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NeoGAF Post by Ori Dev: Scorpio is a "full blown next generation Console

EventHorizon

Member
Jul 15, 2013
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565
To be fair, the Pro is half-assed in its design, considering what they could've done with it and ultimately what they didn't do. Not saying that Scorpio will be any better, but that shade has at least some legitimacy.
The Pro isn't "half-assed in its design". It correctly made its primary design goals a $399 price point and full compatibility with the base PS4. The idea that Sony would kneecap its huge success with the PS4 to split the market and release an expensive more powerful Pro that wouldn't sell because it cost too much is ridiculous.

The Pro is the best high end console model that we've had. Typically all we would get would be a 2TB version of the base model. Let me point out that at $399 that is exactly what Microsoft has to compete with the Pro. Now you tell me which one you think most people would rather have at that price.
 

pastrami

Member
May 23, 2014
2,174
0
290
Specs are written in stone. Therefore they are non arbitrary. Go back and check out the specs and the differences in upgrades.
Where is the line drawn, and who draws that line?

It's all arbitrary. People who agree with Mahler have decided the line is between PS4 Pro and Scorpio. Other people think the line is beyond Scorpio. It's just self defeating to point out that other people's definition of generations is arbitrary when you yourself are arguing an arbitrary definition.
 

geordiemp

Gold Member
Sep 5, 2013
9,948
12,814
930
UK
The Ps4 is a halfassed upgrade, which it kinda is.
All upgrades are half assed on consoles and dont do much to performance until we get a ZEN APU.

Just add a few more pixels and stuff, which is fine, but we need more enemies, more AI, not barren worlds and 60 FPS.

Next gen starts when consoles get i5 class CPU and gaming logic really makes a step forward, or we get 60 FPS and no more 30.

Scorpio and Ps4 Pro are fine for 4K TV owners and will do a job, but lets not get carried away. Disclaimer I have Pro and a 4K TV.
 

Omnistalgic

Member
Mar 20, 2012
10,662
0
0
Jersey
Instead of jumping on the train, how about you provide your opinion?
This thread is already older than the one that post started in, which I was a part of and shared my opinion on the whole situation. There was also the DF video/Eurogamer thread where I posted the exact quote myself lol. At this point, I'm just going to wait and see what the Scorpio is and stop listening to anyone on GAF.

Why put in the effort when making a drive-by shitpost has no repercussions whatsoever?
Whoa...Someone is offended? As stated, you guys are kinda late, I and others have been discussing this across multiple threads yesterday.

Regardless of what Scorpio is, I think it's absurd to call Pro 'half-assed' in any case, and that shouldn't need me to reiterate on based on the available information.
 

Okami Haundo

Member
Mar 17, 2016
5,194
260
515
U.S.
Whoa...Someone is offended? As stated, you guys are kinda late, I and others have been discussing this across multiple threads yesterday.

Regardless of what Scorpio is, I think it's absurd to call Pro 'half-assed' in any case, and that shouldn't need me to reiterate on based on the available information.
Yeah... I think the "half-assed" comment really invited some of the worst possible discourse here. From what we know, Microsoft and Sony are taking different approaches to iterative consoles. That doesn't make one "half-assed", they're just different. It doesn't help that OP did absolutely nothing to invite positive discussion here.
 

QaaQer

Member
Jun 13, 2012
11,333
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0
Because it's simply not enough of a quantum leap in actual graphical and processing capability, from the standpoint of this developer who has access to the Scorpio hardware and has seen the PS4 Pro hardware. More than any of us can say.
Also, it's just an opinion from someone who can't or won't speak freely and articulately, hence this thread.
 

hanspampel

Banned
Oct 5, 2016
3,516
0
0
You're kidding, right? The PlayStation 2 played PlayStation 1 games and that was very much appreciated. I'd hate to buy a Scorpio or a PS5 only to lose access to all my games once again. That's just a stupid thing for consumers and it's a stupid thing for developers, since now the games are just taken off the market and some of you are then happy to buy a 'remaster' (which more often than not is the same exact game only with the native resolution cranked up) again - How is this better than new consoles not making this crappy cut, especially since they're all - similar to the PC - using the same architecture now anyway?

I understand your folks point about new gen begins with a new baseline, but why do we have to think that way at this point in the game? Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.

