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NeoGAF Mafia S8 |Review Thread| In Which We Talk about That Thing We Don't Talk About

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
Dec 13, 2011
11,680
0
0
Hellos,
So to cut to the chase, Season 8 is wrapping up and Season 9 will officially launch July 15 (next week). In the meanwhile, let's revisit S8 and see if there's any lessons or improvements we can benefit from, for future seasons.

Topics:
1. From Brexit Mafia, raised by cabot: Scums not having access to day chats. What's your opinions about this?
2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?
3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?
4. Any other things you would like to talk about? Cite the game and example of the thinger and let's cover anything that you feel needs looking into.




Please note that Just Mafia is still going on and any allusions, inference, and other talks may affect its gameplay so..... WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT JUST MAFIA here. Please exclude Just Mafia thoughts and topics from discussion in this thread. Thanks muchly.


OK. That's it. Let us know your thoughts and inputs about how S8 went :>
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
58,500
0
0
Hello spider
 

Karkador

Banned
Mar 3, 2010
8,599
0
0
Can we (or just I) get recaps on these games and the issues at hand, as I didn't read them
 

Sawneeks

Banned
May 20, 2014
3,484
0
0
Hellos,
So to cut to the chase, Season 8 is wrapping up and Season 9 will officially launch July 15 (next week). In the meanwhile, let's revisit S8 and see if there's any lessons or improvements we can benefit from, for future seasons.

Topics:
1. From Brexit Mafia, raised by cabot: Scums not having access to day chats. What's your opinions about this?
2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?
3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?
4. Any other things you would like to talk about? Cite the game and example of the thinger and let's cover anything that you feel needs looking into.
I'll get down some words about these, specifically the bolded, when I get a chance to but I do want to take a moment to thank all the Mods for who ran games or who helped run games this Season! Thanks guys!

brb on a train
 

AbsolutBro

Member
Jul 23, 2012
4,509
0
505
1. I have no ability to comment. Seems like it's a major hamstring to scum though.

2. Aggressive playstyle. I think in the end it comes to down to "aggressive" versus "insulting". To go back to Star Wars, Raindoc put up a very grumpy facade in that game which many (myself included) fell for pretty handily. But while it was grumpy, it was never directly insulting. No "you're stupid, your play is stupid and we are all stupider for having read YOUR stupidity" type things. It's one thing to say things prompting activity, even aggressively (e.g. "I really want to see a reads list from you Spooder, or it's going to look REEEEEAL scummy". "How about some thoughts Retro, you haven't put anything but shade down until now") and another to just ride someone's butt without anything constructive. (e.g. "That's a pretty fucking useless post." "Where are you Ouro? You've been a useless sack of crap this whole game.") It's a fine and admittedly somewhat arbitrary line, but I think we should all know enough to not directly insult our fellow players by now. That's what I see as over the line.

3. Post count requirement. I think it sort of worked? I know there were times I was skirting the requirement line, mostly because I didn't really feel I had much to add to the conversation. That can lead to somewhat hollow posts, which in turn leads to "that's such a hollow #scumpost", which in turns leads to defensive posting, but I feel like that's a bit better aspect to the game over "well, just let the mod deal with them". Depending on the game, players (scum or town) may not have time to just "let the mod deal with them". While I would love to not have to require a certain activity level, activity is a major part of the game.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
Dec 13, 2011
11,680
0
0
hi corgi <3

my responses:
1. i think not having access to day chats hurt the mafia in brexit, but having said that, we have had a sample of 1 in this regard. maybe can be tried again in future games? im not in favour of it, to be honest, but as our community matures in its mafia skill.... (lol).... maybe this is something that eventually will organically happen

2. in s8, i have had feedbacks from at least 2 players stating that they would not return to play. having said that, there's always people who has had enough of mafia (and of us, probably ; __ ;)

i have been trying to keep in touch with most of our community members to (both) get feedback and to offer support when required. if there's anything more that the mod enclave can do, let us know :>

personally, i think mafia is a game of lying and emotional manipulation (to a degree) and aggressive playstyle comes in the territory of the game. but i DO understand that people want to have a GOOD TIME and occasionally, horrible insults are not very fun to deal with, no matter if a player realise that it's just in-game aggression.

