NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project (Off-Topic Edition)

ar0s

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Feb 21, 2018
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Dear Staff,

When you have time would you please review my account? Over 6 years I got 2 mod actions:

1. Last August I was banned for a month by a former mod and I don't think I deserve it. I don't think the celebrity was a good role model imo, which has nothing to do with their gender. It applies to both men and women. Was insulted and wrongfully labeled by the mob and mod, simply because of their assumptions.

2. 4 years ago I made a parody thread and got junior-ed. I deserve this one. I was immature, childish and the forum doesn't need a knee jerk reaction thread. I have learned the lessons and still regret it.

My question is that will my account ever gained back the "member" status? I don't have the ability to create thread, achievement points and conversations for over 4 years. I think I am a better poster now and hopefully can contribute to the community more.

Either way happy gaming everyone and wishing that the forum keeps growing! Thanks for reading!
Four years is pretty harsh. Hopefully Evilore sees this post and has mercy.
 

Beard of the Forest

The No. 1 cause of forest fires is trees.
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@EviLore

Can Kenclops get an unban? He never said anything racist or bigoted. He simply believes in education and didn’t mean to offend anyone.
His name isn't far down the list of bans I'm going through. Being a Beseda ban, there's a good chance he'll be unbanned.
 
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Xisiqomelir bishoptl 11-17-2016 30 Days 12-17-2016, ~11:00 AM 11 Days, 4 Hours [Lift Ban] [No handwaving today, plus that track record? Perm warning for next offense.]
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=224721462&postcount=967
(lifted; not banworthy or deserving of perm warning)
Thanks Tyler.

My "handwaving" can be read in the link. "that track record?" is (IIRC) 6-7 bans over 12 years, the harshest being Dragona coming down on me for posting the "Wii Train" meme.

Here's a thought that I'm sure the Besada/Lime/Angelus/Slayven/Marrec/mess collective would find permworthy: We were, and now are again, far better off with open moderation and no protected posters baiting and dogpiling with impunity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Such a thing as a perm warning existed? That's interesting, considering how many people got permabanned at the time, often without a long history of bans.
What’s even more interesting is that the ban reasons/warning did not display on the old mobile site, you only saw a blank NeoGAF page, they only showed up on the desktop version. So, if you only browsed GAF on mobile, you had no idea why you got banned or if you were warned.
 
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What’s even more interesting is that the ban reasons/warning did not display on the old mobile site, you only saw a blank NeoGAF page, they only showed up on the desktop version. So, if you only browsed GAF on mobile, you had no idea why you got banned or if you were warned.
It actually is a surprise to me that warnings existed. I have been banned three times and got pummeled (verbally) pretty well by Duckroll at one point, but never did I receive a formal warning.
 
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It actually is a surprise to me that warnings existed. I have been banned three times and got pummeled (verbally) pretty well by Duckroll at one point, but never did I receive a formal warning.
I meant people got a permaban warning included with their temp ban. In the “reasons” field. I assume sometimes, not all the time.

I never witnessed a mod give a permaban warning in a thread, if that’s what you mean?
 
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I know this is about old bans but can we also talk about recent ones which feel pretty strange?

It is about KevinKeene who was perma banned in the My little Pony pedophilia thread for an opinion I think I also share i terms of how we should people suffering from this disorder etc.

The reason "no pedos allowed" also is pretty non saying.

He never advocated for pedophila but for the act of not generalizing them instantly as a monster if they are not acting on it. It is a controversial opinion for sure. But he never was aggressive or insulting to other people. At least what I have read in the thread. He is passionate for sure. So am I but that should not matter in a discussion in my opinion. It is also an opinion I share since I think these people who suffer from it even because often they were sexually abused as a child, need all the help they can get and to make sure they are not acting on their desires and really hurting children.

@EviLore I would love if you could please take a look at it since he does not deserve this ban for an "controversial" that I also share. And I have not even gotten a warning for it.
 

ar0s

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He replied to someone elses argument re-stating their point but with the other poster as the subject. In this case, that implied the guy was a peado. Despite the context, it was still not appropriate and he got banned IIRC. Sure he will be back in a few days though, hopefully.
 
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I was also a little concerned when I saw he was banned. I can understand the mods have a lot of people with incendiary things to say in OT but I felt he had always been pretty even-keel.
 
