Vroadstar
Member
Embarrassing even, add the fact that we are talking about Sony, who also owns Sony Music Entertainment. But what do they know about copyrights, music publishing right? compared to some posters here
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Naughty Dog Accused of Not Crediting a Songwriter’s Cover in Latest TLOU2 Trailer
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Drama
Embarrassing even, add the fact that we are talking about Sony, who also owns Sony Music Entertainment. But what do they know about copyrights, music publishing right? compared to some posters here
tfur
Member
So, when do I have to give Hendrix credit when I go on you tube I cover "All along the Watchtower?"
If I play the guitar left handed?
If I do a solo?
If my voice sounds like his?
If I do a solo similar to his version?
The copyrights in question are for the original artists and subsequent SOUND RECORDINGS, not for covering the recordings.
So, yeah, your point.
Geki-D
Banned
That depends on what you consider "rewrote". She didn't rewrite the tune, she just played it at a different pace. She didn't add any new words, she just hummed and oohh'ed during a part of the song where only instruments play and that instrument only part is also in the original song.
It depends on if you consider humming along with a song actually lyrics or just a form of instrument playing. I mean, she also played the song on an acoustic guitar, which wasn't the case for the original. Should she then be credited for any cover of the song using an acoustic guitar too? If she didn't humm but instead tapped on her guitar, should she get credit for every cover of the song where the performer taps on thier guitar?
It's also worth pointing out that she very quickly deleted the Tweet and, as of right now, has yet to make any other reference to the song. I think this means one of 3 things:
1: She realised she really didn't have a leg to stand on in this and it was pretty dumb.
2: Sony has actually reached out to her already. Though I don't see any result of this. Both versions of the trailer are still up (here & here) and unmodified with nothing added in the description about the cover. I have no idea where that article is getting the idea the video was set to private, btw. That was never the case.
3: She herself didn't actually have permission from the original artists so it wasn't a great idea to attract attention to her cover.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Sorry, I did not look in the details.... My guts tell me she is just looking for attention.
Jon Neu
Banned
Hey man, I always wanted to ask you. Who’s the chinese that always appears on your avatar?
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
D.Final
Banned
Naughty Dog Accused of Not Crediting a Songwriter's Cover in Latest TLOU2 Trailer
Once again, Naughty Dog stands accused of not crediting/acknowledging an artist's work in the TV trailer for The Last of Us Part II.wccftech.com
Seattle-based singer and songwriter Anna-Lynne Williams claimed on Twitter that the song featured in the commercial is 'copied' from her own cover of the original song. She claims to have added her own lyrics, which would support her demand for credit and/or compensation.
Interestingly, the official YouTube upload of the commercial has been now set to private, which suggests Sony might be evaluating the musician's claims.
Yeah
I think that should clarify this
sainraja
Member
Dick Jones
Gold Member
It's really not that tricky. If you did a cover of Hendrix's version it would be because his version is unique and his interpretation appeals to you. Therefore you should credit him alongside the original composer. If you added your own, unique solo that you created and then someone else copied your contribution then they should credit you alongside Hendrix and Dylan.
Stealing other people's creative works without credit isn't cool or clever.
No money need change hands. ND isn't going to go broke, TLOU2 will still be released. It's just a matter simple ethics.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Why should ND care that she is credited or not. Discuss it with the songwriters and if they are happy to include then add her and if not that's their right not ND.
If I was ND I would have credited her to protect itself, but any cash royalties can be divided up between the artists themselves. Let them sort that mess out. There are about a dozen cover versions of the song prior to her cover. I'm not bothered but if someone really wants to get to the bottom of this they could listen to all the other earlier cover versions and see if what she is looking to get credit for is in an earlier version. If it's in the earlier version give the 2 finger salute and if not work it out quietly. It won't make a difference as people won't look at the writer part as they know it's a New Order song, the only real question someone would have is who sang that version?
If I was ND I would have credited her to protect itself, but any cash royalties can be divided up between the artists themselves. Let them sort that mess out. There are about a dozen cover versions of the song prior to her cover. I'm not bothered but if someone really wants to get to the bottom of this they could listen to all the other earlier cover versions and see if what she is looking to get credit for is in an earlier version. If it's in the earlier version give the 2 finger salute and if not work it out quietly. It won't make a difference as people won't look at the writer part as they know it's a New Order song, the only real question someone would have is who sang that version?
itsjustJEFF
Member
Once again, Naughty Dog really are the worst! Deluxe Digital Edition pre-order, cancelled. Playstation 5 pre-order, cancelled.
