New interview with Cerny, goes into detail about PS4 hardware

phosphor112

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Thanks to danhese007 for sending onQ123 this article so he can tell us about it :)lol).

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html

I wish someone can do a proper translation for us, it is really worthy of a new thread. If someone can contribute to us non-Japanese speakers.

Anyway, this is basically what I got from this:
  • They don't use HSA (I THINK) but their own optimizations because AMD wasn't ready or something? But they are using OpenGL to the point of "full access to the hardware."
    It's not saying 'it doesn't use HSA'. It's saying it doesn't 'just' use off-the-shelf HSA stuff.
  • They mention having to drop BC as being a necessary evil to make sure devs will be happy going forward.
  • They used what they learned from the Cell to make a powerful console. The did this by having to modify the GPU, etc (via ACE for proper compute processing).
  • He also talks about 4k gaming, and he said they are focusing on 1080p, but he did say that they can, for example, put the OS UI in 4k, but render the game in 1080p.
  • With that, he says they'd like to save as many resources as possible to ensure that 1080p because having the 4k UI alone will take 10 GB/s.
  • They also said support for CD was dropped because of how the new DVD/BD player reads the data? (speed?) Redacted
    A correction was made to the article saying that the drive can read CD's--the system just won't support playback of music CD's.
  • He also mentions the custom on CPU chip and monitors all I/O systems (confirms ARM TrustZone).
  • Mentions background downloads and smaller initial sizes and play while downloading.
  • He mentions using BD and Hard drive combo for game reads and how to cut down load times.
  • Cerny also discusses the dedicated audio and video compression/decompression hardware for sharing videos and vita remote play.
  • The Android/iOS Playstation App lets you access all things Playstation. Store, game info, etc.
  • Regarding adding Vita remote play: "almost no overhead, without pain whatsoever, you will be able to Remote Play a game of PS4."
  • So basically all PS4 games can be played on Vita EXCEPT those who use controller tracking or Move with the PS Eye.
  • They also talk about off-TV play.
  • Not all features will be there day one, but they will try to support everything they are planing going forward.
  • Also, OS is BSD, so they can make full use of multi-tasking.

There is a lot of info here and some of it is hard to decipher, but I did the best that I could. If someone would like to contribute, just post them here and I'll edit OP.

A few more tidbits from gofreak that add more info:
Couple of other tidbits:

the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of 'game compatibility' - so maybe PSone discs wil be playable..?

Cerny says the OS is BSD-based. To support rich multitasking. I'm not really sure of the significance of the 'BSD-based' comment, or how much of its BSD roots will be exposed to the consumer, but Cerny says it's the first time they used that approach in a games machine.

The idea of a secondary chip for low-power-state usage started to be talked about in 2009. European regulations around power consumption were part of the motivation.
 

Ghazi

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Sounds nice, I hope 4k doesn't turn into a bottleneck for them. I know they're saying that 4k is the future, but they also said that about Cell and look what happened there.
 

Crimson_Gold

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I wonder which Vita-PS4 features will be there day one and which will be addressed in the future. Glad to hear that there is no overhead for Remote Play. Wouldn't be surprised if long distance Remote Play is something that we will have to wait for. Especially since the PS4 was designed with streaming to the Vita in mind.

Overall, a lot of positive info. Really want to see more of the OS though. The mention of multitasking features has me believing that we will be seeing a lot of services on the PS4 as well.
 

noobasuar

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Very dangerous to release a console without any sort of BC in the current video-game climate.

I guess we'll see if it work's out for them, but I think it could blow up in their faces.
 

Meelow

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Sounds nice, I hope 4k doesn't turn into a bottleneck for them. I know they're saying that 4k is the future, but they also said that about Cell and look what happened there.
PS4 hardware will focus on 1080p games while videos can be 4k, no game will be 4k because like phosphor112 said, 4k requires a high bw.

I'm thinking next gen (9th gen) we will start getting 4k games.
 
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BSD means stable kernel, low footprint( less than 512 MB is doable), and standard POSIX threads. They also don't have to release source code like a linux OS would be required to do.
 

