NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project (Off-Topic Edition)

Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
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@Bill O'Rights Terminology like actioned which is reminiscent of ERA's Newspeak is going to attract attention. In fact, that's why i am making this mention, because it does.

And also because we aren't like that, obviously.
You're quite correct of course. I therefore ask, nay, demand a digital tome of acceptable alternatives to newspeak and where possible a humourous translation guide.
 
Likes: ar0s
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I mean, its fairly obvious that you represent a different POV towards Evilore's recent actions, right? Its not hard to see that passer-by comment as a potshot, even when it is not.


I sense ulterior motives based on prior posts.


If you are actually going to keep it real, write a proper thread with your views. Invite discussion instead of spreading it out over multiple posts. :)

I am ambivalent about this project. I don't have anything to day about it that warrants its own thread.
 

All Hail C-Webb

Hailing from the Chill-Web
Jun 6, 2004
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Thanks for your support! But it's okay, I still contribute as best as I can, junior or not.



Respect +1



Yeah got to give props to Tyler. He doesn't hold personal grudges even though you have personal insulted him many times in the Waypoint thread last October. It takes a lot of maturity and tolerance for him to forget and forgive, and go out of his way to overturn the mod and unban you. Much respect to him.

And as you said, I will do my part and try to bring more progressive folks over here from the other forum. Let's all do our best for the good of this community!
Whoa, good memory.
My intention with those posts wasn't to insult him. I thought it was a huge improvement on some of the other crap being said.
I did get banned during that event, reached out about it, and it was overturned.
So that's twice that this review process worked for me.
Now I've got to work on making sure I avoid these predicaments in the first place. :)
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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This is impossible, the history of prior infractions is its very own research field, do you want thousands of scientists to lose their jobs?

I think the correct way of saying "if you continue, this will be actioned" is "silence, I kill you".
Yes, having the ban reason one being said by a puppet terrorist is what we should go for. :)

I am ambivalent about this project. I don't have anything to day about it that warrants its own thread.
Sure you do, just read back your own posts. Don't act coy because now all this post does is returning back to the implication that your prior post was indeed a potshot. :)
 

cr0w

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Do not harass other members of this forum, especially based on offsite discussions, after you have previously been warned for this very thing.
I wasn't taking a popshot. It was a unbiased observation. GAF needs traffic to thrive. An efficient way to give it an adrenaline injection is to unban users who are likely to be disaffected due to their bans from GAF's previous era.

A Business. Decision.

Don't confuse petty with keeping it real!
Yes, continue keeping it real, oh Destroyer of Basements.
 
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Yes, having the ban reason one being said by a puppet terrorist is what we should go for. :)


Sure you do, just read back your own posts. Don't act coy because now all this post does is returning back to the implication that your prior post was indeed a potshot. :)
By observing that someone participates in a thread frequently, you have determined that their combined participation warrants a unique thread.

If that is the case, you'd be better off spending time in the Sarah Jeong thread.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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By observing that someone participates in a thread frequently, you have determined that their combined participation warrants a unique thread.

If that is the case, you'd be better off spending time in the Sarah Jeong thread.
What i am saying is that clearly your views warrant a seperate thread if one may so wish. That's all.

I dont know who Sarah Jeong is.
You've tekken this too far.
Tekkenically, you aren't wrong.

Ill see myself out.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Thank you. I should put it on the record that i have no interest in that person. Reading the thread, she screams about white people.
Contrary to the US, the focus on white vs black people is far less prevalent (or important) in The Netherlands. Its a thing that has always annoyed me, colour of skin is literally the last thing i would point out in any argument ever, that's how little effect it has for me.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Since ive gotten some requests on people who want to reappeal their ERA ban, i should point to the following.
Since the feedback thread was made hidden, the original post was here: https://archive.fo/7JCrY, reply 109.

As said by Rowlf:
If you've received a ban that you think is unfair or unjustified, you may reach us at contact@resetera.com to plead your case.
I have posted this in the Off-Site Discussion and the Ban Transparency pages also so multiple people who dont frequent other threads may see this aswell.
 
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Since ive gotten some requests on people who want to reappeal their ERA ban, i should point to the following.
Since the feedback thread was made hidden, the original post was here: https://archive.fo/7JCrY, reply 109.

As said by Rowlf:

I have posted this in the Off-Site Discussion and the Ban Transparency pages also so multiple people who dont frequent other threads may see this aswell.

