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New 4K-Capable PS4 And Xbox One Consoles Coming This Year, Predicts Netflix

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Durante

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HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are two different things. HDMI is the video output, HDCP is content protection. HDCP 2.2 in hardware is what Netflix and Amazon requires for 4k streaming. Neither the PS4 or the XBone support HDCP 2.2.

HDCP 2.2 has been around for about 1 1/2yrs.
People shouldn't ignore this post. I have no idea whether the HDCP 2.2 requirement from the Amazon/Netflix side is correct, but if it is it explains their hardware expectation.
 
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The standard profile for single layer disc 1080p Blu-Rays averages at 20-22Mbps. At least for Blu-Rays I have (Matrix/LoTR trilogy).
While this is generally accurate, it's still worth noting that disc masters are VBR-encoded, and have the headroom to go up to 40Mbps on the video side if need be for complex shots with lots of interframe motion (shots with rain, explosions, trees in the wind, etc.). You don't get that kind of headroom in a streaming service.

With that said, I recently watched House of Cards on Netflix @ 1080p on a 133" screen, and was very impressed with the PQ. While it wasn't quite Blu-Ray quality in some of the more complex shots, it generally was on par the majority of the time, and was light years better than my cable service, IMO. Netflix has made some real improvement in the last few years.
 

Celebrimbor

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HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are two different things. HDMI is the video output, HDCP is content protection. HDCP 2.2 in hardware is what Netflix and Amazon requires for 4k streaming. Neither the PS4 or the XBone support HDCP 2.2.

HDCP 2.2 has been around for about 1 1/2yrs.
Yep.

Also if you bought a new AVR with 4k Support, you probably need to upgrade again, because most likely it doenst have HDCP 2.2 ;)

This whole 4k deal ist just a mess for the consumer.
 

iMax

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Forbes CONTRIBUTOR, chief. They're basically bloggers and freelancers using the Forbes name.

This guy's opinion means basically nothing.
So this article by a random Forbes Contributor is BS because the current hardware already supports 4k output for video, meaning new hardware won't be required.

I really wish Forbes Contributor articles were banned here, nothing good ever comes of it.
Do you not understand what a Forbes CONTRIBUTOR is?
Stop attributing all this to "Forbes." This is a Forbes contributor post.
This guy must be bawling his eyes out. His entire career means nothing.

Irrelevant Forbes Contributor Person/Thing said:
I've spent the past 20 years writing about the world of home entertainment technology--first at Home Cinema Choice magazine, where I became Deputy Editor, and for the past 17 years on a freelance basis. In that time I'm fairly confident that I've reviewed more TVs and projectors than any other individual on the planet, as well as experiencing first-hand the rise and fall of all manner of great and not so great home entertainment technologies.

I am currently a regular contributor to The Sunday Times, Ideal Home, Trustedreviews.com, Techradar.com, Home Cinema Choice magazine, Wired, and, of course, Forbes.
 

Bastardo

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Would you buy another PS4/XB1 slim, if it supported DisplayPort AdaptiveSync for the 4k standard and does away with tearing? I would.

With both of them backing hdmi, this is unlikely, but one can still dream.
 

LordofPwn

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I thought that around the PS4 reveal event they said Video Unlimited 4K was coming to PS4. I've always been under the impression that the PS4 was capable of 4K video output and that they've just been waiting on codecs and firmware. there's H.265 and VP9 right?
 

Manmademan

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I could see it being thrown in with the PS4 slim hardware revision.
This guy must be bawling his eyes out. His entire career means nothing.
Forbes contributors are not regular paid journalists by the magazine, do not have the same amount of oversight and thus it is inaccurate to claim the position of this piece is the opinion of Forbes. It's not.

The "contributor" program has very little bar to entry (any one of us could be one tomorrow) and all kinds of nonsense has been posted here before under the "contributor" banner that was highly inaccurate.

I agree with the previous poster that these things need to be banned, because it deliberately gives the apppearance of weight to blog posts that they don't actually have.
 

riflen

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People shouldn't ignore this post. I have no idea whether the HDCP 2.2 requirement from the Amazon/Netflix side is correct, but if it is it explains their hardware expectation.
Seems likely to be a legit requirement. 6 months ago, the only HDCP 2.2-capable chip available was limited to 4:2:0 colour space. Lots of vendors were waiting for a HDCP 2.2 chip that supported 4:4:4 before updating/releasing their products. I'm not sure if such chips are available yet, but it seems like they're on the horizon now, considering this rumour.
Any new XB or PS SKU will likely need to contain a chip like this.
 

walltowall

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HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are two different things. HDMI is the video output, HDCP is content protection. HDCP 2.2 in hardware is what Netflix and Amazon requires for 4k streaming. Neither the PS4 or the XBone support HDCP 2.2.

