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Naughty Dog: PS4 has 5 GB RAM/6 CPU cores available to devs, talks using them

Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/11/naughty-dog-explains-ps4s-cpu-memory-and-more-in-detail-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

Posted yet? Lock if old.

ElTorro said:
Here is a video of the talk: http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03...ares-the-studios-secrets-in-a-hour-long-talk/
Click to expand...
First of all, Gregory explained that while 8 gigabytes of ram seem like a lot, only five are allocated to games, and they can be filled up quite easily:
Click to expand...
Even in the PlayStation 4 you have 5 gigs, which seems like a lot but you’ll be amazed by how quickly it fills up.
Click to expand...
Memory fragmentation is one of the worst enemies, because it causes a game to run out of memory a lot faster than it normally would. Naughty Dog solves that by custom-tailoring memory allocators to match the software’s allocation patterns.
The studio also uses explicit memory maps in their engine, that tells at any given time where the memory is being used and what kind of memory it is.
Click to expand...
There are 8 CPU cores, that are “higher quality more powerful processors than what you have on the main CPU of the PS3,” and they’re organized into two clusters.
Gregory also explains that the GPU is “more powerful than it’s necessary to render graphics at 1080p at 60 hz” and that the idea of the designers of the PS4 was to give extra GPU resources because it’s “incredibly good at doing massive amounts of parallel processing” and they envisioned that game designers are going to take advance of that processing to do physics, cloth simulation, and fluids and more on the GPU.
Click to expand...

More at the link.


NDPS4_1.jpg

With the PS3 Naughty Dog developed in conjunction with Sony’s ICE team a “Job system” to use the multi core CPU system, and a similar one has been created for the PS4.
Click to expand...
NDPS4_2-571x425.jpg

NDPS4_3-567x425.jpg

NDPS4_4-565x425.jpg

NDPS4_5-565x425.jpg

NDPS4_6-568x425.jpg

NDPS4_7-568x425.jpg

NDPS4_8-571x425.jpg
Click to expand...
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
If the PS4 still reserves 2 cores for the OS, then Matt's statement that you can get more out of the PS4's CPU than of the XBO's might imply that the CPU clocks higher than 1.6Ghz. Or the XBO suffers from virtualization overhead on every core, but that's AFAIK unlikely in multi-core systems.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM available to devs?

ouch. explains a few things.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Really clear description. Nice.

6 cores confirmed for the CPU. Based on previous benchmarks, there's a chance that the PS4 CPU is clocked higher than XBO's or the XBO CPU has some added overhead for the OS.

EDIT: ElTorro beat me to it.
 
C

CriterionDog

Member
PS4 games are limited to 5gbs of ram? Didn't know that. In the future will it be possible for they to use 6 or 7gbs of the ram in the system? Does the PS4 OS use 3gbs of ram?

I am excited for whatever NaughtyDog brings to the PS4. Really looking forward to Uncharted. Hopefully we see it at E3!
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
CriterionDog said:
PS4 games are limited to 5gbs of ram? Didn't know that. In the future will it be possible for they to use 6 or 7gbs of the ram in the system? Does the PS4 OS use 3gbs of ram?
Click to expand...

It will most likely go down in time , it's still early days .

EDIT the talk is really good explain a lot about how ND works .
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Less RAM than I had thought. I expected it was 6GB. Hopefully that opens up more.

I do like hearing ND talk about 1080p/60. Here's hoping they go back to 60fps like they did in the PS2 days.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Persona7 said:
3GB reserve is what everyone was speculating.
Click to expand...

There was a rather respectable rumor about that reserve already having been shrunk, but apparently that rumor wasn't correct. /edit: I forgot who the source of that rumor was.
 
A

ascii42

Member
ElTorro said:
If the PS4 still reserves 2 cores for the OS, then Matt's statement that you can get more out of the PS4's CPU than of the XBO's might imply that the CPU clocks higher than 1.6Ghz. Or the XBO suffers from virtualization overhead on every core, but that's AFAIK unlikely in multi-core systems.
Click to expand...

Not sure, all MS has to say regarding CPU overhead on Hyper-V is the following:

CPU Overhead

The CPU overhead associated with running a guest operating system in a Hyper-V virtual machine was found to range between 9 and 12%. For example, a guest operating system running on a Hyper-V virtual machine typically had available 88-91% of the CPU resources available to an equivalent operating system running on physical hardware.
Click to expand...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc768536(v=bts.10).aspx
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
GalacticaN7 said:
*nods head pretending to understand as to not look foolish in front of everyone else*
Click to expand...

There's some RAMBITS and a new Gigawhosits to consider as well though.

Oh, and ROPS, they seem to be important now.

As an aside, I also thought there were games being developed with 6GB in mind, but wasn't there something about the RAM allocation not being "set" and while the had 5GB at all times, they could access some more? Or did I make that up?
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
ghst said:
six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM available to devs?

ouch. explains a few things.
Click to expand...
Yeah I noticed how they indirectly confirmed that. But hey at least there's still 500 mb of virtual RAM they can use from the HDD!

Ricky_R said:
Look at the bright side. Imagine if the PS4 had the rumored 4GB's of RAM instead of 8?
Click to expand...
Then at least it wouldn't be using almost half of that for non-gaming stuff :S
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
ascii42 said:
Not sure, all MS has to say regarding CPU overhead on Hyper-V is the following:
Click to expand...

Yes, I am not sure if that only applies to a single core running both the hypervisor and the guest OS. I don't know if hypervisors need to occupy CPU time on all cores or if they can run on one core only and schedule the other cores to the different guest OSs without occupying a relevant amount of resources.
 
N

neptunes

Member
I wonder if multi-threading will get more use in game development as a whole..

The way Sony's 1st party devs have been able to split up jobs across SPU and now X86 cores is commendable.
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
RoboPlato said:
Less RAM than I had thought. I expected it was 6GB. Hopefully that opens up more.

I do like hearing ND talk about 1080p/60. Here's hoping they go back to 60fps like they did in the PS2 days.
Click to expand...

Looking at how they struggled with 30fps on the PS3 and got praised for it I doubt they are going to go back to 60fps and not win GOTY.
 
Andrefpvs

Andrefpvs

Member
Oh, I was at this talk, it was at my University. It was extremely fascinating to follow along since it relates so closely to my education, and I love Naughty Dog games.

I'm not sure if they cut this part, but at some time Jason mentions they use Scheme at Naughty Dog, and the auditorium pretty much exploded at that time because that's the language we used for Fundamentals of Programming, but everyone just assumed it was educational only -- not a lot of practical uses outside of the class room (especially when CLisp exists).

Good times!

Edit: Yeah, it was cut from the video :<
WnvBAG8.png
 
I

Iolo

Member
What's the difference between a fiber and a thread? Did they just make that term up or is it meaningful?
 
W

whitehawk

Banned
So how would Sony go about freeing up more ram for games?

At the moment you can multitask games and apps (like netflix). It's a nice feature, but I would give it up if it meant more memory for games.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Andrefpvs said:
I'm not sure if they cut this part, but at some time Jason mentions they use Scheme at Naughty Dog, and the auditorium pretty much exploded at that time because that's the language we used for Fundamentals of Programming, but everyone just assumed it was educational only -- not a lot of practical uses outside of the class room (especially when CLisp exists).
Click to expand...

The world would be a better place with more functional programming in it.
 
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