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New Oboro Muramasa pics! 2D awesomeness! :o

ReiGun

Member
Aug 10, 2008
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Linkzg said:
this game doesn't have any motion controls, right? can I use my classic controller?
If I recall correctly, you can use classic controller or the wiimote sideways. No motion controls.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
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Hero of Legend said:
Reply from XSEED: <snipped>
what?!

they're not giving it the sega shiren treatment? what a missed opportunity! this is madness!
 

Lime

Member
Apr 27, 2008
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If this game doesn't use motion controls, why wouldn't Vanillaware port it over to, say, PC or 360/PS3?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
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Lime said:
If this game doesn't use motion controls, why wouldn't Vanillaware port it over to, say, PC or 360/PS3?
Here we go!
 

Haunted

Member
Nov 16, 2006
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The alchemy and inventory systems in Odin Sphere were absolute torture for me. The game would've been much better if it just concentrated on being a beautiful, beautiful 2D brawler, imo. Which is why I hope the action-heavy impression turns out to be true. (Sorry phoenix :p)


Lime said:
If this game doesn't use motion controls, why wouldn't Vanillaware port it over to, say, PC or 360/PS3?
Budget, probably.

Halycon said:
Although accessing items was tedious I had lots of fun with the Alchemy system.
gah, don't quote me before I'm done editing. :p I thought it was clunky and cumbersome, destroying the pace of the game. I pretty much hated it.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
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Haunted said:
The alchemy and inventory systems in Odin Sphere were torture, there's no debating that.


The game would've been much better if it just concentrated on being a beautiful, beautiful 2D brawler. Imo, of course. Which is why I hope the action-y impression turns out to be true. (Sorry phoenix :p)



Budget, probably.
Although accessing items was tedious I had lots of fun with the Alchemy system.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
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Haunted said:
The alchemy and inventory systems in Odin Sphere were absolute torture for me. The game would've been much better if it just concentrated on being a beautiful, beautiful 2D brawler, imo.
luckily it was pretty much that ; )
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
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btw, i just fired up odin sphere to refresh my memory and see how awesome oboro is turning out, and just for kicks i tried counting the parallax layers on one of the stages - i counted 14 layers. but it warrants saying that it was one of the more 'bland' stages with less lush (read: sized) layers.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Haunted said:
The alchemy and inventory systems in Odin Sphere were absolute torture for me. The game would've been much better if it just concentrated on being a beautiful, beautiful 2D brawler, imo. Which is why I hope the action-heavy impression turns out to be true. (Sorry phoenix :p)

It's fine. :p I can understand why you'd prefer a brawler but you have to realize that you'd be asking for a different game all together. But I do agree on the sluggish inventory. I mean I know that the game is called Odin SPHERE but come on! I'm just curious did the people in the thread hated Odin Sphere and its gameplay or were just disappointed because they were expecting much more of it or something else? I mean usually when people hate/dislike a game that was hyped they just constantly crap on it (I.E. Too Human), even if the game had potential the sequel gets crappe don (Red Steel 2) so what seperates Odin Sphere from the rest?

Halycon said:
Although accessing items was tedious I had lots of fun with the Alchemy system.

This for me.

blu said:
luckily it was pretty much that ; )

...not really...
 

Zabka

Member
Apr 7, 2006
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Flying_Phoenix said:
It's fine. :p I can understand why you'd prefer a brawler but you have to realize that you'd be asking for a different game all together. But I do agree on the sluggish inventory. I mean I know that the game is called Odin SPHERE but come on! I'm just curious did the people in the thread hated Odin Sphere and its gameplay or were just disappointed because they were expecting much more of it or something else? I mean usually when people hate/dislike a game that was hyped they just constantly crap on it (I.E. Too Human), even if the game had potential the sequel gets crappe don (Red Steel 2) so what seperates Odin Sphere from the rest?
I liked Odin Sphere a lot but I hated the Stamina system and the slowdown during boss fights was just unacceptable.
 