Are there any next-gen games out there that purely in terms of gameplay couldn't have been done on a last-gen console? I have a hard time coming up with any. Devs will just have to treat consoles like PCs, having multiple hardware configurations that they'll adjust their games to. Having to make this distinction between 'cross-gen games' or 'well, those were DIFFERENT games cause they were shipped for different boxes is just really bogus. Wouldn't you have preferred to buy Titanfall ONCE and then being able to play it on your 360, PC, Xbox One - Instead of having to buy a separate version? That's EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing here. You buy a game for the Xbox Platform, which means you'll be able to play it on any of the Microsoft platforms.

And I'm sure at some point - simply due to the nature of technology - older hardware won't be able to run the newest games. But that doesn't have to happen now. Current gen boxes still have plenty of power and if for the next few years I'm able to play games in HD/30 on current gen and 4k/60 on next-gen, I'm fine with that.
Sometimes people thy hard to find anything negative, so they can dislike the new "bad" change.
Some realize early, some need more time. And other will never change their opinion no matter what.

I do agree with you.
And lets be honest. Even ps5 will have full ps4 (and ps4 pro) backwards compatibility, or the outrage will be as big as the xbox one reveal with always online and no used games.

They'll probably just handel forward compatibility different than Microsoft
 

welshrat

Member
Apr 28, 2015
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76
320
I Don't often post here however thought I should add my 2 Pence worth. I am a mobile developer and I am lucky enough to be able to afford most tech hardware that I want or need.

Up until I bought the PS4 Pro and going back to the start of last gen (xbox 360, ps3) I had a very decent gaming PC in my living room and my office (i7 haswell with 970gtx), This was because I was not happy with the vast difference between what the consoles can produce and what My PC could.

Last month I moved my gaming PC into my office as I simply was not playing it anymore as I was for the first time in years really happy with the IQ and performance of the Pro. I am not in anyway trying to imply that the pro has reached PC quality, however it has reached a standard that I am more than happy with.

So I am guessing that anyone who thinks the Pro is half assed is either very biased or has not used one extensively..

EDIT - assuming the Scorpio offers enough of a difference again and has some great exclusives I shall purchase one as well, however given I have the 2 PCs in the house I think it will need to prove a lot more given the shared software base.
 
Jul 21, 2015
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Sometimes people thy hard to find a anything negative, do they can dislike the new "bad" change.
Some realize early, some need more time. And other will never change their opinion no matter what.

I do agree with you.
And lets be honest. Even ps5 will have full ps4 (and ps4 pro) backwards compatibility, or the outrage will be as big as the xbox one reveal with always online and no used games.

They'll probably just handel forward compatibility different than Microsoft
I swear you just say the most outlandish shit for attention

The general public didn't give a shit when there was no backwards compatibility on either console at launch and they aren't gonna care in 2019/2020.
 

Freeman

Banned
Aug 23, 2013
6,275
1,993
840
PS4 / PS4 Pro is extremely smart design given what they had. They changed as little as possible to be able to render the same games at higher resolutions, without having to make much of an effort.

Once you start with different memory architecture, with a different processor, things start to get trickier. If MS is really going for a new gen at this point, I think they'll regret it.
 

The Artisan

Member
Jul 13, 2014
22,632
1
610
All upgrades are half assed on consoles and dont do much to performance until we get a ZEN APU.

Just add a few more pixels and stuff, which is fine, but we need more enemies, more AI, not barren worlds and 60 FPS.

Next gen starts when consoles get i5 class CPU and gaming logic really makes a step forward, or we get 60 FPS and no more 30.

Scorpio and Ps4 Pro are fine for 4K TV owners and will do a job, but lets not get carried away. Disclaimer I have Pro and a 4K TV.
it was a jokepost! that was the quote in the OP!
 

Omnistalgic

Member
Mar 20, 2012
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0
Jersey
Yeah... I think the "half-assed" comment really invited some of the worst possible discourse here. From what we know, Microsoft and Sony are taking different approaches to iterative consoles. That doesn't make one "half-assed", they're just different. It doesn't help that OP did absolutely nothing to invite positive discussion here.
Yeah...and all this f/c b/c talk is just a lot of conjecture based on every single word anyone from MS or Sony says.

