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New 700-page report says vaccine side-effects are rare, should be considered safe

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Oh good, now that even more credible scientific data confirming vaccines are safe exists we will see vaccine conspiracy theorists disappear just like how Creationists have disappeared.

Oh wait.


Mr. B Natural said:
I'm not a vaccines cause whatever kinda person, but I'm glad people are keeping vaccines honest. Everything should be scrutinized these days and every day. People should be scrutinizing anti-depressants more, our court system, or government system, our private system, the doctors/medication relationship, the overuse of drugs.
Should it be scrutinized over false pretenses? No, but if it gets people to second guess putting something in the market, test again, test again and test again, then so be it.

Not that I disagree, but I'd like to know what your problem is with anti-depressants. Is it just that they are over-prescribed or do you think they don't do anything and you believe some whacky bullshit about how depression isn't real? Or is it something else?
 
Vaccine conspiracy theorists are illiterate mongrels, probably not mentally capable enough to read even just the summary of a 700 page paper. Put the conclusions as bullet points on the back of a cereal box for greater effect.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
God I fucking hate the anti vaccine retards. People really have no understanding of how bad diseases like Measles and others actually are. Withholding vaccines like the MMR from your children is abuse as far as I'm concerned.
 
The Vaccin : Autism relationship has been pretty well dispelled for years, but because many common celebrities took up the cause back in the 80s and 90s, the idea has been persistent... And because autism is such a bitch, it's been tough to completely get rid of. The anti-vaccination people are absolutely morons.
 

Orayn

Member
Kong Fisso said:
Vaccine conspiracy theorists are illiterate mongrels, probably not mentally capable enough to read even just the summary of a 700 page paper. Put the conclusions as bullet points on the back of a cereal box for greater effect.
Unfortunately, the core of the anti-vaccine community are true believers. Nothing you say or do will change their minds. The fringes, on the other hand, are more like normal people lead astray by a faulty argument that still sounds convincing to someone who knows none of the science involved. They're the ones that might be swayed by news like this.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I don't think anti-vaccine people are all what you make them out to be.

It's quite understandable why a parent who had a child that has a condition express itself shortly after they got their shots, not try to make the link. Especially if it is a poorly understood condition like autism.

It's just re-directed anger. A coping mechanism to deal with life's unfair hand they have been dealt. You see the same thing occur with older cancer patients that refuse to take part in established medical practices.

That's not to say you shouldn't fight back against their accusations, but you should at least understand where it comes from.
 

Orayn

Member
ToxicAdam said:
I don't think anti-vaccine people are all what you make them out to be.

It's quite understandable why a parent who had a child that has a condition express itself shortly after they got their shots, not try to make the link. Especially if it is a poorly understood condition like autism.

It's just re-directed anger. A coping mechanism to deal with life's unfair hand they have been dealt. You see the same thing occur with older cancer patients that refuse to take part in established medical practices.

That's not to say you shouldn't fight back against their accusations, but you should at least understand where it comes from.
I understand how and why, but it's still completely wrong, and they still put others' kids in danger when they don't vaccinate their own.
 

Orayn

Member
AtomskEater said:
Exactly what I thought from reading the title. It has that many pages so it MUST be right!
Lots of pages suggests that it's exhaustive and detailed, two traits that, if coupled with good methodology, do say a lot about the research itself.
 

N4Us

Member
dudeworld said:
but guys what about that girl that got that weird walking disorder from the vaccine and then it turned out she faked the whole thing

SURELY IT MEANS SOMETHING

I've still known people on Facebook to this day who post the original video, long after she got exposed, going all "Proof vaccines will ruin us!"

I tried replying with the expose video once and it got ignored so I gave up.
 
Orayn said:
Lots of pages suggests that it's exhaustive and detailed, two traits that, if coupled with good methodology, do say a lot about the research itself.

Good to know that thought wasn't entirely silly. I'm in favor of preventative measures like vaccines, so more evidence for them can only help.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
jett said:
If it wasn't for this forum I never would've known there are people out there that think vaccines are unsafe.
Same. I think it's an American thing. That's where the vaccine celebrity detractors have the most influence anyway.
 

izakq

Member
Gaborn said:
Vaccine conspiracy theorists are so STUPID. Seriously.

I have one Facebook "friend" that always points out this crap. "Don't blindly go and get your kids vaccinated. Be educated on this issue..." and such. Easy for her to say, as she doesn't have any kids of her own to be worried about. Stupid idiot.
 
Great, more coverups by these supposed "scientists". 700 pages of FUD? Every sane person knows vaccines are dangerous, not just for causing autism.

The homeopaths have it right.
 

npm0925

Member
The people who need to be convinced will never be swayed by any scientific argument, as their thought processes are based upon logical fallacies that are diametrically opposed to the scientific method. Whoever commissioned this study would be better served by using its funding to pay Tom Hanks to film a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated while showing children dying of mumps and rubella to the accompaniment of a sad Sarah McLachlin song.
 

CiSTM

Banned
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.
 
npm0925 said:
The people who need to be convinced will never be swayed by any scientific argument, as their thought processes are based upon logical fallacies that are diametrically opposed to the scientific method. Whoever commissioned this study would be better served by using its funding to pay Tom Hanks to film a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated while showing children dying of mumps and rubella to the accompaniment of a sad Sarah McLachlin song.

CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.

Mean I know, but still
 

Yoritomo

Member
CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.

Infants cannot be vaccinated before a certain age. Children that are older tend to survive whooping cough, infants do not. If you don't vaccinate your kid and they get whooping cough then pass it on to an infant, you've just killed an infant.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/20/california.whooping.cough/index.html
 

Orayn

Member
CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.
Yes, it's generally for the best. Even if you're a young, healthy person, it's still possible to catch certain diseases and become an unaffected carrier who could pass it along to someone who's unable to be vaccinated for whatever reason. The idea behind "herd immunity" is that the entire healthy population is resistant, giving diseases like measles, mumps, and rubella few opportunities to get a foothold.
Lord Error said:
Same. I think it's an American thing. That's where the vaccine celebrity detractors have the most influence anyway.
Andrew Wakefield started it in the UK, but he's having the most effect over here in 'Murrika. Sadly, Australia has a growing anti-vax community as well.
 
CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.

Yes we still need them. IIRC the only disease that has been totally eradicated in the US is polio.

Also what Orayn said.
 

CiSTM

Banned
Yoritomo said:
Infants cannot be vaccinated before a certain age. Children that are older tend to survive whooping cough, infants do not. If you don't vaccinate your kid and they get whooping cough then pass it on to an infant, you've just killed an infant.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/20/california.whooping.cough/index.html

Infants I get but after certain ages it seems that some the shots aren't really needed. My kids will take all the shots since they are free. I would have taken them back too but certain shots are given at school age in schools and I was too cool for school for most days and some how I falled through the cracks. I have gotten plenty of vaccines for all kinds of exotic diseases but not for the regular stuff.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.
... There was a whooping cough pandemic in california just last year because so many parents refused to vaccinate their kids.

Vaccines work because of herd immunity. If everyone has the vaccine, then everyone's immune system becomes well-adjusted to fighting off the disease, the disease's population stays reduced, and relatively few mutations or large concentrations of the virus exist.

People who don't get a vaccine for a virus, their immune systems don't recognize the virus as quickly as the immune systems of those who were vaccinated. They don't have the antibodies ready to fight th evirus, or as many of them as those who were vaccinated.

Basically, those who don't get vaccinated don't do as good a job at neutralizing the virus. Which means the virus typically has more time to mutate and also is able to multiply more. With more copies of the virus around, that means, due to further mutations and errors in transcription processes, there is more genetic variety among the virus population.

Larger population and more genetic variations means everyone, vaccinated or not, is more susceptible to infection and will have aharder time fighting it off.


The people who refuse to get vaccinated, well, their bodies are petri dishes where bacteria and viral cultures can multiply and evolve. It most certainly affects people who are vaccinated.
 

CiSTM

Banned
I actually called my mom about this and she still had my shot calender and I have only missed the dtap booster shot. Yay!
 

Zzoram

Member
npm0925 said:
The people who need to be convinced will never be swayed by any scientific argument, as their thought processes are based upon logical fallacies that are diametrically opposed to the scientific method. Whoever commissioned this study would be better served by using its funding to pay Tom Hanks to film a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated while showing children dying of mumps and rubella to the accompaniment of a sad Sarah McLachlin song.

Unfortunately you are correct.

People listen to celebrities, not scientists.
 

Zzoram

Member
CiSTM said:
Do people who are living in a first world country even need vaccinations anymore ? I know I missed few shots back in the day that are fairly regular and I'm fine. I have taken some shots as adult since I do lot of traveling but if I didn't I probably wouldn't take the shots.

Edit. I think vaccines are safe.

YES.

There are a shit ton of easily trasmitted horrible diseases in the world. In the modern era of easy and constant global movement of people, the existance of an infected populations anywhere in the world will inevitably result in a worldwide pandemic without strict sanitary controls and vaccination.

You don't have to travel to get sick. All it takes is someone else carrying the disease to travel to your country. Businessmen are among the worst for this, they travel to many places in many countries and interact with many people.

California has had several mumps outbreaks since the whole anti-vaccination movement.
 
A lot of those convinced are people who have children with autism. I think they want to believe something caused their children's problems, and not just genetics and bad-luck of the draw.

I feel bad for them, but the loud screaming about vaccines isn't doing anyone any good.. especially considering the main study linking vaccines and autism turned out to be fraudulent.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html

It's a tough situation for a parent to be in.. but people need to be told to STFU at this point.
 

Zzoram

Member
Yup, people like to have a clear cause to blame and an easy way to solve the problem. They don't want to hear "lost the genetic lottery".
 

Orayn

Member
Zzoram said:
Yup, people like to have a clear cause to blame and an easy way to solve the problem. They don't want to hear "lost the genetic lottery".
Unfortunately, yeah. It's a serious, profound problem, so some people aren't emotionally satisfied with an explanation that isn't similarly serious and profound.
 

Game-Biz

Member
dudeworld said:
but guys what about that girl that got that weird walking disorder from the vaccine and then it turned out she faked the whole thing

SURELY IT MEANS SOMETHING
Wait. I barely remember that story. It turned out she was faking it???
 

Orayn

Member
Game-Biz said:
Wait. I barely remember that story. It turned out she was faking it???
Probably some combination of intentional faking and psychosomatic issues. The fact that she could walk backwards normally was a dead giveaway that she didn't have any actual neurological issues.
 
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