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Wait he was perma'd? I thought the "Last seen" thing disappears if you are perma-banned?
He told me it was permanent, yes.
He replied to someone elses argument re-stating their point but with the other poster as the subject. In this case, that implied the guy was a peado. Despite the context, it was still not appropriate and he got banned IIRC. Sure he will be back in a few days though, hopefully.
That's an old ban. I have reached out to the mods and they confirmed to me he was banned for his postings in the "My Little Pony" thread.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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^^ Keene has been talking about this elsewhere, which is why i think @Dunki you are making references about.
Just for full disclosure, i PMed that whole ban thing to Tyler just as a mention and left it there. This was yesterday already. Whatever the staff has decided, i am sure they will do a follow up statement here.
 
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^^ Keene has been talking about this elsewhere, which is why i think @Dunki you are making references about.
Just for full disclosure, i PMed that whole ban thing to Tyler just as a mention and left it there. This was yesterday already. Whatever the staff has decided, i am sure they will do a follow up statement here.
I do not know wwhere he is talking about it elsewhere I just got informed by @Yoshi because he wanted me to now.

I just think it is a bit unfair especially with this kind of reasoning to me. Espceially when I basically say the same thing since we maybe were raised differently In Germany in terms of how to treat people with mental disorders. I hate this stigmatization of people with mental disorder or mental illness are bad people who need to be locked away from society.
 
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I know this is about old bans but can we also talk about recent ones which feel pretty strange?

It is about KevinKeene who was perma banned in the My little Pony pedophilia thread for an opinion I think I also share i terms of how we should people suffering from this disorder etc.

The reason "no pedos allowed" also is pretty non saying.

He never advocated for pedophila but for the act of not generalizing them instantly as a monster if they are not acting on it. It is a controversial opinion for sure. But he never was aggressive or insulting to other people. At least what I have read in the thread. He is passionate for sure. So am I but that should not matter in a discussion in my opinion. It is also an opinion I share since I think these people who suffer from it even because often they were sexually abused as a child, need all the help they can get and to make sure they are not acting on their desires and really hurting children.

@EviLore I would love if you could please take a look at it since he does not deserve this ban for an "controversial" that I also share. And I have not even gotten a warning for it.
You banned one of your most enthusiastic, well-spoken, active users for making a logical well-presented case for an alternative way to deal with pedophilia that could potentially protect children from being sexually abused? I don't agree with his idea, but there was nothing morally reprehensible or blatantly false about it.

He obviously cares about this forum and cares about society and people in general. If his ban is permanent I'll join him in not posting here.
 

ar0s

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Feb 21, 2018
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I think if we had a thread about serious drug addiction most users would have a negative view so not surprised an empathetic view of how to treat various types of sexual preference is looked on fairly harshly.
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
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Such a thing as a perm warning existed? That's interesting, considering how many people got permabanned at the time, often without a long history of bans.
Yeah. The words perm warning were put into my last ban. There didn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to them other than how the mod was feeling that day or how many of their friends complained.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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I do not know wwhere he is talking about it elsewhere I just got informed by @Yoshi because he wanted me to now.

I just think it is a bit unfair especially with this kind of reasoning to me. Espceially when I basically say the same thing since we maybe were raised differently In Germany in terms of how to treat people with mental disorders. I hate this stigmatization of people with mental disorder or mental illness are bad people who need to be locked away from society.
I agree. But implications or not, there is a standard we should maintain. I can't say if either Matt's or Kevin's failed to maintain that standard, because A: I haven't seen their posts and B: I don't care that much either. I do know the topic Keene was talking in didn't share my interest that much, hence why i didn't partake into it. I generally don't care for MLP, so i dont post in there.

Whether i agree with the perm or not is one thing. I originally PMed for more transparency and its on its way. As for the perm itself: The decision is on theirs, but i reckon that, seeing as people (including myself, darn it!) are posting about it, a staff statement is in order.

Tagging @Beard of the Forest and @DGrayson for this.

You banned one of your most enthusiastic, well-spoken, active users for making a logical well-presented case for an alternative way to deal with pedophilia that could potentially protect children from being sexually abused? I don't agree with his idea, but there was nothing morally reprehensible or blatantly false about it.

He obviously cares about this forum and cares about society and people in general. If his ban is permanent I'll join him in not posting here.
That sounds kind of pre-mature to do. If the staff is willing to, allow them to present their counter-argument.

And if this happens more often (Because hey, i am not a blind hawk either) then there will be a topic about it. But this silly ''If he isnt here and its a perm then ill quit too'' without hearing both parties is... silly. But feel free to do so though. I am just a regular member. :)
 
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I agree. But implications or not, there is a standard we should maintain. I can't say if either Matt's or Kevin's failed to maintain that standard, because A: I haven't seen their posts and B: I don't care that much either. I do know the topic Keene was talking in didn't share my interest that much, hence why i didn't partake into it. I generally don't care for MLP, so i dont post in there.