I think we just need to be patient. Specs will be revealed soon, what i'm most interested in is real-world performance. The reason I quoted the Ori dev in the other thread was not to highlight his comment as a slight (though I think it was and is kinda ridiculous) but to me that implied Scorpio may indeed have games designed specifically for it or even have exclusive. If what DF reported holds true with little to no changes in the final hardware, I think he should adjust what he said because that really does give rise to unrealistic expectations.

We all know what next-gen implies on forums, I think it's silly to argue over what the term means in exact detail like GAF does. It's just a marketing term. But it implies something new the devs can do on brand new hardware, some new AI advances, etc...if Scorpio is just hitting native 4K on more games than PS4 Pro is, better frame-rates and a general "high" versus "medium" difference in game output, that comment just seems foolish. I don't buy the whole "he's implying something different with his definition of new gen". Tech advancement was implied with his wording. And the end result (the actual difference in games) should be pretty huge based on what he's saying. I don't think that's gonna happen.
 

Samurai G0SU

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Jan 3, 2015
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What if scorpio had the xbox one gpu and put a clone right next it. the cloned gpu only turning on when scorpio mode is enabled with the game.Also increasing the clock on the same cpu and freed up a little more of 8gb ddr3 ram for devs to use.
 

hanspampel

Banned
Oct 5, 2016
3,516
0
0
I swear you just say the most outlandish shit for attention

The general public didn't give a shit when there was no backwards compatibility on either console at launch and they aren't gonna care in 2019/2020.
Lol this comment from you?
How ironic...

They didn't give a shit because there was no 100+ digital library the gamer owned. Because there were no GaaS games that are played and get updates for years.


Well you know? Things change over time! And good bye 🙋
 

wbEMX

Member
Apr 7, 2014
1,174
0
355
Straubing, Germany
The Pro isn't "half-assed in its design". It correctly made its primary design goals a $399 price point and full compatibility with the base PS4. The idea that Sony would kneecap its huge success with the PS4 to split the market and release an expensive more powerful Pro that wouldn't sell because it cost too much is ridiculous.

The Pro is the best high end console model that we've had. Typically all we would get would be a 2TB version of the base model. Let me point out that at $399 that is exactly what Microsoft has to compete with the Pro. Now you tell me which one you think most people would rather have at that price.
Then let me reiterate.

The concept of it is half-assed because 4K gaming at that price-point in this timeframe is an asinine idea. Designing and explicitely promoting it to be a 4K machine while doing 1800p checkerboarding and sometimes even getting worse fps than the base PS4 is what I consider to be half-assed. If the Pro's primary goal would've been to provide 60fps for most of the games where it's possible, that would actually be a smarter concept in itself. The Pro doesn't feel like a Pro machine to me at all. Oh, and putting the focus on 4K and then skipping 4K BDs? Fuck off, Sony.

To be perfectly clear, before I get accused of any sort of fanboyism: I think the Scorpio will follow the Pro at least in the regard of having a half-assed concept. Even the proposed 6TFLOPS are not nearly enough for native 4K and good performance at the same time for most of the games. That's not what I call a generational leap.
 

Unity2012

Member
Mar 6, 2011
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680
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You're kidding, right? The PlayStation 2 played PlayStation 1 games and that was very much appreciated. I'd hate to buy a Scorpio or a PS5 only to lose access to all my games once again. That's just a stupid thing for consumers and it's a stupid thing for developers, since now the games are just taken off the market and some of you are then happy to buy a 'remaster' (which more often than not is the same exact game only with the native resolution cranked up) again - How is this better than new consoles not making this crappy cut, especially since they're all - similar to the PC - using the same architecture now anyway?

I understand your folks point about new gen begins with a new baseline, but why do we have to think that way at this point in the game? Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.

Are there any next-gen games out there that purely in terms of gameplay couldn't have been done on a last-gen console? I have a hard time coming up with any. Devs will just have to treat consoles like PCs, having multiple hardware configurations that they'll adjust their games to. Having to make this distinction between 'cross-gen games' or 'well, those were DIFFERENT games cause they were shipped for different boxes is just really bogus. Wouldn't you have preferred to buy Titanfall ONCE and then being able to play it on your 360, PC, Xbox One - Instead of having to buy a separate version? That's EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing here. You buy a game for the Xbox Platform, which means you'll be able to play it on any of the Microsoft platforms.