Anyway, I'm all ears about what others think!

3. Seems post count requirement made sure people posted at least 10 per day phase. Not sure if it actually increase 'activity' or 'quality' of gameplays, but at least it gives a mechanism in which gamerunners can gauge if and when a replacement needs to be sought.

Currently, this is how things work in this space:
  • Player A fails to meet 10 posts requirement in Day Phase > GM contacts Player A at end of Day Phase and gives 24 hours for Player A to respond if they are still wanting to play > At 24 hours mark, Player A either is replaced or has responded that they are still playing
  • Player A fails to meet 10 posts requirement in the NEXT Day Phase > GM searches for replacements at end of Day Phase and drops Player A as soon as replacement is found

Are the processes okay? What can be improved?










NO TALKING ABOUT JUST MAFIA.
 

hey_monkey

Banned
Mar 14, 2007
6,544
0
0
HI IT WAS MY FIRST TIME AND I LIKED IT AND YOU ALL A LOT YAY

I'm still unpacking my house but I wanted this in my subs.
 

Bowlie

Banned
Dec 29, 2014
3,967
0
0
3. I feel like this requirement is only useful to see who needs to be replaced, but that's it. If a person's playstyle is to not post much and think with themselves/pay more attention to others' actions and reactions/anything else, forcing them to post over a certain amount is not going to change that, it only becomes some sort of hassle, "oh, i need to say something even though it's not gonna do much because of that requirement".
This helps the moderators but not the players, in my opinion.

edit: I'm not defending this playstyle, because the game needs communication, but if you have it the requirement isn't gonna change you.
 

Sophia

Member
Feb 8, 2008
23,136
0
1,020
2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?
I just want to talk about this from my point of view real fast.

To put it simply, this made moderating Pineapple Pizza Mafia extremely taxing.

This was difficult for me too, because I'm of two minds here. On one hand there's merit in aggressive play; an appeal to emotions is a fantastic tool at your disposal in mafia, be it as town trying to convince others, or mafia trying to fool town. Lying, deceiving, playing on the emotions of others. It's all part of the game, and has to be part of the game in order for players to enjoy it to it's fullest. Plus, some people are naturally aggressive. I know I can get that way at times. So I don't want to try and disrupt this too much.

But at the same time I came very very close to just handing the game off to another moderator. The primary reason I did not was because I had some excellent support with all the people in the Discord moderator channel helping me out and figuring out the best course of action. Day 2 in particular was infuriating, as people were crossing the lines and arguably breaking GAF rules by swearing so much. And before anyone starts to point fingers, it was more than just one person, so please do not name people. On top of that, the aggressiveness got so intense I received messages and PMs from various players (again, not saying any names) who expressed concern over getting banned at GAF, or wanting to be replaced out of fear they might cross a line and get banned. And of course, we had limited replacements starting out, so I spend a ton of time playing peacemaker and trying to ensure everyone stayed happy.

It wasn't fun for me, to say the least. And I didn't feel that way with Persona Mafia or The Price is Right. Both of those largely ran fine, and I felt really proud afterwords.

I know it's not possible to please everyone, but I'd really like to find a middle ground in the future. People should play to win, and aggressiveness is a valid tactic. But it can't get out of control to the point of what I saw in PPM. I'm not sure what the answer is here, and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this too, especially from those who played the game or helped me moderate.

3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?
I think the 10 post requirement per day phase worked, and is fairly lenient. I'd like to keep this requirement. It provides a reasonable barometer for players too, as they know when they can lynch someone for activity.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Feb 27, 2008
18,518
14
1,200
1. From Brexit Mafia, raised by cabot: Scums not having access to day chats. What's your opinions about this?

I'm fine with it as an alternative game design. While some see Night-Chat-Only as a negative for scum, we have to remember that we've basically always done Always-Open-Chat, which is usually not how the game works (in real life, not on forums). So in reality the way we've been doing it is a decent *advantage* to scum. I'm fine with it, and whomever ends up as scum in those games just has to adapt.

2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?

