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[EventHorizon]

Just to chime in, Forward-compatibility will be so confusing if it worked only for a certain amount of generations i.e. PS5 will be forward-compatible for the next 2 systems, etc. Then you run the risk of not everything on PS7 or 8 needs that much power to run them.

Will be very confusing. I doubt forward-compatibility with be a thing. They're just trying to ease out consumers into a new Xbox without saying it's a new generation.

If it were a new generation, why don't they just say it is? Just say it's the next Xbox system, period.

PC games have minimum specs now without problems. Why would consoles be different? It'd be easier for consoles because they wouldn't have to go down to the spec level. They could just list the supported models since there would be so few of them.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they handle it.

Again, the PC world does this. You just print the specs on the box. At some point in the future (Like when the Scorpio 4 comes out) the box may say: A Scorpio 1 or greater is required to run this game.

Yeah, I don't see what's confusing about it. It's not like people have to look at specs. They just need to know the name of their console.

 

[Omotesando]

I agree. It will be interesting to see how they handle it.

Again, the PC world does this. You just print the specs on the box. At some point in the future (Like when the Scorpio 4 comes out) the box may say: A Scorpio 1 or greater is required to run this game.

As an avid gamer, I have blown up PC's with some games.

Hehe, it is going to be fun when some Scorpio 3,0 game blows up a Scorpio 1.0 machine.

With PC's you can't point the finger, with this forward compatibility shenanigans MS is going to have to deal with it.

 

[EventHorizon]

As an avid gamer, I have blown up PC's with some games.

Hehe, it is going to be fun when some Scorpio 3,0 game blows up a Scorpio 1.0 machine.

With PC's you can't point the finger, with this forward compatibility shenanigans MS is going to have to deal with it.

Consoles are a controlled system. If the console didn't meet the minimum specs to run a game, it wouldn't run the game.

 

[wapplew]

Why would Scorpio 2 be at a disadvantage to PS5 if it ran Scorpio 1 games or the same game that ran on Scorpio1 runs on Scorpio 2 better?

What don't people get here? The Xbox One is basically a PC running Windows. It will be upgraded just like a PC. A game that runs on the Xbox One will run better on a Scorpio and even better on a Scorpio 2. Just like Diablo 3 runs OK on my laptop with built in graphics, but runs WAY better on my gaming rig. (Use any game you want as an example here, I just picked Diablo 3) The same with ANY OTHER PC game.

How will a PS5 that does not run PS4 games be at an advantage? If anything, I think something like that will be at a dis-advantage.

You don't see the advantage of a console have shinny tailor made exclusive over the other who don't? If we assume both have full BC.
You don't see the advantage of next gen exclusive over a cross gen remaster?

 

[Pancake Mix]

Umm... Halo, Halo Wars, Gears of War, Forza Horizon, Sea of Theaves, Crackdown.... What do you mean they don't have any more console exclusives???

I meant exclusives.

The term "console exclusive" for non-exclusives is annoying. Nobody used it until a few years ago. It's not an exclusive.

 

[Bsigg12]

I meant exclusives.

The term "console exclusive" for non-exclusives is annoying. Nobody used it until a few years ago. It's not an exclusive.

The fact is Microsoft has blurred that and the Xbox platform extends to PC now. It's exclusively on the Xbox platform which includes Xbox consoles and Windows 10.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

And MS and Sony are doing their darndest to change that. Paid online, forced installs, long download times, mid gen upgrades, ECT. All of these factors will push people away from consoles and into Valve's arms. Not everyone, but a lot of people.

Sony and MS have stated in interviews that their goal is to compete with PCs. They can't. Consoles have the convenience that PCs never will, yet MS and Sony don't try to emphasize this. It will bite them in the ass sooner or later.

Most of this stuff is not any better on PC.

 

[base shagohod]

Am I the only who feels like the distinction is pretty much arbitrary at this point?

Nope. I gotchu

Lol, maybe instead of getting all worked up we should wait for actual information directly from MS..

This is GAF. Everyone is perpetually worked up 😂

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I meant exclusives.

The term "console exclusive" for non-exclusives is annoying. Nobody used it until a few years ago. It's not an exclusive.

Not true. The term has been used for years. At least since early 7th gen.

 

[Maintenance]

A person would need to spend AT LEAST $1000 for a PC capable of playing the games.

Oh my gosh. Rolls Eyes. I have an Alienware

 

[messiaen]

Answer the question I posed. Which console do you think the general public finds more compelling?

