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[Wulfric]

https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-attitudes-toward-transgender-people

A majority of people in countries surveyed (52%) believe that transgender people are a natural occurrence. This belief is most commonly held in Spain (64%) and Germany (60%). People in Hungary (44%), Italy (45%), and Japan (48%) are the least likely to believe that transgender people are a natural occurrence. Although people in Italy and Hungary agree at similar rates that transgender people are a natural occurrence, just 11% of people in Italy believe transgender people have a form of mental illness, compared to 43% in Hungary. People in Italy (11%), Spain (9%), Argentina (13%), and France (13%) are least likely to believe that transgender people have a form of mental illness. This compares to two in five people in Serbia (44%), Hungary (43%), and Poland (41%). Among western countries, the United States is most likely to believe that transgender people have a mental illness (32%) and the most likely out of all countries surveyed to believe that transgendered people are committing a sin (32%). Americans are the most likely to say that society has gone too far in allowing people to dress and live as one sex even though they were born another (36%), while people in Japan are least likely to agree with this sentiment (9%).

Horrific, really.

Source: Presentation and whitepaper: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...ipsos_report-transgender_global_data-2018.pdf

 

[pickleslips]

1/3 of Americans are absolute monsters.

 

[xStoyax]

As of 2016 The World Health Organization also considers transgender-ism a mental illness....

If I think I am a Cat, then I would be considered to be mentally ill.



If I think i'm a child, then I would be considered to be mentally ill.



If I think I need to have surgery to remove parts of my body because i thought I was born to be disfigured, i'd be considered to be mentally ill.


Transgenders have a suicide rate that far exceeds that of any other group. Also a sign of mental illness.

 

[Wulfric]

As of 2016 The World Health Organization also considers transgender-ism a mental illness....

Transgenders have a suicide rate that far exceeds that of any other group. Also a sign of mental illness.

Um, what point are you trying to make exactly?

 

[LaughingStock]

I believe it to be a mental illness.

I say this without ill intent. Without malice. I believe these people have a serious mental disorder but instead of being properly treated they are sold this illusion that they can switch genders.
No amount of hormones and surgeries will make a man become a woman and vice versa. The majority of people undergoing gender transition will never look like the opposite sex. And some of the changes are irreversible.
Honestly i think gender transitioning is like giving a loaded gun to someone with depression and saying "Do it. it'll solve your problem".

I'm not campaigning against transgenders. I don't think transgender people should be harassed in any way. They deserve to be treated with respect and dignity like everyone else. That's just my opinion.
But i certainly don't like seeing children being dragged into this transgender epidemic.

 

[Seraphym]

Surprised in a good way at the UK and "our" opinions.
However reading through the methodology, only 1000+ people were surveyed for the majority of countries and as low as 500 in some.
It's an interesting discussion point but I think the survey size doesn't help.

 

[Corrik]

Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness imo.

 

[Rocket Number 22]

Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, being transgender or wanting to transition is not.

Before transitioning i spent over a hundred hours with a mental health professional, we worked out my issues and went forward from there.

Parents who begin transitioning their children need to be stopped though.

 

[Big4reel]

I mean I have nothing against transgenders but how is Gender Dysphoria not an mental illness

 

[Dice]

Some of these questions are ridiculous.

"They are brave" - What is with the universal? Everyone has brave moments and everyone has not-brave moments. Some have them more than others. This would still be true of transgender people.

"They are a natural occurrence" - What is this supposed to mean? In one sense, everything is a natural occurrence. I don't think it means that. So does it mean like, the way hair color is a natural occurrence? That seems likely, but then wouldn't that merely be a reference to their feelings? I mean, if a person has to put in effort to appear and live a certain way, which the premise being asked about, that is obviously forged out by that person and thus not naturally occurring, right? Yet the question isn't even asking about how they live in response to the feelings, but it is asking about them as a whole person. This is really silly phrasing. A person is not just an occurrence. A person is not "the transgender happening" but the happening of their transgender-ness is a result of only one aspect of them manifesting in a particular way, and I know various persons who interpret and manifest their experience of these senses in very different ways.