I think we've beaten this to death in previous seasons and the same answer applies - there's not a good one. Mafia is a game of lying and deceit, and being aggressive is just one vector to do that. Now, when you start getting into name-calling, or calling out people's IRL behavior, or just generally being a dickhead without any REASON behind why you are acting that way, then it needs to be called out. Once a warning, twice a modkill. Don't be a dick to people. We all wanna have fun, and we all want to win, so there has to be a balance. If being a total asshole is your strategy, then maybe you should rethink the strategy. Remember, while we all are "friends" here, we aren't your friends back home. We don't really *know* you, so while you might be feigning aggression, we don't always know that. If the moderator thinks it crosses a line, then remove the player.

On the flipside, if you're on the receiving end of the aggression, remember - it's just a game. In general, after the game is over, we all leave our feelings back in the game and go back to just hating Roy and Topo like usual. If someone is yelling at you, they most likely (MOST LIKELY) aren't doing it in a personal manner, they're doing it to get a rise out of you and gauge your reaction.

3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?

I don't really care. If someone isn't posting enough and you are tired of them, get rid of them. If you're town and you're a low-post, low-content poster, then you suck and you should stop bringing your team down.

4. Any other things you would like to talk about? Cite the game and example of the thinger and let's cover anything that you feel needs looking into.

How awesome is that Ouro guy?

so awesome
 
May 12, 2015
4,806
0
0
I may have been responsible for the compliants

I think my pisslord comment may gone a bit too far but I was kinda taken aback by someone roleclaiming as scum

So sorry

good to see this thread
 

Fireblend

Banned
Jul 22, 2006
20,645
1
0
Hellos,
1. From Brexit Mafia, raised by cabot: Scums not having access to day chats. What's your opinions about this?
I think the scum team should be the one to answer this but I think the idea is worth experimenting with, even if we conclude this time that it was too big a handicap for scum. For example, I'm not sure if scum got to post or do any pre-game planning before the first day phase. If not, maybe that could be included in the next game the mechanic is present in. As town, I didn't feel more "powerful" knowing they didn't have access to chat during the day, in fact I'll admit I forgot about it for a pretty good portion of the game, and as hypothetical scum I bet it lends itself to some less hesitant and more straightforward strategies, that sounds like fun.

2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?
People should be mindful of how their writing can come across. Not everyone has a super thick skin. We all know there's aggression in mafia, but we advertise this community as a friendly, fun, "winning doesn't matter" one, and sometimes the way we play isn't really conductive to that. Sure, for some people winning is more important than for others, but being aggressive and even insulting doesn't make you a better player or increase the odds of winning. Getting frustrated is a good sign that maybe you should step away from the thread for a bit, and it is important to understand that no matter how good you are, these games are still heavily luck-based and getting angry kind of goes against the purpose of playing in the first place.

Also, I like having a high winrate, but I love you people way, way more. I worry when I see people even imply they feel like they're not having fun in a game, or that they're playing "badly", etc. I know that you're supposed to have some thick skin in mafia, but whenever I go on the offense, I re-read my posts to make sure I'm not saying anything that would make anyone feel bad. So, yeah, I'd just ask people to stop and think that while the game will eventually end, the community is not going anywhere, and this one has such incredibly funny, smart, likable people that it is worth it to put in the effort to be a bit more amicable. These are true friends you're playing with.

3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?
I really liked it, both in Arkham and Brexit. 10 also felt like the right number to me. I do think it was an improvement from the previous season and would be sad to see it go. I think we'll always have people dropping out of games or misjudging their ability to keep up with it but I think setting a "minimum goal" and making that as visible as possible both before and during the game is a good way to help them decide whether to play or not, and also set an activity bar that is at the same time not impossible, and acceptable for those that are way more active.

4. Any other things you would like to talk about? Cite the game and example of the thinger and let's cover anything that you feel needs looking into.
Thanks to everyone who played and specially those who ran the games - all of those I played or spectated where tons of fun. Plus, thanks to the support staff working in the shadows :p maintaining this community is no small feat - reviewing and scheduling the games, signups, outer gafia, making sure subs are always available so games don't fall apart, caring so much about everyone being comfortable... You guys should be proud. We're lucky to have you.