Joule

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Oct 4, 2007
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Flying_Phoenix said:
Also I do disagree with some of what you say. The zoning usually tied into manipulating the positions of enemies, depending on the tactic the player set out. And I thought that Mercedes, Gwendolyn, and Velvet all played fairly differently.

Though I am aware of the games faults. While those 3 were fairly different the other 2 felt kind of pointless. The Pooka just felt too run-of-the-mill as a power guy where you'd just reuse his spin attack over and over. And do I REALLY need to even get started with the Shadow Knight (I forgot his name). I mean really he was easily the most useless character of the 4. I'm not sure what you mean by stunning enemies, though my memory of the game isn't that fresh since it's been a while since I've played it.

Also I was really disappointed with the magic skills as you were. They were pointless most of the time and didn't mesh well with the character.
I'm just of the opinion that more could of been done to differentiate the four melee characters as my experience with them were a little too similar in each respective Book.

I wouldn't say Cornelius was a power character since his spin attack wasn't particularly powerful and iirc he learned Overload later than most. Oswald was generally the worst, his basic 3 part attack had the worse ending strike with him jumping in. Offensively he wasn't really better than anybody else since he didn't learn Overload iirc, his Shadow Form was just Overload supplement with some minor drawbacks.

Stunning as in putting the enemy into hit-stun. You know how early enemies could be put into hit-stun with just one or two hits and as you went on it became harder to stun enemies unless you hit them during a certain sequence in their attack (eg. the Dwarves' long recoveries after their overhead axe strikes).

The Psypher skills were useful but just everybody had the same ones for the most part and of course used them in the same way.
 
Jun 27, 2006
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Game looks great, I haven't played Odin's Sphere though. I'll be getting it if I get a Wii (The purchase idea isn't finalized yet)

I'd love to see a PS3/360 port down the line, just the game upscaled to 720p.
 

TreIII

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May 15, 2006
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Joule said:
The Psypher skills were useful but just everybody had the same ones for the most part and of course used them in the same way.

...And it's stuff like this, which makes me glad that there are basically only two characters this time.

With two chars, there's a higher chance that VW may be able to put more "balanced diversity" into each character, instead of trying to be all over the place, like with what I felt was the case in Odin Sphere.

Loved Odin Sphere, but it was definitely a "flawed work of art".
 

Eric_S

Member
Jun 20, 2005
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I love their use of blacks:



(That effect looks better in the video)
 

Lime

Member
Apr 27, 2008
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Halycon said:
Here we go!

It wasn't an attempt at creating some teenage "system warz". I was just curious, since I don't have a Wii.

I can't believe that asking about the possibility of multiplatformity has come to being suspected/identified as instigating an immature comparison between consoles.
 

blu

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May 4, 2007
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Lime said:
It wasn't an attempt at creating some teenage "system warz". I was just curious, since I don't have a Wii.

I can't believe that asking about the possibility of multiplatformity has come to being suspected/identified as instigating an immature comparison between consoles.
technically speaking, ps2 would not have the oopmh to do it *scratches out ps2 port*, and the hd consoles would need hd art assets, which is the bulk of the effort in a game like oboro. unless you're ok with playing oboro upscaled from 640x480 *puts a question mark next to ps360*.

practically speaking, in the console world when you want a game badly, you buy the device to play it.
 
Jan 17, 2007
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ultim8p00 said:
Yeah I know. How can you think that boxart is terrible. The ninjas are on the side, not the middle, and there's like a big Orange-looking sun in the middle top with all these creamy looking colors all over the place. The ninjas have their blades out so it's like they were slicing you some fucking awesome ninja cheesecake or something. Man, I really really like that boxart.

I'm not talking about the two main characters on the side ninjas. I'm talking about the little blobs of black ninjas in the middle! They detract from the awesome artwork that is so horribly placed on the side, and all I end up seeing are the stupid blobby ninjas in the middle the fucking MIDDLE, fool!!

And I'm NOT talking about what the characters are DOING. I'm talking about the COMPOSITION. do you NOT know what COMPOSITION means? It does not mean COLOR, it does not mean ACTION. It means PLACEMENT, and where the eye is drawn to.

