New Donkey Kong Country Returns Trailer!

KevinCow said:
Saying DKC2 lacks variety, though? That's just nonsense.
Saying 1 or 3 did either would be nonsense as well.

DKC2 being one of the most varied platformers of all time has sadly made the other two pale in comparison.
 
KevinCow said:
It sounds to me like you were just bad at the game and instead of admitting that you decided to blame the game.

It's okay, I know I've done that before too.

Saying DKC2 lacks variety, though? That's just nonsense.
Yep, that's it. I've gone through various N+ games with nary a complaint, chew through Mega Man games like they're marshmallows, 1cc'd Metal Slug 3, beat Ghosts n Goblins games, Ninja Gaiden games, and Castlevania games with nary a cry of "that's unfair" to be heard, but the one afternoon it took me to beat DKC2 was such an utter hell on my weak gaming skills that I imagined a Rare game had bad collision like all their bloody games do.

See, it sounds to me like you like the game so instead of admitting it may have faults, you're pushing criticism back onto anyone who dares to complain. It also sounds to me that you like to dress in little pink ballerina outfits and listen to Raffi all day long.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Yep, that's it. I've gone through various N+ games with nary a complaint, chew through Mega Man games like they're marshmallows, 1cc'd Metal Slug 3, beat Ghosts n Goblins games, Ninja Gaiden games, and Castlevania games with nary a cry of "that's unfair" to be heard, but the one afternoon it took me to beat DKC2 was such an utter hell on my weak gaming skills that I imagined a Rare game had bad collision like all their bloody games do.

See, it sounds to me like you like the game so instead of admitting it may have faults, you're pushing criticism back onto anyone who dares to complain. It also sounds to me that you like to dress in little pink ballerina outfits and listen to Raffi all day long.
Could you elaborate? I've honestly never heard of this complaint before this thread.
 
flak57 said:
Could you elaborate? I've honestly never heard of this complaint before this thread.
What is there to elaborate on? The collision is off. You take hits from things that didn't touch you. You jump in on an angle to land on an enemy's head and instead the game reads it as you hitting the front and you die. It's not shittacular or anything, but it's off a bit, and it causes hits where the player should get away clean. The wonky collision in the DKC games is pretty well-known... speedrunners on the games even use it to their advantage.
 
And I've run through DKC2 and 3 many times without ever dying in a way that I'd blame on the game, be that with the collision or being "run into doorknobs" or whatever. DKC1, yeah, it had some collision issues. Minor ones, mostly when riding Winky or Expresso. But it was ironed out by the second game, as were pretty much any other issues.

I'm not calling your leet gamer skillz into question. I'm saying you had some issues with the way the game played, and instead of adjusting to it like millions of other people who played the game were somehow able to, you declared it a fault of the game and blamed your deaths on it.
 
Looking forward to hearing more of the music. In this clip the music really seemed to be more in the background whereas the sounds were really taking over.

I hope the music turns out to be good because it really was one of the main draw cards of the original game. The music from the original DKC is still up there with the best IMO.

Segata Sanshiro said:
What is there to elaborate on? The collision is off. You take hits from things that didn't touch you. You jump in on an angle to land on an enemy's head and instead the game reads it as you hitting the front and you die. It's not shittacular or anything, but it's off a bit, and it causes hits where the player should get away clean. The wonky collision in the DKC games is pretty well-known... speedrunners on the games even use it to their advantage.
I'm a huge DKC fan but this is definitely true. You have to learn to work around it (or as you said use it to your advantage) but it can be a little annoying. I peronsonally didn't mind it but i can understand how it could be annoying.

KevinCow said:
I'm not calling your leet gamer skillz into question. I'm saying you had some issues with the way the game played, and instead of adjusting to it like millions of other people who played the game were somehow able to, you declared it a fault of the game and blamed your deaths on it.
The fact remains that the collision detection is not precise and therefore allows you die when you shouldn't have. This is definitely a fault with the game. Just because you are able to overlook this fault doesn't change the fact that it is one.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Mr_Moogle said:
Seems like a shame Retro couldnt get David Wise to work on this. Didnt he leave RARE just recently?

