Support NeoGAF

[ziran]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14327

Microsoft considers entering handheld market

Ellie Gibson 09:45 27/01/2006

Moore says Xbox brand offers opportunity

News has emerged that Microsoft may consider developing its own handheld gaming device which also plays music and movies - despite many previous statements to the contrary.

According to Business Week, Microsoft has already set up a team to look at the pros and cons of such an idea. Although Xbox boss Peter Moore would not confirm this, he did tell the website that if such a device is to go into development, "It can't just be our version of the iPod."

As a result, the multimedia device would also play games - and would be marketed under the Xbox label. "I think the brand is an opportunity," Moore said.

Whether such a device will ever make it to market remains to be seen. Microsoft has repeatedly stated in the past that it has no interest in producing handheld hardware, since the company already makes a healthy profit selling handheld editions of Windows to hardware developers.

However, as the Nintendo DS and the Sony PSP continue to sell well, and the popularity of the iPod shows no sign of waning - more than 65 per cent of handheld devices sold in the US last year were Apple products - it's not inconceivable that Microsoft could be seeking a piece of the pie.

It's sounding more and more possible MS will make a multimedia/games handheld similar to the PSP.

 

[DDayton]

You know, with TWO major companies who seem intent to sell hardware at a major loss, I'm almost starting to think a new "gaming crash" might be coming...

 

[Companion Cube]

I bet it's going to have one big bright sexy touch screen. It'll be too hot to handle. Literally! AMIRITE!?

 

[Acosta]

World of Warcraft

Do you want to doom humankind or what? A portable WoW will be a disaster for productivy and human relationships all over the world

i think alot of companies are overshooting the importance of the handheld market.

It´s Apple´s fault. You can´t blame them to try to take a pie of it at their own terms. But they don´t need only the right machine, but the righ business model.

I think it´s a good way to spread the videogame market. I believe portability is the best way to get the casual market.

 

[Zerodoppler]

I bet it's going to have one big bright sexy touch screen. It'll be too hot to handle. Literally! AMIRITE!?

Touch screen that can detect multiple pressure points would be a winner.

 

[duckroll]

Here's a big warning to anyone replying to the posts higher up.

THIS THREAD IS SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS OLD!!!!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Borys]

what

Oh wait this is fucking ancient.

 

[Companion Cube]

Does post 64 count as anything?

 

[Jacobi]

This qould be a great opportunity to burn some
more money

 

[kaizoku]

It would be so horrible if Microsoft dominated any side of teh console war. Really. I would be concerned if they entered the fray there and started doing better in the consoles. Not nice to have one company in your home in so many important elements.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I know this guy, who knows this other guy, who knows this other guy and he said

 

[Sunski]

Here's a big warning to anyone replying to the posts higher up.

THIS THREAD IS SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS OLD!!!!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Check the post that bumped it before laughing like a looney!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

EDIT: Nice edit there damn you!

 

[Nightbringer]

Meltdown2005

 

[mckmas8808]

You know, with TWO major companies who seem intent to sell hardware at a major loss, I'm almost starting to think a new "gaming crash" might be coming...

TWO??? Didn't Sony post profits in the Playstation side of their business, while the PS2 sales hw and sw wise declined.

 

[bengraven]

Aren't they losing a shitload of money on the Xbox? Why would they go handheld? Wouldn't Bill be better off adding that money to his already huge amount of charity cash?

But I've heard time and again that MS does not want to enter the handheld market, saying that Nintendo and Sony can duke it out themselves. That said, never say never. And frankly, a dual-analog sticked handheld would be nice (because you know they wouldn't make the same mistake as Sony, since half the best MS games are FPS).

Halo on the go.

 

[Nerevar]

why the HELL was this thread bumped for this non-news? It's a completely one-sided look at the story from gamesindustry and totally ignores the other half as it was recently reported (I think in Wired, got the link off Digg yesterday). Basically, MS has put together a team to look at the pros and cons of creating their own portable media device to compete with Apple, not to compete with the Sony PSP. Then they interviewed Moore who basically said "oh, it has to play games too!". There are a number of people in the company opposed to this for very good reasons, such as how it would kill off their effort to use third parties to push their software (like Napster) without taking a risk on the hardware, effectively completely stopping their current strategy.