HDCP 2.2 has been around for about 1 1/2yrs.
Sorry I misread your post. Thought you meant HDMI 2.2.
 

mocoworm

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Forbes contributors are not regular paid journalists by the magazine, do not have the same amount of oversight and thus it is inaccurate to claim the position of this piece is the opinion of Forbes. It's not.

The "contributor" program has very little bar to entry (any one of us could be one tomorrow) and all kinds of nonsense has been posted here before under the "contributor" banner that was highly inaccurate.

I agree with the previous poster that these things need to be banned, because it deliberately gives the apppearance of weight to blog posts that they don't actually have.
Did you even read the rest of the post you replied to?
 

Guile

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isnt that a huge stab in the back for people that already own the console? :\
 

-griffy-

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This guy must be bawling his eyes out. His entire career means nothing.
Doesn't mean the individual guy doesn't know his stuff, but continually saying "Forbes says this" and quoting this guy's blog post throughout the thread is incorrect. It's not a piece by Forbes or one of their writers, it's essentially a blog post by a guy hosted in their webspace.
 

anddo0

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By the time 4k is mainstream, there will be new consoles...no?
New consoles yes.

will those new consoles be able to play games in 4K?

We can barley do 1080p now, and it's been standard for a while.
The next consoles would need a leap massive in order for this to become reality.
 

mocoworm

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He asked if they can, which they can. You said they can't.
They can't. They need an update. Firmware minimum, hardware if new decryption is required.

Do you understand that the position of this man's piece is not the position of Forbes? Do you understand how the program actually works?
Yes, I can see now that he is not 'Forbes'. I can also see his 20 year career in tech journalism history is not comparable to you or I writing an article as you suggested.
 

Inuhanyou

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There's security layers that need decryption? Shit...well that would necessitate new HW by default if that's done port side and not software side...

This 4K business is just a rash of bad mojo. I wonder if the "4K" option will will be for upscaling(or downscaling) the TV ouput games too like 360 did for all sorts of resolutions(and i think PS4 as well)
 

mjontrix

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HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are two different things. HDMI is the video output, HDCP is content protection. HDCP 2.2 in hardware is what Netflix and Amazon requires for 4k streaming. Neither the PS4 or the XBone support HDCP 2.2.

HDCP 2.2 has been around for about 1 1/2yrs.
Ding ding ding we have a winner!

Next revisions will have hdmi 2.0, just as xbox 360s got hdmi in later revisions.

It's not a big deal, neither consoles will do 4k games, unless you do downscaling and the ps4/xbone just outputs 4k on supported devices and skips the scaling. 4k would fine for re-remasters from ps2 era anyways and have them do 60fps on the new consoles and 30fps on the old - move more units that way.

Just dont advertise the fact too much and the general pubLic wont notice.
 

jwk94

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Stop attributing all this to "Forbes." This is a Forbes contributor post.
And that doesn't matter in the least bit. They're still writing for Forbes and the article still gets time on the front page, meaning his work is just as noteworthy as any other staffer.
 

Saint Gregory

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To say that new revisions as soon as next fall would piss me off would be putting it mildly. I just got my XB1 in November and assumed all this time that 4K playback for PS4 and Xbox would only require firmware, not new hardware.
 

Inuhanyou

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As said above, this option would also leave the door open for actual 4K native games on 4K TV's. Sure they would be PS2 level graphics, but tons of those games still look amazing today....could work for some PS2 'remasters'
 

anddo0

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And that doesn't matter in the least bit. They're still writing for Forbes and the article still gets time on the front page, meaning his work is just as noteworthy as any other staffer.
Too true.

I'll never understand why these articles get discredited just because the person is a "contributor". It's published for a reason.
 