Ghazi

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He basically said they'll stick with 1080p for the most part because 4k requires such high BW. It will have 4k video playback though.
PS4 hardware will focus on 1080p games while videos can be 4k, no game will be 4k because like phosphor112 said, 4k requires a high bw.

I'm thinking next gen (9th gen) we will start getting 4k games.
That's good, glad to see that they've actually thought all of this through rather than rushing it to attempt to have better features and etc.
 
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I wonder which Vita-PS4 features will be there day one and which will be addressed in the future. Glad to hear that there is no overhead for Remote Play. Wouldn't be surprised if long distance Remote Play is something that we will have to wait for. Especially since the PS4 was designed with streaming to the Vita in mind.

Overall, a lot of positive info. Really want to see more of the OS though. The mention of multitasking features has me believing that we will be seeing a lot of services on the PS4 as well.
I am strong believer in that Sony has satisfied gamers in Feb´s announcement, that at E3 Sony will make entertainment/apps etc.... a key part in their presentation.
 

Aquamarine

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  • They don't use HSA (I THINK) but their own optimizations because AMD wasn't ready or something? But they are using OpenGL to the point of "full access to the hardware."
    [*]They mention having to drop BC as being a necessary evil to make sure devs will be happy going forward.
  • They used what they learned from the Cell to make a powerful console. The did this by having to modify the GPU, etc (via ACE for proper compute processing).
  • He also talks about 4k gaming, and he said they are focusing on 1080p, but he did say that they can, for example, put the OS UI in 4k, but render the game in 1080p.
  • With that, he says they'd like to save as many resources as possible to ensure that 1080p because having the 4k UI alone will take 10 GB/s.
  • They also said support for CD was dropped because of how the new DVD/BD player reads the data? (speed?)
  • He also mentions the custom on CPU chip and monitors all I/O systems (confirms ARM TrustZone).
  • Mentions background downloads and smaller initial sizes and play while downloading.
  • He mentions using BD and Hard drive combo for game reads and how to cut down load times.
  • Cerny also discusses the dedicated audio and video compression/decompression hardware for sharing videos and vita remote play.
  • The Android/iOS Playstation App lets you access all things Playstation. Store, game info, etc.
  • Regarding adding Vita remote play: "almost no overhead, without pain whatsoever, you will be able to Remote Play a game of PS4."
  • So basically all PS4 games can be played on Vita EXCEPT those who use controller tracking or Move with the PS Eye.
  • They also talk about off-TV play.
  • Not all features will be there day one, but they will try to support everything they are planing going forward.
  • Also, OS is BSD, so they can make full use of multi-tasking.
Hmm.
 
"Regarding adding Vita remote play: "almost no overhead, without pain whatsoever, you will be able to Remote Play a game of PS4."

"They also talk about off-TV play."

YES

Sounds nice, I hope 4k doesn't turn into a bottleneck for them. I know they're saying that 4k is the future, but they also said that about Cell and look what happened there.
4K gaming is for the gen after next gen. Mainstream 4K tvs, gpu's that can handle 4K will be common in 6-7 years time.
 

Cidd

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BSD means stable kernel, low footprint( less than 512 MB is doable), and standard POSIX threads. They also don't have to release source code like a linux OS would be required to do.
So does the OS using only 512MB rumor seems more possible now with this new info?
 

whitehawk

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Sounds nice, I hope 4k doesn't turn into a bottleneck for them. I know they're saying that 4k is the future, but they also said that about Cell and look what happened there.
4K will be there, but very limited. I'm guessing 4K for videos, photos and the UI (UI maybe). There will also likely be a few 4K tech demo "games" on the
PSN store to test out.
 

Crimson_Gold

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I am strong believer in that Sony has satisfied gamers in Feb´s announcement, that at E3 Sony will make entertainment/apps etc.... a key part in their presentation.
I believe so as well. Games, services, and possibly some peripherals. I expect to learn more about the PS Eye and controller tracking for sure.
 

benny_a

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Why do I have a hard time believing that's true? :p
Why don't you believe that?

Dropping the cell which is unanimously considered to be hard to take advantage of vs. the PS4 architecture is which is based on a very widespread platform.
 

