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NERD behind Nintendo Classic Mini: NES emulation (i.e. it's not the Wii U emulator)

Link_enfant

Link_enfant

Member
TheMoon said:
NERD does not do game development.



That was already confirmed.
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Wow, glad to know that. Looks like it'll definitely be better than Wii U VC.
Also I mentioned resolution but it'd be more accurate to talk about the ratio on HD/4K TVs.
By the way, SNES displays a 8/7 image, but what about NES? 256x240 seems like a 10/9 ratio but I can't find the exact value.
 
L

LewieP

Member
Link_enfant said:
Wow, glad to know that. Looks like it'll definitely be better than Wii U VC.
Also I mentioned resolution but it'd be more accurate to talk about the ratio on HD/4K TVs.
By the way, SNES displays a 8/7 image, but what about NES? 256x240 seems like a 10/9 ratio but I can't find the exact value.
Click to expand...

Discussing NES aspect ratios is opening a can of worms.

The simple answer is that it varies somewhat from game to game.
 
P

PtM

Banned
MacTag said:
I thought there were hints discovered in the code but now I can't any sources so idk. Although they did do all previous N64 emultion on GC/Wii so it's a solid guess.
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Why would they add the same dark filter as NES emulation?
 
K

Koren

Member
Pokemaniac said:
There is definitely a post-processing filter. The image isn't just darkened, they applied smoothing to it.
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I don't doubt there's a post-processing filter, I'm just wondering why they would change the color at post-processing instead of during rendering.
 
K

Kiddy Dong

Member
This bodes well for consumers, although I don't think we are exempt from the dark filter if it's mandated by Nintendo for NES titles. Wasn't it discovered that the dark filters on Wii U VC were just toggleable post processing attributes? Who in their right minds would think that having that on would result in a better image. Nintendo must have specified that in their design documents, for reasons unkown.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Kiddy Dong said:
This bodes well for consumers, although I don't think we are exempt from the dark filter if it's mandated by Nintendo for NES titles. Wasn't it discovered that the dark filters on Wii U VC were just toggleable post processing attributes? Who in their right minds would think that having that on would result in a better image. Nintendo must have specified that in their design documents, for reasons unkown.
Click to expand...

No one... There is certainly another reason why it was enabled.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
Kiddy Dong said:
This bodes well for consumers, although I don't think we are exempt from the dark filter if it's mandated by Nintendo for NES titles. Wasn't it discovered that the dark filters on Wii U VC were just toggleable post processing attributes? Who in their right minds would think that having that on would result in a better image. Nintendo must have specified that in their design documents, for reasons unkown.
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If it is mandated by Nintendo explain NES remix then? That has no dark filters (though does still suffer input lag) well outside of some remix challenges :p
 
theclaw135

theclaw135

Banned
Peltz said:
If you thought this was clone hardware, I don't really know what to say. That would make no sense and be prohibitively expensive for Nintendo's target audience with this device.

Edit: DP
Click to expand...

It's better than jumping to conclusions. I'd rather be optimistic about the possibility of clone hardware.

NoFaceNico said:
Not really. Companies can steal all they want because the Free Software Foundation refuses to go after anyone nor will they honor any open source licenses that tack on anti-commercialization requirements because they say it violates the definition of what open source is.

Back when Hyperkin stole all those emulators for the Retron 5, the FSF did nothing. By their rules, if you label anything "open source" that means it is open source with no other requirements, period. So all those GPL licenses that prohibit their software from being used in a commercial distribution shouldn't be enforced because true open source would have none of those prohibitions.

Yes there are anti-Tivoization case law out there but it doesn't mean jack shit if the main proponents behind the open source movement don't protect the people developing the software. So companies should steal all they want, no one's going to ever go after them.
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The FSF isn't responsible for enforcing licenses they didn't create or otherwise endorse. Least of all when they are not involved with the software in question, and have no rightful copyright claim to make.

Commercial distribution of binaries is fine. When a program is open source, one can acquire and compile the source code on their own, or get a binary from somebody else.

You're right about Tivoivation. Legal or not, it goes against the philosophy the free software movement should be standing for.
 
D

DownGrader

Member
Koren said:
Not that important, but is this really a post-processing filter?
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Yes, at least for N64 Wii U emulation. When you open Virtual Console Menu, you can see that the savestate thumbnail is far brighter and more natural than the output image of the actual game.
 
R

ramparter

Banned
Emulator? I honestly though this woould be close to native nes hardware. But I guess it was pretty ignorant of me to think they would order the manufacturing of 30 years old tech.
 
L

Lupin the Third

Member
ramparter said:
Emulator? I honestly though this woould be close to native nes hardware. But I guess it was pretty ignorant of me to think they would order the manufacturing of 30 years old tech.
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And legally include 30 mostly quality games, several sublicensed, with HDMI output (aren't all known HDMI NES solutions well over $100 minimum?) plus a replica controller, all for $60 US a pop? Impossible, I'm afraid...at least not without taking a big hit on each unit sold.
 
R

Rich!

Member
Guess Who said:
Where did this "emulator = input lag" idea come from? I've been seeing it around a lot lately.
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It came from the fact that emulators have input lag. There's no debate to be had on that, it's a hard fact.