"They have a form of mental illness" - The most debate on the topic is made around this, but I feel it is also guiding the points of discussion toward a conflict. Many believe it is a result of psychosexual development rather than say, a genetic variance that changes how the brain develops. Psychosexual development is incredibly complex and can go in many directions, and people don't really have a strong command of how they feel and what they like or don't like. If something is an uncommon variance, whether nature or nurture, ought that make it classify as an illness? Are sexual fetishes illnesses? Is identifying as polyamorous a mental illness? The word "illness" brings with it an instigation toward conflict and insinuation of necessity to cure, yet that isn't necessarily present with many psychosexual variances. I think on this topic a lot of anxiety arises from even bringing it up because of fears that some will try to force "cures" on them rather than respecting their desires for themselves.

"They have a form of physical disability" - Is this following the presumption of a genetic cause combined with underlying values of mating as a baseline standard for humanity? Or is it rather saying that their body which is out of sync with the gender they identify as is the "disabled part" so to speak? It's too unclear.

 

[ExpandKong]

Um, what point are you trying to make exactly?

It’s pretty clear what point he’s trying to make. Are you honestly asking, or are you just trying to ban-bait?

Shoot, was that a dumb question too?

 

[Wulfric]

It’s pretty clear what point he’s trying to make. Are you honestly asking, or are you just trying to ban-bait?

Shoot, was that a dumb question too?

No, I'm honestly befuddled. None of those videos have anything to do with being transgender.

 

[bitbydeath]

Eh, people should be able to do what they want with their bodies as it is their bodies.

I’m of the opinion that it is none of my business.

 

[Spheyr]

It is a mental illness, which makes 2/3 of the Ameicans polled wrong

 

[Big4reel]

No, I'm honestly befuddled. None of those videos have anything to do with being transgender.

The videos were about people trying to be things that they clearly were not and a woman that wanted to destroy her body. I think he was trying to make a comparison to transgenders who think they are of the opposite sex and want to go under the knife to change.

 

[SatansReverence]

I have no problems with people who have gender dysphoria and support what ever treatment they choose.

The problem I do have is the other 91284612308674 "genders" that apparently need special treatment for every single one of them.

example, this rubbish

Some of the Australian recognised "genders".

Gender Non-Conforming: A person who does not identify with either the male of female genders.

None Gender: A person who does not identify with any gender in particular.

Non-Binary: A person who does not identify entirely with either the female or male genders. They may identify somewhere on a spectrum.

Neutrois: Neutrois is a non-binary gender identity which is considered to be a neutral or null gender.

Genderfluid: A person who does not identify entirely with either the female or male genders. Genderqueer: An overarching term used to describe people who do not identify exclusively as either male or female.

Demigender: This term, (demi means half) is an umbrella term for nonbinary gender identities that have a partial connection to a certain gender.

Demigirl: A person (can also be called a demiwoman or a demifemale) who identifies partially with being a woman or has feminine characteristics. They may have been assigned female as birth, but they could also have been born as a male.

Demiboy: A person (can also be called a demiman or demimale) who identifies partially with being a man or masculine characteristics. They may have been assigned male at birth, but they could also have been born as a female.

Agender: This literally means ‘without gender’, so a person who doesn’t identify with any gender.

Intergender: Intergender people have a gender identity that is in the middle between the binary genders of female and male, and may be a mix of both.

Intersex: A person who is born with the reproductive anatomy of both a man and a woman. For example, they might appear to be female on the outside, but have mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. These people were previously referred to as hermaphrodites, but that term is considered rude and outdated.

Pangender: A person who identifies as more than one gender.

Poligender: Translates to ‘many genders’. A person who identifies as more than one gender.

Omnigender: Translates to ‘all genders’. A person who identifies as more than one gender.

