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[mid83]

I will be honest and admit I will never understand what it’s like to be transgender. I couldn’t begin to imagine what it feels like to feel “trapped” in the wrong gender or to know your body doesn’t match what gender you feel you are.

That said, if transitioning is what it takes to provide happiness to transgender individuals, then I’m more than happy for them to choose that option. We all deserve a happy life.

My main concern is the movement I’ve seen mentioned in some places towards pushing transitioning on children, and in some cases discussions about parents being punished, or even losing their child, over not falling in line with this.

 

[TheGraykid]

I actually want to take a step backwards and ask a question.
When we have sex why do we need "gender"?

With sex we have male or female.
Some frogs change sex from female to male.
Some fish change from male to female
Some fish are true hermaphrodites.

Why do we need to pile "gender" on top of "sex"? Is this a Western thing?

Psychologists have been looking into gender for a century. This isn't something that's being forced in by Western Countries, this is psychologist's understanding of how we work. And in multiple countries across the world other genders have sprung up around the traditional two you know of. I would look into gender identity if you're confused.

 

[Durask]

Psychologists have been looking into gender for a century. This isn't something that's being forced in by Western Countries, this is psychologist's understanding of how we work. And in multiple countries across the world other genders have sprung up around the traditional two you know of. I would look into gender identity if you're confused.

My question is - why do we need the concept of gender to begin with?

 

[TheGraykid]

My question is - why do we need the concept of gender to begin with?

Because it explains why we are what we are. If we took your brain out and put it in a jar you would still identify with whatever gender you do right now, even though your sex has completely vanished. Why does any other psychological concept exist?

 

[AngularSaxophone]

This may be my first and only last post on this forum, as honestly some of the comments under this topic have been pretty upsetting. I've learned over the past few years that trying to convince people of the validity of my existence is more exhausting than it is worth. Many people have already made their minds up on the subject of transgender/transsexual people based on their own personal bias or whatever study coincides with their own view, despite many other studies showing the contrary. There is no one reason that people become transgender or transsexual, and what is the story for a few many be very different from the many. Everyone is welcome and entitled to their own opinion, and I don't want to waste your time trying to change your mind.

All I can offer is my own story:

Spoiler

I grew up in a Christian home and am a person of strong Christian faith myself. I never suffered sexual abuse, and never got into drugs or anything else deemed unhealthy. My family was happy and I was a mostly well adjusted kid. Still, I knew I was different from about the age of 4, feeling much more in common with girls than boys. I never wanted to do anything I felt would be disapproved of or bring stress to my parents, so I kept my feelings to myself as much as possible. I was a very quiet kid in school, and usually stayed in my own world...focusing mostly on drawing and eventually videogames for escape. I was a very kind and considerate child, and had empathy even for those that picked on me...so I never really ever got mad at anyone no matter what they did. Still, the bullying and derogatory remarks began seriously instilling the feeling that there was something deeply wrong with me, so I did my best to hide and fit in...although my efforts were not very effective. The occasional transphobic church sermon as well as extremely negative representation in the media certainly didn't help matters.

I started disliking my body at a very young age, and the feeling was compounded by the fact that my body had a couple of genital abnormalities and malformations which I had to have surgery on when I was 11. Slowly after the surgery, testosterone began changing my body through puberty (although I would remain mostly asexual for the remainder of my life). The more my body changed, the more I hated my reflection and felt bad about myself. Finally around age 14, I learned I wasn't alone when I saw Caroline Cossey on The Phil Donahue Show (this was back before the Internet was so widely used.) I knew I was transsexual, but I was still far too scared to let anyone know.

Fast forward 20-something years of trying my absolute hardest to live as a 'regular guy' out of fear of rejection from all I held dear, as well as a fear that God disapproved...even though it was never anything I ever chose to feel, and often fought hard against and tried to pray away. Living through all that time trying to fit into the role opposite my own gender identity caused me eventual intense self-hatred, depression, and suicidal feelings. For a couple of years, I actually felt it was better for me to die and take my secret to the grave rather than risk losing everyone I loved. Eventually I decided it would hurt everyone worse if I killed myself, so I decided to give my life one more chance by doing what I had wanted to 20 years earlier...I decided to come out as transgender and begin transition.

