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New comparison video of TLOU I from Naughty Dog

Oh yeah? You work on the social media team?
You seem to have a reading issue since you don't have to be on the social media team to SEE what people are sending them on social media.

Are you drunk? It's fine if you are. Actually.....it is better if you are.

Yep just ignore that public space where you can see the barrage of people across multiple sites attacking them for MP, must pretend that doesn't exist as you defend a company charging you $20 more than the remaster for no MP.

I agree with both of you, it's the best new feature, and I'm glad you guys get to pay more to be rid of it, games have too much content these days.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
You seem to have a reading issue since you don't have to be on the social media team to SEE what people are sending them on social media.



Yep just ignore that public space where you can see the barrage of people across multiple sites attacking them for MP, must pretend that doesn't exist as you defend a company charging you $20 more than the remaster for no MP.

I agree with both of you, it's the best new feature, and I'm glad you guys get to pay more to be rid of it, games have too much content these days.
So you're picking this up day one?
 

Lupin25

Member
Oh I can tell, as well as the improved animation rigs, it’s clear the PS5 Remake looks better…

But what I mean is it’s not being justified with a garbage quality video such as this. I’ll wait to see launch footage to make judgment.
 
People actually expected a huge leap over TLOU 2?
Ok. Now I know why you think it looks good. You have the lowest expectations imaginable. Why wouldn't you expect it to look much better than LoU2? Is this not rebuilt for the ps5 compared to Part 2 being on ps4 pro? You are Sony's target demographic apparently. Low standards, low expectations, and you don't even think to ask for better!

I understand you finally.
 

20cent

Member
 

DForce

Member
Ok. Now I know why you think it looks good. You have the lowest expectations imaginable. Why wouldn't you expect it to look much better than LoU2? Is this not rebuilt for the ps5 compared to Part 2 being on ps4 pro? You are Sony's target demographic apparently. Low standards, low expectations, and you don't even think to ask for better!

I understand you finally.
- Game was being built by VAS while Naughty Dog was developing The Last of Us Part II.
- It was designed by a small team with a very low budget.
- Many assets are pulled from The Last of Us Part II, but at a higher resolution compared to the PS4 Pro.
- VAS didn't update the Naughty Dog engine, they used an existing one, which means it was simultaneously being developed with the Last of Us Part II.
- A small team finished this while others worked on a new IP and the Multiplayer.

Yes, many assets, even new ones rendered at a higher resolution are going to look better.

I have low expectations because it's a small project.

I'm being realistic and not pretending that this game has a big budget.
 
- Game was being built by VAS while Naughty Dog was developing The Last of Us Part II.
- It was designed by a small team with a very low budget.
- Many assets are pulled from The Last of Us Part II, but at a higher resolution compared to the PS4 Pro.
- VAS didn't update the Naughty Dog engine, they used an existing one, which means it was simultaneously being developed with the Last of Us Part II.
- A small team finished this while others worked on a new IP and the Multiplayer.

Yes, many assets, even new ones rendered at a higher resolution are going to look better.

I have low expectations because it's a small project.

I'm being realistic and not pretending that this game has a big budget.
So if all those things are the case why are they charging a big price tag? According to you everything being smaller scale and half assed but you're adamantly defending the remake...
 

DForce

Member
So if all those things are the case why are they charging a big price tag? According to you everything being smaller scale and half assed but you're adamantly defending the remake...

It's not if. That's what happened. It's in the report.


Nintendo charged full price for re-released on Switch. Charing full price doesn't mean it wasn't a small scale project.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Ok. Now I know why you think it looks good. You have the lowest expectations imaginable. Why wouldn't you expect it to look much better than LoU2? Is this not rebuilt for the ps5 compared to Part 2 being on ps4 pro? You are Sony's target demographic apparently. Low standards, low expectations, and you don't even think to ask for better!

I understand you finally.

Naughty Dog themselves used TLOU 2 as a reference for this game. What expectations should we have beyond that? I'd rather have real expectations than bullshit ones, frankly.
 

SlimySnake

Gold Member
So if all those things are the case why are they charging a big price tag? According to you everything being smaller scale and half assed but you're adamantly defending the remake...
Exactly. Half price for a half assed remake. $40 for it wouldve been perfect tbh. Same as Ratchet and SOTC. But nah they had to mislead us and try to pass it off as a PS5 game while trying to pass off the original TLOU as a PS4 game.

The sad part is that they didnt even need next gen Matrix quality visuals. They couldve half assed it by keeping it PS4 quality, but at least tried to use the extra horsepower to bring back the E3 2018 visuals and motion matching. That thing was supposedly running on a PS4 Pro in realtime. I highly doubt even ND would lie about that. So why couldnt they make visuals look as good as the OG TLOU2 gameplay reveal?