Bigender: Translates to ‘two genders’. A person who identifies as both male and female genders. Some bigender people have two distinct male and female personas.

Androgyne: A person who doesn’t identify with either gender. They are both feminine and masculine.

Androgyny: The combination of masculine and feminine characteristics. Androgyny can apply to many things - someone’s gender identity, sexual identity, and even fashion.

Third Gender: People who identify as neither a man nor a woman. Some cultures refer to some of their people by a third gender. For example, in Samoafa’afafines are male at birth, but if a family had more boys than girls and needed more women to help with housework, they male children would be raised as a fa’afafine.

Trigender: Translates to three genders. A person who shifts between the male, female and third genders.

See also the tumblr genders.

This stuff is ridiculous.

It's all dreamt up by the normiest of normies to try and make themselves feel special because all through childhood they were treated like a special snowflake and found out when they grew up they were about as uninteresting as a bowl of cabbage. So they took "gender studies" courses and hid inside their safe spaces until their crazy ideologies were so ingrained that if anyone even for a moment tried to challenge them they would explode in "literally shaking right nows".

This is why people say they identify as an Attack Helicopter. It's a joke pointed squarely at this garbage. Not those who have gender dysphoria/transexuals.

Spoiler

inb4 I get called transphobic even though it's already been refuted.

 

[Rudelord]

I don't really care what a consenting adult does or doesn't do to their own body so long as it isn't hurting anyone else. I do take issue with adults trying to do the same thing to their children when the children don't have the capacity to decide something that life changing that early on.

 

[llien]

Denmark is the first and only country so far, that has declassified transgender as mental disorder.

Transgenders have a suicide rate that far exceeds that of any other group. Also a sign of mental illness.

Wasn't it the same with gay people, at least, not so long ago?

 

[Dunki]

It is not a mental issue. It is a defect in the Brain which in the end can lead to a mental illness since the body and mind can not comprehend this defect on its own. At least this is my understanding of it. But no it is not a general mental illness.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I’m not sure the hard science is there yet to properly analyse transgenderism. It would be wrong imo to say it’s one thing or another without good knowledge. Only thing that matters right now is that these people exist and deserve to have respect. Calling it a sin is religious drivel.

One thing I do think is that the general ‘pussyfying’ of the world isn’t helping the situation of human development. The traditional and natural roles of masculine men and feminine women are being turned on their heads with poor social engineering choices. When men aren’t doing roles which are in their nature to do it can’t be good long term. We already see huge drops in testosterone levels in western men for various reasons. None of this can help when it comes to the feeling of ones ‘sexuality’.

 

[womfalcs3]

It is not a mental issue. It is a defect in the Brain which in the end can lead to a mental illness since the body and mind can not comprehend this defect on its own. At least this is my understanding of it. But no it is not a general mental illness.

Okay. Not a mental illness, but a defect in the brain. (some can argue both statements are equivalent... illness vs. a defect)

 

[KevinKeene]

It is not a mental issue. It is a defect in the Brain which in the end can lead to a mental illness since the body and mind can not comprehend this defect on its own. At least this is my understanding of it. But no it is not a general mental illness.

Whether it's a mental illness or a physical defect - it's important to make it clear that being transgender is not healthy, is not a desired status that's (biologically/evolutionarily) equal to healthy, regular people (they absolutely are equal in terms of the law, though). A short glance at suicide rates tells the reason for that.

Now, what has me think that transgender people are at least partly inflicted with mental illness is the simple fact that up to now, I've never heard a convincing argument for why they need to identify as the opposite sex. Let me elaborate: You're a woman. But you prefer typical men-hobbies such as cars, sports, etc.. You prefer wearing trousers instead of skirts. Also you're sexually attracted to other women. Why do you need to identify as transgender, though? You're lesbian tomboy. That's ok. The same goes for men, although you'll have to accept that most people will find a man wearing a skirt weird. But being weird isn't illegal.
At no point is there a necessity for labeling yourself transgender and trying to mutilate your body. Yet, transgender people are deadset to follow through with that. That's why I think there's mental illness at play.