And I'm sure at some point - simply due to the nature of technology - older hardware won't be able to run the newest games. But that doesn't have to happen now. Current gen boxes still have plenty of power and if for the next few years I'm able to play games in HD/30 on current gen and 4k/60 on next-gen, I'm fine with that.
Agreed. Great post.

Scorpio is coming a year later for a reason. MS learned a big lesson with the outstanding reception of its backwards compatibility program. They are complying alla PC with gamers demand to be able to play their games in a common platform.
 
Jul 21, 2015
2,143
0
0
Lol this comment from you?
How ironic...

They didn't give a shit because there was no 100+ digital library the gamer owned. Because there were no GaaS games that are played and get updates for years.


Well you know? Things change over time! And good bye 🙋
MS put out some type of number or percent of people who used backwards compatibility and guess what ? Is was fucking terrible. I guess time didn't change anything because the general public still didn't give a shit.
 

Ushay

Member
Sep 9, 2014
6,542
0
375
You're kidding, right? The PlayStation 2 played PlayStation 1 games and that was very much appreciated. I'd hate to buy a Scorpio or a PS5 only to lose access to all my games once again. That's just a stupid thing for consumers and it's a stupid thing for developers, since now the games are just taken off the market and some of you are then happy to buy a 'remaster' (which more often than not is the same exact game only with the native resolution cranked up) again - How is this better than new consoles not making this crappy cut, especially since they're all - similar to the PC - using the same architecture now anyway?

I understand your folks point about new gen begins with a new baseline, but why do we have to think that way at this point in the game? Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.

Are there any next-gen games out there that purely in terms of gameplay couldn't have been done on a last-gen console? I have a hard time coming up with any. Devs will just have to treat consoles like PCs, having multiple hardware configurations that they'll adjust their games to. Having to make this distinction between 'cross-gen games' or 'well, those were DIFFERENT games cause they were shipped for different boxes is just really bogus. Wouldn't you have preferred to buy Titanfall ONCE and then being able to play it on your 360, PC, Xbox One - Instead of having to buy a separate version? That's EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing here. You buy a game for the Xbox Platform, which means you'll be able to play it on any of the Microsoft platforms.

And I'm sure at some point - simply due to the nature of technology - older hardware won't be able to run the newest games. But that doesn't have to happen now. Current gen boxes still have plenty of power and if for the next few years I'm able to play games in HD/30 on current gen and 4k/60 on next-gen, I'm fine with that.
Great post that clearly defines what MS is doing here.
 

c0de

Member
Aug 22, 2012
8,460
65
540
I swear you just say the most outlandish shit for attention

The general public didn't give a shit when there was no backwards compatibility on either console at launch and they aren't gonna care in 2019/2020.
So you think everybody will be fine when their digital library of PS4 games will be kept on PS4? Interesting.
 

Neo_Geo

Member
Sep 14, 2015
757
29
360
$Hat. Console gens these days are pushing competent people to just stick with PC and whatever Nintendo has to offer since they aren't simply a seriously crippled PC that is locked down more than an Apple product.
 

CrimsonSlab

Member
Jun 15, 2016
145
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0
I was always hoping Scorpio would be next-gen and not just an upgrade, mainly because they always push new tech in games at the beginning of each generation (not just necessarily graphics) and I love it.
 

presagetogood

Member
Dec 8, 2014
139
0
310
Where is the line drawn, and who draws that line?

It's all arbitrary. People who agree with Mahler have decided the line is between PS4 Pro and Scorpio. Other people think the line is beyond Scorpio. It's just self defeating to point out that other people's definition of generations is arbitrary when you yourself are arguing an arbitrary definition.
Traditional generation jumps in terms of available power on a percentage basis have typically been the differentiating mark, or line that you're referring to. We can draw a lot from the TF difference, RAM bandwidth, total available RAM. What's available in Scorpio is a much greater jump from PS4/XB1 than PS4 Pro is. What we can say is Scorpio is 3-4 times more powerful than XB1, on the lines of a traditional generational bump. PS4 Pro is not quite 2 times more powerful than XB1 in terms of available graphical compute while using the same CPU architecture, something that's still left to be seen about Scorpio.