Wag

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Seems likely to be a legit requirement. 6 months ago, the only HDCP 2.2-capable chip available was limited to 4:2:0 colour space. Lots of vendors were waiting for a HDCP 2.2 chip that supported 4:4:4 before updating/releasing their products. I'm not sure if such chips are available yet, but it seems like they're on the horizon now, considering this rumour.
Any new XB or PS SKU will likely need to contain a chip like this.


Yes. And being that HDMI 2.0 and and HDCP 2.2 go together they will most likely update the HDMI interface in both machines as well. Netflix intends on introducing 4k HDR support later this year anyways so this would be the impetus to update both machines to support the wider color space.
 

Lionel Richie

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To say that new revisions as soon as next fall would piss me off would be putting it mildly. I just got my XB1 in November and assumed all this time that 4K playback for PS4 and Xbox would only require firmware, not new hardware.
Same here, but at least from what I understood this won't affect the games too much if any at all. I don't expect the revisions to have exclusive games from the previous models.

But yeah, indeed annoying.
 

Manmademan

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They can't. They need an update. Firmware minimum, hardware if new decryption is required.



Yes, I can see now that he is not 'Forbes'. I can also see his 20 year career in tech journalism history is not comparable to you or I writing an article as you suggested.
His qualifications are irrelevant. If he had no experience at all he would still be able to write whatever he wanted here and you would attribute it to 'Forbes' because you don't know any better.

This has ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the board before, with someone unqualified writing an inane piece on games under the Forbes contributor program and getting everyone riled up.

This man is not Forbes, and his opinions here carry virtually no weight. I've never even heard of the magazine he was affiliated with. What was it's circulation? What was it's reputation? Who else wrote for them? Nobody knows.
 

Inuhanyou

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Same here, but at least from what I understood this won't affect the games too much if any at all. I don't expect the revisions to have exclusive games from the previous models.

But yeah, indeed annoying.
Not exclusive games...but it is possible that previous versions of the console will for example, play FF12HD at an internal 4K resolution, but only output 1080p to the TV, while the new version would play natively at 4K ouput as well as internally
 

Oppo

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His qualifications are irrelevant. If he had no experience at all he would still be able to write whatever he wanted here and you would attribute it to 'Forbes' because you don't know any better.

This has ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the board before, with someone unqualified writing an inane piece on games under the Forbes contributor program and getting everyone riled up.

This man is not Forbes, and his opinions here carry virtually no weight. I've never even heard of the magazine he was affiliated with. What was it's circulation? What was it's reputation? Who else wrote for them? Nobody knows.
Blame Forbes. They're the ones willing to run these pieces under their logo. I take that at face value.
 

Saint Gregory

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Same here, but at least from what I understood this won't affect the games too much if any at all. I don't expect the revisions to have exclusive games from the previous models.

But yeah, indeed annoying.
I probably got spoiled by the updates the PS3 and 360 got over the years but expecting new media features without new hardware ins't unreasonable.

If there's any difference in actually performance in games I predict the GAF servers getting nuked from orbit. Hopefully this entire rumor is wrong though.
 

Wag

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His qualifications are irrelevant. If he had no experience at all he would still be able to write whatever he wanted here and you would attribute it to 'Forbes' because you don't know any better.

This has ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the board before, with someone unqualified writing an inane piece on games under the Forbes contributor program and getting everyone riled up.

This man is not Forbes, and his opinions here carry virtually no weight. I've never even heard of the magazine he was affiliated with. What was it's circulation? What was it's reputation? Who else wrote for them? Nobody knows.
This has nothing to do with gaming. Sony has a huge movie catalog and Microsoft is in the movie delivery business (XBOX network). If they want to compete they will have to offer 4k streaming compatibility in their boxes, and in order to do that they will have to update them to HDCP 2.2 (and probably HDMI 2.0).
 

iMax

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Forbes contributors are not regular paid journalists by the magazine, do not have the same amount of oversight and thus it is inaccurate to claim the position of this piece is the opinion of Forbes. It's not.

The "contributor" program has very little bar to entry (any one of us could be one tomorrow) and all kinds of nonsense has been posted here before under the "contributor" banner that was highly inaccurate.

I agree with the previous poster that these things need to be banned, because it deliberately gives the apppearance of weight to blog posts that they don't actually have.
Do it.

Doesn't mean the individual guy doesn't know his stuff, but continually saying "Forbes says this" and quoting this guy's blog post throughout the thread is incorrect. It's not a piece by Forbes or one of their writers, it's essentially a blog post by a guy hosted in their webspace.
But that's not just a Forbes thing. It happens literally everywhere.
 