Also we all know Brexit didn't get an awards post because I would've gotten MVP. It's ok, no need to discuss it any further, the fact that we all know it is all I need.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
Dec 13, 2011
11,680
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0
Can we (or just I) get recaps on these games and the issues at hand, as I didn't read them
S8 games:
1. Anime
2. Arkham
3. Pineapple Pizza
4. Brexit
5. Just Mafia (we don't talk about this one for now)

Anime - Town gambits drove everyone off the cliff. Kyan may have had a bad time. Scummies won.

spoder's note:
the gender mechanic was a wonderful and creative bearly thing

Arkham - I dont think there's any particular issues with Arkham, but franco and the players that played here might be able to say more? Scummies won.

spoder's note: franco is always hands on with moderating and kept up the daily post count requirements faithfully.

Pineapple Pizza - there was a generally unfriendly tone during the game. town won.

spoder's note: the game was labelled as mild role madness, which means flavour will be dissected for days on end :> (poor sophsoph)

Brexit - mafia didn't have access to scum chats during days. town won here also.

spoder's note: red herring miller made ouro's day and he has been showering cabot with praises for it since.
 

Kalor

Member
Oct 30, 2013
3,532
0
0
1. I really liked not having access to a scum chat during brexit. There were some stages where it might have helped us but I didn't think it was too much of a hindrance. Even if we had the scum chat during the day I don't think it would have changed the outcome that much. I'd be happy to see it pop up again in another game.

3. I don't know if the post count requirement improved contributions. I can think of a few instances this season of people posting fluff just so that they could hit the requirement. Although those are edge cases and having an minimum is probably for the better. 10s a good number as well.
 

*Splinter

Member
Jul 29, 2014
9,676
1
0
1. No day chats
I think it's fine. I prefer day chats (primarily for shit posting purposes) but it does add a nice strategic layer to have them removed. Please consider whether or not you have day chats when designing your game though, don't just arbitrarily slap it on at the end (not that lover did this).

2. Aggression
Sounds like I need to read Pineapple mafia! More seriously I have nothing new to add here. Happens, should be avoided, talk to the mods if you feel it's an issue. There's nothing worse than pushing people out of the community because we crossed a line or lost our tempers, just be careful.

3. 10 post limit
I didn't really notice it, which I guess is a good thing - it is, I think, primarily a tool for the mods.

4. Any other business
Let's not start games on Friday/Saturday eh? It's just a small thing but weekends are hard on activity, and it's easy to fix. (Brexit had a lot of weekend play, some of that comes down to bad luck with turbos but for D1 and D2 it could have been avoided). I'm suggesting this as a guideline rather than a rule.
 

Verelios

Member
Nov 7, 2011
7,770
0
0
Pineapple can really be summed with this post.
Champion of the people

On that note: Can we vote on day end/start or something? Sometimes they'll be at ungodly inconvenient hours which just fuel two crowds: 'X didn't show up at day end, SCUM SCUM SCUM' or 'Trusting, I'll just place a vote and hope there's no fuckery at day end when I already know there will be'.
 

hey_monkey

Banned
Mar 14, 2007
6,544
0
0
Champion of the people

On that note: Can we vote on day end/start or something? Sometimes they'll be at ungodly inconvenient hours which just fuel two crowds: 'X didn't show up at day end, SCUM SCUM SCUM' or 'Trusting, I'll just place a vote and hope there's no fuckery at day end when I already know there will be'.
You mean a vote per game? Because there are so many time zone differences that make it an issue, but if most of a game's roster is on one side of the world you can really see a shift with the current times.
 

*Splinter

Member
Jul 29, 2014
9,676
1
0
Champion of the people

On that note: Can we vote on day end/start or something? Sometimes they'll be at ungodly inconvenient hours which just fuel two crowds: 'X didn't show up at day end, SCUM SCUM SCUM' or 'Trusting, I'll just place a vote and hope there's no fuckery at day end when I already know there will be'.
Needs to be convenient for the mod though, day start especially is quite a lot of work.

Although I guess it's possible to have day start and end at different times.
 

CrimsonFist

Member
Jan 13, 2013
4,799
0
440
Needs to be convenient for the mod though, day start especially is quite a lot of work.

Although I guess it's possible to have day start and end at different times.
A lot of us are in EU time zones time zones too. I can't really make day starts that much later than I normally have them if I want to be sure that I can be around for them.

