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New Gran Turismo 6 trailers [Complete blowout: All cars/tracks/features/etc]

prarts

Member
Oct 22, 2009
88
0
700
For standard cars and interior view I hope that besides black frame some of the car body is visible, like in PSP GT. I want to see hood.
I understand that they didn`t want us to see it in GT5, because of low res textures on standard cars, that (from such close up) could hurt some picky eyes. So It looks like some cardboard cut and glued to the camera.
 

Xanadu

Banned
Jun 9, 2011
3,952
0
0
agreed
For standard cars and interior view I hope that besides black frame some of the car body is visible, like in PSP GT. I want to see hood.
I understand that they didn`t want us to see it in GT5, because of low res textures on standard cars, that (from such close up) could hurt some picky eyes. So It looks like some cardboard cut and glued to the camera.
a steering wheel would be nice too
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2007
5,624
0
860
thelollyjaraustralia.com.au
Does anyone know why the sound in GT has continued to be just awful? I love the games (have since the first one) but the difference in sound between these games and any other racing games is huge.

Do we have any information or indications on why this has been such a problem? I just find it odd that the sound still seems to be the one thing they refuse to update.
No exact reasons are given, just conjecture and guesses.
There has been a few attempts to understand exactly what's happening and remember a couple of audio engineers replicating techniques possibly used by PD.
It seems that they are using an older style of Procedural Audio where most games use loop based systems. However, a more modern procedural based version called Granular Synthesis may be used by PD for GT7. That could be the new way of doing things that Kaz hinted at earlier on.

Anyway, apart from the engine and exhaust notes themselves, I hope they also look at other effects.
I've seen a lot of games lately incorporating a physics based simulation called driveline flex. Basically, the oscillation between gearbox and engine is captured producing a gearbox 'wobble' either at an initiation of throttle or between gear shifts.
iRacing, pCars, RR, NFS(although the audio drives the physics there), and Forza 5 are examples of games utilizing this or will be in the future.
Other stuff like BOV's, spool, trans whine..etc should be looked at as well.

I don't know if these kinds of corrections will be available for GT6 but surely GT7 will be the holy grail for great sounds in Gran Turismo..
 

Xanadu

Banned
Jun 9, 2011
3,952
0
0
agreed
Wee, generic wheel is inside every standard cockpit and it turns.

I hope they will add bonnets and other outside visible parts as in GTPSP and round the cross-sections. Of course, wipers and proper lights are must and I will be fine.
i mean the actual wheel modelled, i dont care about vents and stuff
 

commedieu

Banned
Jan 10, 2009
27,384
1
0
Yes bullshit because we listen mono in real-life... you need a good setup to have accuracy when you compare what you hear from real-life with something recorded.
yikes..

its like you dont see you're taking to gt die hards, with proper setups and track experience.. the sound in gt is terrible and always has been. the surround sound thing is an excuse that weve all probably used in the vs thread, lol, but its nonsense. the cars dont sound realistic.

I mean, you cant really pretend you're the only one capable of having access to proper sound.. not with gt. please, pd needs to get the game at least sounding like need for speed ffs... right now.

all.of us buy gt, and Always will. but id love gt6 to have sound that is equal to the quality of the sim and visuals.
 

Perkel

Banned
Oct 2, 2010
9,673
0
0
Poland
Does anyone know why the sound in GT has continued to be just awful? I love the games (have since the first one) but the difference in sound between these games and any other racing games is huge.

Do we have any information or indications on why this has been such a problem? I just find it odd that the sound still seems to be the one thing they refuse to update.
Kaz himself said it has to do with small memory pool in PS3. They probably prioritized graphic over all other else.

Moving to tesselated cars should reduce memory footprint due to not needing few LODs models of car in memory. But i doubt GT6 will have every different sounds than GT5.

GT7 on other hand on PS4 will probably have different sounds.

Other problem may be connected to amount of cars. I know therm "consistency" in GT5 is laughable but improving sounds of few would devalue other cars "fun" as only few cars out of 1000 will have proper sound. Rerecording 1000 cars naturally is out of question same as redoing all 1000 cars premium since it would require few years at least with much bigger team of people than PD have.

IMO best case for GT7 would be GT3 like fresh start. PD could then completely focus on delivering best racing game first with ton of features. 150-200 completely new cars all 2012-2013-2014 including normal cars like WV passat or other non racing cars which GT1-2-3-4 was famous for. Thanks to less cars could start from scratch their damage model, livery editor and other features.

Meanwhile when you beat standard GT World Trophy you unlock Legacy Garage where every car from 5-6 is in their not changed form and you can play them as you want in multi or single campain.