Now, I am a transsexual 2 years into full gender transition and have never felt happier. I am finally comfortable with myself and have a growing confidence like I had never known, and all my depression and anxiety have disappeared. I am incredibly grateful I did not end my life, and I see each new day living as my genuine self as a blessing . My faith in God has never been stronger, and I am thankful for the empathy and compassion the life I have been given has helped me have for other people of all walks of life.

There is still a lot of work to do, but it makes me happy to see that understanding has grown and there are less people who believe it is sinful or a mental disorder now. I hope I can use my life experience to help bridge the gap of understanding between the Christian and transgender communities. I believe each and every one of us are all born as innocent children...each precious and deserving of a chance at living a meaningful life, no matter how different we may be.

- - -

I know many transgender and transsexual people, both in everyday life and online. Out of several hundreds of people, I only know of one person in the group who had regret after their transition. They had a similar story to that of the false-transsexual Walt Heyer, who is well known and the biggest contributor to the "Sex-Change Regret" argument. OF COURSE Mr Heyer would have regret after having a sex change when he was admittedly never transgender to begin with, but psychologically damaged by his sexually abusive uncle as a child, causing him to become an alcoholic suffering from dissociative disorder. He admittedly lied to the therapists he saw in order to get to his goals, which he later understandably regretted. His story is a sad one for sure, but it is very irritating that he believes his own experience of being 'transgender' is shared by all other transgender people, which is absolutely NOT the case. - http://www.transchristians.org/people/walt-heyer

The vast majority of trans people I know are much happier people after transitioning, and the main struggles they continue to have are acceptance in society, as well as maintaining employment and proper healthcare. When we find acceptance and kindness from those we love, as well as at least polite behavior from strangers, we can flourish in society just like anyone else.

Do you believe that Christ is the Son of God?

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

If an individuals definition of a man/woman includes being physically that gender, then of course the idea of a particular gender being defined entirely by the brain and emotions will seem crazy.

 

[Ailynn]

Do you believe that Christ is the Son of God?

I do. I believe in the holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Some people may question my mental faculties for believing this, just as others may because my gender identity differs from my birth sex. Some have tried to convince me I'm wrong on both accounts, but my faith and sense of soul are core to my being. I'm finally at peace with myself, and better able to show love to all and help those in need.

 

[nightfly]

I think this is a great video:



"If gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender?"

Really makes one think.

 

[SatansReverence]

I think this is a great video:



"If gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender?"

Really makes one think.

You can poke holes in modern feminist logic all day. Video is largely irrelevant to the topic though.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I think this is a great video:



"If gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender?"

Really makes one think.

I don't really understand the argument he's making. Gender as a social construct, is a set of characteristics / categories we give labels to. Those characteristics include personality traits, identity, social structures like gender roles, but also can include biological components. He seems to think that if it's social, it can't include anything biological at all.

Society decided that one aspect of "masculinity" is having a penis. It's one of many. It's not required, because no one perfectly and entirely encompasses the gender they identify with.

That's my understanding, anyway.

 

[KevinKeene]

Think of what a “sin” is. I go through this in my mind a lot. Would you want to be lied to? Does anyone? Would you want someone screwing your wife? Would you want something stolen from you? Would you go around killing for no reason? Would you appreciate it if someone always came to you jealous or envious of the things you had? It’s not like He left a list of really shitty things to follow and if you agree with them then either a: you’ll accept Him or you won’t. Chances are if you don’t you’ll end up tangled in some part of the shit end of the stick as far as the bad things go. We get forgiveness through Christ but we aren’t free from sinning as sin leads to needless suffering for one and for two hurting others wether intentionally or not. Part of that is selfishness.

Very creepy posting. :/

 

[Cato]

butwhy.gif?

It isn't a choice.

Explain why many change their minds and transition back.


That clues us in that at least some of them are transitioning for the wrong reason. And for some, like MtF transitions, as there is no
meaningful way to transition back it leaves them in a much worse position than from the start as they are now in a much worse spot.

This is why we should be a lot more restrictive and conservative with surgical realignments. Sometimes there is no going back
if the patient changes his/her mind and you have just made a bad situation much worse.