I mean these are gameplay shots they used as promotional material on retail websites.







They had this engine up and running in 2018. Right when this game started development. If this was a PS5 game targeting 1440p 60 fps, why the need for the downgrade?
 
Exactly. Half price for a half assed remake. $40 for it wouldve been perfect tbh. Same as Ratchet and SOTC. But nah they had to mislead us and try to pass it off as a PS5 game while trying to pass off the original TLOU as a PS4 game.

The sad part is that they didnt even need next gen Matrix quality visuals. They couldve half assed it by keeping it PS4 quality, but at least tried to use the extra horsepower to bring back the E3 2018 visuals and motion matching. That thing was supposedly running on a PS4 Pro in realtime. I highly doubt even ND would lie about that. So why couldnt they make visuals look as good as the OG TLOU2 gameplay reveal?

I mean these are gameplay shots they used as promotional material on retail websites.







They had this engine up and running in 2018. Right when this game started development. If this was a PS5 game targeting 1440p 60 fps, why the need for the downgrade?
I love Naughty Dog, think they are the best studio that exists and TLOU II is the best game I’ve EVER played in my entire life but I agree…TLOU I Remake should be on par with the E3 2018 Demo.
 
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Hunnybun

Member
The game was in development since 2018, using the same engine as the TLOU 2. Now if this game started development after TLOU 2, then you would have a point, but it wasn't.

No:

1. The leak said it was built on a new engine, so those expectations were set (not ND's fault, of course), but Schreier is basically reliable and the leak was basically right, so no particular reason to disbelieve that detail

2. ND have now claimed that it was built specifically for PS5. This could still have been done on the existing engine and looked way better than TLOU2. Engines are fairly scalable. HFW on the PS5 (in certain environments) looks a generation better than the first game, built on the same engine, for example. So using the same engine is not a valid excuse.

3. The timeline seems entirely irrelevant. 2018 was easily late enough to have been able to target next gen capabilities. I'm sure Ratchet, for example, was started at least that early.

IMO the best explanation for why it looks so underwhelming, from a developer that's SO talented, is simply that it's untrue that it was ever designed around the PS5.
 

DForce

Member
No:

1. The leak said it was built on a new engine, so those expectations were set (not ND's fault, of course), but Schreier is basically reliable and the leak was basically right, so no particular reason to disbelieve that detail

2. ND have now claimed that it was built specifically for PS5. This could still have been done on the existing engine and looked way better than TLOU2. Engines are fairly scalable. HFW on the PS5 (in certain environments) looks a generation better than the first game, built on the same engine, for example. So using the same engine is not a valid excuse.

3. The timeline seems entirely irrelevant. 2018 was easily late enough to have been able to target next gen capabilities. I'm sure Ratchet, for example, was started at least that early.

IMO the best explanation for why it looks so underwhelming, from a developer that's SO talented, is simply that it's untrue that it was ever designed around the PS5.

No.

It was intended to look similar to The Last of Us Part II.

At the time, Naughty Dog was in the thick of development on the sequel, The Last of Us Part II, which would introduce higher-fidelity graphics and new gameplay features. If Mumbauer’s crew remade the first game to have a similar look and feel, the two games could be packaged together for the PlayStation 5. In theory, this would be a less expensive proposition than remaking Uncharted, since The Last of Us was more modern and wouldn’t require too many gameplay overhauls.

They completed a section of the game, and Herman Hulst wondered why the budget was bigger than other remakes. The reason for this is because they needed to hire more people to "rework the graphics on new technology and resign gameplay mechanics.

Mumbauer’s project, code-named T1X, was approved on a probationary basis, but Sony kept the team’s existence a secret, and refused to give them a budget to hire more people, leading many to wonder if the company was really committed to letting the team build a new studio. Still, the small team kept working and by the spring of 2019 they had completed a section of the game designed to showcase how the rest would look and feel.
At that time, Sony was going through a management shuffle and the new boss wasn’t impressed. Hermen Hulst, the former head of Guerrilla Games, was named head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios in November 2019. He thought the remake project was too expensive, according to people familiar with the matter, and asked why the planned budget for T1X was so much higher than remakes Sony had made in the past. The reason was that this one was on a brand new graphical engine for the PlayStation 5. Mumbauer needed to hire more people to help rework the graphics on new technology as well as redesign gameplay mechanics. Hulst wasn’t convinced, the people said.

As we know now, this didn't happen because that wasn't part of their budget. The remake was delayed until after The Last of Us Part II was finished.