Weekend Mafia is something I wanted to flag up too. With 3/2 day nights it's unavoidably going to happen in most games though. Would people be open to more variable phase lengths to avoid having an entire day over a weekend? ie. Extending a night by a day to avoid a Friday start.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
May 20, 2014
3,484
0
0
2. From Pineapple Pizza Mafia, raised by Retro and Sophia: Aggressive playstyle - How it affects the tone of gameplay of a given game and the community's player retention. Are there anything that can be done in this space?
In regards to what happened in Pineapple Mafia I think what needs to be established is the difference between an Aggressive Play style and 'Crossing the Line' because what happened in that game went way over just 'Aggressive Play'.

An aggressive play style is fine and arguably comes with the territory of a game about lying and deceiving others. Whether that means getting on someone's case about something they said earlier, hounding them for answers, or just nitpicking every single thing they said could just be a couple of examples. It could also be just being blunt to someone in the game, i.e. 'I'm voting for you. Can't change that. Tough shit.' It's something that is likely always going to be in the game just because of how some people play or just how events unfold and how tense situations can get. These kinds of play styles are ones that are fine, they can get close to the line sometimes but generally things play out alright. If any Players find issue with a certain comment or tone of a fellow player it's always open for them to talk to a Mod and it can get handled from there accordingly.

What is never okay is when the line between being aggressive and, for the lack of a better term, being a dick is crossed. Personal insults, name calling, or just deriding a fellow Player for no reason is something that should not be tolerated here for any reason. We're all here to have fun and play a game we are all interested in and I'm sure none of us want to come in here and find out someone else has thrown personal insults their way and attacked their character. It should be basic respect for your fellow human being but you never know what someone is going through or if they're having a great day or an absolutely shitty week and I don't want to see people dread coming into a game just because some individuals can not respect others. Maybe you just really want to win, fine, but that should not cost stepping over your fellow players in a game based around playing as a team. Dozens of games have been won without people insulting one another so I don't see why that should ever be seen as a prerequisite for winning.

When it comes to how it affected the tone of the game those that played more in Pineapple Mafia can give a voice to how they felt but for me, personally, in the time I was in the game and despite never being a target of this behavior I found it frustrating and a deterrent to actually checking the thread a few times. To see people I would consider friends being attacked personally with insults on their character was frustrating and downright infuriating at times. I called it out in the thread but it is never, ever okay to cross that line and go that far. There were a few times as I caught up and saw more of it happening that I simply stopped reading and went and did something else entirely as to not get more frustrated. It got to a point where I would not check the thread in my downtime at work because I was just not in the mood to see more of the same. This had nothing to do with me dropping out ( that was me not realizing I would be out-of-town for part of the game ) but I will say it significantly impacted how I viewed the game itself and if that had been my first game I likely would not have kept playing.

When it comes to dealing with it? I agree with Ouro; First time is a warning from the Mod, second time is a direct Mod Kill. If the first warning isn't enough of a deterrent then it's unlikely that a second, third, or fourth warning will change anything. Not only is it disrespectful to those you are playing with but, if you want a more 'practical' reason, it also breaks Neogaf's TOS and while we are on good terms with the GAF Mods I don't think they would find it okay to see a sub-community constantly breaking site rules. I'm of the mind that it needs to be a hard rule, one that isn't flexible. You break it twice and now get mod killed? Tough, you're out.

3. Post Count requirement, raised by last season's review thread and me: Season 8 implemented minimum post counts of 10. How did this work? Was this an improvement from the previous season?
I liked it. I kind of agree with Bowlie that this is more for the Mods than the players but I don't see any negative reasons towards keeping it implemented. 10 posts feels like a perfect fit moving forward.

On that note: Can we vote on day end/start or something? Sometimes they'll be at ungodly inconvenient hours which just fuel two crowds: 'X didn't show up at day end, SCUM SCUM SCUM' or 'Trusting, I'll just place a vote and hope there's no fuckery at day end when I already know there will be'.
When LP and I modded Zelda Mafia we decided on our Start/End date by figuring out what time would be best so that we could be around for our own game. It wasn't just 'be on around 3 PM PST for the End of Day flavor', it was usually 'be on around an hour BEFORE Day End' for Vote Counts, watching for Hammers, shenanigans, etc.

