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New Gabe Newell Interview - Valve Currently Creating Brain Computer Interface - "Neural Computing is Already indistinguishable from Science Fiction"

Miles708

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Sep 11, 2019
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It's great and potentially spectacular to think of the medical applications of this tech in, for example, people in a coma state.

For entertainment purposes though? Horrible, terrible scary and unnecessary.
 

ProLogY

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Jul 3, 2020
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It's hard to believe tech like this could be ready for mass market use in any capacity.. much less gaming anytime soon.

Though how cool would it be to see some form of deep dive VR this decade. Wild to think about.
 

Hudo

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Jul 26, 2018
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Cool but before they tackle any other gimmicks, can they please just fucking do a Half-Life 3 and resolve the cliffhanger(s)?
 
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TimFL

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I wrote a book (that I never attempted to publish because its meh) a few years ago that was sort of based around the idea that people could "Game" while sleeping. Essentially the tech worked by utilizing implants that allowed people to "Lucid Dream" into a Massively Multiplayer Virtual Universe like the one found in Ready Player One. Its an interesting concept though. I mean, we spend half of our lives sleeping, imagine if we could get that back for entertainment purposes?

Technically, for those of us that CAN lucid dream, you already can get some of that time back.
I can think of a gazillion better things to do while sleeping. I'm at the peak of my career in terms of creativity and output but I'm still limited by a 10h regulated workday. If I could tap into my nightly sleep pattern and continue to develop things while getting a nights worth of rest I'd be a god among men.

Time is my biggest enemy right now. There's not enough of it to accomplish all of my plans / ideas in a timely matter or without downsizing certain projects.

But I guess gaming is also fun?
 

Sentenza

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Dec 3, 2011
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The entire company is set up like a skunkworks org; every single person has autonomy to do what they think will produce a good product. They self-form into teams, build stuff, present it to the rest of the company, see what people think of it.

They internally are an endless stream of prototypes that almost never reach full production. Those who continue to work on their classics do it because that's what they want to be working on.
They actually stated quite recently that there's been a partial reform about this structure, because it clearly wasn't working that well when it came to luring the employees into committing to long-term large scale projects.
Not sure if it's a company-wide reform or something dependent on the project they are working on, but they apparently went back to having a more rigid hierarchy of command on their development cycle.

And about the "office politics", going by what was said by several former employees, that could indeed happen and as usual it bothered some way more than others.

Some people, like Richard Geldreich, really seemed to suffered the stress of the "social hierarchies" . he's still bitching about it on twitters years later, whining incessantly about how he hated to interact with his co-workers, how he disliked that the company offered paid group vacations for employees (even if they are never been mandatory), how he hated worrying about peer-reviews to evaluate bonus earnings, etc.
Others claim that it was one of the best environments and most generous contracts they ever had (Valve pays above industry average and they never do "crunch", for one) but moved on for personal reasons.
 

Sentenza

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I can think of a gazillion better things to do while sleeping. I'm at the peak of my career in terms of creativity and output but I'm still limited by a 10h regulated workday. If I could tap into my nightly sleep pattern and continue to develop things while getting a nights worth of rest I'd be a god among men.
Or more likely completely burned out and driven batshit crazy in a matter of days.

Then again there's no solid reason to argue that this wouldn't happen even for "lucid dream gaming". But at very least it's safe to guess it would be marginally less stressful.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Some people, like Richard Geldreich, really seemed to suffered the stress of the "social hierarchies" . he's still bitching about it on twitters years later, whining incessantly about how he hated to interact with his co-workers, how he disliked that the company offered paid group vacations for employees (even if they are never been mandatory), how he hated worrying about peer-reviews to evaluate bonus earnings, etc.
Others claim that it was one of the best environments and most generous contracts they ever had (Valve pays above industry average and they never do "crunch", for one) but moved on for personal reasons.
Heh; yeah sometimes that kind of culture is hard on people that aren't super social. Feel pressured to go despite them not being mandatory as making friends is going to affect people's impressions of you. They do that crazy week-long trip to Hawaii every year... I'd have a lot of trouble turning that down lol

My company does similar stuff but we are in consulting and spend all of our time at clients, so w/o social stuff we wouldn't get to know any of our co-workers. But there's a similar pressure; if you aren't at the strip club with the GM, will he pass you up for promotion? lol

Interesting stuff in general BTW; I hadn't really talked to anyone on the tech side in a couple of years, have a good friend in a department outside of that who sees some of it but he's not really a part of the general projects going on.
 