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tassletine
Member
Lol what (?) Yes, but they don’t get credited as writers do they? Even though they add significantly to that part of the process and that most people assume that the words coming out of the actors mouths are written by someone else.
Also, writers generally earn more than actors per movie. Not every film stars Robert Downey Jnr!
kuncol02
Banned
Because if their used her work, then they fucking have to?
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Go back and read the very next sentence that you cropped out or actively didn't read.
I meant care in whether they put 5 songwriters or 10, it's not Naughty Dog's IP to protect. That is something for the original songwriters to sort out. ND should have erred on the side of caution.
kuncol02
Banned
You don't understand. If they really used her cover then it's ND who used copyrighted material. It's ND who potentially could pay mulitimilion dolar fine. It's ND who in most extreme case would be forced to destroy EVERY EXISTING COPY of their work breaching copyright laws (that happened before). Original songwriter have nothing to sort out there because it's case between cover copyright holder and that's her and Naught Dog.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
When it comes to music and how hard is to produce, even I sometimes have eye tick that I am not credited somehow. It's stupid sure, but if you are less than talented/skilled person and some piece took you months of work, I can understand. Sadly thanks to social media, people now going to attack one or other party. When feels are involved, is always a shitshow. In this case Naughty Dog did nothing wrong.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
when you listenb to the original song and her cover they are completly different arrangements , es the odd lyric is changed but they copied here arangement to. if she has that copywrited then they need to credit ther its as simple as that. the trailer is back up so am sure they paid her something and sorted it
Dick Jones
Gold Member
They could have easily not known she existed as there are about 20 cover versions released. No one listens to every version before they try their version. A slow guitar version of a song to try and give it that extra gravitas isn't an original concept. Humming the sounds when you don't want to use synth music or words isn't radical or ground-breaking. They could have easily be concepts that were chosen independently. If they knew of her version during the process or didn't do their due diligence then if anything goes against ND it's deserved.
Does anyone have her 2011 album? (longshot i know) Did she credit herself as co-song writer or just vocals and instruments?
Geki-D
Banned
From what I can see the trailer never actually went down, at least it didn't on the official Playstation channel. If it did it was crazy fast.
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Rolla
Banned
So let me get this straight... Are people really arguing about a line of added lyrics? When It's not her song.
Even if you remix a song entirely credit and royalties are payable to the original copyright holder. Adding a adlib/remix/new tempo does not give you rights to the original copyright. Because that's not how copyright law works.
If I take a novel and insert a sentence that I like which is then used in marketing material, who are the royalties payable to?
Even if you remix a song entirely credit and royalties are payable to the original copyright holder. Adding a adlib/remix/new tempo does not give you rights to the original copyright. Because that's not how copyright law works.
If I take a novel and insert a sentence that I like which is then used in marketing material, who are the royalties payable to?
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FranXico
Member
Yeah it was a stupid mistake and it can be rectified. I mean, she is credited in the actual game, right? If it's a cover song, it's not too much to ask to add a "performed by" to the subtitle.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
What pissed me off about her case was that 1) it wasn't her song and 2) apparently, it was a lyric/humming.
It sucks to hear that you weren't credited for your work, did you ever pursue legal action?
phil_t98
#SonyToo
it was her music and her version of the song. why are you pissed off? i mean you insulted her from the get go but why are you so personally offended that she was claiming damages for use of her veriosn of the song
phil_t98
#SonyToo
also if bluepoint remake a PS3 on the PS4 its not their game as they have only remade it, shoud they not get credit for it?
l3lacklvlagic
Member
Because that's the same thing
BlitzerRadic
Member
The only protection a cover gets is the sound recording itself. In order for ND to have infringed, they would have had to use the audio the cover artist recorded which they didn't do.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
well yeah you could class her version as a remake rather than a cover. google it, its a thing within music as well
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
SONY is putting all their hopes into the Last of Us Part 2 and a little copy right credit song isn't a BIG concern.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
agree with that. the women deserves her credit though for them copying her version. the game will be awesome
l3lacklvlagic
Member
Humming during a portion of a song you don't own in your eyes, is the same as someone remaking a game from the ground up?
phil_t98
#SonyToo
What about the arrangement of the music? I mean it’s nothing like the original
GHG
Gold Member
When you do a cover of a song you do not own any rights for that cover, all rights really remain with the original creator of the song.