Just when it hoped to enter production on the remake of The Last of Us, Mumbauer’s team got called in to help when another big game fell behind. Release of The Last of Us Part II had been pushed to 2020 from 2019 and Naughty Dog needed the Visual Arts Service Group to polish it off. Most of Mumbauer’s team, along with some of the 200 or so other staff at the Visual Arts Service Group, was assigned to support Naughty Dog, slowing down progress on its own game

The fact is, they were intended to look similar and they wanted to stay within that small budget. Nothing even suggests that it was going to look way better than The Last of Us Part II. They were going to release it alongside The Last of Part II, but The Last of Us Part II got delayed


Do you really think they were going to release both games together and have The Last of Us Remake look much better? That wouldn't make any sense.
 
Exactly. Half price for a half assed remake. $40 for it wouldve been perfect tbh. Same as Ratchet and SOTC. But nah they had to mislead us and try to pass it off as a PS5 game while trying to pass off the original TLOU as a PS4 game.

The sad part is that they didnt even need next gen Matrix quality visuals. They couldve half assed it by keeping it PS4 quality, but at least tried to use the extra horsepower to bring back the E3 2018 visuals and motion matching. That thing was supposedly running on a PS4 Pro in realtime. I highly doubt even ND would lie about that. So why couldnt they make visuals look as good as the OG TLOU2 gameplay reveal?

I mean these are gameplay shots they used as promotional material on retail websites.







They had this engine up and running in 2018. Right when this game started development. If this was a PS5 game targeting 1440p 60 fps, why the need for the downgrade?
Damn this looks better than any next gen game i've played (HFW,returnal,r&c)
 
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hemo memo

Member
Exactly. Half price for a half assed remake. $40 for it wouldve been perfect tbh. Same as Ratchet and SOTC. But nah they had to mislead us and try to pass it off as a PS5 game while trying to pass off the original TLOU as a PS4 game.

The sad part is that they didnt even need next gen Matrix quality visuals. They couldve half assed it by keeping it PS4 quality, but at least tried to use the extra horsepower to bring back the E3 2018 visuals and motion matching. That thing was supposedly running on a PS4 Pro in realtime. I highly doubt even ND would lie about that. So why couldnt they make visuals look as good as the OG TLOU2 gameplay reveal?

I mean these are gameplay shots they used as promotional material on retail websites.







They had this engine up and running in 2018. Right when this game started development. If this was a PS5 game targeting 1440p 60 fps, why the need for the downgrade?
Because it is a cheap cash grab?
Because a release before the show?
Because it a full price engine test?

They didn’t even bother to bring the gameplay up to match Part2 hiding behind the ridiculous (faithful) excuse so they don’t have to put the effort to actually build the game from the ground up for that gameplay. Basically you’ll end up with a remake with worse gameplay than the previous product, which defeat the purpose of a damn remake ,as it is supposed to fix/improve the most important thing about a game which is the gameplay.

This game is the definition of low risk/high reward. Using same voice acting, same gameplay, recreating scenes shot-by-shot so creativity out the window. Worst come to worst they can push it for the new PS+ or justify its cheap lazy existence as a product for the TV show audience.
 
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Haggard

Member
The fact is, they were intended to look similar and they wanted to stay within that small budget. Nothing even suggests that it was going to look way better than The Last of Us Part II. They were going to release it alongside The Last of Part II, but The Last of Us Part II got delayed


Do you really think they were going to release both games together and have The Last of Us Remake look much better? That wouldn't make any sense.
You`re going on and on about lower/small budget while that thing is going to hit the shelves at 70$/80€ with Sony pretending that it`s a bona fide next gen exclusive development...which it very visibly isn`t.....
 

Hunnybun

Member
No.

It was intended to look similar to The Last of Us Part II.



They completed a section of the game, and Herman Hulst wondered why the budget was bigger than other remakes. The reason for this is because they needed to hire more people to "rework the graphics on new technology and resign gameplay mechanics.




As we know now, this didn't happen because that wasn't part of their budget. The remake was delayed until after The Last of Us Part II was finished.



The fact is, they were intended to look similar and they wanted to stay within that small budget. Nothing even suggests that it was going to look way better than The Last of Us Part II. They were going to release it alongside The Last of Part II, but The Last of Us Part II got delayed


Do you really think they were going to release both games together and have The Last of Us Remake look much better? That wouldn't make any sense.

Can you post the part of the article where it goes on to confirm that Hulst wasn't convinced about the expense and therefore the aim to build it on new tech was stymied?

Because I don't remember that part.
 

DForce

Member
You`re going on and on about lower/small budget while that thing is going to hit the shelves at 70$/80€ with Sony pretending that it`s a bona fide next gen exclusive development...which it very visibly isn`t.....
You can't ignore facts.

It was reported as a low buget project.
It was made as a low budget project.
70 price tag doesn't change that.
Being PlayStation 5 game doesn't change what was being reported.

If you're going to debate with someone, then try not to ignore the facts.
 