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Life

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Jul 25, 2019
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Whatever's coming is probably gonna make hardcore gamers of today seem like casual gamers - when comparing the amount of time these future gamers will spend hooked for hours on end.
Only thing I'm skeptical about is about the size of these worlds. It'll probably take another 15-20 years for a world that is genuinenly big and of high quality to be built.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Jun 24, 2014
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I can think of a gazillion better things to do while sleeping. I'm at the peak of my career in terms of creativity and output but I'm still limited by a 10h regulated workday. If I could tap into my nightly sleep pattern and continue to develop things while getting a nights worth of rest I'd be a god among men.

Time is my biggest enemy right now. There's not enough of it to accomplish all of my plans / ideas in a timely matter or without downsizing certain projects.

But I guess gaming is also fun?
In the book people could do whatever they wanted in a virtual space. It was too much like ready player one so I mothballed it.
 
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The Hamburglar

but get my takes from clown world with Ronald
Mar 6, 2016
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Valve is an absolutely insane company. Raking in billions with only ~300 employees. They spend an enormous amount of money trying to experiment and do new things.

I believe that if this type of tech is possible, Valve is right up there with who would accomplish it.

People complain they don't make sequels to their faves, but it's because they are interested in much bigger things.
People complain because they rake in all that cash from fruits of others but don’t do anything with it.
 

Rex_DX

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Jan 8, 2016
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These threads and articles always over sensationalize like crazy because "using the matrix as a gaming rig" sounds enticing and gets clicks.

The actual tech required for this is decades away at the very least, especially in the non-invasive, magnet-based realm Valve is exploring.

I also see a lot of "but Elon is into it too" posts, and it's true, but let's not forget the company he backed - Neuralink - is just that: "the link." Elon Musk is backing a company to develop technology to transfer information from an outside source to the brain but that's all it is, a delivery system and an invasive one at that, requiring untested, highly experimental brain surgery to implement.

I've been following this stuff for years and I'm passionate about it and want to see it work, but let's not over hype it. It is incredibly unlikely anyone on this forum will be alive to see this applied for entertainment purposes.

The state the tech is in now versus where it would need to be to actually "game in the matrix" is like comparing our current space craft to the Enterprise fucking D.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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People complain because they rake in all that cash from fruits of others but don’t do anything with it.
They pay their employees better than just about anyone, offer insane benefits.. do a ton of experimentation internally.. helped define VR tech, and practically gave it away. Have developed by far the best store experience, including mod management, best in class controller support, APIs, "big screen" functionality.. support the Linux community heavily and have been a key driver for Microsoft being more open.

They just don't make the games some people want.
 

TwiztidElf

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Mar 5, 2005
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I've got my "BCI's" right here tyvm.

 

Torrent of Pork

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Aug 29, 2018
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Gabe Newell in the video Cites that right now "It's more of a certification issue than a Science issue" and that "the problem I (he) has is when to productize one, as opposed to continued learning" he then says "because the rate at which we are learning stuff about this technology is so fast you don't want to prematurely lock yourself into a product"

If you can indeed alter your ability to sleep - and after making that adjustment - sleep for 12 hours straight - immediately - as he is suggesting is possible right now in the video - then the barrier has been met.
A reliable and safe sleep induction machine alone will revolutionize the world.
 
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ZehDon

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Doubtful we see meaningful impact in this space before the decades over. The developments just aren’t coming along at a fast enough pace yet.
 

Khalid M.

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Nov 8, 2018
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I can think of a gazillion better things to do while sleeping. I'm at the peak of my career in terms of creativity and output but I'm still limited by a 10h regulated workday. If I could tap into my nightly sleep pattern and continue to develop things while getting a nights worth of rest I'd be a god among men.

Time is my biggest enemy right now. There's not enough of it to accomplish all of my plans / ideas in a timely matter or without downsizing certain projects.

