OldJadedGamer
Banned
McDragon said:
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Naughty Dog: "Were probably only using 30 or 40 per cent of the power of the PS3"
- Thread starter TTP
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HomerSimpson-Man
Member
i hate bees said:
Um...what?
Naughty Dog is considering one of the best if not the best parallel coders in the business. Valve's very own Gabe Newell who heavily dislikes such a multiprocessor approach said he thinks Naughty Dog is probably best dev team for this stuff. And look at Carmack who again like Valve doesn't really like multi-processor set-ups to begin with, he to was praising the fact they got a coder that was once from Naughty Dog on their team.
And shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods....seriously? What? They released Uncharted already, easily one of the best looking consoles games on the market.
What does a 70% performance increase mean anyway?deepbrown said:
They could just say: "Yeah we could add a couple of polygons to the environments and add some light sources" why does it have to be "there's still 70% of POWAH, hidden beyond our grasp in the PS3... but one day we take control of this immense power". 70% more power makes as much sense as some nutjob claiming he saw Jesus in Gran Turismo code, or wait there was one...
The funny thing is that even they said that talking about percentages is stupid. Someone should ask them in an interview why they changed their opinion. For the record I don't doubt Naughty Dogs excellence in coding, I do however doubt that there's 70% hidden power in the PS3.
The percentage itself is not accurate. It's a guesstimate to both help them in how much more they think they can achieve, and how much they believe they are getting out of the theoretical power. It's also something very easy for the videogaming audience to understand. Though talking of percentage may have little accuracy/relevance in development, it can easily suggest to outsiders the gains that might be made.[Nintex] said:
And ND isn't a godly being - it's a collection of individuals who have different opinions and a different understanding of what people want to hear.
They've said this a bunch of times now. But saying this I think what they really want to say is "wait until you see all the cool shit we added in Uncharted 2".
Still, I'd say they use the " extra" power to make the surroundings more interactive or something. More shootable objects instead of all the barrels, and maybe be able to shoot through the plants and whatnot. Playing through the first time now, and it's getting pretty damn linear. I'm probably asking for too much here and stuff we'll start seeing in the next-generation. But if there's anyone who can show this already, it's Naughty Dog. I'm pretty convinced on that.
I really hope we see improvements on the level of Resistance to Resistance 2 with the Uncharted sequel. That unveiling better blow me away!
Still, I'd say they use the " extra" power to make the surroundings more interactive or something. More shootable objects instead of all the barrels, and maybe be able to shoot through the plants and whatnot. Playing through the first time now, and it's getting pretty damn linear. I'm probably asking for too much here and stuff we'll start seeing in the next-generation. But if there's anyone who can show this already, it's Naughty Dog. I'm pretty convinced on that.
I really hope we see improvements on the level of Resistance to Resistance 2 with the Uncharted sequel. That unveiling better blow me away!
SolidSnakex
Member
i hate bees said:
They've created what's widely seen as one of the most technically impressive games this generation with Uncharted. They're also responsible for co-creating the Edge tools. They along with Insomniac probably know the PS3 better than any other developer. If anything, their word when it comes to the system is much more valuable than other developers.
Just because you praised it doesn't mean my response to your first comment is irrelevant. This isn't a cock waving contest. You made a statement, I made a counter-argument. You either agree or you don't. If you do agree you say "Yes I agree, and I also happened to praise the game in my post", if you don't you say "No i don't agree" and you ellaboarte on why. That's how one debates. Noones arguing.pswii60 said:
You're saying they should have "used" the power to get rid of the tearing, i'm saying they will "use" the power to get rid of the tearing in Uncharted 2. Their framerate will already be much higher at this point. So in that way they are catering to your request.
The attempts to spin these remarks into something negative is hilarious. I don't really know what, specifically, the 30 to 40 percent capability usage is referring to exactly, but really, it doesn't matter. Uncharted came out within the first year of the PS3. Look at what came out in the first year of PS2's lifespan and compare it to God of War 2. The jump in quality is monumental. What's to prevent the same from happening there? Bottom line is, there is significant room for improvement.