Now, if someone can explain why the above train of thought is wring, I'll listen. But I've read past transgender threads on NeoGAF, and they never managee to explain that part.

 

[llien]

Whether it's a mental illness or a physical defect - it's important to make it clear that being transgender is not healthy, is not a desired status that's (biologically/evolutionarily) equal to healthy, regular people (they absolutely are equal in terms of the law, though). A short glance at suicide rates tells the reason for that.

butwhy.gif?

It isn't a choice.

You're a woman. But you prefer typical men-hobbies such as cars, sports, etc.. You prefer wearing trousers instead of skirts. Also you're sexually attracted to other women. Why do you need to identify as transgender, though?

And if you are born man, but feel like woman, want to dress like women, your issues can simply be solved by mixing with gays?
Well, but aren't gays not really sexually interested in women?

 

[Alx]

Let me elaborate: You're a woman. But you prefer typical men-hobbies such as cars, sports, etc.. You prefer wearing trousers instead of skirts. Also you're sexually attracted to other women. Why do you need to identify as transgender, though? You're lesbian tomboy. That's ok. The same goes for men, although you'll have to accept that most people will find a man wearing a skirt weird. But being weird isn't illegal.

That's my general reaction to the phenomenon too. But then maybe there's something one can't exactly understand if you're not transgender yourself. I don't know.
Generally speaking I think it would be easier for everybody if people could be comfortable with who they are, whatever that means. If they feel like a woman in a man's body (or vice versa), ok why not, but why be miserable about it ? Just try to make the best out of the cards you've been dealt.

 

[Airola]

Mental illness?
Yeah, I think.
If it wasn't, people wouldn't feel a need to change their physical sex into the opposite and be depressed and suicidal because of it.
Depression is a mental illness too.
It certainly isn't a mentally healthy thing to have, I would say most transgender people would admit that. It causes depression (even after transitioning) and if you transition you still have to take pills for the rest of your life to stay that way. How is that not a form of some sort of an illness?
It's not a derogatory thing to say something is a mental illness. A mental illness does not make anyone a lesser person.

Sin?
No.
Even if someone would claim changing the body to the opposite sex would be a sin because of some whatever reasons, being a transgender in itself can not be said to be a sin. If they say it in itself is a sin, they should also admit their own being in itself is a sin. I mean, I'm sure those people who claim it is a sin have also their mind and brain wired up in so many ways that makes them quite naturally to go for different sinful actions.

 

[llien]

We have transgender people on GAF2, but I'm not sure they'd want to express themselves in this thread, given the non-sensible stance taken by most users.

 

[KevinKeene]

butwhy.gif?

It isn't a choice.

For the mentioned reason. We also don't go around telling people that handicapped people or people with Trisomy 21 are healthy. It's about being factual, precise - only that way can mankind progress. Not via 'let's not talk sbout it because feelings'.

@ilien: The real world is far less sensible than this thread. Maybe it's this 'treating with gloves' approach that causes many transgender people to commit suicide once they experience the real.world and not their online safe space.

This thread hasn't been mean in any way - although I have a hunch some will use it to call out everybody as alt-right nevertheless ...

 

[Airola]

We have transgender people on GAF2, but I'm not sure they'd want to express themselves in this thread, given the non-sensible stance taken by most users.

Why not?

Would a thread about some other thing that can be said is a mental illness and where people say it is a mental illness be unsafe place to the people with the mental illness to come and talk about themselves?

 

[Alx]

We have transgender people on GAF2, but I'm not sure they'd want to express themselves in this thread, given the non-sensible stance taken by most users.

They can see it as an opportunity to enlighten people who don't seem to "get it". I would personally welcome the discussion. As a matter of fact there was a transgender poster in a former thread who was active on the topic, but he got banned before answering my questions.