But I guess gaming is also fun?
You’re already doing this. The brain works on unsolved problems while we sleep. It’s why we wake up with a fresh perspective on things we were thinking about the day before. Time and again I struggle with a project after putting many hours into it only to wrap it up smoothly the next day.

We need sleep for many reasons and because of that it shouldn’t be disturbed by things like gaming while you sleep. Sleep is not wasted time.
 
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Lethal01

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Jun 15, 2019
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You’re already doing this. The brain works on unsolved problems while we sleep. It’s why we wake up with a fresh perspective on things we were thinking about the day before. Time and again I struggle with a project after putting many hours into it only to wrap it up smoothly the next day.

We need sleep for many reasons and because of that it shouldn’t be disturbed by things like gaming while you sleep. Sleep is not wasted time.

That's a load of bull, If we could stay awake 24/7 without needing any breaks we would all be better off.
 

Nhranaghacon

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Sep 15, 2020
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You’re already doing this. The brain works on unsolved problems while we sleep. It’s why we wake up with a fresh perspective on things we were thinking about the day before. Time and again I struggle with a project after putting many hours into it only to wrap it up smoothly the next day.

We need sleep for many reasons and because of that it shouldn’t be disturbed by things like gaming while you sleep. Sleep is not wasted time.
*Cough* When I can go without sleep because I can edit or enhance myself to do so, I gladly will as it is an utter waste of my time. We have nanotechnology now, self replicating - self propelled nanotech - that will eventually allow me to forgo sleep, enhance my own IQ and feel however I'd like. And I look forward to that day.


As far as sleep solving actual real life dilemmas - no.

It may produce images of people or instances/emotions it think's you need to experience so that you may feel that much better as the next day moves on - but dreaming and sleeping does not actually solve out heavy literal dilemmas.

It may mitigate some hormone differently or rest may speed up healing of damaged tissues ect, but sleep's use for solving actual problems is really relegated to healing injuries and tissue damage/blood cell regulation - still does not help regulate issues as effective as your diet and lifestyle considering ailments that can only solve out/be regulated during sleep in the instance of an unhealthy persons - can effectively be completely supplanted by a healthy lifestyle that ensures this person never succumbs to inefficient hormonal adjustment to begin with. Yes I know of the instance where it does impact hormone regulation of white blood cells, and that instance is relegated to those who have completely unhealthy lifestyle's and when living a healthy lifestyle completely negate the benefits of sleep in respect to white bloodcell hormone regulation - particularly in this instance - it underscores just how bad sleep is at in fact solving problems. Why rely on sleep when you could forgo those issues entirely by eating healthy.

The therapeutic benefits outside of feeling rested/slightly better as the day goes on are laughable particularly when compared to living healthy and consuming a healthy diet. So again, sleep is relegated to helping you heal more quickly and recover from numerous injuries and regulating blood cells/hormones - and those benefits typically pale in comparison to a well rounded healthy lifestyle - even if you only practice living healthy 4 days a month those benefits far exceed what sleep may mitigate (the injuries you didn't know you had don't count either, diet and good health practices are far more effective).
 
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Lone Denjin

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Dec 15, 2020
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Brain Interface 1, Brain Interface 2, Brain interface 2:Episode 1, Brain Interface 2:Episode 2. Dead.
 

isoRhythm

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Sep 15, 2020
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Gabe Newell in the video Cites that right now "It's more of a certification issue than a Science issue" and that "the problem I (he) has is when to productize one, as opposed to continued learning" he then says "because the rate at which we are learning stuff about this technology is so fast you don't want to prematurely lock yourself into a product"

If you can indeed alter your ability to sleep - and after making that adjustment - sleep for 12 hours straight - immediately - as he is suggesting is possible right now in the video - then the barrier has been met.
Man I have trouble sleeping and I've always wanted that video game feature where you can set how many hours to sleep instantly...
 

iHaunter

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Sep 6, 2015
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Make Half-Life 3 you morons. Wtf are they doing over there. Who cares about this shit, make more games.
 

The Alien

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Feb 10, 2018
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"Nothing can possib-lie go wrong. Uh, possibly go wrong. That's the first thing that's ever gone wrong."