Also, it's just an opinion from someone who can't or won't speak freely and articulately, hence this thread.
I don't know what your definition of articulate is, but the developer is here in this very thread talking freely and in an intelligible and contextually deep fashion.
 

thomasmahler

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May 11, 2010
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Oh so you finally reached the logic conclussion: it doesn't have to happen now, because there is no next generation console releasing now on the MS ecosystem.

When it happens, that will be the next gen.
I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop arguing semantics. I think it's pretty clear where things are heading - Here's my prediction: When Sony announces their PS5 (which will probably happen after Scorpio releases), you'll hear that it'll also be compatible to your entire PS4 library (since it's - like the PS4Pro - going to be another hardware upgrade based on the same architecture). You'll also see games that are going to be announced that will not be exclusive only to the PS5, since it just hurts developers. A new console comes out and we go from a hardware platform that has 50 or so million installed units to, say, 5. So automatically, I would reach a MUCH smaller audience. So a lot of games will still be 'forward-compatible' - whether Sony forces that or not will be up to them.

I'm always a bit baffled that simply because the X360 / PS3 generation lasted for 8 years, people now think that's the norm. Hardware generations never lasted that long before. It's always been around 5 or so years, sometimes less.

On Microsofts side, I think they see a lot of power in giving players a huge variety of games - which is why the Xbox360 BC stuff now allows you to play hundreds of 360 games on your Xbox One. Being able to buy a new box and having access to a ton of older games mixed in with the new ones is a good thing. If I buy a new PC, I love looking at what my new hardware did to games I played before, it's great.

Looking forward, I very much doubt that any hardware manufacturer will make another super drastic cut like what we've seen before. That's partly the reason why they're all using an x86 base. It's just not necessary anymore and it hurts the entire industry every time with publishers not willing to spend high double-digit million USD on a next-gen game for a platform that has an installed base of 5 million units or so. We've already seen that hitting hard this gen and looking forward, hardware upgrades are going to be more gradual and happen more often. Sony dipped their feet into the water with the PS4Pro and Microsoft aims for a bigger splash with Scorpio, but the idea here is that the platform and the games available for those platforms are what's important, not the box itself. The box is just your access point and you'll be able to pick which box you buy based on your requirements.

You see people complaining all the time about lack of resolution or framerate for various games. The idea is to give people choice - if you're a hardcore gamer and you want your 60fps, you should be able to get a box that suits your needs. Right now console-manufacturers lose gamers to the PC because of that reason and in the future, you'll just get more choice.
 

EventHorizon

Member
Jul 15, 2013
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565
Then let me reiterate.

The concept of it is half-assed because 4K gaming at that price-point in this timeframe is an asinine idea. Designing and explicitely promoting it to be a 4K machine while doing 1800p checkerboarding and sometimes even getting worse fps than the base PS4 is what I consider to be half-assed. If the Pro's primary goal would've been to provide 60fps for most of the games where it's possible, that would actually be a smarter concept in itself. The Pro doesn't feel like a Pro machine to me at all. Oh, and putting the focus on 4K and then skipping 4K BDs? Fuck off, Sony.

To be perfectly clear, before I get accused of any sort of fanboyism: I think the Scorpio will follow the Pro at least in the regard of having a half-assed concept. Even the proposed 6TFLOPS are not nearly enough for native 4K and good performance at the same time for most of the games. That's not what I call a generational leap.
Answer the question I posed. Which console do you think the general public finds more compelling?
Choice #1: $399 1TB PlayStation Pro
Choice #2: $399 2TB Xbox One S​
 

c0de

Member
Aug 22, 2012
8,460
65
540
People where just fine when this generation started right ?
And you think growing digital libraries don't change the attitude for many people?
But ok Sony, don't care about bc with PS5, let people rebuy remasters or ports of old games, worked also this gen.
 

QaaQer

Member
Jun 13, 2012
11,333
0
0
Traditional generation jumps in terms of available power on a percentage basis have typically been the differentiating mark, or line that you're referring to. We can draw a lot from the TF difference, RAM bandwidth, total available RAM. What's available in Scorpio is a much greater jump from PS4/XB1 than PS4 Pro is. What we can say is Scorpio is 3-4 times more powerful than XB1, on the lines of a traditional generational bump. PS4 Pro is not quite 2 times more powerful than XB1 in terms of available graphical compute while using the same CPU architecture, something that's still left to be seen about Scorpio.