Would love to see GT7 like that.
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Aug 1, 2012
9,142
0
510
Kaz himself said it has to do with small memory pool in PS3. They probably prioritized graphic over all other else.

Moving to tesselated cars should reduce memory footprint due to not needing few LODs models of car in memory. But i doubt GT6 will have every different sounds than GT5.

GT7 on other hand on PS4 will probably have different sounds.

Other problem may be connected to amount of cars. I know therm "consistency" in GT5 is laughable but improving sounds of few would devalue other cars "fun" as only few cars out of 1000 will have proper sound. Rerecording 1000 cars naturally is out of question same as redoing all 1000 cars premium since it would require few years at least with much bigger team of people than PD have.

IMO best case for GT7 would be GT3 like fresh start. PD could then completely focus on delivering best racing game first with ton of features. 150-200 completely new cars all 2012-2013-2014 including normal cars like WV passat or other non racing cars which GT1-2-3-4 was famous for. Thanks to less cars could start from scratch their damage model, livery editor and other features.

Meanwhile when you beat standard GT World Trophy you unlock Legacy Garage where every car from 5-6 is in their not changed form and you can play them as you want in multi or single campain.

Would love to see GT7 like that.
Completely agree. Also, PD need to focus on the amount of unique vehicles versus throwing in multiple variations of the same car.
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2007
5,624
0
860
thelollyjaraustralia.com.au
Kaz himself said it has to do with small memory pool in PS3. They probably prioritized graphic over all other else.

Moving to tesselated cars should reduce memory footprint due to not needing few LODs models of car in memory. But i doubt GT6 will have every different sounds than GT5.

GT7 on other hand on PS4 will probably have different sounds.

Other problem may be connected to amount of cars. I know therm "consistency" in GT5 is laughable but improving sounds of few would devalue other cars "fun" as only few cars out of 1000 will have proper sound. Rerecording 1000 cars naturally is out of question same as redoing all 1000 cars premium since it would require few years at least with much bigger team of people than PD have.

IMO best case for GT7 would be GT3 like fresh start. PD could then completely focus on delivering best racing game first with ton of features. 150-200 completely new cars all 2012-2013-2014 including normal cars like WV passat or other non racing cars which GT1-2-3-4 was famous for. Thanks to less cars could start from scratch their damage model, livery editor and other features.

Meanwhile when you beat standard GT World Trophy you unlock Legacy Garage where every car from 5-6 is in their not changed form and you can play them as you want in multi or single campain.

Would love to see GT7 like that.
Absolutely agree.
GT7 should be the drop and redo game. Start fresh, quality over quantity and build back up from there.
 

benzy

Member
Sep 18, 2010
9,133
34
745
Are you guys crazy? Do you know how long it will take GT7 to come out if they start from scratch? lol It's taken them 3 years to create around 200 premium models in-house. And they've already built an expandable engine capable of real-time weather, 24h daytime transition, and adaptive tesselation. Not to mention they've already confirmed they're working on and striving for a breakthrough in engine sounds, similar to what they've achieved with dynamic day to night. They pretty much took a lot of weight off their shoulders coming into next-gen in terms of engine capability and modelling.

This gives them more room to work on physics, improve shaders, enhance their lighting, sounds, game content, etc. They might even be crazy enough to attempt ray-tracing considering the stuff they pulled off this gen.

There's no way they're throwing these models away.



 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Aug 1, 2012
9,142
0
510
Are you guys crazy? Do you know how long it will take GT7 to come out if they start from scratch? lol It's taken them 3 years to create around 200 premium models in-house. And they've already built an expandable engine capable of real-time weather, 24h daytime transition, and adaptive tesselation. Not to mention they've already confirmed they're working on and striving for a breakthrough in engine sounds, similar to what they've achieved with dynamic day to night. They pretty much took a lot of weight off their shoulders coming into next-gen in terms of engine capability and modelling.

This gives them more room to work on physics, improve shaders, enhance their lighting, sounds, game content, etc. They might even be crazy enough to attempt ray-tracing considering the stuff they pulled off this gen.

There's no way they're throwing these models away.



I'm fine with premium models transferring over to GT7. They looks good enough. Standard models on the other hand need to be killed.
 

Nightengale

Member
Jun 12, 2013
21,443
0
440
Unless Kaz is willing to outsource modelling of the cars ( lol ), there's no way they can afford to start from scratch.

Regardless of how technically capable the Polyphony wizards are, a headcount of 110 people cannot match Turn10's headcount of 400+, in terms of the modelling.