It's the same for all games since whoever is running the game is responsible for their own Start/End Flavor/Vote Count unless they can't be around, in which case another Mod from the Mod Squad takes over for that time. Add in Timezones to that mix and there really isn't a fix to this problem unfortunately, not unless GAF implements a Bot to handle Day Ends for us. :<
 

Sawneeks

Banned
May 20, 2014
3,484
0
0
24 hour night phases imo not more, it's easier to stay interested
Oh yeah, wanted to say I agree with this too.

24 for a Night Phase is perfect, 48 is long but not too bad, 72 and up is too much. It's very easy to lose interest with 3 irl days in between Day Phases.
 

cabot

Member
Mar 22, 2010
6,361
0
0
42
I wanted to test a night-only chat because I felt people were too reliant on hiding in their faction chats, I wanted players to be able to think on their own and go head first into the main game thread.

I think it caused issues, but I wouldn't mind seeing it again if it was stated up front.

As for weekend starts, best solution is to expand night phases to escape weekends, again something that would be stated up front on game sign ups. It's inevitable with shorter cycles as Crimson says, so the only real alternative is expanding night phases to accommodate the mods and the players.

I also think aggressive play is valid, but agree with Ouro that it's really up to the mods where the line stands. The line is flexible with the context and situation, obviously.

Post count was alright, it was never meant to improve post quality, it was to establish a baseline to judge a player or face a replacement. You have a better idea of whether to lynch a player if they've made at least 10 posts a day phase than one day phase with 20 posts and the next with 2 and the third with 5.


I don't think you should vote for day starts. Too messy and adds more work for the mod. Best scenario I can think of is to offer at sign up to have elastic phases to favour Days avoiding weekends.
 

roytheone

Member
Feb 3, 2014
5,919
0
385
The Netherlands
24 hour night phases imo not more, it's easier to stay interested
I am not a fan of 24 hours night phases AT ALL. This is mostly because of my experience as scum in Nx mafia, there the timezones of me and my scum buddies were pretty much totally misaligned, there were no real moments we were all online. This meant that when the game moved to 24 hour nights, it became really hard/pretty much impossible to discuss the final happenings of the day and use that to discuss night actions. A whole game with 24 hour night phases could seriously hurt scum if they have bad luck with rng and they are all in different time zones. That seems quite unfair and frustrating for scum.
 

cabot

Member
Mar 22, 2010
6,361
0
0
42
24 is indeed too short considering timezones, would only accept for the smallest games.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,404
0
0
Why are we still trying to get this right 8 seasons later?

Don't be a dick.

Cursing is fine, aggression is fine, even name calling is ok if you are aware of where the line is. Crossing the line is when you leave the confines of the game to purposely harass or demean someone else. There is no strategic layer in maliciousness.

Post count is fine, we needed a system in place and it's something. Anything we do can be gamed but I didn't notice anyone purposely doing that so it's fine.

I've never been a fan of no day chat for scum. It's fine as a mechanic if it's tied to a pr or something else in the game state but just to be there for the sake of it? Nah.
 

Sorian

Banned
Nov 18, 2012
22,404
0
0
Also obligatory just mafia post.

Y'all thought there wouldn't be Sorian

But then there was Sorian
 

hey_monkey

Banned
Mar 14, 2007
6,544
0
0
Yeah, as much as I hate waiting through night phases, 24 is too short.

I like flexible day phases stayed up front. Maybe also tell us what time zone the mods are in? I know a lot of y'all are veterans and know where people are but coming in new, it was hard.

I also want to say that the spreadsheets of data that came out were AMAZING. Bowlie especially, that was so helpful for a newbie because the meta is huge. Again y'all may not notice but it's hard to crack. I wonder about a community wiki? Game summaries and highlights and pages for players? You can go back and read the old games but they are long.
 

Verelios

Member
Nov 7, 2011
7,770
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You mean a vote per game? Because there are so many time zone differences that make it an issue, but if most of a game's roster is on one side of the world you can really see a shift with the current times.
Needs to be convenient for the mod though, day start especially is quite a lot of work.

Although I guess it's possible to have day start and end at different times.
When LP and I modded Zelda Mafia we decided on our Start/End date by figuring out what time would be best so that we could be around for our own game. It wasn't just 'be on around 3 PM PST for the End of Day flavor', it was usually 'be on around an hour BEFORE Day End' for Vote Counts, watching for Hammers, shenanigans, etc.