I actually think the music of the SNES games has more personality than the modern update.
As far as I'm aware they didn't even try to get Wise on board. Seems like Nintendo wanted to keep the development of DKCR a strictly internal affair.
 
KevinCow said:
And I've run through DKC2 and 3 many times without ever dying in a way that I'd blame on the game, be that with the collision or being "run into doorknobs" or whatever. DKC1, yeah, it had some collision issues. Minor ones, mostly when riding Winky or Expresso. But it was ironed out by the second game, as were pretty much any other issues.

I'm not calling your leet gamer skillz into question. I'm saying you had some issues with the way the game played, and instead of adjusting to it like millions of other people who played the game were somehow able to, you declared it a fault of the game and blamed your deaths on it.
The "running into doorknobs" thing is a separate issue from the collision. It describes how Rare designs their levels in their games. Many better developers will introduce new gameplay concepts in non-lethal settings, to give the player a chance when they do run into it in a lethal situation. Rare does not do this. They have never done this. They often introduce new gameplay elements that will kill the player the first time they run into them. They usually make up for this by tossing a lot of lives at the player, as in DKC, or by laughing and saying "fuck ya", like in Battletoads.

I obviously was able to adjust to the weird collision, as I beat the game in an afternoon, but that doesn't mean it's not a fault. What kind of weird logic is that? Lots of people love the Fallout/Elder Scrolls games, but it doesn't make them any less buggy.

Basically your position is that the game is perfect. Cool. Cheers to you, that doesn't help me a lick and won't stop me from hoping the faults I found in the older games won't be present in this newer one.
 
Dave Wise didn't leave Rare until late last year, well into the game's development, probably too late to get a new composer on board. Would be cool if they could set something up for DKCR2 if there ever is one.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
The "running into doorknobs" thing is a separate issue from the collision. It describes how Rare designs their levels in their games. Many better developers will introduce new gameplay concepts in non-lethal settings, to give the player a chance when they do run into it in a lethal situation. Rare does not do this. They have never done this. They often introduce new gameplay elements that will kill the player the first time they run into them. They usually make up for this by tossing a lot of lives at the player, as in DKC, or by laughing and saying "fuck ya", like in Battletoads.

I obviously was able to adjust to the weird collision, as I beat the game in an afternoon, but that doesn't mean it's not a fault. What kind of weird logic is that? Lots of people love the Fallout/Elder Scrolls games, but it doesn't make them any less buggy.

Basically your position is that the game is perfect. Cool. Cheers to you, that doesn't help me a lick and won't stop me from hoping the faults I found in the older games won't be present in this newer one.
It sounds like the game isn't for you, and that you may not have been very good at it. I've never experienced any collision issues outside of Winky and Expresso, and the occasional annoyance of jumping during a cartwheel attack that has resulted in a few deaths, and I never felt that the new gimmick presented in each level was a trial and error experience. I just developed a certain rhythm and speed to play the game that I could handle those obstacles.
 
flak57 said:
It sounds like the game isn't for you, and that you may not have been very good at it. I've never experienced any collision issues outside of Winky and Expresso, and the occasional annoyance of jumping during a cartwheel attack that has resulted in a few deaths, and I never felt that the new gimmick presented in each level was a trial and error experience. I just developed a certain rhythm and speed to play the game that I could handle those obstacles.
If a game can be cleared in an afternoon by someone who isn't very good at it, then how fast did you pro-stars do it? A half hour? Christ.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
The "running into doorknobs" thing is a separate issue from the collision. It describes how Rare designs their levels in their games. Many better developers will introduce new gameplay concepts in non-lethal settings, to give the player a chance when they do run into it in a lethal situation. Rare does not do this. They have never done this. They often introduce new gameplay elements that will kill the player the first time they run into them. They usually make up for this by tossing a lot of lives at the player, as in DKC, or by laughing and saying "fuck ya", like in Battletoads.
But... they do do that. I can't think of a single stage where they introduced a new mechanic without doing that. Pretty much every stage does it, in fact. They introduce a new mechanic in a non-lethal or at least mostly non-lethal setting so you can understand how it works (often with giant floating letters made out of bananas just in case you can't figure out which button to press), then throw the same obstacle at you again throughout the level with gradually increasing difficulty. The only reason I included the "or at least mostly non-lethal" part there is because there are some levels where the gimmick is inherently lethal, but they always do a good job at conveying what is bad before it's absolutely necessary. Yes, that rising acid is bad. No, you don't want to hit the barrels with big red Xes.

