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NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project (Off-Topic Edition)

Tesseract

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Dec 7, 2008
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I mean, if Antifa were on fire I’d be hesitant to piss on them. That goes for any terror group. Outright calling to kill them is too much though, so I agree.
it doesn't go for any terror group tho right, can we safely say kill all isis members, because i'm pretty sure they'd gladly behead you

either way ideologies like these are poison pills that give evil its justification
 

Yoshi

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So why was Nobody_Important banned exactly? How was he supposed to interact in that thread after Evilore's posting and not get banned, if the "go away" was supposed to be a moderation directive? If you feel someone should not be in a thread, isn't the actual moderation behaviour giving a thread ban? Even disregarding the fact that I cannot see how NI misbehaved in the thread up to that point to begin with, I do not think it is clear at all that this dismissive statement was supposed to be a moderation directive. In contrast to most moderators, Evilore is not only posting only as a moderator, so if something is supposed to be a moderation directive, it really needs to be more clear than just be written in imperative.
 
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Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah that ban seems totally unwarranted unless there were PMs or something. Even more so if EviLore issued it as staff/mods shouldn’t be allowed to moderate threads they start or are actively engaging in as the risk for bias is too high.
 

Yoshi

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Yeah that ban seems totally unwarranted unless there were PMs or something. Even more so if EviLore issued it as staff/mods shouldn’t be allowed to moderate threads they start or are actively engaging in as the risk for bias is too high.
Nobody has assured me that there was no further communication (e.g. via PM) on that matter between him and Evilore.
 

Yoshi

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You're on my website, fyi.
To my understanding he was just stating his opinion on sensible moderation policy and of course even if you are a site owner you can act according to some rules you set yourself. Not moderating on issues you are directly involved in is, I think, indeed a sensible practice, especially for a professional / profit-oriented community.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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May 30, 2004
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To my understanding he was just stating his opinion on sensible moderation policy and of course even if you are a site owner you can act according to some rules you set yourself. Not moderating on issues you are directly involved in is, I think, indeed a sensible practice, especially for a professional / profit-oriented community.
I'm directly involved in everything.
 

EviLore

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Ni received a formal warning in another thread today, prior to the ban, which he summarily ignored. He's been grandstanding disruptively and derailing threads. He was given another moderation directive, and ignored it as well. I have no interest in further disruptions.

You may have the wrong idea because we're typically polite and understanding. There are still rules, and you ignore moderation directives at your own peril.
 
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Deleted member 752119

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You're on my website, fyi.
Of course. And you can run it however you want and we can take it or leave it. This just seems counter to the transparent and unbiased moderation you’ve touted and done a great job with as GAF has come back to life after the exodus. But again, it’s your site and your rules/practices. I don’t like this one so I commented and will leave it at that.
 

EviLore

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Since NI is unaware of any PM, @ or quote by you or other staff today, can you say what you are referring to here?
 

nush

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Ni received a formal warning in another thread today, prior to the ban, which he summarily ignored. He's been grandstanding disruptively and derailing threads. He was given another moderation directive, and ignored it as well. I have no interest in further disruptions.

You may have the wrong idea because we're typically polite and understanding. There are still rules, and you ignore moderation directives at your own peril.
This makes more sense, typically I'd assume a mod message was specifically just for that topic but if it's relating to a pattern of behaviour over multiple topics then that's fair enough. It wasn't a ban in isolation to that topic as it initially appears to some.
 
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BraveOne

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Feb 2, 2017
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" No one cares how amused or embarrassed you are. Address people with civility and respect or leave."

How does that translate into the ban he received for engaging in your thread? From what I can see he was openly talking to other gaffers in a respectable manner, most the activity in that thread for a certain point was because he was replying back to people actually.

Don't want to throw any names out there but how many times has Matt called NI a Cunt or Solomeena calling him a Cancer? Wheres the mod action on civility there.
 

EviLore

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How does that translate into the ban he received for engaging in your thread?
Repeatedly ignoring moderation directives.

most the activity in that thread for a certain point was because he was replying back to people actually.
Context gets taken into account, of course, but you're still responsible for your actions even if you think others are provoking you.

Discussions on NeoGAF are group participation, not NI vs The World. Users need to exercise restraint in their volume of activity in a thread, especially when they're being inflammatory, or it'll inevitably get derailed around the inflammatory user. We take action in either direction (the provocateur or the dogpile) as necessary to keep discussions on-track and functional.

Don't want to throw any names out there but how many times has Matt called NI a Cunt or Solomeena calling him a Cancer? Wheres the mod action on civility there.
Matt has been banned for calling another user a cunt before.
 