Kaz needs to double his headcount, and set up a 2nd team. He's more than earned it, considering how much money he's printed for Sony.
 

Popup

Member
Oct 20, 2007
145
0
0
Unless Kaz is willing to outsource modelling of the cars ( lol ), there's no way they can afford to start from scratch.

Regardless of how technically capable the Polyphony wizards are, a headcount of 110 people cannot match Turn10's headcount of 400+, in terms of the modelling.

Kaz needs to double his headcount, and set up a 2nd team. He's more than earned it, considering how much money he's printed for Sony.
Completely agree. Also, they set their technical goals and promises for GT5 far too high based on the early promises of Cell etc. and then spent far too long trying to achieve that goal. It's almost as if he felt he had to keep that promise and would not budge.

With a wondrous eye for realistic palettes and fantastic lighting, I really wish they had got to work on GT6 for the PS4 instead of the PS3.
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2007
5,624
0
860
thelollyjaraustralia.com.au
Call me cray cray but a next-gen GT on the PS4 is goin to loook super photo-realistic.
No fucking doubt!

In order to get the most out of the next game in terms of quality, sacrifices need to be made. And when I mean sacrifices, I really mean the amount of cars. Trying to capture sound for 1200 cars would be ridiculously hard unless there was a quite good foundation to begin with. Focusing on getting around 500 cars right is 'easier' than 1200 no?

Also, body-kits,wheels,paint,upgrades,tuning..etc could be focused on in greater detail for each individual car if the aforementioned philosophy is applied..

I'm no expert in graphics but models themselves don't need to be touched?
Obviously, other details such as lighting,shaders..etc will be updated.

I don't know, perhaps I'm in the minority there but I really feel PD should be doing a GT3 with GT7..
 

Red Chocobo

Banned
Jan 9, 2013
4,304
2
0
During the production of GT5, Kaz said multiple times that they have "Future-proof" car models that can be used for next generation.

This is good news becasue we know that GT7 on PS4 will have at least over 400 fully detailed cars (Probably up to about 500 by then).
 

ruttyboy

Member
Aug 31, 2010
2,070
0
0
OK, so last night I kind of went a bit crazy. Remember that pic from the Eurogamer PD studio tour with all the model kits in it? I decided I'd go through it with a fine tooth comb and make a spreadsheet to compare it to the GT6 car list to see what else might be in store in the future...

I've got as far as I can with it but I'd love it if GAF GT and those with better car knowledge than myself would help refine it.

Here's an explanation of the columns:

A - GT6 Released Car List
This is the recently released car list for GT6, no edits.

B - Image no.
The number of the corresponding kit from the image. If I have put the number against more than one car it is because I am certain of the make/type but not the specific model. This is where I'm hoping people can help the most.

C - Unsure
A question mark here means I'm really not sure that I've got it right, but I'm in the right area.

E/F - Cars either not on list or I can't identify
Self explanatory, if you think you can identify a car on the GT6 list from the image, please do!

G - In Previous GTs?
I think some of the models that aren't on the list have been in previous GTs but my memory isn't good enough to be sure. Please put which GT they were featured in here if you know as this will make it less likely that they will appear in future I would say.


The document is here.

The reference image is here.


Thanks for any help you are willing to give with this!

PS Apologies for the numbering being a bit crappy in places, a couple of duplicates have separate numbers and I think I forgot 175 altogether...
 

JP

Member
Mar 7, 2010
6,737
169
0
Are you guys crazy? Do you know how long it will take GT7 to come out if they start from scratch? lol It's taken them 3 years to create around 200 premium models in-house. And they've already built an expandable engine capable of real-time weather, 24h daytime transition, and adaptive tesselation. Not to mention they've already confirmed they're working on and striving for a breakthrough in engine sounds, similar to what they've achieved with dynamic day to night. They pretty much took a lot of weight off their shoulders coming into next-gen in terms of engine capability and modelling. ]
Yeah, I mean they've aid before that almost everything in GT5 and GT6 comes from the equivalent of next-gen graphics so they'll likely have really high res models for the cars which they just scale down to that particular console.

There are still some tracks and cars which pretty much come from older versions an I'm sure they'd tidy up some stuff but it should be a lot quicker this time.

I really can't imagine how good Gran Turismo on PlayStation 4 is going to be!!
 

Red Chocobo

Banned
Jan 9, 2013
4,304
2
0
I think I'd rather have a Season Track Pass, if it would save me money.
But what if there are some tracks you aren't interestd in? You will have paid for stuff you don't want. This is why I don't like season passes.