Alchemy

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PS3 backwards compatibility absolutely is a problem. The Cell simply isn't cheap to produce, and software emulation of the PS3 is simply impossible at this point. The PS3's hardware architecture is just a horrible pain in the ass to deal with for everyone.
 

noobasuar

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Because they're using the same chips as Sony? And it can't emulate the 360?
I've seen plenty of people around here saying that it could realistically be done but whatever if MS doesn't have it either, than so much worse for them too.
 

Orca

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I wonder which Vita-PS4 features will be there day one and which will be addressed in the future. Glad to hear that there is no overhead for Remote Play. Wouldn't be surprised if long distance Remote Play is something that we will have to wait for. Especially since the PS4 was designed with streaming to the Vita in mind.

Overall, a lot of positive info. Really want to see more of the OS though. The mention of multitasking features has me believing that we will be seeing a lot of services on the PS4 as well.
I'd like to see more on the OS, but I'd most want to hear which of these concepts are going to be there at launch and which are just 'one day we'd like to' ideas.

I just hate being pitched a bunch of stuff and then at the end the guy goes 'well of course not all that will be there day one, but we're planning on rolling things out as time goes on' to cover their ass.
 

AwRy108

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Thanks to danhese007 for sending onQ123 this article so he can tell us about it :)lol).

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html

I wish someone can do a proper translation for us, it is really worthy of a new thread. If someone can contribute to us non-Japanese speakers.

Anyway, this is basically what I got from this:
  • Not all features will be there day one, but they will try to support everything they are planing going forward.

There is a lot of info here and some of it is hard to decipher, but I did the best that I could. If someone would like to contribute, just post them here and I'll edit OP.

A few more tidbits from gofreak that add more info:
This is the part that concerns me the most. As the owner of a two-job PS3, it has been one big game of playing catch-up right out of the gate. PS4-Vita remote play sounds glorious, but I'll won't give two shats about it if they take years to roll it out. I understand the need for the ability to evolve, but that doesn't excuse the removal of features from the checklist of selling points for early adopters/enthusiasts.
 

Valkyr Junkie

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Hopefully some of the peripheral specs on that data sheet (like HDMI and Bluetooth) get a bump before the final model goes to production.
 

Zoe

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So as gofreak said, there was an amendment to the article after the fact regarding CD playback.

During the interview, Itou said that the drive does not have the capability to read CD's but that games are a different case. The clarification states that the drive has the capability to read CD's, but the PS4 itself does not support music CD playback.
 

gofreak

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So no HSA ? Let's hope their solution will work.
I'm not sure it says that (although, tbh, we'd have to get on the same page about what 'HSA' means, since it's really an umbrella term for so many different things...). He talks about HSA and seems to say that an option for longer term roadmap is one language that can work on CPU and GPU, but that at the moment they're offering the regular high level APIs + full hardware access. But a good translation would be useful there...

Oh. That's clever. I've not come across that before. It's a sound idea.
:) I think any game running off a machine with a hard disk is already doing this. I think he was just describing how discs cache data in a discriminative way to the hard disk as an analogy for explaining how progressive download tech works.
 

noobasuar

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just look at those wiiU sales, people really want to play their wii games!
IDK I guess I see it differently when your upgrading to a new system that has practically the same controller that's not making some SD to HD jump. I think most consumers will wonder why the should pay >$400 for something that has a small library that does practically what the old console did.
 

Raonak

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Very dangerous to release a console without any sort of BC in the current video-game climate.

I guess we'll see if it work's out for them, but I think it could blow up in their faces.
I think this gen proved that it really doesn't matter much. People buy new consoles to play new games. I told my more casual gaming friends about no BC and they treated it as a non issue since they'd still have their ps3s.
 

statham

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Bluray and harddrive at the same time great, never thought of that. The Vita-play sounds good too, and should help Vita to sell better.
 
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Yes. It means they are using technology proven to be low footprint as opposed to writing their own OS.
That would be very dumb. There should at least be 1GB reserved for OS so Sony won´t have their hardware bottleneck in 3-4 years. Future proofing the OS should be really important for Sony.