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AV

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Don't want to throw any names out there but how many times has Matt called NI a Cunt or Solomeena calling him a Cancer? Wheres the mod action on civility there.
"I don't want to throw any names out there but here's 2 names"

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out when Matt's joking around, he already caught a ban for insulting someone with clear intent.
 
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Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Discussions on NeoGAF are group participation, not NI vs The World. Users need to exercise restraint in their volume of activity in a thread, especially when they're being inflammatory, or it'll inevitably get derailed around the inflammatory user. We take action in either direction (the provocateur or the dogpile) as necessary to keep discussions on-track and functional.
I definitely agree with it not being ok to be inflammatory. Things can be a little hostile around here at times (and probably most of the time in politics, I don't view that subforum).

The volume of activity point is a trickier one to me though. From the political/social issue stuff in gaming and off topic (again, can't speak to the politics sub) it does seem that the most active/vocal posters on those topics tend to lean right with some of the particular vocal folks being pretty far right. I know the political compass thread from a while back showed more balance, but a lot of people like me avoid political topics like the plague. It's more people on the extremes that post frequently in political topics and that's naturally going to skew right here since those folks get banned on places like Era and leftists stupidly think GAF is some alt right Nazi haven and and stay away. Thus here's often only a few people on the left debating/arguing with a larger number of members on the other side so the volume of posters is going to be skewed if debates are going to happen and not just have echo chamber threads.

Again, no excuse for hostility or being inflammatory and skimming through that thread you linked I can see why NI caught a temp ban for it. I'd just be wary about worrying about volume of posts as long as someone is being respectful and on topic for the thread or else risk this turning into a right leaning echo chamber rather than the place with solid, open debates that it's mostly been the past year or so. If they're pulling threads off topic and/or being inflamatory or hostile, they should 100% catch a suspension and permaban for repeat incidents. If they're just posting a lot as they're taking the time and effort to respond to people attacking their opinions, that's good debate and should be allowed IMO. Though as above, it's your site so you do you. :messenger_grinning:
 
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EviLore

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I'd just be wary about worrying about volume of posts as long as someone is being respectful and on topic for the thread or else risk this turning into a right leaning echo chamber rather than the place with solid, open debates that it's mostly been the past year or so. If they're pulling threads off topic and/or being inflamatory or hostile, they should 100% catch a suspension and permaban for repeat incidents. If they're just posting a lot as they're taking the time and effort to respond to people attacking their opinions, that's good debate and should be allowed IMO. Though as above, it's your site so you do you. :messenger_grinning:
Absolutely. If someone's being constructive and civil, they're given much more leeway. If someone's on a grandstanding ego trip, less so.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Feb 9, 2009
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Yeah I didn't think NI's ban seemed warranted on initial view. Invoking Godwins law and then getting into an argument about it was possibly one of the only faux pas they exercised in the thread.
 

NickFire

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To my understanding he was just stating his opinion on sensible moderation policy and of course even if you are a site owner you can act according to some rules you set yourself. Not moderating on issues you are directly involved in is, I think, indeed a sensible practice, especially for a professional / profit-oriented community.
Its ok if he sets rules for himself, but staying out of moderation on topics he finds interesting is not a good rule. The last time he was hands off it did not go well.
 
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Deleted member 752119

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Its ok if he sets rules for himself, but staying out of moderation on topics he finds interesting is not a good rule. The last time he was hands off it did not go well.
While true, that was due to shitty mods and the current mod team seems fantastic. Part of the problem in the day was mods banning people who disagreed with them. That didn’t happen in this case of course, but I think it’s alway a good idea for mods/staff to contact another mod to look at posts/posters if there’s issues in a thread they’ve started or a debate they’ve been engaging in.

It’s not that I think current staff or mods would be biased, it’s just good for the sake of transparency and appearing fair and helping build back the community after biased, rogue mods were destroying the place back around 2014-2017 (and has continued on Era). But again, not my site and I’ve been impressed with the fairness of moderation here so it’s not a big deal and more just an image thing.
 
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Solomeena

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Don't want to throw any names out there but how many times has Matt called NI a Cunt or Solomeena calling him a Cancer? Wheres the mod action on civility there.
You can fuck right off with this shit. You, @AfricanKing , Nobody_Important and a couple others coordinate your bullshit narrative on this forum because you just have to push that evil white man ideology and sexist males crap. NI has brought this on himself, not gonna feel sorry for his ass. Don't use me as your scape goat. And just to stoke the fire a bit, yeah you SJW's are a cancer, you are sowing the seeds of anger and racism and violence because you want to watch this world burn.
 