 

[ziran]

why the HELL was this thread bumped for this non-news? It's a completely one-sided look at the story from gamesindustry and totally ignores the other half as it was recently reported (I think in Wired, got the link off Digg yesterday). Basically, MS has put together a team to look at the pros and cons of creating their own portable media device to compete with Apple, not to compete with the Sony PSP. Then they interviewed Moore who basically said "oh, it has to play games too!". There are a number of people in the company opposed to this for very good reasons, such as how it would kill off their effort to use third parties to push their software (like Napster) without taking a risk on the hardware, effectively completely stopping their current strategy.

because i don't think it is non-news and was worth posting, but didn't deserve a new thread.



edit - i've had a quick look on wired but wasn't able to find the article, does anyone have a link for the source?

 

[EviLore]

Create a new thread next time.

 

[Lo-Volt]

I hope that new gamesindustry article ends up being wrong. I know the American economy is widely considered to be resilient, but I wonder about the ceiling in the American handheld market anyway. The PSP, Nintendo DS and the increasingly expensive home console race are all vying for attention, and what happens to developers and publishers who suddenly have more work to do? Is Microsoft really considering another market that takes time to develop when their main attraction for video gaming is having such a hard time?

 

[SnakeXs]

PSP/DS am doomed. Sell 'em all! Run for the hills!

 

[ziran]

Create a new thread next time.

okay.

it's sometimes difficult to know on gaf because so many old threads get bumped. i figured i would get a load of 'this isn't worth a new thread' posts (if i created a new thread).

i apologise for any confusion.

 

[Raistlin]

MS is already pretty damned close to being in the handheld game industry. They play crucial roles in Nokia's, Tapwave's, Tiger's, and various PDA makers' hardware.

If MS decides to open a revenue stream from handheld games, I bet they would enforce a spec, a feature spec, and license it out to external parties who would advertise their own spins of the platform.

Lets say they call their new gaming setup PocketX. Microsoft advertises PocketX akin to their advertising of Windows XP. It's spec requires some things, so all games and apps are developed on a centralized platform.

Creative likes the idea, and licenses PocketX. Their iteration of it is a high-end media player going directly at Apple's (GPod) and Sony's (PSP) throats.

Nokia also licenses it, merging it with their (defunct) NGage line and the other phones in that series. Their spin on it is a phone with some media capability, and exclusive games.

Dell licenses it, and their form is an inexpensive gaming machine that doubles as a huge MP3 jukebox.

Sega licenses it and makes a more dedicated, small, inexpensive game machine with limited media capability and full web browsing capability.

etc. etc.

I think that model would work well if they expanded their dev force, and perhaps even purchased a company with experience in that field.

I'd personally LOVE the idea if they used online distribution, and you would not have to scour malls and game shops for the game you want, and pay exorbitant prices for custom media.

However, it would be hard to develop a lot, and persuade devs to develop a lot, while keeping focus on the Xbox 360. They'd do better asking devs to just port a great amount of content from consoles and other handhelds to their platform.

While this idea sounds good at first, I think it has its legs kicked out in a few areas.

A portable system anywhere near the power of PSP is pretty expensive to produce. Sony has two advanatages in such a scenario.

1) Fabbing - None of the companies you mentioned have the capability to manufacture as great of a percentage of the parts as Sony can. This instantly increases their costs versus Sony.

2) Business Model - (in gaming at least) Sony creates HW in order to sell SW, be it games or media. As such, they are able to sell the hardware without profit (or at a significant loss initially), due to a model that generates money though their own games, licensing fees, and possible other media and services (Connect).

Aside from Apple (iTunes), none of the other companies you mentioned have a really strong base for such a model. Sure, Sega can make some money on their games, but without licensing - is it enough?

Basically, the companies you site historically make money from their HW, something that would not be able to occur in this case. That is, unless they plan to actually sell the HW at a pricepoint that would shrink their market to nearly nothing.



Even if Microsoft shared licensing fees with everyone, it is unlikely it would generate enough revenue to be able to bring the HW costs to a friendly level for all of them. They would all still have the same/similar HW costs, but the revenue pie slices would be divided amongst them.