Choice #1: $399 1TB PlayStation Pro
Choice #2: $399 2TB Xbox One S​

The general public will have a very easy choice here considering one of these choices was limited edition and isn't for sale anymore.

 

[amstradcpc]

True next gen starts when 7nm is ready.
Then you can pack a 12 Tflops Vega GPU,an 8 core zen and 16 GBs of HBM2 memory with 512 GB/s of bandwidth in a 150 watts TDP SOC.
That will be PS5 more or less.If 7nm is ready next year Sony could perfectly announce PS5 this year and repeat what PS2 made to Dreamcast.

 

[Fredrik]

But you can't play PS3 games on a PS2. You can play "scorpio" games on an XB1.

If it's anything like PS4/Pro they'll just ship two versions on the same disc, the Pro versions are exclusive to Pro and could've been sold on separate discs just like the HD remasters.

 

[Fredrik]

If 7nm is ready next year Sony could perfectly announce PS5 this year and repeat what PS2 made to Dreamcast.

That would be a PR suicide, people have barely even accepted the short lifespan of OG PS4. :/

 

[EventHorizon]

The general public will have a very easy choice here considering one of these choices was limited edition and isn't for sale anymore.

The only 5 month old Amazon Choice Xbox One S 2TB begs to differ. As I previously pointed out, a $399 2TB version of the base console would be the high end model we would expect if this were a normal generation. I mentioned the 2TB XB1 S to prove that point. If Microsoft had to discontinue the 2TB version because it couldn't compete with the Pro, that would be pretty good proof that the Pro was a success.

 

[Crayon]

Ps2 didn't do anything to Dreamcast.

 

[A.Romero]

If that's the case wouldn't there be a risk that Scorpio games don't play on Xbox One S?

That's the true difference between a new generation and a specs upgrade.

 

[Fisty]

Ps2 didn't do anything to Dreamcast.

Just like the PS1 didn't do anything to Saturn

 

[4Tran]

That would be a PR suicide, people have barely even accepted the short lifespan of OG PS4. :/

It would be less a matter of suicide and more a matter of being pointless. The biggest revenue generators at this point are going to be the SKUs that hit mass market prices - around $200 or so. What happens at the $4-500 price point isn't really all that important so there's little reason to fight in that arena unless you're already tapped out at the lower prices. This will only be further emphasized when you take into account software development cycles.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Dude sounds like a console wars fanboy stating shit like this.

How can PS4 Pro be a "half ass" upgrade and the Scorpio a completely new gen when both of them are doing similar things and have similar capabilities? It's not like the Scorpio will be coming with the power of a Nvidia Titan X or something.

 

[EventHorizon]

That would be a PR suicide, people have barely even accepted the short lifespan of OG PS4. :/

Not only would it be PR suicide, it simply would make no sense. This looks to be the best software year yet for the PS4, along with some great marketing deals with the biggests games. In short, the PS4 should sell like mad this year. If Sony came out with a PS5 next year, there would be very little, if any, software that would make use of it.

Why would publishers spend more resources to make a game to take full advantage of a PS5 when the PS4 just had its best year yet, and whose install base absolutely would dwarf any potential one a PS5 could get? Publishers support the next generation only when the current one ceases to make them money. They aren't eager to jump to new tech. They are dragged kicking and screaming to it out of necessity.

That is why it was absolutely essential that the PS4 Pro be as compatible with base PS4 as possible. As we've seen, publishers will use the power of the new consoles to brute force simple game improvements like increased resolution, but that's about it. Only the bare minimum is being done to support the Pro, so Sony had to make sure that that bare minimum would give the biggest bang for the buck. The greater the difference between the Pro and the base PS4, the less that would be.

 

[Head.spawn]

How in the world do you come up with $100 max? Don't try to do that slight of hand where you substitute a user built PC with a semi legit copy of Windows. The PS4 is a turnkey system. Find me a prebuilt PC for $399 in a similar form factor as a PS4, and then you can talk.

How is user-built considered slight of hand? It's simply a consumer option. Also, I made no mention of pre-built or form factor, those goalposts have no place in what I said. Goalposts aside, the build is doable for about $400, easily.

i3-6100 + RX460 + SteamOS and you're on the right path.

You have the caveat about form factor, turn-key and prebuilt, but make no mention about the limitations of a console in comparison to a PC. We could throw in the particulars that favor PC that are impossible on console, but that'd be shifting what I initially said as well. In all honesty, I'm just glad you didn't throw in "but you gotta buy a monitor", that normally gets tossed in, lol.

