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New Nikkei articles shares some information about the situation at Konami

Opto

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Sep 24, 2013
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Across 4 platforms, there should be a healthy profit but goddamn 80 million.
 

Boke1879

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All I'll say is this. Konami approved whatever the budget was for MGSV. They are part of the issue as well.

With the way they've been treating other producers I feel they were going to part ways with Kojima anyway and this provides a very convenient reason to do so.
 

duckroll

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It's worth noting that the article is also framed around Konami being the "Kozuki Empire". It concludes with the observation that patriarch Kagemasa Kozuki founded the company and remains the chairman of the company, while his son Takuya Kozuki is president. Other members on the board of directors related the family are Kimihiko Higashio, Kozuki's nephew, and Fumiaki Tanaka, Kozuki's son-in-law. In total, four out of the seven internal directors are family members. Not unusual in Japan, and honestly Asia at large, but that's probably a contributing factor to management and transparency issues.
 

Broank

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Wasn't MGS4 around 80 million?

I'm sure Konami had an internal date for Phantom pain to come out but I'm glad Kojima never publicly said a date. He must have known the game wouldn't meet their deadline


That stuff tends to get inflated a lot of times, I mean Destiny reportedly cost 500 million but I highly doubt that. From what I remember a Konami person said MGS4 was nowhere near that and I heard stuff about it being in the 40m range.

Although 80m seems about right for the amount of time they worked on MGS5 along with the years working on Fox engine and everything.
 

Crazymoogle

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Some of the sources are flimsy.

They are always going to be flimsy because nobody discloses budgets. But I would say that while $80m is expensive, it's not a shocking, fire and brimstone number given what KojiPro was trying to achieve. The tweets paint a picture that Konami is willing to burn down the console house to go to what they perceive as a far safer mobile environment - that it's cheaper to kill their IP than pursue a mixed platform strategy.
 

ranmafan

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Jun 7, 2004
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@iiotenki

Employees deemed useless have been known to do assemblyline work, security guard detail, cleanup at fitness clubs.

OK reading this gives me vibes of the old NOVA eikaiwa school situation back in 2007, which I never would wish on anyone. Seriously that is crazy the more we hear about whats going on at Konami.
 

KingBroly

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Mar 18, 2015
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I don't know if I believe MGS5 being delayed is what forced Kojima out. Considering Ground Zeroes came out just over a year ago, I have to think they made some money to tide Konami over.

It just sounds like Konami's higher ups went ape shit over gambling, and started forcing others out to cut production costs.
 

Pepsiman

@iiotenki on Twitter!
Apr 1, 2012
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Hi, I'm @iiotenki on Twitter!

Just wanted to pop in and thank OP for citing my stuff; I'm used to people to lifting my work without credit more than I should be these days. duckroll got the very last bit that I hadn't covered already, so I'll consider my own summarizing job to be done here since I was mostly focusing on the areas that general audience people would care most about.

I still have translation work to do tonight, so I probably won't be super talkative anywhere, but... yeah. Glad I could be of help! c:
 

Callibretto

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All I'll say is this. Konami approved whatever the budget was for MGSV. They are part of the issue as well.

With the way they've been treating other producers I feel they were going to part ways with Kojima anyway and this provides a very convenient reason to do so.
The game got delayed and had I assume troubled development. Whatever Konami approved at the beginning is probably not what they wnd up spending. By the time the game end up being delayed, they had no options other than push it through the end instead of canning the project losing millions already invested in the game
 

TheSeks

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Feb 14, 2009
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80 million- they would need to sell something like 3 million copies at full price just to break even.

Jesus, what the fuck were they thinking?!?

Yeah, but the Witcher 3 wasn't intended to have a "middleware" engine a la Fox Engine to be able to be licensed to Japanese AND Western devs for sandbox development on 5(!) platforms. I'm not surprised that Fox Engine development ballooned costs a bit, but I'm honestly wondering where most of that budget went since the engine shouldn't be that expensive to develop.
 
Hi, I'm @iiotenki on Twitter!

Just wanted to pop in and thank OP for citing my stuff; I'm used to people to lifting my work without credit more than I should be these days. duckroll got the very last bit that I hadn't covered already, so I'll consider my own summarizing job to be done here since I was mostly focusing on the areas that general audience people would care most about.