DForce

Member
Can you post the part of the article where it goes on to confirm that Hulst wasn't convinced about the expense and therefore the aim to build it on new tech was stymied?

Because I don't remember that part.

He wasn't convinced that it needed a bigger staff to rework the tech and redesign the mechanics.

Mumbauer needed to hire more people to help rework the graphics on new technology as well as redesign gameplay mechanics. Hulst wasn’t convinced, the people said.
 

ZehDon

Member
I think it highlights the achievements ND made with TLOUII that their next gen only remake on a console five times more powerful looks basically the same. It also highlights that this remake is not really a next gen title, is way over-priced as a result.

Feels like their going back to well one too many times.
 

Haggard

Member
You can't ignore facts.

It was reported as a low buget project.
It was made as a low budget project.
70 price tag doesn't change that.
Being PlayStation 5 game doesn't change what was being reported.

If you're going to debate with someone, then try not to ignore the facts.
The only one ignoring facts here, namely Sony's advertising and price strategy for this product, is you...
 

DForce

Member
The only one ignoring facts here, namely Sony's advertising and

Because it's obvious that they were lying when it was reported by Jason and the developer that the remake started development before The Last of Us Part II was released. What did they say during the video? That it happened after and they were happy to go back. But oh, it was reported that Naughty Dog wasn't happy with the arrangement.

price strategy for this product, is you...
The pricing strategy doesn't reflect the budget.

Your logic is terrible considering Nintendo released HD remasters at full price. You're just reaching because this makes absolutely.


What's being advertised is irrelevant. The point is WHY it was developed, WHY the budget was low, what their goal was, and why the project was started in the first place. How it was advertised doesn't change that, because they can say anything that they want.


Recognizing the risks and expense involved with developing a new game from scratch, they decided to focus on remaking older games for the new PlayStation 5. Remakes are considered a safe bet since it’s cheaper to update and polish an old game than it is to start from scratch, and they can be sold both to nostalgic old fans and curious new ones.

So which story is correct? Naughty Dog deciding to remake the game AFTER the Last of US part II or VAS going to Sony before The Last of Us was released and starting the project?
 

DForce

Member
That doesn't state that his doubt led to a reduction in the budget or compromise in the scope. Just that he wasn't convinced.

Have you got any other evidence for your claim of a small budget?
What are you talking about?

You asked me to quote Hulst about the expenses and I did.

Sony kept the team’s existence a secret, and refused to give them a budget to hire more people

Hermen Hulst, the former head of Guerrilla Games, was named head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios in November 2019. He thought the remake project was too expensive, according to people familiar with the matter, and asked why the planned budget for T1X was so much higher than remakes Sony had made in the past. The reason was that this one was on a brand new graphical engine for the PlayStation 5. Mumbauer needed to hire more people to help rework the graphics on new technology as well as redesign gameplay mechanics. Hulst wasn’t convinced, the people said.

He wasn't convinced that they needed to hire more people.

The budget was intended to be low. This is stated in the article several times.
 

Hunnybun

Member
What are you talking about?

You asked me to quote Hulst about the expenses and I did.





He wasn't convinced that they needed to hire more people.

The budget was intended to be low. This is stated in the article several times.

But then the article states that rather than hire more people a significant amount of ND devs moved onto the project.

That amounts to the same thing.

It's implied that the project grew beyond its original scope as ND got more and more involved. The impression given is that it ended up as a big budget development, quite the opposite of your claims.
 

DForce

Member
But then the article states that rather than hire more people a significant amount of ND devs moved onto the project.

That amounts to the same thing.

It's implied that the project grew beyond its original scope as ND got more and more involved. The impression given is that it ended up as a big budget development, quite the opposite of your claims.

Where does it say significant?

Then, the roles got reversed. Sony sent word that after the completion of The Last of Us Part II, some people from Naughty Dog would help out with T1X. Mumbauer’s team saw this as their short-lived autonomy being stripped. Dozens of Naughty Dog staff were joining the project, and some had actually worked on the original The Last of Us, giving them more weight in discussions about T1X’s direction. The game was moved under Naughty Dog’s budget, which Sony gave more leeway than the Visual Arts Service Group. Soon it was apparent that Naughty Dog was in charge, and the dynamics returned to what they had been for the last decade and a half: The Visual Arts Support Group aiding another team of developers rather than leading. [...]

It doesn't say significant, it says SOME people from Naughty Dog would help out with The Last of Us Remake after The Last of Us Part II was completed. It then says DOZENS of Naughty Dog staff were joining the project and that they were given more leeway in terms of budget.

Naughty Dog has around 500 employees and you think a significant amount was working on the project. It literally says dozens and that's out of the hundreds that they have.

Again, everything indicates that this was a low budget project.
 
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