Whether i agree with the perm or not is one thing. I originally PMed for more transparency and its on its way. As for the perm itself: The decision is on theirs, but i reckon that, seeing as people (including myself, darn it!) are posting about it, a staff statement is in order.

Tagging @Beard of the Forest and @DGrayson for this.


That sounds kind of pre-mature to do. If the staff is willing to, allow them to present their counter-argument.

And if this happens more often (Because hey, i am not a blind hawk either) then there will be a topic about it. But this silly ''If he isnt here and its a perm then ill quit too'' without hearing both parties is... silly. But feel free to do so though. I am just a regular member. :)
Provided they haven't deleted any posts that led to his ban, I can't imagine what rationale they could provide that would justify it.

It's their forum that they should develop to suit their own tastes, but if banning good users for posting ideas that they don't like is their vision for their site, then I'm not interested. The last thing that this place needs is more banning.
 

ar0s

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Feb 21, 2018
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Neogaf has a reputation with regards to pedos though so I can understand in some ways given KK has been banned for pro-pedo stuff a couple of times if they just thought "he cannot keep away from threads on the subject and we do not want to monitor him constantly."
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
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Provided they haven't deleted any posts that led to his ban, I can't imagine what rationale they could provide that would justify it.
Which is why its best to keep an open mind and not make these threats of leaving when they haven't yet had the chance to answer back. Nor do they have to, though, but that's on them.

It's their forum that they should develop to suit their own tastes, but if banning good users for posting ideas that they don't like is their vision for their site, then I'm not interested. The last thing that this place needs is more banning.
I understand what you are saying, but, and forgive me for making that mention, this post sounds a tad dramatic, especially the bolded. It comes as no surprise that OT is very popular about things that are in the news, and it might serve as a stress-test for the new staff at bay.

Bumps and hiccups can and should be expected on the way, but i am not going to complain about a flat tyre just because we have hit the first pebble near the forest :)

That being said though, as always, i am a major proponent for a parole system in the case of permbans. But until then, lets just wait it out till the staff does its saying.
 
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I haven't seen anything way out of line to justify those bans, but maybe some things were deleted?
I know GAF has a history of lousy moderation, but the current team hasn't done anything so far to make us doubt them, on the contrary. Let's wait to hear from them before making judgement?
 
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Which is why its best to keep an open mind and not make these threats of leaving when they haven't yet had the chance to answer back. Nor do they have to, though, but that's on them.


I understand what you are saying, but, and forgive me for making that mention, this post sounds a tad dramatic, especially the bolded. It comes as no surprise that OT is very popular about things that are in the news, and it might serve as a stress-test for the new staff at bay.

Bumps and hiccups can and should be expected on the way, but i am not going to complain about a flat tyre just because we have hit the first pebble near the forest :)

That being said though, as always, i am a major proponent for a parole system in the case of permbans. But until then, lets just wait it out till the staff does its saying.
"The last thing that this place needs is more banning" is a tad dramatic? How is it at all dramatic? There are 80-to-just-under 200 active posters at any given time, which is less than great if you like multiple active threads on a wide variety of topics. And this is subjective, but I've seen people get out of hand a total of zero times. They argue and call each other names on occasion, but there's nothing wrong with conflict; it's just words. It's better than encouraging an endless string of overly dry emotionless debates between Spock and Sam Harris on sedatives, or 24/7 of nicey nicey.

But people are banned on a regular basis; they're banned far too often for insignificant "mistakes". Just let them discuss and banter, get heated, joke around and hopefully get weird and interesting now and then. "Flat tyre" is a good name for what heavy handed moderation promotes. Flat forums.
 
Likes: ar0s
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Neogaf has a reputation with regards to pedos though so I can understand in some ways given KK has been banned for pro-pedo stuff a couple of times if they just thought "he cannot keep away from threads on the subject and we do not want to monitor him constantly."
Due to the Anihawk Amir0x stuff I can understand if the do not want to have discussions about pedophilia here, but then they should just state that instead of banning someone for suggesting his vision of a fair treatment (which is not contrary to any current laws, but additive). Also, the other ban wrt pedophilia, as far as I am aware was suggesting as a jab that someone may be pedophile, this does not count as pro-pedophilia I'd think.
 
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My original account was called Gekidami .