-griffy-

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Too true.

I'll never understand why these articles get discredited just because the person is a "contributor". It's published for a reason.
There have been several cases of Forbes contributor articles being inaccurate or nothing but speculation or seemingly fueled by fanboy-like viewpoints, and then being posted as "Forbes says" as a way to legitimize them. A contributor disclaimer seems earned at this point so the information can be taken into consideration with the proper context.
 

Lionel Richie

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If there's any difference in actually performance in games I predict the GAF servers getting nuked from orbit. Hopefully this entire rumor is wrong though.
Holy crap, people would riot. I think the backlash could prove too strong, so I really don't expect 4K gaming in any capacity until the PS5/Xtwo.

Plus, it would be a hard sell at least this year as I could be mistaken but 4K TVs are insanelly expensive in some parts of the world (at least here in Brazil they are currently unthinkable).
 

Inuhanyou

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I probably got spoiled by the updates the PS3 and 360 got over the years but expecting new media features without new hardware ins't unreasonable.

If there's any difference in actually performance in games I predict the GAF servers getting nuked from orbit. Hopefully this entire rumor is wrong though.
This has nothing to do with performance, only the ability to output 4K content. Every PS4 has the technical capability to do whatever 4K content that will be managed in the GPU/CPU and other components, just not the right back HDMI port and decryption software to do so.
 

iMax

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There have been several cases of Forbes contributor articles being inaccurate or nothing but speculation or seemingly fueled by fanboy-like viewpoints, and then being posted as "Forbes says" as a way to legitimize them. A contributor disclaimer seems earned at this point so the information can be taken into consideration with the proper context.
Well, yeah, of course. It's the "his opinion is meaningless" part I take issue with.
 

BPoole

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Glad I waited. I'm probably going to buy a 4K TV sometime next year since I've had the same 1080p TV since 2006.

Early adopters are getting screwed yet again.
 

tokkun

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And that doesn't matter in the least bit. They're still writing for Forbes and the article still gets time on the front page, meaning his work is just as noteworthy as any other staffer.
Given that Forbes makes a point of distinguishing Forbes Contributors from editorial staff in the bylines, it seems reasonable that people do the same thing in attributions.
 

Shin-Ra

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The standard profile for single layer disc 1080p Blu-Rays averages at 20-22Mbps. At least for Blu-Rays I have (Matrix/LoTR trilogy).
Is this 2007? Single layer disc what?

We can barley do 1080p now, and it's been standard for a while.
Bullshit.

As said above, this option would also leave the door open for actual 4K native games on 4K TV's. Sure they would be PS2 level graphics, but tons of those games still look amazing today....could work for some PS2 'remasters'
Wind Waker HD quality graphics at 4K would be great. Not many developers willing to 'restrict' themselves like that though.
 

Derpcrawler

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Is this 2007? Single layer disc what?
When was the last time you saw Blu-Ray on two layers that just had a movie and menu? Most Blu-Rays on 2 layers are 3D, 3 hours+ or come with commentary, behind the scenes and other fluff.
 

atr0cious

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His qualifications are irrelevant. If he had no experience at all he would still be able to write whatever he wanted here and you would attribute it to 'Forbes' because you don't know any better.

This has ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the board before, with someone unqualified writing an inane piece on games under the Forbes contributor program and getting everyone riled up.

This man is not Forbes, and his opinions here carry virtually no weight. I've never even heard of the magazine he was affiliated with. What was it's circulation? What was it's reputation? Who else wrote for them? Nobody knows.
I'm sorry, but this argument is terrible. IGN is a corporate blogging site run by enthusiasts. Same goes for Gamespot, GameTrailers, EGM, PC Gamer, you name it. The fact that these guys get published out of a respected site such as Forbes means they have just as much "weight" if not more, than any of these other shit peddlers, who we have no problem shitting on. Are we really saying a person writing for Forbes is lower than a Kuchera or Rogers?

It's really sad that people have no other argument against these articles other than that they're "contributers."
 

Muskieratboi

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I'm amazed that netflix et al are still even bothering with HDCP. Both previous versions were cracked in weeks or maybe a few months, and I doubt 2.2 is going to last long either. It was a stupid idea from the start, anyway..
 
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