 

[TheGraykid]

Whether it's a mental illness or a physical defect - it's important to make it clear that being transgender is not healthy, is not a desired status that's (biologically/evolutionarily) equal to healthy, regular people (they absolutely are equal in terms of the law, though). A short glance at suicide rates tells the reason for that.

Now, what has me think that transgender people are at least partly inflicted with mental illness is the simple fact that up to now, I've never heard a convincing argument for why they need to identify as the opposite sex. Let me elaborate: You're a woman. But you prefer typical men-hobbies such as cars, sports, etc.. You prefer wearing trousers instead of skirts. Also you're sexually attracted to other women. Why do you need to identify as transgender, though? You're lesbian tomboy. That's ok. The same goes for men, although you'll have to accept that most people will find a man wearing a skirt weird. But being weird isn't illegal.
At no point is there a necessity for labeling yourself transgender and trying to mutilate your body. Yet, transgender people are deadset to follow through with that. That's why I think there's mental illness at play.

Now, if someone can explain why the above train of thought is wring, I'll listen. But I've read past transgender threads on NeoGAF, and they never managee to explain that part.

All of that makes it appear that you don't currently understand transgender people. It's about Gender identity, which is a thing we all have, if you're confused I would look into that for more clarity. There's also the really famous David Reimer case which I would recommend looking into. On a super basic level, the idea is that in our brains there is a part of ourselves that identifies as a man or a woman or anything else, this is completely disconnected from our body. If I brain-swapped you with a woman, then that wouldn't change the fact that in your mind you'd still identify as a man. Also, your identity as a man goes deeper than liking male hobbies or male clothing or being attracted to women (we know this because there are many men who identify as men and don't have those traits). Therefore a "just be a lesbian tomboy" response isn't adequate if you're a biological female with a male gender identity.

 

[llien]

For the mentioned reason. We also don't go around telling people that handicapped people or people with Trisomy 21 are healthy. It's sbout being factual, precise - only that way can mankind progress. Not via 'let's not tslk sbout it because feelings'.

I understand where you are coming from, but you basically stomped out a set of anti-transgender statements, some of which could be dubbed non-sensible, but some, like mixing them with homosexuals is, no offence, silly.

Transgender people feel/identify/"think that they are" of a different gender.
Homosexual people are attracted to people of the same gender, but do not feel they are of an opposite gender.

A homosexual man would seek male partner who loves men.
A transgender man would seek male partner who loves women.

You can't "solve" issues of transgender people by showing them into the "same gender sex".
It affects about 0.3% of men and 0.1% of women a tiny portion of human race, but still a huge number of people.

Why not?

Because it takes quite a thick skin to share how you feel with people who start the dialogue with "you are broken", "it is not healthy".

 

[Moderator 10]

FRIENDLY REMAINDER:

Moderation is not censorship. "Report function" is not to be abused every time we hear something we don't like or agree with. The point of a Forum is to debate matters with solid arguments and try to get as objectivly close to the "truth" as possible.

 

[Alx]

If I brain-swapped you with a woman, then that wouldn't change the fact that in your mind you'd still identify as a man. Also, your identity as a man goes deeper than liking male hobbies or male clothing or being attracted to women (we know this because there are many men who identify as men and don't have those traits). Therefore a "just be a lesbian tomboy" response isn't adequate if you're a biological female with a male gender identity.

That's purely theoretical obviously, but if I was brain-swapped with a woman, I don't see how it would affect my life. Except sexually of course, but transgender people are quite clear that it's not about sexuality, but identity.
That's what makes me wonder : why do transgender people see it as an issue ? I can only see two practical problems : social perception, and sexuality. But it's not something you solve by changing yourself, it's something you solve by changing others.