 

[amstradcpc]

Not only would it be PR suicide, it simply would make no sense. This looks to be the best software year yet for the PS4, along with some great marketing deals with the biggests games. In short, the PS4 should sell like mad this year. If Sony came out with a PS5 next year, there would be very little, if any, software that would make use of it.

Why would publishers spend more resources to make a game to take full advantage of a PS5 when the PS4 just had its best year yet, and whose install base absolutely would dwarf any potential one a PS5 could get? Publishers support the next generation only when the current one ceases to make them money. They aren't eager to jump to new tech. They are dragged kicking and screaming to it out of necessity.

That is why it was absolutely essential that the PS4 Pro be as compatible with base PS4 as possible. As we've seen, publishers will use the power of the new consoles to brute force simple game improvements like increased resolution, but that's about it. Only the bare minimum is being done to support the Pro, so Sony had to make sure that that bare minimum would give the biggest bang for the buck. The greater the difference between the Pro and the base PS4, the less that would be.

You guys forget both Sony and MS consoles division first strategic objetive is being the only player in the living room.

 

[LelouchZero]

Since when aren't Nintendo consoles "simply seriously crippled PCs that are locked down more than an Apple product?" You should just stick to PC only then.

... if you want to miss every GOTY of the gen, I mean.

Because no game that has released on PC has ever gotten a GOTY right?

 

[notaskwid]

Because no game that has released on PC has ever gotten a GOTY right?

Only going by Gaf's gotys, half the time they seem to be platform exclusive at launch time.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

You guys forget both Sony and MS consoles division first strategic objetive is being the only player in the living room.

That is a dead dream .
Also sure MS and Sony have more to worry about than that .

 

[Herp Derpington]

The only 5 month old Amazon Choice Xbox One S 2TB begs to differ. As I previously pointed out, a $399 2TB version of the base console would be the high end model we would expect if this were a normal generation. I mentioned the 2TB XB1 S to prove that point. If Microsoft had to discontinue the 2TB version because it couldn't compete with the Pro, that would be pretty good proof that the Pro was a success.

What are you trying to prove with that Amazon post?

Not only would it be PR suicide, it simply would make no sense. This looks to be the best software year yet for the PS4, along with some great marketing deals with the biggests games. In short, the PS4 should sell like mad this year. If Sony came out with a PS5 next year, there would be very little, if any, software that would make use of it.

Why would publishers spend more resources to make a game to take full advantage of a PS5 when the PS4 just had its best year yet, and whose install base absolutely would dwarf any potential one a PS5 could get? Publishers support the next generation only when the current one ceases to make them money. They aren't eager to jump to new tech. They are dragged kicking and screaming to it out of necessity.

That is why it was absolutely essential that the PS4 Pro be as compatible with base PS4 as possible. As we've seen, publishers will use the power of the new consoles to brute force simple game improvements like increased resolution, but that's about it. Only the bare minimum is being done to support the Pro, so Sony had to make sure that that bare minimum would give the biggest bang for the buck. The greater the difference between the Pro and the base PS4, the less that would be.

How is it you can take any topic about Xbox and flip it to being a full blown PS4 post? I mean I'm seriously impressed.

 

[LelouchZero]

Only going by Gaf's gotys, half the time they seem to be platform exclusive at launch time.

Oh I see.

PCs pay a penalty for supporting multiple hardware configurations with increased overhead. Consoles get more bang for the buck on equivalent hardware because they don't have to deal with that overhead. That is what allows consoles to be cheaper than equivalent PCs. PCs have greater forward and backward compatibility than consoles, but PC owners pay extra money for that capability. It's a tradeoff that you are not acknowledging exists.

That's not really what allows consoles to be sometimes cheaper than equivalent PCs, compatibility isn't really a factor of the costs. It's mostly the hardware you're paying for.

One of the things that allows them to be cheaper in some cases is that Sony and Microsoft pick the hardware configurations out and deal with the costs associated with producing the console, this sometimes consists of eating the costs and taking losses or a reduction in profits in some cases to bring the console to market at a certain price point that may be lower that the cost of an similarly spec'd PC. Then they make profits in other areas such as software and peripherals.

 

[Theorry]

Gamespot going for the clicks haha.

GameSpot ‏@gamespot
Shots... fired. 💥 Project Scorpio dev calls PS4 Pro "Half-assed".