Followed link, found this;

"The "Era's Women Problem" thread was pretty depressing. What are your plans to make ResetEra a more welcoming community for people who aren't straight white dudes?"

lol'd. The place is the complete opposite of what this poster is suggesting.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Followed link, found this;

"The "Era's Women Problem" thread was pretty depressing. What are your plans to make ResetEra a more welcoming community for people who aren't straight white dudes?"

lol'd. The place is the complete opposite of what this poster is suggesting.
The answer to that question was ''We are open to suggestions''. Aka they don't have any plan whatsoever, as their efforts are more focused on creating a safe space for the fragile minority rather than actually helping said minority out by promoting healthy discussion and forfeiting shunning people with dissenting opinions. Their idea is that if your opinion is different then theirs, it is not worth addressing, thus justifying a ban.

Only in an online safe space you would arrive at such ludicrous solutions. Try doing that in real life. Oh wait..
 
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I wish i had time to read whole thread but i sit in work currently and skimmed over it page after page so forgive me if i repeat something which was already stated or mis-judge something.

@EviLore great posting and frankly speaking it was needed. My only problem with what you said is that it was not contained to 2016/17 or just offtopic. This "culture" started around 2014-2015 in offtopic and seeped off to gaming part and by the end of old gaf basically anything in gaming was treated almost the same as offtopic with full amount of "virtue" for even dumb thinks like "i like boobs" unfortunately i don't remember poster to point out him for unban. Naturally i also blame you as they say "fish rots from head" but don't put people into box to rot there and i see you actually did proper mea-culpa and i like that and i think NeoGaf will have really a chance to shine soon. My only issues and imo Neogaf loss is departure of some of the more reasonable people. While right win spin of forum is obvious outcome of departure of "screaming" contingency leaving those who usually feared to even peep in off-topic i think moderation could do something more about it. Like for example i get that Trump is hot topic but i don't see reason why mods can't do one trump mehathread for time being. It would revive a bit offtopic for other subjects than just trump half a page.

If i can contribute to this thread and point out weird bans i think this is perfect thread:

People of color in Kingdom Come: Deliverance - A discussion (Read the OP)

Obviously i have vested interest in this since i was one of people banned in that thread but this thread basically broke my opinion on GAF as place to talk about games. The whole Kingdom Come Deliverance threads were full of bans like this just because developers didn't want to make any fantasy but historical game. Vavra treatment later on is also another shameful aspect of old gaf which started with treats such as this with mods fishing just to confirm Vavra is some kind of racist so they can just ban people with a wave of finger no question asked.

And Kingdom Come isn't any outlier. HuniePop, Hatred ban based on one of devs liking anti-immigration group post of FB.. i mean list go on. Honestly speaking i was pretty shocked that most of japanese games were untouched but my explenation for that was that most of mods were weebos so they couldn't ban a lot of Japanese "problematic" games.

Putting aside subject above...
I think the biggest failure of Neogaf at the time was exactly when GamerGate happened. It was the only place that could make thing go away and turn whole "problem" into nothing and people would continue like they used to, but thanks to culture at the time Neogaf after few days completely banned all talk about it and joined "dark web" and people retreated to their own bubbles completely polarizing gaming community. Though i don't blame anyone for doing what everyone else did. It was hot potato. But at the same time i think this precisely points out why you need place to freely talk about subjects, while obviously people should be banned for outright racism, attacking people etc. people should not be banned just by talking about subjects because only think it will achieve is that people will talk on other bubbles and those bubbles can lack actual opposition to your view forcing you to re-evaluate your opinions.
 
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Likes: Soleil rouge
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Thanks for unbanning me.

I must say, at the time I was banned, I was quite infuriated, and there was that there was nothing I could do about it. The worst part of it all was the thought of others who were also unjustifiably banned out there. It made me aware that places like NeoGaf can easily become an echo chamber dictated by those moderators who are trigger happy at the most mundane comments which conflict with their own views.

Regardless, I appreciate that you've gone back and made things right.
 

SatansReverence

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@Phoenix RISINGAug 12, 2018PermanentYou don�t want to be here. Please enjoy other communities.
While I rarely agree with this poster I don't think users should be banned outside of actually breaching the rules in some way and having had a record of bannings.

From the outside it just looks like being banned for not capitulating to the "groupthink".
 
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While I rarely agree with this poster I don't think users should be banned outside of actually breaching the rules in some way and having had a record of bannings.

From the outside it just looks like being banned for not capitulating to the "groupthink".
Whilst I understand what you are saying, from what I have seen and in my opinion, Phoenix Rising has done nothing but shit post since GAF’s rebirth. He/she offered nothing else. Didn’t contribute to any thread that wasn’t politically motivated that I noticed and would just continually post negatively about GAF ad infinitum. When questioned as to their motivations their answer was basically “I’m here to annoy people I don’t agree with” (not verbatim, but that was the gist).