For instance, I never bothered buying Twin Ring Motegi, because I don't like the track. But I got the rest of the DLC tracks. So I saved money.
 

commedieu

Banned
Jan 10, 2009
27,384
1
0
No fucking doubt!

In order to get the most out of the next game in terms of quality, sacrifices need to be made. And when I mean sacrifices, I really mean the amount of cars. Trying to capture sound for 1200 cars would be ridiculously hard unless there was a quite good foundation to begin with. Focusing on getting around 500 cars right is 'easier' than 1200 no?

Also, body-kits,wheels,paint,upgrades,tuning..etc could be focused on in greater detail for each individual car if the aforementioned philosophy is applied..

I'm no expert in graphics but models themselves don't need to be touched?
Obviously, other details such as lighting,shaders..etc will be updated.

I don't know, perhaps I'm in the minority there but I really feel PD should be doing a GT3 with GT7..
i think it's more realistic for pd to capture and digitally reproduce 1 car first. then use a baseline audio setup where v6/I4/v8/I6/ cars etc all sound basically the same, save for cars with unique, notable, differences. Id rather not have sound block variety of vehicles, when it's not exactly recreating the wheel here. just pitch them up and down. non sims offer great sound just fine, that level of fine isnt in gt at all. sure they will still, need to record the audio, or buy it from a third party, but thats what their job is..for some cars. but im willing to bet they could get close enough for a lot of the cars, with a good ear and a good audio engineer.

Pd has really failed back to back with its horrible sound dept, and it does alter the immersion. whatever %, it could be a basic level of better.

its just such an easy solution to majorly upgrade. even if gt had the sound of say grid, or gtav, it would be in better shape than eaach iteration has been audio wise. I dont buy the ps3 memory bit, as other ps2 titles had good sound, that at least sounded close to cars. its the theory behind the way they reproduce the sound, I think.someone mentioned it earlier, they just have to.drop whatever that process is. scrap it.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Aug 15, 2010
10,415
0
0
Unless Kaz is willing to outsource modelling of the cars ( lol ), there's no way they can afford to start from scratch.

Regardless of how technically capable the Polyphony wizards are, a headcount of 110 people cannot match Turn10's headcount of 400+, in terms of the modelling.

Kaz needs to double his headcount, and set up a 2nd team. He's more than earned it, considering how much money he's printed for Sony.
Wait, seriously? How do they make any money at all?
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,527
1
0
They will probably be upscaled GT4 tracks. But I'm not complaining. I just want Seattle back :D
I guess we'll see. So far they haven't added new (GT6 tracks) or DLC tracks (GT5) that are upscaled GT4 tracks. They're always new.
 

Nightengale

Member
Jun 12, 2013
21,443
0
440
Wait, seriously? How do they make any money at all?
150+ full-time staff, rest are outsourced modelers.

As for how they're profiting, who knows? They still average 2 million+ sales per game, so it's not that bad.

Not to mention that all things being said, MS is bankrolling them, so they've got little monetary concerns.
 

Pound_lb003

Member
Mar 17, 2013
4,560
0
0
Even GT5 models are future proof. They just need more polygons, better textures and lighting for next gen.
No... They're actually nigh on perfect.

The assets they've created for photomode have futureproofed the selection of cars they have now. I am pretty certain there are LOD models for in game on the PS3, and the proper high def models for photomode. Although there's not much in the way of difference between the two.

PS4 presumably will use the ridiculous photomode models for gameplay and photomode, but also have even more insane lighting, particle and post processing effects.

Blur, smoke/dust and shadows are going to be amazing in GT7. I can't wait.

I wonder how good damage will be also.
 

Perkel

Banned
Oct 2, 2010
9,673
0
0
Poland
Call me cray cray but a next-gen GT on the PS4 is goin to loook super photo-realistic.
Not needed. Their GT5 lighting system already makes game photorealistic at times.
GT7 will be all about making those moments for longer time.

Are you guys crazy? Do you know how long it will take GT7 to come out if they start from scratch? lol It's taken them 3 years to create around 200 premium models in-house. And they've already built an expandable engine capable of real-time weather, 24h daytime transition, and adaptive tesselation. Not to mention they've already confirmed they're working on and striving for a breakthrough in engine sounds, similar to what they've achieved with dynamic day to night. They pretty much took a lot of weight off their shoulders coming into next-gen in terms of engine capability and modelling.

This gives them more room to work on physics, improve shaders, enhance their lighting, sounds, game content, etc. They might even be crazy enough to attempt ray-tracing considering the stuff they pulled off this gen.

There's no way they're throwing these models away.