This is not unlike "I know something is wrong, but if I become a catholic priest and pray to god real hard, the wrong will go away."
That didn't work for the catholic church either.


It is not unusual that people with serious mental issues wish to "become something else" as their only viable means to
address their situation. Some of those probably choose transgenderism for their escape path.


Some transgender people, like Brair White aand such, are likely genuine, and do benefit from a transition. These don't consider themself
transgender but want to be, and be treated as, the sex they transition to. They often do not identify as trans. They identify as the sex
they transitioned to.

Some transgender people remain in some sort of limbo, where they never fully transition but remain in some halfway state.
These often refer to themself and identify as being trans as their main identity perpetually.
I am personally uncertain how genuinely trans these are versus the first group above.


Still, as they have >40% suicide rates both before as well as after transitioning. To me it seems that the do need help.
That is a tragedy. I am uncertain on whether surgical realignment is the best approach in every case.

 

[Cato]

Oh, we should also get rid of the stigma around mental illness.
A lot of people have mental illnesses, myself included.

For example depression or fobi are minor forms of mental illness

Most of the time it does not impact normal life much, but one should be aware of it.
Mental illness does not make you a second class citizen. You should though get treatment
if it gets severe enough that it impacts your ability to live a normal life.

 

[TheGraykid]

Explain why many change their minds and transition back.


That clues us in that at least some of them are transitioning for the wrong reason. And for some, like MtF transitions, as there is no
meaningful way to transition back it leaves them in a much worse position than from the start as they are now in a much worse spot.

This is why we should be a lot more restrictive and conservative with surgical realignments. Sometimes there is no going back
if the patient changes his/her mind and you have just made a bad situation much worse.

This is not unlike "I know something is wrong, but if I become a catholic priest and pray to god real hard, the wrong will go away."
That didn't work for the catholic church either.


It is not unusual that people with serious mental issues wish to "become something else" as their only viable means to
address their situation. Some of those probably choose transgenderism for their escape path.


Some transgender people, like Brair White aand such, are likely genuine, and do benefit from a transition. These don't consider themself
transgender but want to be, and be treated as, the sex they transition to. They often do not identify as trans. They identify as the sex
they transitioned to.

Some transgender people remain in some sort of limbo, where they never fully transition but remain in some halfway state.
These often refer to themself and identify as being trans as their main identity perpetually.
I am personally uncertain how genuinely trans these are versus the first group above.


Still, as they have >40% suicide rates both before as well as after transitioning. To me it seems that the do need help.
That is a tragedy. I am uncertain on whether surgical realignment is the best approach in every case.

What country do you live in? In most developed countries with state health insurance, the treatment involves a lot of things including over six months of counselling in the UK that helps people make the correct choices for them. People can end up and feel relatively comfortable in a lot of physical states. The whole "genuine trans" concept you have seems completely baseless, especially when you're implying that people who don't "fully transition" might not be genuinely transgender. Flash decisions aren't being made here, no healthcare system is advocating for that so I don't reallly know what you're arguing against. Total physical transitions aren't being made on a whim here, it is not an easy process to access. "I know something is wrong, but if I become a catholic priest and pray to god real hard, the wrong will go away." feels like an intense mischaracterisation of what people go through, and how medical systems help people.

Also with the mental illness thing, as said by the American Psychological Association:

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. "

So, can we please stop talking in this way.

 

[Cato]

What country do you live in? In most developed countries with state health insurance, the treatment involves a lot of things including over six months of counselling in the UK that helps people make the correct choices for them. People can end up and feel relatively comfortable in a lot of physical states. The whole "genuine trans" concept you have seems completely baseless, especially when you're implying that people who don't "fully transition" might not be genuinely transgender. Flash decisions aren't being made here, no healthcare system is advocating for that so I don't reallly know what you're arguing against. Total physical transitions aren't being made on a whim here, it is not an easy process to access. "I know something is wrong, but if I become a catholic priest and pray to god real hard, the wrong will go away." feels like an intense mischaracterisation of what people go through, and how medical systems help people.

Also with the mental illness thing, as said by the American Psychological Association:

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. "

So, can we please stop talking in this way.