(Bonus points for quote ID)
 
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DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
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The end of today, is tomorrow dust
I wrote a book (that I never attempted to publish because its meh) a few years ago that was sort of based around the idea that people could "Game" while sleeping. Essentially the tech worked by utilizing implants that allowed people to "Lucid Dream" into a Massively Multiplayer Virtual Universe like the one found in Ready Player One. Its an interesting concept though. I mean, we spend half of our lives sleeping, imagine if we could get that back for entertainment purposes?

Technically, for those of us that CAN lucid dream, you already can get some of that time back.
Although lucid dreaming should be it's own topic, that shit phenomenal to say the least! Something like this for the average consumer, would be done serious next gen stuff.
 
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Hehe, maybe he's chewing out Cyberpunk because he wants to make the first chips we can plug in to our brains
 

Sophist

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Feb 4, 2015
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basement
'There’s always a lighthouse. Always a man. Always a city.’ -- Elizabeth, Bioshock 3

Gabe Newell is the Andrew Ryan/Zachary Comstock of our timeline, he will not build his city undersea on in the skies but right into our minds. You have been warned.

 

Kadayi

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They actually stated quite recently that there's been a partial reform about this structure, because it clearly wasn't working that well when it came to luring the employees into committing to long-term large scale projects.
Not sure if it's a company-wide reform or something dependent on the project they are working on, but they apparently went back to having a more rigid hierarchy of command on their development cycle.

We might actually start seeing regular projects then if that's the case. Was a big Valve Fanboy back in the day, but the abject failure to get their act together and ship Episode 3 in a timely fashion (HL3 is something the gaming press concocted given EP3 was AWOL for so long) I kind of lost my faith in them. Much love for Steam, but I legitimately wish that had been spun off into its own thing because it feels to me that the Steam revenue has just undermined their ability to see projects through.
 

Balducci30

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Mar 11, 2020
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I mean he’s just talking about measuring brain activity with a VR headset. It’s impressive but “BCI”? I’m not gonna let a videogame fuck with my brain I’ve already done enough drugs for a lifetime
 

Khalid M.

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Nov 8, 2018
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That's a load of bull, If we could stay awake 24/7 without needing any breaks we would all be better off.
Ok.
*Cough* When I can go without sleep because I can edit or enhance myself to do so, I gladly will as it is an utter waste of my time. We have nanotechnology now, self replicating - self propelled nanotech - that will eventually allow me to forgo sleep, enhance my own IQ and feel however I'd like. And I look forward to that day.


As far as sleep solving actual real life dilemmas - no.

It may produce images of people or instances/emotions it think's you need to experience so that you may feel that much better as the next day moves on - but dreaming and sleeping does not actually solve out heavy literal dilemmas.

It may mitigate some hormone differently or rest may speed up healing of damaged tissues ect, but sleep's use for solving actual problems is really relegated to healing injuries and tissue damage/blood cell regulation - still does not help regulate issues as effective as your diet and lifestyle considering ailments that can only solve out/be regulated during sleep in the instance of an unhealthy persons - can effectively be completely supplanted by a healthy lifestyle that ensures this person never succumbs to inefficient hormonal adjustment to begin with. Yes I know of the instance where it does impact hormone regulation of white blood cells, and that instance is relegated to those who have completely unhealthy lifestyle's and when living a healthy lifestyle completely negate the benefits of sleep in respect to white bloodcell hormone regulation - particularly in this instance - it underscores just how bad sleep is at in fact solving problems. Why rely on sleep when you could forgo those issues entirely by eating healthy.

The therapeutic benefits outside of feeling rested/slightly better as the day goes on are laughable particularly when compared to living healthy and consuming a healthy diet. So again, sleep is relegated to helping you heal more quickly and recover from numerous injuries and regulating blood cells/hormones - and those benefits typically pale in comparison to a well rounded healthy lifestyle - even if you only practice living healthy 4 days a month those benefits far exceed what sleep may mitigate (the injuries you didn't know you had don't count either, diet and good health practices are far more effective).
Whatever floats your boat.
 

Sentenza

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Dec 3, 2011
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Well yeah, but it's also what we are discussing.
Well, actually no.
The discussion was about the hypothetical of being able to do things in your sleep (a "lucid dream"-like experience).
The jump from that to "getting rid of the need of having any sort of sleep entirely" was something that you made on your own.
 
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