I honestly am shocked it took this long for them to catch a perm.
 
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SatansReverence

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Whilst I understand what you are saying, from what I have seen and in my opinion, Phoenix Rising has done nothing but shit post since GAF’s rebirth. He/she offered nothing else. Didn’t contribute to any thread that wasn’t politically motivated that I noticed and would just continually post negatively about GAF ad infinitum. When questioned as to their motivations their answer was basically “I’m here to annoy people I don’t agree with” (not verbatim, but that was the gist).

I honestly am shocked it took this long for them to catch a perm.
Compared to other users however his/her posts were largely of at least a minimum level of quality.
 
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Yeah I think there’s only so long someone can simply complain about an online community while doing little to nothing to help change it without getting shown the door. I’ve not been back long, and have expressed a fair amount of concerns about the site, but I’ve been trying to do my part to help a little by posting more in gaming threads and trying to stay out of political threads to not bump them, made my first ever game OT thread (Dead Cells) etc.

If you don’t like a community’s trajectory, by all means speak up (like I have in the political subforum poll thread, the returning members rate the current status of the community thread etc.). But also put your money where your mouth is by posting more in the types of topics you want to see and starting your own threads. If you’re not willing to do that, you should probably just leave and find a place you’re happier with as the complaining just gets trollish at that point.
 
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Was Phoenix RISING really the guy who trashed his basement/living room over a video game and had his family living in fear over his tantrums?

I couldn't tell whether that was just a joke or not, but if true, then I'm glad that pathetic lunatic isn't around anymore.
I just Googled it and yeah, it seems it was him. I found his post about it on ResetEra, where he's also banned too it seems.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
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Good riddance, IMO. They rarely if ever contributed to actual discussions or debates honestly, instead continued to push poor hot-takes, shit on the community, and continued to derail threads. If they actually wanted to *contribute* with differing views without relying on personal attacks/ad hominem, I would have loved to see them stay - but that wasn't what they wanted to do.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Was Phoenix RISING really the guy who trashed his basement/living room over a video game and had his family living in fear over his tantrums?

I couldn't tell whether that was just a joke or not, but if true, then I'm glad that pathetic lunatic isn't around anymore.
He was.
Also, lets not kick Phoenix when he is down for the count and unable to respond. There was every opportunity to do so when he was still here, doing the namecalling and insults now when he isn't able to reply is a little childish imo.

However, crossposting from a different thread in regards to Phoenix:
I went ahead and looked at your latest thread. What i saw:
  • You only interacted once in that thread. You didnt address the criticisms raised.
  • The only other action you did was to like a post that simply said that they agreed with your OP.
  • So what happens with your threads is that you post a very lengthy opinion and then just leave it as is, which is quite damning when its a view that can recieve proper criticism.
  • The point with your posts is that they always encapsulate a limited set of topics that only you take special interest in. I am aware of the issues you are raising, but my point is, its always the same issue, just written differently each and every time. This eventually grows stale over time, as this suggests that you want to discuss the same point over and over again, and doing so without accepting a truce and a departure from such a subject and into a new one. This eventually wears people down and they become less interested to listen to your view, no matter how right (or wrong) that view is.
  • So all i can add to that is: Broaden your horizon a little bit :) Take that as you will.
Emphasis mine.
I am all across the forum doing different things from time to time - One day ill be posting a DF thread, the other day ill help someone out. I don't really feel compelled to talk about race and color all the time - It becomes boring to me after a while.

Good riddance, IMO. They rarely if ever contributed to actual discussions or debates honestly, instead continued to push poor hot-takes, shit on the community, and continued to derail threads. If they actually wanted to *contribute* with differing views without relying on personal attacks/ad hominem, I would have loved to see them stay - but that wasn't what they wanted to do.
I do want to guard the idea that this place needs dissenting opinions - If everyone is on the same page on all kinds of things then this place never grows, but just remains stuck in second gear (Finally had a good use for this reference.)

People need to be allowed to be Pro-Trump, even if i am not. People need to be allowed to be Pro-Guns, even though that's alien to me. People need to be allowed to have different views about abortion, about transgender people, about cop violence, because only when we differ in opinion, then we can learn from one another and find new and exciting ideas to pursue.