It's the same for all games since whoever is running the game is responsible for their own Start/End Flavor/Vote Count unless they can't be around, in which case another Mod from the Mod Squad takes over for that time. Add in Timezones to that mix and there really isn't a fix to this problem unfortunately, not unless GAF implements a Bot to handle Day Ends for us. :<
I don't think you should vote for day starts. Too messy and adds more work for the mod. Best scenario I can think of is to offer at sign up to have elastic phases to favour Days avoiding weekends.
Fair enough, I somehow always forget to factor in mods having lives outside of our convenience (which is bad!) and kind of agree on day starts being suitable for them. Doesn't mean I can't complaaaaaaain though.
 

CrimsonFist

Member
Jan 13, 2013
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Yeah, as much as I hate waiting through night phases, 24 is too short.

I like flexible day phases stayed up front. Maybe also tell us what time zone the mods are in? I know a lot of y'all are veterans and know where people are but coming in new, it was hard.

I also want to say that the spreadsheets of data that came out were AMAZING. Bowlie especially, that was so helpful for a newbie because the meta is huge. Again y'all may not notice but it's hard to crack. I wonder about a community wiki? Game summaries and highlights and pages for players? You can go back and read the old games but they are long.
Promoting mod time zones more might be a good idea. So that town know when a mod should be around to end the day if they want to turbo, and not end it at 3am. v_v
 

*Splinter

Member
Jul 29, 2014
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Promoting mod time zones more might be a good idea. So that town know when a mod should be around to end the day if they want to turbo, and not end it at 3am. v_v
Nah I think it's better if people can play the game without worrying about external factors. Backup mods can end the day, or town can wait for a flip, not a big deal.
 

Dr. Worm

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Jul 26, 2015
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Would it make sense for the timers to use something like 36 for the night or 60 for the day?

It might suck for the moderators, but it would help ensure that no one gets screwed repeatedly by timezones, or at least no more so than anyone else
 

Sophia

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Feb 8, 2008
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I do my day starts/ends at 5 PM Eastern because it's usually the most convenient time for me. I'm actually curious as to how that time is for non US folks, because the option is available for me to do them at other times too.
 

Ourobolus

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Feb 27, 2008
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I normally did my day/end at 2PM EST/EDT. Which makes it evening for eurotrash, but it makes StanleyPalmtree/ynnny wake up early. Which, let's be honest, is totally fine.
 

weemadarthur

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Feb 27, 2012
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When games are recruiting, it could help to post the day start/end time zone. That way signers up know in advance and can't complain. Sorry vere.


Editing just to edit.
I like the post minimum, it gives a standard to refer to. I think it improved the participation just slightly, and didn't cause more replacements - those players would have replaced out anyway.
 

Sawneeks

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May 20, 2014
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I also want to say that the spreadsheets of data that came out were AMAZING. Bowlie especially, that was so helpful for a newbie because the meta is huge. Again y'all may not notice but it's hard to crack. I wonder about a community wiki? Game summaries and highlights and pages for players? You can go back and read the old games but they are long.
It's been jokingly discussed before in previous Seasons but nothing has ever really come of it. I'm sure no one would say no if someone put it together but nobody has really had the time ( or drive ) to do it.
 

*Splinter

Member
Jul 29, 2014
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The idea of an entire wiki page dedicated to my storied Mafia career is somewhat appealing though...
 

hey_monkey

Banned
Mar 14, 2007
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Nah I think it's better if people can play the game without worrying about external factors. Backup mods can end the day, or town can wait for a flip, not a big deal.
Oh, I was just saying it would be helpful for players to know mod time zones. At least not hurtful.

Would it make sense for the timers to use something like 36 for the night or 60 for the day?

It might suck for the moderators, but it would help ensure that no one gets screwed repeatedly by timezones, or at least no more so than anyone else
Hmm, if it's known in advance and there are backup mods to end a day, that could be interesting. But presents possible problems with day starts. Could be a rough window like this, adjusted at need. Like if we turbo, it might be 32 or 38 to keep things within a workable window. But it would take some getting used to.