 

[KevinKeene]

All of that makes it appear that you don't currently understand transgender people. It's about Gender identity, which is a thing we all have, if you're confused I would look into that for more clarity. There's also the really famous David Reimer case which I would recommend looking into. On a super basic level, the idea is that in our brains there is a part of ourselves that identifies as a man or a woman or anything else, this is completely disconnected from our body. If I brain-swapped you with a woman, then that wouldn't change the fact that in your mind you'd still identify as a man. Also, your identity as a man goes deeper than liking male hobbies or male clothing or being attracted to women (we know this because there are many men who identify as men and don't have those traits). Therefore a "just be a lesbian tomboy" response isn't adequate if you're a biological female with a male gender identity.

You are right, I don't understand it. Which is why I'm wording myself clearly albeit non-sensible so that those with deeper understanding can help me learn.

However, your example about mind-swapping still doesn't explain why transgender people need to identify as the opposite sex. If my mind was in a female body, what part of my mind would tell me 'this is the wrong body'? Is it all about genitals? Because there's no other factor that limits men from doing what women do and vice versa, legally speaking.

Also, I have a big problem with the bolded part. "Anything else" doesn't sound like a real thing, but indeed a mental illness. When someone identifies as a cat girl (as in the video above), is that healthy and should be encouraged by society?

 

[Airola]

Because it takes quite a thick skin to share how you feel with people who start the dialogue with "you are broken", "it is not healthy".

It takes a thick skin to share a lot of things. That shouldn't be a reason to not talk about different subjects.

This topic is about "nearly 1 in 3 Americans believing being transgender is a mental illness or a sin" so to reply to this thread one basically should in one way or form say it either isn't or it is, or that it's a mixed issue but still say something about how it either is or isn't an illness of some sort. Essentially you want people to, what, say it isn't rather than it is so that transgender people would feel safe to say anything in this thread? Should this thread be just about posts where people can say the poll result is alarming and those people are wrong? We shouldn't be able to talk about its connections to what people often would consider as being an illness of some sort because transgender people don't have thick enough skin? Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of transgender people who have super thick skin and wouldn't mind about talking about the subject so I'm not sure what good does you or anyone else telling in their behalf how they must feel do.

 

[TheGraykid]

That's purely theoretical obviously, but if I was brain-swapped with a woman, I don't see how it would affect my life. Except sexually of course, but transgender people are quite clear that it's not about sexuality, but identity.
That's what makes me wonder : why do transgender people see it as an issue ? I can only see two practical things : social perception, and sexuality. But it's not something you solve by changing yourself, it's something you solve by changing others.

You are right, I don't understand it. Which is why I'm wording myself clearly albeit non-sensible so that those with deeper understanding can help me learn.

However, your example about mind-swapping still doesn't explain why transgender people need to identify as the opposite sex. If my mind was in a female body, what part of my mind would tell me 'this is the wrong body'? Is it all about genitals? Because there's no other factor that limits men from doing what women do and vice versa, legally speaking.

Also, I have a big problem with the bolded part. "Anything else" doesn't sound like a real thing, but indeed a mental illness. When someone identifies as a cat girl (as in the video above), is that healthy and should be encouraged by society?

We're deep into the theoretical, but the primary way you interface with the world is through your body. If you felt like your body was fundamentally wrong on the most basic level, then I think that would affect things greatly. I obviously have not experienced that so I can't speak first hand to the way it feels, but I imagine that a part of your core identity being denied does not feel good. A basic example is "left handed or right handed" there's something in your brain that pre-determines what hand you will favour. Another example is sexual identity, there's something in your brain that pre-determines that. Going against these pre-determined identity points just feels wrong to us and can cause us a lot of distress, especially if that part of our identity is a core part of who we are. Our gender is a core part of who we are.

Identifying as a cat or Goku is not the same, these are not human gender identities. To me, that's the same argument as saying gay people are the same as people who want to have sex with animals or tractors. I say "anything else", because there are people who identify as no gender identity.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I think it is more to do with the state of the society. Eventually during the childhood person might have love to mother, father, opposite or same sex, children, dogs and others. He might thing he is different or special. The question is whether the state of the society allows the development of those feelings or not. When the science will allow to transplant - I don't know for example dog head to human (if he feels like a dog) and some people will love that - I wonder whether it will be considered natural or not. Or when you will be able to send you conscious to child body or something.