Without that, we would just be like The Names and the Little Helpers on ERA: Unified in thought, but divided in knowledge.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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He was.
Also, lets not kick Phoenix when he is down for the count and unable to respond. There was every opportunity to do so when he was still here, doing the namecalling and insults now when he isn't able to reply is a little childish imo.

However, crossposting from a different thread in regards to Phoenix:

Emphasis mine.
I am all across the forum doing different things from time to time - One day ill be posting a DF thread, the other day ill help someone out. I don't really feel compelled to talk about race and color all the time - It becomes boring to me after a while.


I do want to guard the idea that this place needs dissenting opinions - If everyone is on the same page on all kinds of things then this place never grows, but just remains stuck in second gear (Finally had a good use for this reference.)

People need to be allowed to be Pro-Trump, even if i am not. People need to be allowed to be Pro-Guns, even though that's alien to me. People need to be allowed to have different views about abortion, about transgender people, about cop violence, because only when we differ in opinion, then we can learn from one another and find new and exciting ideas to pursue.

Without that, we would just be like The Names and the Little Helpers on ERA: Unified in thought, but divided in knowledge.
Agreed! Which is why in my second sentence I stated that I wished they wouldn't have to rely on ad-hominem/personal attacks. I see this a lot with both sides (though increasingly from the far-left groups).
 
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Also, lets not kick Phoenix when he is down for the count and unable to respond. There was every opportunity to do so when he was still here, doing the namecalling and insults now when he isn't able to reply is a little childish imo.
If only I was as mature as the man whose family lives in constant fear of him going all Chris Benoit on them after losing at Street Fighter.

But seriously, No. MF provided nothing of value and is a genuine POS on top of that. He's gone and we're reveling from his ban. There are plenty of good posters who provide dissenting opinions.
 
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I do want to guard the idea that this place needs dissenting opinions - If everyone is on the same page on all kinds of things then this place never grows, but just remains stuck in second gear (Finally had a good use for this reference.)
Phoenix RISING was not banned because of his opinions, he was banned because he was a consistently immature, annoying douche who wasn’t here to enjoy a community, but here to cause trouble.

I’m all for letting people speak, but I draw the line at letting an obvious troll have their way with no repercussions.

He was warned by Evilore himself. He was still given chances despite his posting style and yet he didn’t stop.

I think you should save your violin for someone that deserves it.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Agreed! Which is why in my second sentence I stated that I wished they wouldn't have to rely on ad-hominem/personal attacks. I see this a lot with both sides (though increasingly from the far-left groups).
Agreed, especially when its done in hindsight and it is defended upon like the two posts below.

Not going to deny that Rising was very much a one trick pony and only had a limited set of topics he wanted to argue on, but this whole berating after the fact is rather petty.
If only I was as mature as the man whose family lives in constant fear of him going all Chris Benoit on them after losing at Street Fighter.
Ah yes, those pictures.

But seriously, No. MF provided nothing of value and is a genuine POS on top of that. He's gone and we're reveling from his ban. There are plenty of good posters who provide dissenting opinions.
Yeah i am just not that kind of guy to throw insults after the fact or be delighted in that way. If i wanted to criticize him i would have done so. Fortunately, these posters eventually will evict themselves as they seemingly arent aware of their passive-aggressive tone in their posts.

Phoenix RISING was not banned because of his opinions, he was banned because he was a consistently immature, annoying douche who wasn’t here to enjoy a community, but here to cause trouble.

I’m all for letting people speak, but I draw the line at letting an obvious troll have their way with no repercussions.

He was warned by Evilore himself. He was still given chances despite his posting style and yet he didn’t stop.
I agree on the first, have no opinion on the second (Like i said i don't frequent his threads as being a one trick pony bores me enough not to engage) and same goes for the third. Its not my problem if such a user does not learn from his own behavior in historic sense.

I think you should save your violin for someone that deserves it.
Just because i am against throwing insults in hindsight when such a user is not in the position to respond does not mean i have to play a sad violin. It only means that only when one is gone people suddenly go saying the things they should have said when he was around.
 
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Just because i am against throwing insults in hindsight when such a user is not in the position to respond does not mean i have to play a sad violin. It only means that only when one is gone people suddenly go saying the things they should have said when he was around.
I said it when he was around and directly to Phoenix Rising.

You seem to be trying to spin this into a neat little story in which it is not.

He was rude, immature and a troll with his postings. Many think so, if you’ve been reading the thread. I’m not sure why you are going so hard into bat for this person. It’s strange.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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I said it when he was around and directly to Phoenix Rising.
Alright.

You seem to be trying to spin this into a neat little story in which it is not.
Yeah, no.