What is also a bit funny is some people saying that Naughty Dog needs to put up and shut up when they've been some of the most impressive console developers around. Then we have guys quoting Carmack. He's an awesome PC programmer, but what's the last great thing he's done on consoles? Doom 3 on Xbox? What's the last great technical achievement he has had with the playstation brand?
Would anyone care to assist me in posting a PS2 "beginning of life cycle" and "end of life cycle" screenshot comparison?
What is also a bit funny is some people saying that Naughty Dog needs to put up and shut up when they've been some of the most impressive console developers around. Then we have guys quoting Carmack. He's an awesome PC programmer, but what's the last great thing he's done on consoles? Doom 3 on Xbox? What's the last great technical achievement he has had with the playstation brand?
Would anyone care to assist me in posting a PS2 "beginning of life cycle" and "end of life cycle" screenshot comparison?
McDragon said:
Naughty Dog said:
:lolNaughty Dog said:
What's with all these long winded responses? Do you think I'm actually going to read all that nonsense?deepbrown said:
It does matter. In this thread. As it's the whole point of this thread. Check the thread title.kevm3 said:
Zedsdeadbaby
Banned
If they can get a % grasp on how much they're using, why can't they grab the other 60-70% ?
Isn't this the same ND who contradicted themselves with the percentage farcial talk too? Lovely game ND (best PS3 game in fact), but percentage talk is bullshit and admitting so beforehand is even worse.
Isn't this the same ND who contradicted themselves with the percentage farcial talk too? Lovely game ND (best PS3 game in fact), but percentage talk is bullshit and admitting so beforehand is even worse.
SolidSnakex
Member
pswii60 said:
Interestingly, the comments that were made in the original post were by Richard Lemarchand, who didn't join ND until 2004 when he left Crystal Dynamics.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Slavik81 said:
To use for or against for system wars fodder, and the one thing seems to be true in all in teh system warz!!, experienced acknowledged devs whether they be Gabe, Carmack, or ND apparently don't know what they're talking.
The truth of the matter is no, they all clearly know what they're talking about, it's just they have their own bias opinions and experiences that's all.
And here we go again.deepbrown said:
Agreed. I think the 'power' remarks they've made are retarded and completely 2001 DC vs PS2 era bullshit. HOWEVER, Uncharted is a fuck-awesome game, and still by far my favourite PS3 game to date (sorry MGS4). So, oodles of respect for the ND crew. Just not so much for whoever made this 'power' comment. I thought we were well past all that nonsense. We know all console's have their strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, or should I say, the eating.Kittonwy said:They haven't delivered? Their first game on the PS3 blended platforming with melee and shooting seamlessly in huge seamless streaming environments while technically is still the most impressive game on the console.
Of course I agree with that statement. I never disagreed with it, so I don't know why you keep going on about it. You don't know when to drop things.deepbrown said:
But the same can be said of ANY game. All games have deadlines. Sequels therefore generally improve on the engine and fix issues.
Exactly...how else should he get it across that they can get a lot more out of the machine to plebs who have no idea about console development? He says percentage to aid understanding, not to make a technical point.Madman said:
Because you said "why bother arguing with frickin deepbrown"...when you obv weren't going to argue at all. So why not just say "I agree?pswii60 said:
And of course it's the same with any game, that's why I'm so confident in the statement.
Fenderputty
Banned
kevm3 said:
Exactly. Ok, so tossing around some percentages doesn't really mean much. Ultimately though, anyone in here acting as if this developer doesn't have a leg to stand on, shouldn't really be taken very seriously. Drakes Fortune is an amazing game. ND's work should speak for them when someone's questioning their comments.
If you ask some in this thread, anything besides a percentage.deepbrown said:
It really doesn't matter and I can't believe that you guys have argued about this for this long. I mean really, who gives a shit that he used a percentage value for power used in some interview? You guys will argue about anything. :lol
Anything where a developer is being interviewed for a website is marketing to some extent. He's trying to market his games and ND to a public who aren't developers. He's trying to get across the point that they have a lot more to get out of the system in an easy to understand way. Sure, it was unfortunate for him to mention percentages...but his point is clear.Slavik81 said:
-WindYoshi-
Banned
Awesome. I love to see communication gone right. It's one of the reasons Nintendo's internal developments go so smoothly.