This entire scenario is simply the PC model applied to portable gaming. The difference is, people consider PC's valuable enough to purchase them from vendors that actually profit from the HW sale. Would people be willing to do the same for a portable? I doubt it - since they aren't even asked to do it on consoles.

 

[DCharlie]

Yeah, my first question would definitely be "Who cares?"

People who want to play 16 player Halo on the go?

 

[koam]

I expect something bulky and non-practical.

 

[FiRez]

 

[Piper Az]

I would consider it if it has:

1. DS like flip design with a thin width
2. widesreen on the top flap
3. controller buttons on the bottom flap with a QWERTY keypad in the center
4. full capability of portable Windows Vista (web, music, email, video, etc)
5. wireless network with pc and xbox 360

 

[E-Nature]

I expect something bulky and non-practical.

 

[PolyMan]

 

[Mrbob]

You know, with TWO major companies who seem intent to sell hardware at a major loss, I'm almost starting to think a new "gaming crash" might be coming...

PSP has been sold for a profit since summer from all reports. Sony just does a great job in tricking people they are losing a ton of cash on their systems.

I wouldn't min seeing an Xbox portable, but I hope it doesn't happen. Right now between the PSP and DS (and GBA), we don't need another portable to clutter the market. Besides, MS needs to focus on getting the Xbox brand a major power in homes first.

And this is OLD........

 

[Lord Error]

If MS decides to open a revenue stream from handheld games, I bet they would enforce a spec, a feature spec, and license it out to external parties who would advertise their own spins of the platform.

Lets say they call their new gaming setup PocketX. Microsoft advertises PocketX akin to their advertising of Windows XP. It's spec requires some things, so all games and apps are developed on a centralized platform.

That already exists in two variations: Pocket PC (called Windows Mobile nowadays I think) and Windows Media Center interface, that is again licensed to the likes of Creative and such. The article describes how that method hasn't quite worked so far, so Microsoft is considering something more along the lines of ipod.

 

[mckmas8808]

I would consider it if it has:

1. DS like flip design with a thin width
2. widesreen on the top flap
3. controller buttons on the bottom flap with a QWERTY keypad in the center
4. full capability of portable Windows Vista (web, music, email, video, etc)
5. wireless network with pc and xbox 360

All for $300?

 

[AniHawk]

Someone told me they played this.

 

[ziran]

i'd like a games machine/computer handheld that would also play dvd/cds, like a scaled down xbox the size of a few cd cases.

probably not practical or possible yet, but i think i would get good use out of it.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I like the idea of something thats first and foremost a media player and then a simple XBLA player second. Something you could sync with a game/media store on 360. That'd be nice.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Except who would want to name a portable xbox!?? So much for the Xbox brand.

 

[Piper Az]

All for $300?

PSP already does much of these except for the Mobile Windows Vista and QWERTY, and it sells for ~$250. Since Vista is developed by MS, I can imagine that they could include it without increasing the price much.

Make it happen MS. It would be the ultimate portable computing unit.

 

[Shogmaster]

My design IM not so HO, is the best course for MS handheld:



Basically, you sell two seperate units (just like X360): The core unit, and the HDD add on. The core "game" unit is $120 for best market penetration, and is your familar gameboy Advance SP set up with better screen, wifi and alot more power (3.4" 320x240 TFT, 200MHz ARM9 CPU + MBX with VGP, 16MB of RAM). I did incorporate a dual analog nub set up in my design so that 3D shooters will actually be workable in controls. It has both a game card slot and a SD slot for music and video playback as well as game saves.

The $240 40GB HDD add on basically turns the whole thing into a iPod beating MP3/PMP. Now, $240 for a 40GB HDD add-on might sound too expensive, but that includes an extended battery, a wired remote for MP3/PMP functionality, head set, and PC/X360 USB connector/dock kit. The $360 total price for the duo (yeah, har har) is still competitive against $299~$399 iPod video.