My passport says Sweden.

 

[llien]

Explain why many change their minds and transition back.

Because it's even worse and possibly for environmental reasons?

My point actually was that the very fact someone is facing the dilemma is not a choice, they are different. It's not even subjective, while we can't just look at someones brain and state with certainty it's trans, there are detectable differences.

That clues us in that at least some of them are transitioning for the wrong reason. And for some, like MtF transitions, as there is no
meaningful way to transition back it leaves them in a much worse position than from the start as they are now in a much worse spot.

This is why we should be a lot more restrictive and conservative with surgical realignments.

This makes perfect sense.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I do. I believe in the holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Some people may question my mental faculties for believing this, just as others may because my gender identity differs from my birth sex. Some have tried to convince me I'm wrong on both accounts, but my faith and sense of soul are core to my being. I'm finally at peace with myself, and better able to show love to all and help those in need.

Read a psalm every day. Christ said there’s a lot in that book about him. Here’s something else for you too. Hope this helps you in your walk.

 

[Kamina]

My question is - why do we need the concept of gender to begin with?

In German there is no such thing as gender, as sex and gender are considered one and the same. “Geschlecht”.
If you are biologically male you are a he (er), if you a biologically female you are a she (sie). Constructions like Genderfluid and so do not exist. And while some tried to implement the word gender as “Soziales Geschlecht” (social gender), this has not been widely accepted. In short: peope are adressed according to their sex, not whatever they feel like socially. This is why the whole gender debate is hard to understand for many people here. I honestly would also find it weird if a girl(sex) would scold me for adressing her as “her” just because “she” doesn’t identify as such, when she clearly is.
Naturally the word Transgender also doesn’t exist. Everyone who is trans is just called Transsexual.

 

[Moff]

I think this is a great video:



"If gender is a social construct, how can one be transgender?"

Really makes one think.

Gender and Gender identity are not a social construct. Gender roles are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
The story of David Reimer is a sad reminder of that.

 

[Blam]

Shouldn`t transgender people take into consideration that some people might not want to have sex with a transgender though

Then those people should stop being so attracted to everything that gives them attention.

 

[TheMikado]

We are born close to God and corrupted by the world. That’s where the whole don’t love the world and be in the world and not of it thing comes from. He doesn’t make any drunks, liars or cheaters. We become those things ourselves by living in worldliness.

No, we are born into sin with sinful natures. There is nothing sinful about being born transgender.

 

[Corrik]

This may be my first and only last post on this forum, as honestly some of the comments under this topic have been pretty upsetting. I've learned over the past few years that trying to convince people of the validity of my existence is more exhausting than it is worth. Many people have already made their minds up on the subject of transgender/transsexual people based on their own personal bias or whatever study coincides with their own view, despite many other studies showing the contrary. There is no one reason that people become transgender or transsexual, and what is the story for a few many be very different from the many. Everyone is welcome and entitled to their own opinion, and I don't want to waste your time trying to change your mind.

All I can offer is my own story:

Spoiler

I grew up in a Christian home and am a person of strong Christian faith myself. I never suffered sexual abuse, and never got into drugs or anything else deemed unhealthy. My family was happy and I was a mostly well adjusted kid. Still, I knew I was different from about the age of 4, feeling much more in common with girls than boys. I never wanted to do anything I felt would be disapproved of or bring stress to my parents, so I kept my feelings to myself as much as possible. I was a very quiet kid in school, and usually stayed in my own world...focusing mostly on drawing and eventually videogames for escape. I was a very kind and considerate child, and had empathy even for those that picked on me...so I never really ever got mad at anyone no matter what they did. Still, the bullying and derogatory remarks began seriously instilling the feeling that there was something deeply wrong with me, so I did my best to hide and fit in...although my efforts were not very effective. The occasional transphobic church sermon as well as extremely negative representation in the media certainly didn't help matters.

I started disliking my body at a very young age, and the feeling was compounded by the fact that my body had a couple of genital abnormalities and malformations which I had to have surgery on when I was 11. Slowly after the surgery, testosterone began changing my body through puberty (although I would remain mostly asexual for the remainder of my life). The more my body changed, the more I hated my reflection and felt bad about myself. Finally around age 14, I learned I wasn't alone when I saw Caroline Cossey on The Phil Donahue Show (this was back before the Internet was so widely used.) I knew I was transsexual, but I was still far too scared to let anyone know.