I was banned for pointed out that Anita Sarkeesian doesn't do debates. I'd at least love to have my username set back to Gekidami and e-mail set to the one I was using for my old account.
 
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Due to the Anihawk stuff I can understand if the do not want to have discussions about pedophilia here, but then they should just state that instead of banning someone for suggesting his vision of a fair treatment (which is not contrary to any current laws, but additive). Also, the other ban wrt pedophilia, as far as I am aware was suggesting as a jab that someone may be pedophile, this does not count as pro-pedophilia I'd think.
Also let us not forget I had basically the same opinion and did not even get a warning.
 
Likes: Toraneko78

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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"The last thing that this place needs is more banning" is a tad dramatic? How is it at all dramatic?
Due to two things:
  • The fact that you threaten to leave this forum if the ban turns out to be a perm (Which you don't know yet, but you already make this statement in advance)
  • The fact that among that statement you also say: ''but if banning good users for posting ideas that they don't like is their vision for their site, then I'm not interested.'' - Again, there is no statement given yet but you already say these things in advance.

There are 80-to-just-under 200 active posters at any given time, which is less than great if you like multiple active threads on a wide variety of topics. And this is subjective, but I've seen people get out of hand a total of zero times. They argue and call each other names on occasion, but there's nothing wrong with conflict; it's just words. It's better than encouraging an endless string of overly dry emotionless debates between Spock and Sam Harris on sedatives, or 24/7 of nicey nicey.
Like i said have no knowledge to the things said in that thread because they don't interest me: I am just stating to just wait it out till a staff response is given.

But people are banned on a regular basis; they're banned far too often for insignificant "mistakes". Just let them discuss and banter, get heated, joke around and hopefully get weird and interesting now and then. "Flat tyre" is a good name for what heavy handed moderation promotes. Flat forums.
Again, this is assuming things when there is no statement yet. This is tuning the mood more than anything else.

Also let us not forget I had basically the same opinion and did not even get a warning.
You literally said that 2 hours prior. This thread really does not move that fast that people suddenly become fish and forget within that time frame :)
 
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Due to two things:
  • The fact that you threaten to leave this forum if the ban turns out to be a perm (Which you don't know yet, but you already make this statement in advance)
  • The fact that among that statement you also say: ''but if banning good users for posting ideas that they don't like is their vision for their site, then I'm not interested.'' - Again, there is no statement given yet but you already say these things in advance.
It's not a threat; I'm making my intention known in support of Keene. I'm not in a position to threaten the forum even if I wanted to, which I don't. I realise that you're inferring an ultimatum, but it's not as though I'm delusional and thinking that I could pull some power move to get him unbanned. It's support, and stating intention. Nothing else.
Like i said have no knowledge to the things said in that thread because they don't interest me: I am just stating to just wait it out till a staff response is given.
I wasn't talking about that thread. That was my opinion on the forum in general.
Again, this is assuming things when there is no statement yet. This is tuning the mood more than anything else.
Same story here. General comment.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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It's not a threat; I'm making my intention known in support of Keene. I'm not in a position to threaten the forum even if I wanted to, which I don't.
Right, its good to know that you voice it that way, but the way i read ''If his ban is permanent I'll join him in not posting here.'' reads like a threat. Even if it isnt, assuming good faith, its still a pre-mature statement to make regardless.

I wasn't talking about that thread. That was my opinion on the forum in general.

Same story here. General comment.
That's still tuning the mood imo. Its like saying: ''Beating up suspects is never a good thing!'' when all you saw was a suspect in a police car. You don't know what occurred inbetween nor did you see if the suspect was bruised, so the former statement in this example is tuning the mood.
 
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That's still tuning the mood imo. Its like saying: ''Beating up suspects is never a good thing!'' when all you saw was a suspect in a police car. You don't know what occurred inbetween nor did you see if the suspect was bruised, so the former statement in this example is tuning the mood.
I think I know what you're getting at, but I'm not saying that banning users is never a good thing. If people were banned for posts that could get the site into legal trouble, or if people were flooding, or if people were sharing other users' personal information etc, I wouldn't comment. I'm saying that the banning trend here (frequency of bans, reasons for bans) is a bad one. And like I said before, this is my personal taste; I don't expect it to be catered to.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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I think I know what you're getting at, but I'm not saying that banning users is never a good thing. If people were banned for posts that could get the site into legal trouble, or if people were flooding, or if people were sharing other users' personal information etc, I wouldn't comment. I'm saying that the banning trend here (frequency of bans, reasons for bans) is a bad one. And like I said before, this is my personal taste; I don't expect it to be catered to.
You are taking the example too literally.