I don't know what your definition of articulate is, but the developer is here in this very thread talking freely and in an intelligible and contextually deep fashion.
Guy uses an idiosyncratic definition of words like 'generation' which makes discussion really hard, and he is undoubtedly under nda if he has access to hardware. He likes likes stirring the shit and that's ok, it makes gaf interesting; what it doesn't do is clarify things.
 

Fisty

Member
Jun 26, 2014
7,431
5
340
Then let me reiterate.

The concept of it is half-assed because 4K gaming at that price-point in this timeframe is an asinine idea. Designing it to be a 4K machine while doing 1800p checkerboarding and sometimes even getting worse fps than the base PS4 is what I consider to be half-assed. If the Pro's primary goal would've been to provide 60fps for most of the games where it's possible, that would actually be a smarter concept in itself. The Pro doesn't feel like a Pro machine to me at all. Oh, and putting the focus on 4K and then skipping 4K BDs? Fuck off, Sony.

To be perfectly clear, before I get accused of any sort of fanboyism: I think the Scorpio will follow the Pro at least in the regard of having a half-assed concept. Even the proposed 6TFLOPS are not nearly enough for native 4K and good performance at the same time for most of the games. That's not what I call a generational leap.
It's a close approximation of 4K for TV owners that want a little better IQ on their 4K panels. Like you said, hitting 4K at $400 in 2016 wasn't going to happen for most AAA so here's a little extra eye candy for 4k (and 1080p) TV owners while they wait for PS5 (when 4K will be more mainstream)

Funny thing is, the Pro has shown lots of people that 4K isn't always the best use of the power, and doing a "good enough" solution for resolution gives you room to really crank up effects etc
 

presagetogood

Member
Dec 8, 2014
139
0
310
Answer the question I posed. Which console do you think the general public finds more compelling?
Choice #1: $399 1TB PlayStation Pro
Choice #2: $399 2TB Xbox One S​
You're comparing a post-upgrade line of consoles/devices to a line of consoles that has only seen a slim revision. Let's wait and see how MS pricing is realigned when Scorpio hits.

Also, your question is not ultimately relevant to the point of this thread.
 

pastrami

Member
May 23, 2014
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290
Traditional generation jumps in terms of available power on a percentage basis have typically been the differentiating mark, or line that you're referring to. We can draw a lot from the TF difference, RAM bandwidth, total available RAM. What's available in Scorpio is a much greater jump from PS4/XB1 than PS4 Pro is. What we can say is Scorpio is 3-4 times more powerful than XB1, on the lines of a traditional generational bump. PS4 Pro is not quite 2 times more powerful than XB1 in terms of available graphical compute while using the same CPU architecture, something that's still left to be seen about Scorpio.
You do realize that you are still arguing an arbitrary point, right?
 

RedlineRonin

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Apr 26, 2013
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0
$Hat. Console gens these days are pushing competent people to just stick with PC and whatever Nintendo has to offer since they aren't simply a seriously crippled PC that is locked down more than an Apple product.
Nope, they aren't entirely . In fact I just bought a PS4P because the graphics quality was to the point where some games are a stones throw from what I'm used to on PC.

Don't get me wrong, you're right about MS. I have a great PC and if your goal is to put all your exclusives on PC so I can avoid buying a Scorpio entirely, fantastic. But on the Sony side, NPD numbers are showing Sony is having plenty of success, despite what you might think.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 3, 2014
8,005
1
410
Germany
Agreed. Great post.

Scorpio is coming a year later for a reason. MS learned a big lesson with the outstanding reception of its backwards compatibility program. They are complying alla PC with gamers demand to be able to play their games in a common platform.
What exactly has BC, a known console feature since the nineties, to do with "defining next gen"?

We all know that in times of digital libraries BC is king and a cool feature in general.

But that doesn't mean a PS4 will be able to run all PS5 games, which is forward compatability, and a whole other story. I truly don't get where all the fuzz about BC comes from with regard to Scorpio being a "full blown next generation”.
 

otakukidd

Member
Nov 4, 2013
844
0
0
You're kidding, right? The PlayStation 2 played PlayStation 1 games and that was very much appreciated. I'd hate to buy a Scorpio or a PS5 only to lose access to all my games once again. That's just a stupid thing for consumers and it's a stupid thing for developers, since now the games are just taken off the market and some of you are then happy to buy a 'remaster' (which more often than not is the same exact game only with the native resolution cranked up) again - How is this better than new consoles not making this crappy cut, especially since they're all - similar to the PC - using the same architecture now anyway?