So natural thing - from my point of view - is that only the state you are born. Everything else depends on the environment (at least as long as we don't interfere with the development of the fetus. I can imagine something like - "I feel I have boy", "It is a girl", "My feelings say that it is the boy, let's modify the genes", "Roger")

 

[Rocket Number 22]

It takes a thick skin to share a lot of things. That shouldn't be a reason to not talk about different subjects.

This topic is about "nearly 1 in 3 Americans believing being transgender is a mental illness or a sin" so to reply to this thread one basically should in one way or form say it either isn't or it is, or that it's a mixed issue but still say something about how it either is or isn't an illness of some sort. Essentially you want people to, what, say it isn't rather than it is so that transgender people would feel safe to say anything in this thread? Should this thread be just about posts where people can say the poll result is alarming and those people are wrong? We shouldn't be able to talk about its connections to what people often would consider as being an illness of some sort because transgender people don't have thick enough skin? Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of transgender people who have super thick skin and wouldn't mind about talking about the subject so I'm not sure what good does you or anyone else telling in their behalf how they must feel do.

There is thick skin and there is not feeling compelled to defend who you are, I never had to justify myself to anyone when I was a gay male so why should I now? I consulted with family, friends and most importantly healthcare professionals.

I'm happy to discuss my experience but if it comes down to "this doctor, this doctor and this poll say you trannies are mental!" what reasonable response could I give? (Obviously cite differing sources etc but you get the point, I don't need to constantly live on the defensive) I don't need to convince or win over any online opinion.

I and many others just want to fly under the radar and live how we feel is right in ourselves, i'm not interested in forcing people to think like me or speak the way I dictate.

 

[betrayal]

I don't have anything against transgender. If someone wants to change their gender, then so be it. Society needs to accept it. Also transgender people having a way higher rate of attempting suicide or having mental disorders is due to the fact of the discrimination (in all its varieties) they are facing. There are many studies backing this up.

Getting to the question if transgender is a mental illness is a tough one to answer. I personally don't think so. But what i do think is, that it is not the norm or the way nature "designed" human beings. But with the very fast evolution of humans and the things we all have in our heads, i do believe that thoughts, cultural imprints, evironmental conditioning and many more things can lead to thought processes that can change peoples perception. Not only of the things around them, but of themselves.
Examples of this are everywhere. Everyone has it's own reality (the interpretation of all the things happening in our lifes) and this makes things really complex. We also have people believing to be aliens, animals, coming from the future/past and whatever you can think of. They do really believe this and so do transgender people.
A society starting to accept certain things also encourages people in their journey of changing genders. In this context i do believe if people would accept other people who think they're animals we would suddenly see a rise in "animal-humans", because people, under certain circumstances, have a lower social entry barrier to these thoughts. It is a cycle that enforces itself. Is it good? Is it bad? I can't say and it is not my call to judge.

 

[Discourse]

I hope more societies can just accept people as they are. There's too much hatred and discrimination towards trans people that leads to mental health problems and suicide.

 

[Alx]

A basic example is "left handed or right handed" there's something in your brain that pre-determines what hand you will favour. Another example is sexual identity, there's something in your brain that pre-determines that. Going against these pre-determined identity points just feels wrong to us and can cause us a lot of distress, especially if that part of our identity is a core part of who we are. Our gender is a core part of who we are.

It's funny because I used the leftie argument in the previous thread, and it didn't seem to work that well. But yeah, as a leftie my brain tells me to use my left hand, just like it tells me to be attracted to women. And I'm all "ok brain, let's do it". And sometimes it's not entirely convenient to be a leftie in a world of righties, and I understand gay people can face difficulties to be accepted as such, but eh that's life. And most importantly lefties and gay people don't conclude "there's something wrong with me" (not any more, anyway). It's the "feels wrong" part that I don't understand, why would it ? It doesn't feel wrong to me to use my left hand, it's just what I do.