He was rude, immature and a troll with his postings. Many think so, if you’ve been reading the thread.
And i agree. I just dont use those phrasings. Does not mean i disagree with it either and its strange you think otherwise.

I’m not sure why you are going so hard into bat for this person. It’s strange.
Because i am no fan of hurling insults and good riddances after the fact.
 
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Agreed, especially when its done in hindsight and it is defended upon like the two posts below.

Not going to deny that Rising was very much a one trick pony and only had a limited set of topics he wanted to argue on, but this whole berating after the fact is rather petty.
Well, he did state at one stage that he considered the people he discussed with his enemies. If that is your starting point, that they are your enemies, there is not much hope to have any meaningful discussion or meeting of the minds happening.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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So you keep repeating. Good for you buddy. Good for you.

I sure ain’t gonna miss him.
Perhaps read the full post, then you would know i am in an agreement with you. No need to patronize me.
As for the later: I agree (In case that was not obvious already)

Well, he did state at one stage that he considered the people he discussed with his enemies. If that is your starting point, that they are your enemies, there is not much hope to have any meaningful discussion or meeting of the minds happening.
Yeah, i remember that post. Its why i chose to word my talk on him as having a limited set of topics only he took special interest in. And repeating that ad nauseam will grow people stale after a while.

For me the writing was on the wall when i suggested that he should write a seperate thread of his views instead of spreading it out over seperate posts and his answer was basically ''I rather not.'' That to me confirmed he was not on this board for a proper discourse.
 
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Since ive gotten some requests on people who want to reappeal their ERA ban, i should point to the following.
Since the feedback thread was made hidden, the original post was here: https://archive.fo/7JCrY, reply 109.

As said by Rowlf:

I have posted this in the Off-Site Discussion and the Ban Transparency pages also so multiple people who dont frequent other threads may see this aswell.
I will not return there. Site and member moods reached a dangerously unstable state and baits are too many, despite the noble intentions of many members. If I am to be anxious with every post I type, I'd better not post at all.
 
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Phoenix RISING was not banned because of his opinions, he was banned because he was a consistently immature, annoying douche who wasn’t here to enjoy a community, but here to cause trouble.

I’m all for letting people speak, but I draw the line at letting an obvious troll have their way with no repercussions.

He was warned by Evilore himself. He was still given chances despite his posting style and yet he didn’t stop.

I think you should save your violin for someone that deserves it.
I really don't want people banned for general political differences, but I don't think for a second that he was. He seemed to loathe this place to me. Several times I wondered if he was here just to show he was worthy of being unbanned somewhere else.
 
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I'm pretty sure they know that. I think the point is that you aren't supposed to make comments regarding Era outside of the community thread. And you have to admit he has done it a fair few times now. At least it's not a very long ban though.
Doesn't matter. They only banned him for a week to get him to cool it with commentary on the other site outside of the designated thread. No voice is being silenced.
Ah okay, thanks for the heads up.
 
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What is the flexibility of bans here, out of curiosity?

Could the mod-team implement a flexible "minimum timeout between posts" ban? I believe it's already 60s as default. Maybe crank it up (temporarily) for offenders to 30m between posts, or 2 hours if the person in question isn't so much being "offensive" as they're being "aggressive and uninterested in conversation" like some users have been. That way they'll have plenty of time to think through how they proceed with each post instead of being sent to time-out for a week. Leave that on for 24 hours (or longer for repeat offenders) and it'll sort itself out.

All that being said, it's frustrating to give posts (that are nothing more than drive-bys and mischaracterizations) the time of day because I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm all for a dissenting opinion and a "marketplace of ideas", but at a certain point it becomes clear who is participating and who is in the corner with a dagger, stepping in with jabs while contributing nothing.
 
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Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
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@DunDunDunpachi We'll be releasing a full moderation handbook shortly to coincide with a forum restructure. The bulk is already written and sitting in the mod forums being adjusted and having amendments tabled by other mods. We have a good feeling of where GAF is now and have taken the data we have and extrapolated that into a moderation workflow. As a result we may move the forum structure ahead of the design.


On of the problems when formalising is the underlying foundation needs to be there. You can't drive people into a workflow when the supports don't work. So we've been hard at work putting these pieces together that *should* make the forum experience more cohesive and enjoyable. As a result there will be varying levels of tolerance depending on what and where things are posted.


Unfortunately XF only allows ban by day. However, we hope to be able to implement some finer controls like forum bans in which we can manually lift them after say an hour or so. Watch this space, not long now!