Now imagine that with this device, MS also extends the XBLA to mobile territory, allowing for downloadable games via WiFi in the XBoy, or via docking to X360 or PC. This will bring those $5~15 indy dev/retro games to it's most apt medium: a handheld system. Circumventing the brick and mortar distribution, these ideal for handheld games can reach prices that would make purchases more likely and make the consumer feel much less ripped off (a great example is Bust A Move on PSP, which was approximately 16MB in total size but was shipped on a 1.8GB medium and was going for 50 freaking bucks!).

MAKE THIS HAPPEN MS!

 

[ronito]

Just how much money does MS think the average gamer has?

 

[xsarien]

PSP has been sold for a profit since summer from all reports. Sony just does a great job in tricking people they are losing a ton of cash on their systems.

And Sony can do it because nearly every bit of the PSP is their own technology manufactured in their own factories, except for the LCD. Microsoft doesn't have that benefit.

It'll be interesting to see how it does in the wake of the Gizmondo, that...other all-in-one that died a quick and silent death, and how Microsoft would make it stand out among every other PMP out there not called an iPod.

The lesson from Apple is that it's about good software, better content, and a user experience that would make your grandmother comfortable using the product. Nobody seems to get that among the cries of, "But the iPod doesn't have as many features!"

 

[Joe]

only way i see it happening is if it is only a portable xbox live arcade machine with music and movie playback.

if this does happen i expect to see a new blade on the 360 dashboard with an itunes clone occupying the space.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

The lesson from Apple is that it's about good software, better content, and a user experience that would make your grandmother comfortable using the product. Nobody seems to get that among the cries of, "But the iPod doesn't have as many features!"

I have an iPod, the 60GB Video player one.

Anapod is better software, it doesn't support WMA, booo. I'll give you the wheel though. It's a painless process

 

[xsarien]

I have an iPod, the 60GB Video player one.

Anapod is better software, it doesn't support WMA, booo. I'll give you the wheel though. It's a painless process

It's not Apple's fault you picked a Windows specific format.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

It's not Apple's fault you picked a Windows specific format.

It offers better encoding than M4A or MP4

 

[xsarien]

It offers better encoding than M4A or MP4

Good for WMA, that's still no reason for Apple to support a Microsoft technology. MP3 is still the dominant format.

 

[metropolis]

where the hell is that soup i made?
i know i cooked it... it was beef stew.. and now it's gone. i thought i put it by the computer.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

if M$ enters handheld market, DS would be assured victory.

 

[Speevy]

Please don't, MS.

Nintendo or Sony needs to learn a lesson on their own.

 

[Bowen_B]

if M$ enters handheld market, DS would be assured victory.

QFT
They would be in competition with the PSP but not the DS.

 

[open_mouth_]

My design IM not so HO, is the best course for MS handheld:



Basically, you sell two seperate units (just like X360): The core unit, and the HDD add on. The core "game" unit is $120 for best market penetration, and is your familar gameboy Advance SP set up with better screen, wifi and alot more power (3.4" 320x240 TFT, 200MHz ARM9 CPU + MBX with VGP, 16MB of RAM). I did incorporate a dual analog nub set up in my design so that 3D shooters will actually be workable in controls. It has both a game card slot and a SD slot for music and video playback as well as game saves.

The $240 40GB HDD add on basically turns the whole thing into a iPod beating MP3/PMP. Now, $240 for a 40GB HDD add-on might sound too expensive, but that includes an extended battery, a wired remote for MP3/PMP functionality, head set, and PC/X360 USB connector/dock kit. The $360 total price for the duo (yeah, har har) is still competitive against $299~$399 iPod video.

Now imagine that with this device, MS also extends the XBLA to mobile territory, allowing for downloadable games via WiFi in the XBoy, or via docking to X360 or PC. This will bring those $5~15 indy dev/retro games to it's most apt medium: a handheld system. Circumventing the brick and mortar distribution, these ideal for handheld games can reach prices that would make purchases more likely and make the consumer feel much less ripped off (a great example is Bust A Move on PSP, which was approximately 16MB in total size but was shipped on a 1.8GB medium and was going for 50 freaking bucks!).

MAKE THIS HAPPEN MS!

very nice. good job.

 

[Excelion]

celphone/digicam/mp3player/20gbflashdrive/slide-upTFTscreen/windowsmobile6. launch in 2009, 500€.