe during a crisis like this its not bad to get military involved to help the general public. Again do you want the problem to go away fast or feel we have to shut down every month or two because it got out of hand again
 

matt404au

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What about them? Im not saying stoping major essential needs etc. But maybe during a crisis like this its not bad to get military involved to help the general public. Again do you want the problem to go away fast or feel we have to shut down every month or two because it got out of hand again
Seems to me that the choice is shut down for 6-9 months and boomers live or have a big Corona orgy for one month and boomers die
 
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