Fast forward 20-something years of trying my absolute hardest to live as a 'regular guy' out of fear of rejection from all I held dear, as well as a fear that God disapproved...even though it was never anything I ever chose to feel, and often fought hard against and tried to pray away. Living through all that time trying to fit into the role opposite my own gender identity caused me eventual intense self-hatred, depression, and suicidal feelings. For a couple of years, I actually felt it was better for me to die and take my secret to the grave rather than risk losing everyone I loved. Eventually I decided it would hurt everyone worse if I killed myself, so I decided to give my life one more chance by doing what I had wanted to 20 years earlier...I decided to come out as transgender and begin transition.

Now, I am a transsexual 2 years into full gender transition and have never felt happier. I am finally comfortable with myself and have a growing confidence like I had never known, and all my depression and anxiety have disappeared. I am incredibly grateful I did not end my life, and I see each new day living as my genuine self as a blessing . My faith in God has never been stronger, and I am thankful for the empathy and compassion the life I have been given has helped me have for other people of all walks of life.

There is still a lot of work to do, but it makes me happy to see that understanding has grown and there are less people who believe it is sinful or a mental disorder now. I hope I can use my life experience to help bridge the gap of understanding between the Christian and transgender communities. I believe each and every one of us are all born as innocent children...each precious and deserving of a chance at living a meaningful life, no matter how different we may be.

- - -

I know many transgender and transsexual people, both in everyday life and online. Out of several hundreds of people, I only know of one person in the group who had regret after their transition. They had a similar story to that of the false-transsexual Walt Heyer, who is well known and the biggest contributor to the "Sex-Change Regret" argument. OF COURSE Mr Heyer would have regret after having a sex change when he was admittedly never transgender to begin with, but psychologically damaged by his sexually abusive uncle as a child, causing him to become an alcoholic suffering from dissociative disorder. He admittedly lied to the therapists he saw in order to get to his goals, which he later understandably regretted. His story is a sad one for sure, but it is very irritating that he believes his own experience of being 'transgender' is shared by all other transgender people, which is absolutely NOT the case. - http://www.transchristians.org/people/walt-heyer

The vast majority of trans people I know are much happier people after transitioning, and the main struggles they continue to have are acceptance in society, as well as maintaining employment and proper healthcare. When we find acceptance and kindness from those we love, as well as at least polite behavior from strangers, we can flourish in society just like anyone else.

I am happy you were happy with your choice and am proud you didn't succumb to suicide and instead had the strength to do something to give yourself the happiness to live. Thanks for your story. Be sad to see you go if you decide that.

 

[Airola]

We are born close to God and corrupted by the world. That’s where the whole don’t love the world and be in the world and not of it thing comes from. He doesn’t make any drunks, liars or cheaters. We become those things ourselves by living in worldliness.

No. It seems as if you are blaming the world for your problems.
Adam and Eve disobeyed God. They ate the fruit.
When questioned Adam blamed Eve. Then Eve blamed the snake. It didn't even get in their minds to accept they did wrong and to blame themselves.
Now you seem to blame the world when in reality the world is just what has become because of each of us. We make the world. We make whatever you mean by worldliness. It's all on us. You are the world. I am the world. They are the world. We all are the world.

We can call out who is corrupting us all we want and make an infinite line of people blaming someone else who then blames someone else etc, but God will judge every single one in that line and no matter how much we will point to the things that have corrupted us, we still are the ones who have fallen in the corruption all by ourselves and we are to blame. If you get seduced, the fault isn't fully in the seducer but also with the one who fell into seduction. We are these fallen creatures by nature. It is within all of us. None of us is able to sneak away from that.

So if we go and call out others from having a tendency for whatever we believe is sinful, we better take a look at ourselves first and see all the things we are born with that makes us love to sin. Absolutely everyone of us has that and even if we shut ourselves out from "the world" and try to keep us safe, we still have the sinful nature forever with us and we can fall into sin even if there isn't anyone there to "corrupt" us.