So in a lot of cases you can technically copy people's covers as much as you like without needing to credit or pay them, so long as you have obtained a license from the original song creator.
Is it legal? Yes. Is it moral? Probably not.
But it goes with the territory of being a cover artist. If you want to ensure you are protected and credited then make your own shit from scratch.
jonnyp
Member
That arrangement is just a slow version of the original song with an acoustic guitar. It's how a lot of people on an acoustic guitar play it, including me since 20 years. It's nothing special, and probably hundreds of people have done that before she ever did. She cannot copyright an arrangement - it's still New Order's song and copyright. She deserves fuck all. If she wants to credit and/or to make money from music then write original songs.
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Ceallach
Smells like fresh rosebuds
Bernard Sumner himself has played the song like this before. Electronic did a slowed down "cover"(hesitant to call it a cover because while it wasn't new order, it was still Bernard). This is their song.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
If it was an oversight, it wouldn't have taken a few days to correct something. I'd say the few days was used to transfer the cash. Naughty Dog continuing their trend of not properly crediting others. I think it was Assassin's Creed artwork used in Uncharted 4. Probably see uncredited Forza Horizon art in their next game.
Geki-D
Banned
No. It was a placeholder artwork from AC in a beta build that they forgot to update for a trailer. The final game and the updated trailer used original art. Ubisoft never said anything because they didn't care.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I getting at the lack of oversight to ensure this type of thing doesn't keep happening. You can say its a small thing and but why isn't it happening elsewhere as often? It appears that it's a Naughty Dog issue. People aren't doing their job properly.
Oddvintagechap
Member
I actually prefer the songs sung by ashley instead of the originals. So is there going to be a album?
Andodalf
Banned
What I think happened is that this was a one person error, not something malicious by ND as a whole. One person hears this cover and is influenced by it, copying/ imitating it when they work with the artist they had preform the trailer version. Neal and the rest of ND probably had no idea. The reason it took a while for this to be resolved is probably paperwork, if she’s going to be credited in this trailer, and also possibly in the final game, if indeed this song is in the final game in some capacity, she has to be credited, and paperwork would need to be done. In the world of Covid she can’t just fly out, which is why it probably took extra time. I’m glad ND owned up too it, and that She’s been credited, and I hope everybody learned about the importance of artists, and what they deserve to be credited for.
kuncol02
Banned
That's absolutely 100% fucking not true.
Derivative work - Wikipedia
Know your rights, because one day some can steal your work.
BlitzerRadic
Member
That's absolutely 100% fucking not true.
Everything new (arrangement , recording, etc) is separate work with separate copyright. If you record cover with same arrangement as original, then you have only copyright to your recording, but if you changed arrangement then you have copyright for that too.Derivative work - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Know your rights, because one day some can steal your work.
Cover songs are not deritive works though.
What about derivative works?
A derivative work is a new, original product based on one or more pre-existing, already copyrighted works. The only person who can create or allow a derivative work to be created is the person who ...
create.zendesk.com
Thirty7ven
Banned
She doesn't have a copyright claim, but it would be nice of naughty dog to aknowledge her considering it's clearly the same cover.
kuncol02
Banned
Except one problem. They are, or more precisely can by. If you only record same song with same music and same arrangement then you have only copyright of your recording. But when you change arrangement, or melody, or text or anything else you also have copyright for changed parts. Like Johnny Cash Hurt has completetly different arrangement than NIN. You of course still need to pay for copyright owner of original for usage of their part, but they can't simply take your version and sell as their.Cover songs are not deritive works though.
What about derivative works?
A derivative work is a new, original product based on one or more pre-existing, already copyrighted works. The only person who can create or allow a derivative work to be created is the person who ...
Thirty7ven
Banned
You need to first acquire the license. If it's a compulsory licence, then you basically have no rights at all.
I see that Naughty Dog has already gave her credit. I'm glad.
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