I obviously was able to adjust to the weird collision, as I beat the game in an afternoon, but that doesn't mean it's not a fault. What kind of weird logic is that? Lots of people love the Fallout/Elder Scrolls games, but it doesn't make them any less buggy.
I'm saying that the collision works just fine, just different from the standard sprite-based game like the ones you listed where everything's hitbox is the clearly defined box that the sprite takes up. Yes, the hitboxes are slightly smaller than the actual sprites, but if anything, that makes the game more forgiving. And no, I'm not going to say that's a flaw, unless you're going to say that it's also a flaw in the many shmups where it's also the case.

Basically your position is that the game is perfect.
Not quite, but it's as close as I've seen a game come.
 
Whatevs. There are no collision problems, Rare does not employ trial and error gameplay in their games, every little thing about the game is perfect, I suck at games.

Next time someone asks me why I don't actually discuss games on these message boards, I'm going to beat them to fucking death with their own leg.
 
KevinCow said:
I seriously want an example of this trial and error gameplay you keep talking about. Just one, in the entirety of DKC2.
I'm not going to plug my Wii in, fire up the game, and play to find an example for someone who thinks any problems I find with the game must be something wrong with me, not the game. I'll find something, you'll explain it away, I'll find something else, you'll explain it away again. It's a waste of time for both of us. You think the game is nearly perfect, I think the game is flawed, and neither one of us has enough respect for the other to actually come to any kind of agreement or reconciliation on this.

So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to exit this thread, and I am never going to bring up Donkey Kong Country on these boards again. I will put it on the list of things that cannot be talked about along with just about every other game in existence. Everyone, have a lovely tea party, and I hope we all enjoy the new game. I won't be saying if I do enjoy it or not, though, because there is absolutely no worth in talking about games around here.

Cheers.
 
KevinCow said:
I seriously want an example of this trial and error gameplay you keep talking about. Just one, in the entirety of DKC2.
The big cheese wheels.

There are a lot of spots i can think of in DKC where you will be walking along only to have an enemy come from off screen really fast giving you almost no chance to react.

Edit:
Segata Sanshiro said:
So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to exit this thread, and I am never going to bring up Donkey Kong Country on these boards again. I will put it on the list of things that cannot be talked about along with just about every other game in existence. Everyone, have a lovely tea party, and I hope we all enjoy the new game. I won't be saying if I do enjoy it or not, though, because there is absolutely no worth in talking about games around here.

Cheers.
Whilst i agree that it can be VERY annoying discussing games on here (mostly because of people being way to overzealous, sensitive and dismissive in their defense of games) i won't let the stubborness of a few people ruin my fun.

There are people who will discuss this and other games in a constructive manner.
 
First: New Super Mario Bros Wii,
Then: Kirby's Epic Yarn,
Now: Donkey Kong Country Returns.

Nintendo is setting a new 2D console platforming golden age one more time.
 
cantona222 said:
First: Wario Land The Shake Dimension
Then: New Super Mario Bros Wii
Now: Kirby's Epic Yarn
Soon: Donkey Kong Country Returns.

Nintendo is setting a new 2D console platforming golden age one more time.

Fixed :)
 
AdventureRacing said:
The big cheese wheels.

There are a lot of spots i can think of in DKC where you will be walking along only to have an enemy come from off screen really fast giving you almost no chance to react.
The spiked tires were worse than the wheels, but I never felt they were unfair. And considering that there are multiple DK barrels throughout levels, something like that is even less likely to result in a death.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I'm not going to plug my Wii in, fire up the game, and play to find an example for someone who thinks any problems I find with the game must be something wrong with me, not the game. I'll find something, you'll explain it away, I'll find something else, you'll explain it away again. It's a waste of time for both of us. You think the game is nearly perfect, I think the game is flawed, and neither one of us has enough respect for the other to actually come to any kind of agreement or reconciliation on this.