No, we are born into sin with sinful natures. There is nothing sinful about being born transgender.

This is correct, I think.

 

[TheMikado]

No. It seems as if you are blaming the world for your problems.
Adam and Eve disobeyed God. They ate the fruit.
When questioned Adam blamed Eve. Then Eve blamed the snake. It didn't even get in their minds to accept they did wrong and to blame themselves.
Now you seem to blame the world when in reality the world is just what has become because of each of us. We make the world. We make whatever you mean by worldliness. It's all on us. You are the world. I am the world. They are the world. We all are the world.

We can call out who is corrupting us all we want and make an infinite line of people blaming someone else who then blames someone else etc, but God will judge every single one in that line and no matter how much we will point to the things that have corrupted us, we still are the ones who have fallen in the corruption all by ourselves and we are to blame. If you get seduced, the fault isn't fully in the seducer but also with the one who fell into seduction. We are these fallen creatures by nature. It is within all of us. None of us is able to sneak away from that.

So if we go and call out others from having a tendency for whatever we believe is sinful, we better take a look at ourselves first and see all the things we are born with that makes us love to sin. Absolutely everyone of us has that and even if we shut ourselves out from "the world" and try to keep us safe, we still have the sinful nature forever with us and we can fall into sin even if there isn't anyone there to "corrupt" us.

This is correct, I think.

This is the correct interpretation. Biblical God created the world as perfect. Without disease or birth conditions, but the introduction of sin corrupted these and brought forth imperfections.

It is said that God does not create imperfect things, but this is human understanding. God himself said.

 

[Corrik]

If you guys want a religion topic, you should make one! lol = )

 

[AngularSaxophone]

No. Not at all. There is no sin in God. NONE. There is no lie in heaven, no adultery in heaven, no fornication in heaven. Did Christ not say all of those who continue to do those things will be left outside of heaven? Whenever He encountered anyone in sin, did He not EVERY SINGLE TIME tell them to turn away from those sins? Sin DOES NOT come from God as there is no sin in Him. As far as corruption, we are born into sin and find our way OUT of sin through God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit who is Truth. It says that at a time we are children but then it comes time to put away childish things. We are naive to the world and it’s ways and through God we have the opportunity to turn from the world and those ways and seek His ways and His will. Doing wrong IS NOT the will of God. It’s the will of the flesh. The will of the evil one. When you truly seek God you no longer want to do things you used to. That’s repentance. Again something that Christ always said to do. If you’re committing to something that’s not of God then where is the repentance in that?

 

[TheMikado]

No. Not at all. There is no sin in God. NONE. There is no lie in heaven, no adultery in heaven, no fornication in heaven. Did Christ not say all of those who continue to do those things will be left outside of heaven? Whenever He encountered anyone in sin, did He not EVERY SINGLE TIME tell them to turn away from those sins? Sin DOES NOT come from God as there is no sin in Him. As far as corruption, we are born into sin and find our way OUT of sin through God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit who is Truth. It says that at a time we are children but then it comes time to put away childish things. We are naive to the world and it’s ways and through God we have the opportunity to turn from the world and those ways and seek His ways and His will. Doing wrong IS NOT the will of God. It’s the will of the flesh. The will of the evil one. When you truly seek God you no longer want to do things you used to. That’s repentance. Again something that Christ always said to do. If you’re committing to something that’s not of God then where is the repentance in that?

Seems like to you confusing a lot of different things.
Being born different is not wrong.
You can debate whatever actions you want, but by merely being born these people are not wrong.
I will not debate you on the morality of any action.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Seems like to you confusing a lot of different things.
Being born different is not wrong.
You can debate whatever actions you want, but by merely being born these people are not wrong.
I will not debate you on the morality of any action.

That’s if you agree that being born transgender comes from God. That’s simply not true at all. And I’ll be clear I’m not saying that makes being transgendered some horrible thing. I’ve commited fornication MANY times in my life. I’ve had relationships with divorced women which would make me an adulterer. My sin is no different than the sins of those who chose to do things that aren’t from God. I believe where my forgiveness comes from is Christ who will lead you to both His Father and truth. With that comes the understanding of WHY you’re not supposed to do those things. Once you have that understanding and once you want to honor God and love Him, you shouldn’t want to do those things as there is guilt, shame and various other things associated with them that again are not of God but of the flesh or of the evil one.