You do acknowledge that those models were created with PS3 in mind ? Damage model problem for example comes from PD not creating insides of cars where for example WRC cars did have it.
Lack of livery editor also is connected probably to modeling (them not including it at start).

Imagine now car models created for PS4 with its absurd amount of memory.
 

Ty4on

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,588
0
600
Norway
150+ full-time staff, rest are outsourced modelers.

As for how they're profiting, who knows? They still average 2 million+ sales per game, so it's not that bad.

Not to mention that all things being said, MS is bankrolling them, so they've got little monetary concerns.
Especially now with Forza 5 being 1080p and 60fps T10 looks like a great asset for MS. I've mostly read GAF, but nearly everyone I've seen interested in an Xbox One is also interested in Forza 5.
 

Nightengale

Member
Jun 12, 2013
21,443
0
440
Especially now with Forza 5 being 1080p and 60fps T10 looks like a great asset for MS. I've mostly read GAF, but nearly everyone I've seen interested in an Xbox One is also interested in Forza 5.
T10 has always been an amazing asset to MS, but I always felt like T10 was established to chase after that 10+ million Gran Turismo sales. MS knows that there's that size of an audience for it, but somehow it eludes them despite Forza.

And the big reason for that is obviously the fact that Europe is still largely Playstation-dominated. Europe is where the audience of hardcore racing sims is, and that is where GT thrives.
 

benzy

Member
Sep 18, 2010
9,133
34
745
You do acknowledge that those models were created with PS3 in mind ? Damage model problem for example comes from PD not creating insides of cars where for example WRC cars did have it.
Lack of livery editor also is connected probably to modeling (them not including it at start).

Imagine now car models created for PS4 with its absurd amount of memory.
They modeled the cars so that they exceed what the PS3 is capable of handling in the game. Pretty sure PD models the car parts individually as well; bumpers, hoods, etc. They just have to model more engine bays if they wanted WRC style damage. They don't have to remodel the whole car from scratch.

I also don't understand why they would need to remodel cars just to have a livery editor work. Kaz mentioned there was a basic livery editor that would be shown at TGS, but they never showed anything. I'm pretty sure a livery editor would work on these models if it were on their priority list for GT6.
 

Nightengale

Member
Jun 12, 2013
21,443
0
440
It's the other way around, PD is such a small studio.
It's probably by choice, but I hope that Allan Becker changes the culture enough there to allow them to expand significantly.
Polyphony =/= Japan Studio.

Ignore Becker, I don't think even Yoshida would want to force change into Polyphony without Kaz's acceptance of it.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,527
1
0
You do acknowledge that those models were created with PS3 in mind ? Damage model problem for example comes from PD not creating insides of cars where for example WRC cars did have it.
Lack of livery editor also is connected probably to modeling (them not including it at start).

Imagine now car models created for PS4 with its absurd amount of memory.
They're future proofed, so they're above what the PS3 is actually capable showing (so these are scaled down models compared to the higher end ones that they have)

The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.
http://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/
 

Perkel

Banned
Oct 2, 2010
9,673
0
0
Poland
They modeled the cars so that they exceed what the PS3 is capable of handling in the game. Pretty sure PD models the car parts individually as well; bumpers, hoods, etc. They just have to model more engine bays if they wanted WRC style damage. They don't have to remodel the whole car from scratch.

I also don't understand why they would need to remodel cars just to have a livery editor work. Kaz mentioned there was a basic livery editor that would be shown at TGS, but they never showed anything. I'm pretty sure a livery editor would work on these models if it were on their priority list for GT6.
Because livery editor is not trivial to do for so many cars. Using same paint for all of car is vastly easier for hardware than creating multilayered livery. You can see that easly in Forza 3 where livery editor was robust, cars in photomode had amazing liveries created by community but in real gameplay it was low res texture because probably T10 didn't have budget to get high res.
Consoles are not PC where you can add things. PD already mentioned they had problems with memory budget.

PS4 should give PD a lot of breathing room to implement features and thanks to that they will improve their car creation pipeline
 

benzy

Member
Sep 18, 2010
9,133
34
745
Because livery editor is not trivial to do for so many cars. Using same paint for all of car is vastly easier for hardware than creating multilayered livery. You can see that easly in Forza 3 where livery editor was robust, cars in photomode had amazing liveries created by community but in real gameplay it was low res texture because probably T10 didn't have budget to get high res.
Consoles are not PC where you can add things. PD already mentioned they had problems with memory budget.

PS4 should give PD a lot of breathing room to implement features and thanks to that they will improve their car creation pipeline

That's just a paint material and memory problem. Not the actual 3D car model itself.