 

[Paasei]

As of 2016 The World Health Organization also considers transgender-ism a mental illness....

Transgenders have a suicide rate that far exceeds that of any other group. Also a sign of mental illness.

And here I was thinking that being transgender is "nothing" more than being trapped in the body of the different gender. As in a boy who is trapped in the body of a girl, or the other way around.
Thinking you're a cat, thinking you are always 6 years old or wanting to be paralyzed clearly looks like a mental illness to me. Or simply dying to get attention.

 

[bad guy]

People have opinions. Horrific!

 

[Sentenza]

And here I was thinking that being transgender is "nothing" more than being trapped in the body of the different gender. As in a boy who is trapped in the body of a girl, or the other way around.

Not sure why you did. It may work as a figure of speech, but scientifically speaking "being trapped in the wrong body for you" doesn't make any sense.

 

[TheGraykid]

It's funny because I used the leftie argument in the previous thread, and it didn't seem to work that well. But yeah, as a leftie my brain tells me to use my left hand, just like it tells me to be attracted to women. And I'm all "ok brain, let's do it". And sometimes it's not entirely convenient to be a leftie in a world of righties, and I understand gay people can face difficulties to be accepted as such, but eh that's life. And most importantly lefties and gay people don't conclude "there's something wrong with me" (not any more, anyway). It's the "feels wrong" part that I don't understand, why would it ? It doesn't feel wrong to me to use my left hand, it's just what I do.

The left-handed thing obviously isn't on the same level as your gender identity, but I think it's an interesting thought exercise. It's all about realigning yourself with your identity. "there's something wrong" is the conclusion though in all cases. If you are gay, and yet you end up in a situation where you're in a straight relationship you may go "there's something wrong" and end that relationship and start dating people of the same sex. That's you realigning yourself with your identity. Trans people see what they're doing as just them realigning themselves with their identity.

It appears that you're a straight man who is attracted to women, what would it be like for you to have grown up in a world where you have to live as a gay man? That feeling is in my head what might be comparable.

 

[Snoopycat]

To me it seems most of the world's problems are caused by people who can't keep their noses out of other people's business. If a man believes he's a woman and wants to live as one then so what, it's not going to hurt anyone's day. Let people be.

 

[Sentenza]

To me it seems most of the world's problems are caused by people who can't keep their noses out of other people's business. If a man believes he's a woman and wants to live as one then so what, it's not going to hurt anyone's day. Let people be.

It seems to be that you are mixing two different arguments.
Believing that "trans persons" have right to live their lives as they want and that they are in a state of perfect mental health are two very distinct topics that hardly overlap, if not just to a minor degree.

 

[KevinKeene]

higher rate of attempting suicide or having mental disorders is due to the fact of the discrimination (in all its varieties) they are facing. There are many studies backing this up.

That's actually wrong. Suicide among transgender mostly stems self-hate, discomfort and perceived discrimination (where there is none).

That's why suicide rates stay the same pre- and post-operation.

 

[Alx]

It appears that you're a straight man who is attracted to women, what would it be like for you to have grown up in a world where you have to live as a gay man? That feeling is in my head what might be comparable.

That would probably be the same thing gay people felt in a world where they had to live as a straight man (or woman). Or as a matter of fact when left-handed people were forced to use their right hand. But in the end the problem was society, and not themselves, and things got better when their nature/identity was accepted as such (not exactly solved for gay people, but we're making progress).
I totally understand transgender people asking for more acceptance from other people. But I don't understand them having issues with their own condition.

 

[llien]

That's actually wrong. Suicide among transgender mostly stems self-hate, discomfort and perceived discrimination (where there is none).

Could you share the link to the study you've just cited?

It doesn't need to stem from a single factor, or necessarily from external one, but expecting constant societal pressure to contribute to self-hate is hardly unreasonable