I understand your folks point about new gen begins with a new baseline, but why do we have to think that way at this point in the game? Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.

Are there any next-gen games out there that purely in terms of gameplay couldn't have been done on a last-gen console? I have a hard time coming up with any. Devs will just have to treat consoles like PCs, having multiple hardware configurations that they'll adjust their games to. Having to make this distinction between 'cross-gen games' or 'well, those were DIFFERENT games cause they were shipped for different boxes is just really bogus. Wouldn't you have preferred to buy Titanfall ONCE and then being able to play it on your 360, PC, Xbox One - Instead of having to buy a separate version? That's EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing here. You buy a game for the Xbox Platform, which means you'll be able to play it on any of the Microsoft platforms.

And I'm sure at some point - simply due to the nature of technology - older hardware won't be able to run the newest games. But that doesn't have to happen now. Current gen boxes still have plenty of power and if for the next few years I'm able to play games in HD/30 on current gen and 4k/60 on next-gen, I'm fine with that.
.... No one was talking about future consoles not having BC.
 

Con Con

Member
Nov 13, 2014
92
0
0
The Xbox is slowly becoming a living room PC, and that's fine. Scorpio is backwards compatible with Xbox One games, and for a while games released on Scorpio will run on Xbox One just like cross-gen titles at the start of every generation.

However, one day I think games will only run on the Scorpio. The way Microsoft chooses to officially name the Scorpio will be telling.
 

Dosia

Member
Aug 21, 2008
1,907
0
0
Good to hear. This time I will wait though for the price cut. Probably for the gears 5 bundles.
 

notaskwid

Member
Oct 20, 2015
6,460
8
375
Osaka
I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop arguing semantics. I think it's pretty clear where things are heading - Here's my prediction: When Sony announces their PS5 (which will probably happen after Scorpio releases), you'll hear that it'll also be compatible to your entire PS4 library (since it's - like the PS4Pro - going to be another hardware upgrade based on the same architecture). You'll also see games that are going to be announced that will not be exclusive only to the PS5, since it just hurts developers. A new console comes out and we go from a hardware platform that has 50 or so million installed units to, say, 5. So automatically, I would reach a MUCH smaller audience. So a lot of games will still be 'forward-compatible' - whether Sony forces that or not will be up to them.

I'm always a bit baffled that simply because the X360 / PS3 generation lasted for 8 years, people now think that's the norm. Hardware generations never lasted that long before. It's always been around 5 or so years, sometimes less.

On Microsofts side, I think they see a lot of power in giving players a huge variety of games - which is why the Xbox360 BC stuff now allows you to play hundreds of 360 games on your Xbox One. Being able to buy a new box and having access to a ton of older games mixed in with the new ones is a good thing. If I buy a new PC, I love looking at what my new hardware did to games I played before, it's great.

Looking forward, I very much doubt that any hardware manufacturer will make another super drastic cut like what we've seen before. That's partly the reason why they're all using an x86 base. It's just not necessary anymore and it hurts the entire industry every time with publishers not willing to spend high double-digit million USD on a next-gen game that has an installed base of 5 million units or so. We've already seen that hitting hard this gen and looking forward, hardware upgrades are going to be more gradual and happen more often. Sony dipped their feet into the water with the PS4Pro and Microsoft aims for a bigger splash with Scorpio, but the idea here is that the platform and the games available for those platforms are what's important, not the box itself. The box is just your access point and you'll be able to pick which box you buy based on your requirements.

You see people complaining all the time about lack of resolution or framerate for various games. The idea is to give people choice - if you're a hardcore gamer and you want your 60fps, you should be able to get a box that suits your needs. Right now console-manufacturers lose gamers to the PC because of that reason and in the future, you'll just get more choice.
You're still not addressing why the PS4pro is half assed and not a new generation as opposed to Scorpio when the concept is exactly the one you are presenting.
 