I still have translation work to do tonight, so I probably won't be super talkative anywhere, but... yeah. Glad I could be of help! c:

Thanks for making those translations in the first place :)
 

tuxfool

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Oct 21, 2014
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Hey Stevens i see you took a 60m45s lunch

If you want ridiculous see Canon installing alarms in the hallway to startle people that are walking too slowly.

http://gizmodo.com/5273192/canon-employees-are-forbidden-to-sit-down-walk-at-normal-pace
 

Inuhanyou

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Jul 26, 2014
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Kojima only uses top of the line poop gags. You get what you pay for.

In all seriousness though, it's no wonder he's on the street now. That's a ton of money to spend on a title like MGS.

That most likely includes the costs associated with development of fox engine as well as marketing.

FYI MGS4 just for the game itself was 70+.

In the end it seems like their mobile and slot machine successes created an environment where the core gaming pockets of Konami were resented more and more. The President has been on more than one occasion been claimed to have become extremely obsessed about transforming the company to the point of being intolerable.

They refused to let anyone work on projects that weren't mobile and forced out those who weren't cooperative. Its a simple story.
 
Aug 24, 2009
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Yeah, but the Witcher 3 wasn't intended to have a "middleware" engine a la Fox Engine to be able to be licensed to Japanese AND Western devs for sandbox development on 5(!) platforms. I'm not surprised that Fox Engine development ballooned costs a bit, but I'm honestly wondering where most of that budget went since the engine shouldn't be that expensive to develop.

Actually, if the 70 million figure for MGS4 is true, costs didn't really balloon at all. Mocap, development for 3-5 years, and known actors = $$$
 

Boke1879

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The game got delayed and had I assume troubled development. Whatever Konami approved at the beginning is probably not what they wnd up spending. By the time the game end up being delayed, they had no options other than push it through the end instead of canning the project losing millions already invested in the game

As a gamer if the game needed to be delayed so be it. Too many games are rushed to meet a deadline.

Also reading more Konami punished employees for liking statuses on Facebook? WTF?!
 

duckroll

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I think it said you need a credit card or something to sign up for free account.

I don't think so. Free accounts just have a limit on how many articles they can access per week/month or something like that.
 

Pepsiman

@iiotenki on Twitter!
Apr 1, 2012
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I think it said you need a credit card or something to sign up for free account.

You don't. The registration system is a bit hairy, but there's a column you can click for an explicitly free account and then it's pretty straightforward from there. To actually read the article after registration, you have to click a button confirming you want to spend one of your 10 free article reads at the bottom of the page.
 

Reveirg

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Jan 31, 2011
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Really? I work in dev and the only thing thats ever required of me is to deliver on time, on spec and be available if there are impediments. Thats it.

Same for me actually, and that's how it should always be! =D

But I've seen the opposite before.
 
Apr 13, 2014
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As of April, 80 million.
Pulling some guesswork out my ass. The last push tends to be the crunch and surely will add a chunk to the total. And this is presumably no marketing costs so far?

I guess Konami decided high-stakes 100 mil investments that could go very sour was their breaking point for console development. Given their successes with their other ventures, I can't say that they are making a mistake with this refocusing.
 

Modest Mauser

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People surprised at $80 million? Mocap, known actors, huge open world, new engine. It's still not even that much for a modern AAA game.
 

TomShoe

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Oct 27, 2013
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That stuff tends to get inflated a lot of times, I mean Destiny reportedly cost 500 million but I highly doubt that. From what I remember a Konami person said MGS4 was nowhere near that and I heard stuff about it being in the 40m range.

Although 80m seems about right for the amount of time they worked on MGS5 along with the years working on Fox engine and everything.

Destiny's budget is $500MM over 10 years. People just love bringing the number up without context to make a point.
 

ArtHands

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80 million- they would need to sell something like 3 million copies at full price just to break even.



Jesus, what the fuck were they thinking?!?
but 80million is a small price to many
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1085348

He's worth all the money, IMO.

Lol, Konami have the money. They are fools to throw him away for that. I'm sure he made them enough with his games to cover it and then some.


He's the Top Gear of game development. Throw money at him because the return investment will be huge. Shame on you, Konami.

But fuck all the money he actually brings in for Konami, though. Right?
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Dec 5, 2005
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It still kinda sounds like "mobile happened", because in light of the easier money other companies were making in mobile, a delay of a big console vanity project would just make management feel stupid.

They were bound to tighten the purse strings...
 

SolidSnakex

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Jun 7, 2004
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Yeah, but the Witcher 3 wasn't intended to have a "middleware" engine a la Fox Engine to be able to be licensed to Japanese AND Western devs for sandbox development on 5(!) platforms. I'm not surprised that Fox Engine development ballooned costs a bit, but I'm honestly wondering where most of that budget went since the engine shouldn't be that expensive to develop.