But yes, i agree that bans need to take place. As for the trend, the whole thing with reasons is that its not easily spotted yet and its a thing they are working on. As for the frequency, i do notice it happens more often but i am not going to tally how often it is. I tagged two staff members already, feel free to invite Evilore over if you haven't done so already :)
 
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I'm cross posting this here because it's not being addressed.

If what Beard said here:
Racism is not acceptable, especially on this forum. It's not OK to spew hate here and people found doing so will be making a permanent exit. No race is exempt from this rule.
Is true, he and the rest of the mod team need to address the issues below.

I think it is a great thing that NYT has given her a chance and their support. Sure it seems a bit crass but left needs that kind of edge right now. Pretending to be centerists clearly doesnt work. New rules baby.
This poster has been consistently promoting racism in the same thread Beard posted in and has not received any sort of warning or ban.


How are you going to apply that here: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sout...titution-to-allow-land-expropriation.1464288/

There is some pretty clear cut support for racism and racist political policies in this thread.
Furthermore, the actual OP of the linked thread immediately indicates support for racist policies and tries to justify and reaffirm their racism throughout the thread.
 
Likes: ar0s
Aug 18, 2016
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To claim that a diversity hire, or that reparations are racist is an exposition of you rather than them.

Bolivar687 made a post in that NYT thread where the NYT defended their hire already. This is the opposite of the "outrage culture" many of yall dislike, which got Rosanne and Gunn fired.

But now, you are in favor of outrage?

K.
 
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Skyr

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@mneuro said that people who hurt children should result in the most severe penalties.

Kevin replied that "Hurting a child is no worse than hurting anyone," and yall are really up in here still wondering why he was banned?

SMH.
I like Kevin as a poster here but this is such a fucked up statement to make that actually makes me angry.
But that‘s not the discussion here.

Is it ban worthy? Prolly not but I can see how someone (especially) who has children himself could get very upset about it.
 
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To claim that a diversity hire, or that reparations are racist is an exposition of you rather than them.

Bolivar687 made a post in that NYT thread where the NYT defended their hire already. This is the opposite of the "outrage culture" many of yall dislike, which got Rosanne and Gunn fired.

But now, you are in favor of outrage?

K.
No one cares what race she is or whether it's a diversity hire. We care that she is clearly a racist that despises white people and that the media is doubling down to protect her.

Additionally, any policy that singles out a race or minority is inherently racist and support for that obviously racism. Not rocket science. I get that you're trying to deflect from this madness but it's not gonna work.

E: Forthefuture has been banned so you can ignore part of my gripe I suppose.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
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@mneuro said that people who hurt children should result in the most severe penalties.

Kevin replied that "Hurting a child is no worse than hurting anyone," and yall are really up in here still wondering why he was banned?

SMH.
Isn't this what you do whenever one of the people you 'support' is banned? In-fact, you recently made multiple posts whining about them getting banned only a few days ago...

I like Kevin as a poster here but this is such a fucked up statement to make that actually makes me angry.
But that‘s not the discussion here.

Is it ban worthy? Prolly not but I can see how someone (especially) who has children himself could get very upset about it.
Kevin also has been banned multiple times by this point. He may have just hit the limit that that the mods had set.
 
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Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
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The moderation team felt it was necessary to provide a response to the recent banning of @KevinKeene. This is given freely and in the spirit of transparency. Obviously, we won't be doing this for every banning but felt this was a special case due to the response. We must first clarify that this wasn’t a decision made in the heat of the moment, nor by one outlying member of staff. It was also a difficult decision to make as we acknowledge the contributions Kevin made to the forum, but also weighed up the times he flew too close to the sun. Ultimately, after each staff member had given their input throughout the day in the moderation slack channel, the decision was unanimous and we felt action was necessary albeit unfortunate.


Certain topics will be contentious in their content and we appreciate posters will play devil’s advocate, or be contrary to open up debate. However, certain topics should not draw people in on a personal level. Distanced arguments framed in context, although difficult to read at times were untouched (There are a few examples in the thread itself). However, some of the responses from Kevin became a little too personal and emotive. And when you engage in a topic like this, with what could be construed as personal emotional investment, then it becomes very difficult to separate agenda and motivation from good faith arguments. It is also an expectation to enter debates like this with a fair bit of nuance, tact and with an empathetic attitude towards the adults/children who are/have/will be affected by life changing events/experiences.