What went down: http://l.gamespot.com/60138RsTB

https://twitter.com/gamespot/status/824361234803855361

 

[EventHorizon]

How is user-built considered slight of hand? It's simply a consumer option. Also, I made no mention of pre-built or form factor, those goalposts have no place in what I said. Goalposts aside, the build is doable for about $400, easily.

i3-6100 + RX460 + SteamOS and you're on the right path.

You have the caveat about form factor, turn-key and prebuilt, but make no mention about the limitations of a console in comparison to a PC. We could throw in the particulars that favor PC that are impossible on console, but that'd be shifting what I initially said as well. In all honesty, I'm just glad you didn't throw in "but you gotta buy a monitor", that normally gets tossed in, lol.

It is fantasy to think the general public is going to start building their own PCs. People couldn't program their VCRs. If you want to compare PCs to consoles you have to do so with a real PC product that could sell like consoles. Comparing it to some mythical home built PC that the vast majority of consumers will never own is pointless.

The following is in the ballpark of what the typical console owner would consider equivalent although the form factor is off. It's a prebuilt product that they can easily order. It just so happens be on sale for $399 and is below the minimum specs for Battlefield 1.

Seriously, what in the world would a console gamer do with a "i3-6100 + RX460 + SteamOS"? Can they order that up from Amazon and immediately hook it up to their TV? Can they play Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, or Resident Evil 7 on it? You might as well be saying that a Tivo is on the right path to replacing a console. The Tivo is at least a consumer product, so it's a better substitute for a console than a "i3-6100 + RX460 + SteamOS".

You want to bring in limitations, but you seem to miss the biggest limitation of a "i3-6100 + RX460 + SteamOS". That limitation is that for the average potential gamer consumer, it would have about as much usefulness as a boat in a desert.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Gamespot going for the clicks haha.

GameSpot ‏@gamespot
Shots... fired. 💥 Project Scorpio dev calls PS4 Pro "Half-assed".

What went down: http://l.gamespot.com/60138RsTB

https://twitter.com/gamespot/status/824361234803855361

Well that's some sensationalist reporting from Gamespot. LOL

 

[RoKKeR]

That Gamespot headline is embarassing.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/824363834806857728

 

[Chobel]

Gamespot going for the clicks haha.

GameSpot ‏@gamespot
Shots... fired. 💥 Project Scorpio dev calls PS4 Pro "Half-assed".

What went down: http://l.gamespot.com/60138RsTB

https://twitter.com/gamespot/status/824361234803855361

Now this is a good journalism.

 

[Caayn]

The responses in this thread, and now Gamespot jumping on board, makes me understood more why game devs choose to stay mostly silent and refrain from partaking in most discussions.

Their words will be torn to shreds and people will read too much into each single word, it's kinda insane.

Edit: It's funny to see that on top of it all, this somehow spawned the (beaten to death) PC vs console price debate.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Now this is a good journalism.

 

[Anticol]

Why are people surprised? He DID call it half-assed, he should've known better.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

But they would be in the very small minority is all I'm saying. No one should act like the the general gaming public or casuals care UHD and there are many reasons why.

My personal opinion is Sony wanted to keep the price low on the Pro and not cannibalize it's UHD standalone sales.




If you post silly nonsense don't be mad when you get called out

Same goes for you too statham jr

😉

Having caught up on posts, you're making a common logical fallacy that comes up with products. You're thinking that a good metric for whether consumers like a feature is to check whether they use that feature.

This isn't the case (unintuitive as that is). Remember that most people who buy a game never finish it. Do you think that means games should just ship without the final chapters? Of course not. Everyone wants a complete game when they buy it, even though they'll likely never see that content.

BC is absolutely one of those features. People think "I could play my old games on it!" and while it's only about half that do, the other half are content with the knowledge that they could if they wanted to.

For other industries, see the number of books people own versus how many they actually read.

 

[Head.spawn]

I think I was replying to a joke poster.

That'll be the last time.

 

[viHuGi]

Dude sounds like a console wars fanboy stating shit like this.

How can PS4 Pro be a "half ass" upgrade and the Scorpio a completely new gen when both of them are doing similar things and have similar capabilities? It's not like the Scorpio will be coming with the power of a Nvidia Titan X or something.

Ori dev aka Microsoft dev.

 

[EventHorizon]

You guys forget both Sony and MS consoles division first strategic objetive is being the only player in the living room.