This game has likely been in development since 2010 on some level since that's when Peace Walker was released. So that's a rather long development cycle. On top of that it's a massive open world game, and open world games tend to be really expensive to make because of all the assets you have to build. And considering how detail oriented Kojima is, that's going to be a lot of assets. Then you've got teams in both America and Japan building the game. Then they brought in Sutherland, who wouldn't be cheap. I don't think it's surprising that it cost so much.
 

stryke

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Oct 1, 2011
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They are always going to be flimsy because nobody discloses budgets. But I would say that while $80m is expensive, it's not a shocking, fire and brimstone number given what KojiPro was trying to achieve. The tweets paint a picture that Konami is willing to burn down the console house to go to what they perceive as a far safer mobile environment - that it's cheaper to kill their IP than pursue a mixed platform strategy.

I'd be willing to believe a figure coming out of nikkei but some of the stuff on the wiki page is terrible. For example, the source behind MGS4 -


No legit source doesn't mean we take anything we get without due diligence.
 
May 19, 2005
25,274
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$80 million for a AAA production for MGS that's being released on PS3/360/PS4/Xone/PC years in development and 8 years since the last home console Meta Gear Solid release?

Sounds about right.

Shoot, the Tomb Raider reboot was $100 million.
 

NEO0MJ

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Aug 8, 2010
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you don't think the game will sell more than 3 million? please.

MGS4 sold around 6 million in the end, I can see this doing at least 9. I think part of the problem for Konami was like others said they'd rather spend that sort of money on developing cheap mobile and slot games that sell just as well and can be developed much faster.

People surprised at $80 million? Mocap, known actors, huge open world, new engine. It's still not even that much for a modern AAA game.

I wouldn't say it's not much for a AAA game. Even in the west not many hover above that, at least excluding marketing.
 

Guymelef

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Sep 19, 2007
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Hi, I'm @iiotenki on Twitter!

Just wanted to pop in and thank OP for citing my stuff; I'm used to people to lifting my work without credit more than I should be these days. duckroll got the very last bit that I hadn't covered already, so I'll consider my own summarizing job to be done here since I was mostly focusing on the areas that general audience people would care most about.

I still have translation work to do tonight, so I probably won't be super talkative anywhere, but... yeah. Glad I could be of help! c:


Thanks for your work!.
 

Callibretto

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Nov 9, 2007
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80 million- they would need to sell something like 3 million copies at full price just to break even.

Jesus, what the fuck were they thinking?!?
Huh, that didn't sound that bad actually. They also had ground zeroes sales, then Sony and NVidia must have paid something to get Ground Zero for ps+ and nvidia gpu. Special or limited edition sale where it cost higher than normal full price, and Metal Gear had a shit ton of merchandising and cross promotion with many other brands.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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I knew FF7 was expensive to make, but 3rd highest of all time? Wow...

lol @ Destiny and Too Human being at 5th and 7th.

Deadpool at 11th? They didn't even sell the game that long after release because of licensing...

14th spot; 90 million spent on a dead Halo MMO? Yikes.


OT: This entire debacle really brings me down, most of it stemming from Konami's antics. I can somewhat understand a few of the business-minded decisions they're trying to make, but man, some of this stuff is real cold. I feel like we're never gonna get anything else like MGS V after it comes out at this point.
 

Boke1879

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Apr 25, 2013
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It still kinda sounds like "mobile happened", because in light of the easier money other companies were making in mobile, a delay of a big console vanity project would just make management feel stupid.

They were bound to tighten the purse strings...

That's all it is really. The mobile route is cheaper and more profitable. Just look at how they are pushing everyone out. Not to mention it just seems like a toxic environment to work in anyway.
 

Doctor_Thomas

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May 27, 2013
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You know, I don't think there's ever going to be another MGS game on consoles/PC.

Or Castlevania... or Contra....
 

dddooozzz9

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May 13, 2014
299
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Hi, I'm @iiotenki on Twitter!

Just wanted to pop in and thank OP for citing my stuff; I'm used to people to lifting my work without credit more than I should be these days. duckroll got the very last bit that I hadn't covered already, so I'll consider my own summarizing job to be done here since I was mostly focusing on the areas that general audience people would care most about.

I still have translation work to do tonight, so I probably won't be super talkative anywhere, but... yeah. Glad I could be of help! c:

Thanks for your work.