 

[TheMikado]

That’s if you agree that being born transgender comes from God. That’s simply not true at all. And I’ll be clear I’m not saying that makes being transgendered some horrible thing. I’ve commited fornication MANY times in my life. I’ve had relationships with divorced women which would make me an adulterer. My sin is no different than the sins of those who chose to do things that aren’t from God. I believe where my forgiveness comes from is Christ who will lead you to both His Father and truth. With that comes the understanding of WHY you’re not supposed to do those things. Once you have that understanding and once you want to honor God and love Him, you shouldn’t want to do those things as there is guilt, shame and various other things associated with them that again are not of God but of the flesh or of the evil one.

So then we agree, being born transgender or gay is no different than being born with any other predisposition. Again, not talking about actions here but being born with a disposition does not make these people inherently wrong more so than anyone born with any other disposition and that being born with those dispositions are at least something God would know of and allow to happen as he does with everyone else born with any other disposition.

 

[Dr.Parity]

Explain why many change their minds and transition back.


That clues us in that at least some of them are transitioning for the wrong reason. And for some, like MtF transitions, as there is no
meaningful way to transition back it leaves them in a much worse position than from the start as they are now in a much worse spot.

This is why we should be a lot more restrictive and conservative with surgical realignments. Sometimes there is no going back
if the patient changes his/her mind and you have just made a bad situation much worse.

This is not unlike "I know something is wrong, but if I become a catholic priest and pray to god real hard, the wrong will go away."
That didn't work for the catholic church either.


It is not unusual that people with serious mental issues wish to "become something else" as their only viable means to
address their situation. Some of those probably choose transgenderism for their escape path.


Some transgender people, like Brair White aand such, are likely genuine, and do benefit from a transition. These don't consider themself
transgender but want to be, and be treated as, the sex they transition to. They often do not identify as trans. They identify as the sex
they transitioned to.

Some transgender people remain in some sort of limbo, where they never fully transition but remain in some halfway state.
These often refer to themself and identify as being trans as their main identity perpetually.
I am personally uncertain how genuinely trans these are versus the first group above.


Still, as they have >40% suicide rates both before as well as after transitioning. To me it seems that the do need help.
That is a tragedy. I am uncertain on whether surgical realignment is the best approach in every case.

Maybe if people didn't go around saying their self identity is a mental illness that suicide rate would tick down a bit

Oh, and the bit about "why so many regret it" is pretty much bullshit as well.

These statistics and misstatements are based on outdated research. More recent studies suggest that less than 4 percent of people who get gender-reassignment surgery regret it. Researchers have also found that the surgery dramatically reduces suicide rates among trans people. That makes sense — the surgery can improve self-esteem, body image and general life satisfaction. This is why the international standard of care for adolescents and adults in many countries is to offer transition services.
Of course, some people regret transitioning. A handful may even transition back. But the vast majority do not.

Of course, there are plenty of reasons why people regret their sexual transition. The fact that MtF transitions having a higher rate of regret could factor into the societal need of passing, the mental anguish of "failing to pass" and other factors that can crush someones self worth if they believe they are a women, but constantly struggle to show such a thing.

And of course, being transexual doesn't mean you're going to need or want sex-reassignment surgery in the first place.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

So then we agree, being born transgender or gay is no different than being born with any other predisposition. Again, not talking about actions here but being born with a disposition does not make these people inherently wrong more so than anyone born with any other disposition and that being born with those dispositions are at least something God would know of and allow to happen as he does with everyone else born with any other disposition.

People are not born gay, people are not born transgender. That’s like saying people are born liars and born killers. If someone IS born a liar or born a killer then that person is not of God at all.

 

[Dr.Parity]

People are born with massive psychotic disorders to the point where they lack empathy which means they develop through childhood lacking basic social understandings which easily lead them to be killers.

So yes, people are born killers, liars and all sorts of things.