That doesn't change the discussion one bit. How would Sony releasing a product that had no software support and diverted resources away from their console that is about to have its best years going to help them be "the only player in the living room"?

What are you trying to prove with that Amazon post?

The comment I replied to said you couldn't buy a 2TB Xbox One S. I showed that you easily could. Exactly what was the hard to understand part?

How is it you can take any topic about Xbox and flip it to being a full blown PS4 post? I mean I'm seriously impressed.

<Insult that the better angels of my nature caused me to delete>

That's not really what allows consoles to be sometimes cheaper than equivalent PCs, compatibility isn't really a factor of the costs. It's mostly the hardware you're paying for.

One of the things that allows them to be cheaper in some cases is that Sony and Microsoft pick the hardware configurations out and deal with the costs associated with producing the console, this sometimes consists of eating the costs and taking losses or a reduction in profits in some cases to bring the console to market at a certain price point that may be lower that the cost of an similarly spec'd PC. Then they make profits in other areas such as software and peripherals.

That use to be the case. This generation consoles weren't subsidized. Well at least not to any great extent.

You are correct that there are other factors that reduced console's costs, such as realizing the economies of scale by mass producing a standardized product, but what I said is still true. It is simply a fact that the abstraction layer need for PCs to function provides far more overhead than that for consoles. If consoles had to account for that extra inefficiency, they would cost more.

You can't sing the praises of PCs supporting many hardware configurations without also mentioning the drawbacks for doing so. If consoles were to start acting more like PCs when it comes to compatibility, then they would also have to inherit the drawbacks that come with it. People in this thread were only giving only side of that equation.

 

[Hoo-doo]

This is the superior version of that image:

You couldn't be more wrong. There's nothing worse than the four-panel picture comic with dumb facial expressions.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Ori dev aka Microsoft dev.

Ah, it all makes sense now.

 

[Jacksinthe]

That is a dead dream .
Also sure MS and Sony have more to worry about than that .

Not true, from what I see.

Not a whole lot of people will pay for both online services. Forward/Backwards compatability is a thing we can see moving forward. Iterative consoles keep people locked into an ecosystem.

That's the point. That's why there has been a shift in strategy. You're not just buying for a box, you are buying for a platform. Moving forward, the average consumer will not see a need for multiple boxes to take care of things the one ecosystem they've been investing into for years already does.

I would venture a guess you won't see a living room with multiple TVs all largely the same all playing the same content because it's redundant. Sony and MS are trying to move on the ecosystem making other boxes seem redundant in the same way.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

You couldn't be more wrong. There's nothing worse than the four-panel picture comic with dumb facial expressions.

this is the good one

 

[Fredrik]

Ori dev aka Microsoft dev.

Is Moon Studios a MS 1st party developer? I thought Microsoft was just publishing one of their games, kind of like Insomniac on Sunset Overdrive.

 

[Fisty]

Is Moon Studios a MS 1st party developer? I thought Microsoft was just publishing one of their games, kind of like Insomniac on Sunset Overdrive.

IIRC I think MS owns the Ori IP, so I think that would make Moon a second party in this case? Not sure exactly, but Moon is being employed by MS to make the game, in one fashion or another

 

[messiaen]

The only 5 month old Amazon Choice Xbox One S 2TB begs to differ. As I previously pointed out, a $399 2TB version of the base console would be the high end model we would expect if this were a normal generation. I mentioned the 2TB XB1 S to prove that point. If Microsoft had to discontinue the 2TB version because it couldn't compete with the Pro, that would be pretty good proof that the Pro was a success.

That's not being sold by Amazon? It's fulfilled by a partner. This isn't available at Best Buy, Target or any other retailer as far as I can tell. You're really reaching. Microsoft said from the launch of the XB1 S that the 2TB varient was a limited edition.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-confirms-2-tb-xbox-one-s-launch-model-is/1100-6442479/

Date August 9th, a month before the Pro was even announced.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Gamespot going for the clicks haha.

GameSpot &#8207;@gamespot
Shots... fired. &#128165; Project Scorpio dev calls PS4 Pro "Half-assed".

What went down: http://l.gamespot.com/60138RsTB

https://twitter.com/gamespot/status/824361234803855361

I can't believe this guy is a CEO/game director

 

[N.Domixis]

Based on this maybe that's why Sony has all the third part marketing deals. They may look better on Xbox one Scorpio but cheap bundles will move like crazy this holiday. It's the only way to compete until ps5.