Note: Never mention percentage. I think Rich Diamant of Naughty Dog said it best:Madman said:
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/21/ri...rt-style-water-and-the-advantages-of-blu-ray/
Bearillusion
Banned
ND use that other 60% to turn on vsync and best ever looking console game just became perfect.
brandonh83
Banned
Then, Naughty Dog, you know what to do:
Make twice the 'charted.
Make twice the 'charted.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Slavik81 said:
Oh, don't misunderstand, I'm not directing specifically at you, but at the question you ask, the pure reason we get full threads on it is always really the same heated argument and they always come off as if the devs don't know what they're talking about.
Everyone can take their jabs at a company that developed one of, if not prettiest console game so far this gen. "haha, xx%, shut up". Yeah. Too bad Uncharted and their prior works put up more than enough for them. Then again, it's the same people making morons of themselves in here.
Funny thing is, so far it only looks like other internal Sony devs are going to be able to out do each other for best looking console game.
Funny thing is, so far it only looks like other internal Sony devs are going to be able to out do each other for best looking console game.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
-WindYoshi- said:
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
As spectacular as Uncharted looks, what do you think besides the V-Sync that could be improved, visually speaking? I would prefer a smoother framerate, and whatever water system Resistance 2 is using, I'd like to see that put in there. A dynamic water system is interesting, wherein different things can affect the flow of the water, the ripples, etc. I hope it makes into Uncharted 2. It's hard to think of any real improvements, since the game looks so good already.
Only one thing matters:
ND please unveil your new game as soon as possible!
I really hope it's set in India like a few rumors said although there's also the Atlantis rumor which is also an interesting setting although a bit overused.
About the graphics, you know that with Uncharted 2 ND will deliver a big jump over the original just like they did in the past going from Crash1 to Crash2 and Jak1 to Jak2.
ND please unveil your new game as soon as possible!
I really hope it's set in India like a few rumors said although there's also the Atlantis rumor which is also an interesting setting although a bit overused.
About the graphics, you know that with Uncharted 2 ND will deliver a big jump over the original just like they did in the past going from Crash1 to Crash2 and Jak1 to Jak2.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
kevm3 said:
Naughty Dog has been pretty forward with the addressing and sharing with technology to improve tools and support across Sony's studio, I can imagine like Marconelly suggested they would have that advanced independent object based level motion blur found out in Killzone 2 to give it all a very CGI movement look. Naughty Dog acknowledged the other Sony teams at the end credits, it was Guerilla that gave them an idea for their shadowing system (which is some of the smoothest I have seen on consoles still).
Other improvements in engine performance would be obvious things like increased enemy counts and the like. Aside from the ones you already listed too, yeah, I can't think of too much at the moment. Maybe they could get an engine the emulates a sub-surface scattering effectg for lighting and skin highlights.
It was after Jak 3 development. They started working on the PS3 tech. So they knew what they were doing and Naughty Dog knows more (and doing it better) about multi-proc. than ID/Carmack (he/Carmack even said it)KongRudi said:
[QUOTE='[Nintex]"We're only using 30% of it's power", if that's true than Sony needs to get some better coders to work on better engines and fast. [/QUOTE]
+
So look at the first PSOne games and 3 or 4 years later... they had ~ nearly 80% "more power" in their gamesDraft said:
Look at the PS2. Watch a game like Orphen... 3 or 4 years later we had Jak 2 and PRIMAL. Nearly 60% more power (bump) (I love my "%")
So, the PSOne and the PS2 were SO DAMN difficult to program for, right!? RIGHT?
The PSONE was a beast... too hard to program for! RIGHT? All the developers sucked ass, because the could not use ALL the power of the PSONE and PS2.
So, with your logic..... every damn developer on the planet sucked (and still suck) RIGHT??
Um... yes??zoukka said:
Getting rid of the floating was on their list of things to fix, but they ran out of time (and they didn't want to spoil the responsiveness) and unless they add a whole load of amazing tech (which I do hope) there's a 99% chance of a locked framerate.TTP said:
I'd like to add; Better Splash and Explosion effects, and interactive glass that breaks (as good as Resistance's
)ps. Doubledex speaks the truth. We should learn from past experience...some seem to be conveniently forgetting the PS1 and PS2.