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Solomeena

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Are you fucking kidding me? He is banned, so how is he speaking for himself?
No shit he is banned, i didn't think we needed to go over that don't be a dunce honestly. You are his mouthpiece even when he isn't banned and you know this and you know this is why i asked you the question. Stop trying to make yourself look bad. Again, why do you feel the need to be NI's mouthpiece all the time? And by the way, he can still get a hold of moderation when banned, fyi.
 

AfricanKing

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You have no respect for people who are not SJW's to put it politely, so stop being a hypocrite and trying to just obfuscate things and try to make yourself look mature for once.

You spend way too much time online and clearly dont know the diffeence between opposing opinions. If I had the time I would post every reply you've sent me so you can see the vast difference in how you and i approach situations.

:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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near

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I remember a time when the ban hammer was savage in terms of quantity and in pretty much most cases there was no need to question it. A huge part of me misses that and a part of me doesn't. Post collapse of the moderation team it seems like people want an explanation for almost every ban that occurs here now, while I think it's pretty cool that EviLore supplements users with reasoning for the bans, I think it's straight-up weird and I still can't get used to it. I think the way things are set up now is transparent enough, having to constantly discuss why someone is banned shows a lack of faith in the direction we're going. To be honest I don't think we're even owed explanations at this point given the restructuring of the mod team and how things are generally run here now.
 
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Solomeena

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You spend way too much time online and clearly dont know the diffeence between opposing opinions. If I had the time I would post every reply you've sent me so you can see the vast difference in how you and i approach situations.

:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
Oh yes, i totally spend to much time online. I can go weeks between my posts on GAF sometimes. And it won't take much for me to find your posts...Just type in white. Also, all you do is spam the TRIGGERED emote because you have nothing meaningful to say, just passive aggressiveness.
 

Solomeena

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I remember a time when the ban hammer was savage in terms of quantity and in pretty much most cases there was no need to question it. A huge part of me misses that and a part of me doesn't. Post collapse of the moderation team it seems like people want an explanation for almost every ban that occurs here now, while I think it's pretty cool that EviLore supplements users with reasoning for the bans, I think it's straight-up weird and I still can't get used to it. I think the way things are set up now is transparent enough, having to constantly discuss why someone is banned shows a lack of faith in the direction we're going. To be honest I don't think we're even owed explanations at this point given the restructuring of the mod team and how things are generally run here now.
The only reason certain people want explanations on bans are the people who want to go back to the old gaf of banning anyone who has a dissenting opinion of sjw culture and you are seeing it today with certain people questioning NI's ban. Under old gaf NI and his cohorts like Yoshi would be superstars and would have ban immunity, it is why every time one of them gets banned they get all whiny to Evilore. It sticks in their craw that they are not coddled by admins and allowed free reign to say any nasty evil thing they want to.
 

AfricanKing

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Oh yes, i totally spend to much time online. I can go weeks between my posts on GAF sometimes. And it won't take much for me to find your posts...Just type in white. Also, all you do is spam the TRIGGERED emote because you have nothing meaningful to say, just passive aggressiveness.
You've said this same claim before and came up short. Post proof or dont bother.
 
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Yoshi

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No shit he is banned, i didn't think we needed to go over that don't be a dunce honestly. You are his mouthpiece even when he isn't banned and you know this and you know this is why i asked you the question. Stop trying to make yourself look bad. Again, why do you feel the need to be NI's mouthpiece all the time? And by the way, he can still get a hold of moderation when banned, fyi.
I am not his mouthpiece, but several members here, including you, consitently treat NI completely disrespectful for no good reason at all. In this specific discussion here, about the ban, I have talked to NI, obviously, but that's it. I think NI is a very nice person and one of the better posters on this forum, so for him to constantly be treated like an insane person is very unfair in my eyes, which is why I speak out on it. As I would everyone would do if one feels people are being treated unfairly.
 

Ornlu

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To the people sparring back and forth, may I humbly suggest that you take it to PM's?

On topic: I think a temp ban for something minor is fine; especially if it's for a broader reason rather than a single post. For me personally, I think the moderation has been mostly good, but I would request that the listed ban reasons be more explanatory than snarky/joking.
 

12Goblins

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You can fuck right off with this shit. You, @AfricanKing , Nobody_Important and a couple others coordinate your bullshit narrative on this forum because you just have to push that evil white man ideology and sexist males crap. NI has brought this on himself, not gonna feel sorry for his ass. Don't use me as your scape goat. And just to stoke the fire a bit, yeah you SJW's are a cancer, you are sowing the seeds of anger and racism and violence because you want to watch this world burn.
way to make his point bud
 

Yoshi

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Under old gaf NI and his cohorts like Yoshi would be superstars and would have ban immunity
You know, I have been here under "old gaf", after having been banned two or three times, a moderator had this to say about me in public:
we have little interest in taking anything you say about these issues in good faith
Ban immunity my ass.