The amount of input lag depends on the emulator but simply by way of how they operate, it's unavoidable.
 
L

Lupin the Third

Member
Rich! said:
It came from the fact that emulators have input lag. There's no debate to be had on that, it's a hard fact.

The amount of input lag depends on the emulator but simply by way of how they operate, it's unavoidable.
Click to expand...

Can you find me more info on this? This general emulation wiki page mentions a few factors but they're pretty much all external (wireless controllers, modern TVs, GPU drivers): http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/Input_lag
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Rich! said:
It came from the fact that emulators have input lag. There's no debate to be had on that, it's a hard fact.

The amount of input lag depends on the emulator but simply by way of how they operate, it's unavoidable.
Click to expand...

Emulators merely run code, same as native software. If an emulator is slow, it'll have input lag. If it's fast, there is no guarantee of any lag.

It's not going to take even a modest piece of hardware 16ms (1/60th of a second) to emulate and render one frame of nes gameplay if it's programmed well.

I'd be much more worried about the average hdtv that'll be used with this hardware.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Lupin the Third said:
Can you find me more info on this? This general emulation wiki page mentions a few factors but they're pretty much all external (wireless controllers, modern TVs, GPU drivers): http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/Input_lag
Click to expand...

Byuu (a poster on NeoGAF who developed the cycle accurate emulator Higan for SNES) posted this article a few weeks ago on emulator latency and the various sources they come from. It's very detailed and I fully recommend reading it!

It really is beyond most detailed wiki and forum responses from the king of emulation.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Volotaire said:
Byuu (a poster on NeoGAF who developed the cycle accurate emulator Higan for SNES) posted this article a few weeks ago on emulator latency and the various sources they come from. It's very detailed and I fully recommend reading it!

It really is beyond most detailed wiki and forum responses from the king of emulation.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. As I said, most of this doesn't apply in this situation since it's dedicated hardware/software, lag is possible of course, but no guarantee.
 
G

Guess Who

Banned
KojiKnight said:
Thank you for posting this. As I said, most of this doesn't apply in this situation since it's dedicated hardware/software, lag is possible of course, but no guarantee.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing - many emulators have input lag, but the vast majority of that is down to factors outside the emulator itself, and it's entirely possible to make a (practically) lag-free emulator when you control the entire software and hardware stack as Nintendo does in this situation. Not to say they will, but they can. I've seen NES emulation get down to one-frame responsiveness.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
This project began at NERD in France, and we thought that if we were going to release it, it might be a good idea to recreate the appearance of the NES as a perk for fans.
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When a sample of the Classic Mini NES was ready, the sales team in Japan saw it and voiced their desire for a mini Famicom as well.
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http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2016...l-interview-Volume-1-Donkey-Kong-1152552.html

That's quite an interesting development for Nintendo. The project did indeed start out at NERD.
 
S

SURGEdude

Member
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
 
N

Neptonic

Member
SURGEdude said:
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
Click to expand...
I couldn't really tell anything that stood out to me about the browser other than it was easy to use and type with due to the touch screen. Works well, never really had an issue with it.
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

Member
SURGEdude said:
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
Click to expand...

The Wii U browser is the best console browser out there. Seriously, wipes the floor with anything else.
 
S

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
SURGEdude said:
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
Click to expand...

The Browser is awesome and using it for youtube and other stuff is just great.
 
O

OnionPowder

Member
SURGEdude said:
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
Click to expand...

I used to use it a lot. It's pretty great for browsing reddit with a group as you can browse the comments on the Wii U gamepad while the picture or video link shows up on the TV.
 
JB2448

JB2448

Member
http://www.nerd.nintendo.com/
Nintendo European Research & Development said:
November 11th 2016
Nintendo releases the Nintendo Classic Mini: Nintendo Entertainment System
The NES and some of its best games will be back in your living room!
As one of the main contributors to the software that made this possible, NERD hopes that fans of all generations will enjoy the experience!
Click to expand...
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
SURGEdude said:
I see lots of posts talking about the Wii U browser being awesome. What's that about? I never really used it because I assumed it sucked. The specs page doesn't shed a ton of light either.

If I'm wrong I might find another use for it in the future.
Click to expand...

Even though the other consoles may surpass it in terms of standards support and raw hardware power, the Gamepad is the perfect controller for actually using a web browser on a console, and enables things like the amazing video player. Combined with the software and hardware being good enough to browse a decent portion of the modern web (and the ability to open PDFs, not sure if the other consoles can do that), the browser manages to stand out despite its shortcomings.
 
C

calc84maniac

Member
Volotaire said:
Byuu (a poster on NeoGAF who developed the cycle accurate emulator Higan for SNES) posted this article a few weeks ago on emulator latency and the various sources they come from. It's very detailed and I fully recommend reading it!

It really is beyond most detailed wiki and forum responses from the king of emulation.
Click to expand...
Interesting, it seems a large number of the latency issues are due to indirection from modern general-purpose operating systems.

I think with a custom platform like this that has direct hardware access, many of those issues could be mitigated.
 
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