 

[Corrik]

People are not born gay, people are not born transgender. That’s like saying people are born liars and born killers. If someone IS born a liar or born a killer then that person is not of God at all.

This post is not true for homosexuality. And, yes, you can be born with genetics that make you more likely to be a sociopath or an alcoholic or so on.

 

[TheGraykid]

People are not born gay, people are not born transgender. That’s like saying people are born liars and born killers. If someone IS born a liar or born a killer then that person is not of God at all.‬‬

Bruh. You can believe whatever religion you would like, but the way you're interpretating your religion make you sound like an science ignorant homophobe and transphobe.

 

[Dr.Parity]

Bruh. You can believe whatever religion you would like, but the way you're interpretating your religion make you sound like an science ignorant homophobe and transphobe.

He sounds like one because he is one

 

[Shamylov]

People are not born gay, people are not born transgender. That’s like saying people are born liars and born killers. If someone IS born a liar or born a killer then that person is not of God at all.

I don’t think science has fully figured out how people develop their sexual orientation and gender identity but it’s generally agreed upon that people are not in control of it. So it’s not appropriate to compare it with killing or lying.

“There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.”

www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

Also, I have no idea why religion was introduced into this discussion. I see no place for it and it’s discouraging me from participating. Can we please get back on the subject?

 

[TheMikado]

People are not born gay, people are not born transgender. That’s like saying people are born liars and born killers. If someone IS born a liar or born a killer then that person is not of God at all.

I'm respecting the moderators by not posting scripture, but no. You are confusing action with disposition. As I have stated we are not all born with the same disposition to things. Some are born with a propensity to alcohol and drunkenness. Some people experience abuse and thus struggle with violence. Some people are by their personality more jealous and envious, others have may be prone to break the 10 commandments and steal.
The cause of kleptomania is unknown, although it may have a genetic component and may be transmitted among first-degree relatives. Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Kleptomania.html#ixzz58cWb8SNH
Your claim that no one is born this way runs counter to scripture. Again you can debate the actions which I will not, but there is no scriptural basis for your claim because being gay or transgender is not an "ACTION" like being autistic is not an "ACTION". Its a condition, a state of being.

You're misunderstanding comes from the misunderstanding of what an act is and what a disposition is. Can you not see that people even several in the Bible are born with dispositions.

 

[TheMikado]

I don’t think science has fully figured out how people develop their sexual orientation and gender identity but it’s generally agreed upon that people are not in control of it. So it’s not appropriate to compare it with killing or lying.

“There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.”

www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

Also, I have no idea why religion was introduced into this discussion. I see no place for it and it’s discouraging me from participating. Can we please get back on the subject?

technically the aspect of seeing transgenderism as a sin is part of the topic so religion would fall into that.

 

[Blam]

I will be honest and admit I will never understand what it’s like to be transgender. I couldn’t begin to imagine what it feels like to feel “trapped” in the wrong gender or to know your body doesn’t match what gender you feel you are.

That said, if transitioning is what it takes to provide happiness to transgender individuals, then I’m more than happy for them to choose that option. We all deserve a happy life.

My main concern is the movement I’ve seen mentioned in some places towards pushing transitioning on children, and in some cases discussions about parents being punished, or even losing their child, over not falling in line with this.

It's really hard honestly to explain how you feel in my own body. I don't think I've ever felt like I belonged in my own body. Not once.

Nobody should force the child to transition but if the child mentions they want to there's no reason they shouldn't be given the option to.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Well homosexuality can be a mental illness. It can develop from a childhood trauma, like an abusive father or a neglecting mother, things like that. In which case it be cured by therapy.

Unfortunately many of these cases go untreated because of course it's not politically correct to even suggest this.

I suppose they'll get better with electric shock treatment?

How is this not a weeks timeout?

 

[Palliasso]

We feel like this thread had run it's course. The poll that's referred to in the OP feels like it was designed to spark anger or outrage on a number of topics - chief among them being scientific ("mental illness") and religious ("sin") ideologies - two schools of thought that don't often mix well as we've now seen.

While we respect the position on all sides of this argument, we feel that the discussion is getting too widely focused (religion vs science, religion vs religion, science vs religion, science vs science) to bring about meaningful discussion or to foster further understanding.