Fisty

Member
Jun 26, 2014
7,431
5
340
I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop arguing semantics. I think it's pretty clear where things are heading - Here's my prediction: When Sony announces their PS5 (which will probably happen after Scorpio releases), you'll hear that it'll also be compatible to your entire PS4 library (since it's - like the PS4Pro - going to be another hardware upgrade based on the same architecture). You'll also see games that are going to be announced that will not be exclusive only to the PS5, since it just hurts developers. A new console comes out and we go from a hardware platform that has 50 or so million installed units to, say, 5. So automatically, I would reach a MUCH smaller audience. So a lot of games will still be 'forward-compatible' - whether Sony forces that or not will be up to them.

I'm always a bit baffled that simply because the X360 / PS3 generation lasted for 8 years, people now think that's the norm. Hardware generations never lasted that long before. It's always been around 5 or so years, sometimes less.

On Microsofts side, I think they see a lot of power in giving players a huge variety of games - which is why the Xbox360 BC stuff now allows you to play hundreds of 360 games on your Xbox One. Being able to buy a new box and having access to a ton of older games mixed in with the new ones is a good thing. If I buy a new PC, I love looking at what my new hardware did to games I played before, it's great.

Looking forward, I very much doubt that any hardware manufacturer will make another super drastic cut like what we've seen before. That's partly the reason why they're all using an x86 base. It's just not necessary anymore and it hurts the entire industry every time with publishers not willing to spend high double-digit million USD on a next-gen game that has an installed base of 5 million units or so. We've already seen that hitting hard this gen and looking forward, hardware upgrades are going to be more gradual and happen more often. Sony dipped their feet into the water with the PS4Pro and Microsoft aims for a bigger splash with Scorpio, but the idea here is that the platform and the games available for those platforms are what's important, not the box itself. The box is just your access point and you'll be able to pick which box you buy based on your requirements.

You see people complaining all the time about lack of resolution or framerate for various games. The idea is to give people choice - if you're a hardcore gamer and you want your 60fps, you should be able to get a box that suits your needs. Right now console-manufacturers lose gamers to the PC because of that reason and in the future, you'll just get more choice.
Do you think PS4 Slim will play PS5 games? That's where things will be differentiated imo, I don't think Sony will do that. Indies and smaller games can still be released on PS4 and still be sold to PS4 and PS5 customers, but PS5 will have plenty of exclusives. Will Scorpio?
 
Jul 21, 2015
2,143
0
0
And you think growing digital libraries don't change the attitude for many people?
But ok Sony, don't care about bc with PS5, let people rebuy remasters or ports of old games, worked also this gen.
I didn't say Sony or Ms didn't care or wouldn't include backwards compatibility into the PS5 or next Xbox. My rebuttal was to the stupidity that Sony would face as big as backlash as the OG Xbox one / drm plan.

Digital will continue you grow by 2019/2020 , so I will agree it would be foolish for either MS or Sony to not include backwards compatibility. But if they don't the general public still likely won't give a shit.
 

lukeskymac

Member
Jun 3, 2014
3,557
0
0
São Leopoldo, RS, Brasil
$Hat. Console gens these days are pushing competent people to just stick with PC and whatever Nintendo has to offer since they aren't simply a seriously crippled PC that is locked down more than an Apple product.
Since when aren't Nintendo consoles "simply seriously crippled PCs that are locked down more than an Apple product?" You should just stick to PC only then.

... if you want to miss every GOTY of the gen, I mean.
 

otakukidd

Member
Nov 4, 2013
844
0
0
I swear you just say the most outlandish shit for attention

The general public didn't give a shit when there was no backwards compatibility on either console at launch and they aren't gonna care in 2019/2020.
My take on it is they won't care if both do it cause what are you going to do. They will care if o only one does it.
 

EventHorizon

Member
Jul 15, 2013
3,649
250
565
Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.
PCs pay a penalty for supporting multiple hardware configurations with increased overhead. Consoles get more bang for the buck on equivalent hardware because they don't have to deal with that overhead. That is what allows consoles to be cheaper than equivalent PCs. PCs have greater forward and backward compatibility than consoles, but PC owners pay extra money for that capability. It's a tradeoff that you are not acknowledging exists.
 

Gothos

Member
Sep 10, 2013
2,462
0
365
Poland
Scorpio seems quite enticing but I still need more interesting 1st party games to justify buying it. Forza is not enough :(