So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to exit this thread, and I am never going to bring up Donkey Kong Country on these boards again. I will put it on the list of things that cannot be talked about along with just about every other game in existence. Everyone, have a lovely tea party, and I hope we all enjoy the new game. I won't be saying if I do enjoy it or not, though, because there is absolutely no worth in talking about games around here.

Cheers.
I expect you to counter my points so I can respond with my own points?

Well.

Yeah.

That's called a discussion.

I mean, what, you just expect to say that a widely acclaimed game really isn't all that great without people trying to counter your points? And then when asked to provide specific examples, you pussy out of the whole conversation? I'm pretty fucking surprised to see that from you of all people.

Incidentally, no, I don't expect you to pop the game back in to find an example. I just expect that if it was that big an issue, you'd probably be able to remember at least one specific instance.
 
KevinCow said:
I expect you to counter my points so I can respond with my own points?

Well.

Yeah.

That's called a discussion.

I mean, what, you just expect to say that a widely acclaimed game really isn't all that great without people trying to counter your points? And then when asked to provide specific examples, you pussy out of the whole conversation? I'm pretty fucking surprised to see that from you of all people.

Incidentally, no, I don't expect you to pop the game back in to find an example. I just expect that if it was that big an issue, you'd probably be able to remember at least one specific instance.
Why on Earth would I remember a specific instance from a game I played through in one afternoon and didn't care much for?

And you know, I'm not just going to pussy out of the conversation. I'm going to pussy out of the boards. The lack of numbers has made the sales talk terrible, the biz talk is so choked with virals and apologist fanboys that it's completely terrible, and the gaming talk has always been terrible. That pretty much leaves trolling, and if that's all my contribution is going to be, I'm better off leaving.

People who don't suck know where to find me. Adios, GAF.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Why on Earth would I remember a specific instance from a game I played through in one afternoon and didn't care much for?

And you know, I'm not just going to pussy out of the conversation. I'm going to pussy out of the boards. The lack of numbers has made the sales talk terrible, the biz talk is so choked with virals and apologist fanboys that it's completely terrible, and the gaming talk has always been terrible. That pretty much leaves trolling, and if that's all my contribution is going to be, I'm better off leaving.

People who don't suck know where to find me. Adios, GAF.
o_O

P.S The music is soOooOoOoo good.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Why on Earth would I remember a specific instance from a game I played through in one afternoon and didn't care much for?

And you know, I'm not just going to pussy out of the conversation. I'm going to pussy out of the boards. The lack of numbers has made the sales talk terrible, the biz talk is so choked with virals and apologist fanboys that it's completely terrible, and the gaming talk has always been terrible. That pretty much leaves trolling, and if that's all my contribution is going to be, I'm better off leaving.

People who don't suck know where to find me. Adios, GAF.
I don't particularly suck and I have no idea where that might be.
 
AniHawk said:
god damnit, dkc is not a great game and never was. certainly not worth this shitfest.

edit: the recent conversation, not dkcr.
Had some great music, but yea I think Segata's deal has little to do with this game and more to do with him being sick of the boards.

Or he could just be having a bad day.
 
Never cared that much for the older DKC games, but this looks pretty cool. Looking forward to it.

Edit: man, what is it with DKC and all the crazies coming out every damn corner. Say one bad thing about the original games and people go apeshit (pun intended) about a single opinion.
 
Looks good, but you can tell nobody from the originals worked on them :/
And then the music...

With Jungle Beat, it was different because it wasn't really trying to ape DKC
 
fuck yeah!

edit: wtf happened to this thread lol damn... hope the game turns out well, i like other just want a good platformer... and more of them

:lol
 
Not feeling the music, but the gameplay looks stellar. Art and animation are top notch as well.


It's hard to imagine that this might achieve the same level of excellence as the old games considering they're among the best 2D platformers ever made. Then again, that's what they said about the Metroid series and Retro pulled it off with Prime.

Fantastic stuff.