Ever heard of Rule of Thirds? This breaks the rule of thirds = bad composition.

Whatever. Game do want. Do we have an official thread yet?
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
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Dash Kappei said:
So it's 50Hz optimized (no black borders/speed issues)?
no idea - i have the ntsc version.
 

Agalloch

Member
Jun 18, 2008
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Wow.
This is 2d & art love, looks better than a lot of 3d games of this gen to me.
I need more 2d good games, can you hear me Capcom, Konami
, Nintendo, Squenix ?
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Zabka said:
I liked Odin Sphere a lot but I hated the Stamina system and the slowdown during boss fights was just unacceptable.

I thought the stamina system added some more depth to the game, but I do agree that it was an annoyance as well as made the Shadow Prince unplayable (I some times felt that I'd have a better chance winning a Third Strike tournament with Sean then beating all of the shadow ice monsters in the arctic map). And while I felt the slowdown didn't totally deteriorate the game as it had the Gradius III effect, I'd prefer it without it (also it was just ridiculously unacceptable during the land of the dead map when you used the light potion). I'm glad it was fixed for the PAL release, though I think the slowdown was due to hardware hence why when its played with a 60GB PS3 it disappears. Muramasa shouldn't have a problem with this with the far easier to develop and significantly more powerful Wii.

Joule said:
I'm just of the opinion that more could of been done to differentiate the four melee characters as my experience with them were a little too similar in each respective Book.

I wouldn't say Cornelius was a power character since his spin attack wasn't particularly powerful and iirc he learned Overload later than most. Oswald was generally the worst, his basic 3 part attack had the worse ending strike with him jumping in. Offensively he wasn't really better than anybody else since he didn't learn Overload iirc, his Shadow Form was just Overload supplement with some minor drawbacks.


You have a point with Cornelius, but remember it usually takes about 2 to 3 hits to kill most people anyway. I think it was they way he moved and attacked that made him so offensive. Oswald was the worst due to two reasons: His horrid stamina for his special attack and as you mentioned the jumping in end strike. Made him nearly unplayable for most battles.

Joule said:
Stunning as in putting the enemy into hit-stun. You know how early enemies could be put into hit-stun with just one or two hits and as you went on it became harder to stun enemies unless you hit them during a certain sequence in their attack (eg. the Dwarves' long recoveries after their overhead axe strikes).

The Psypher skills were useful but just everybody had the same ones for the most part and of course used them in the same way.

Ahh yes stunning. I used it a lot with the dwarfs but not much with most other characters. And I only used my psypher skills during emergencies as I rationed them for the boss battle. I usually played the game by setting up a strategy of who to defeat first and luring in enemies (usually resulted in driving them away from one another or putting them toward together).
TreIII said:
...And it's stuff like this, which makes me glad that there are basically only two characters this time.

With two chars, there's a higher chance that VW may be able to put more "balanced diversity" into each character, instead of trying to be all over the place, like with what I felt was the case in Odin Sphere.

Loved Odin Sphere, but it was definitely a "flawed work of art".

Pretty much. Again as I've said it's no surprise since what it was doing was so radically new, but compared to most games we play today where the genres are so developed the flaws of Odin Sphere are very easy to see.

Rufus said:
With what? It's sensible question. I guess it's already been answered though. (Budget, maybe sales potential as well.)

It's far harder to upscale a game to more powerful hardware especially if its 2D because it is usually harder (I say usually because its easier with certain vector sprites). Developers would have to fine the textures and give more detail to the models. And with 2D it makes it far harder as you would need to drastically touch up every sprites so it doesn't look pixelated when put into a higher resolution since 2D graphics are made up of pixels. Even if they did use vector sprites or 3D models the best you'd usually get would be a budget port since they're so small. Why do you think console to PC ports get so much hate despite usually being superior to their console counterparts? It's because they aren't optimized for the gameplay style as well as the hardware.

radiantdreamer said:
Whatever. Game do want. Do we have an official thread yet?

Do you people think I should make one since I'm probably the biggest fan of the series on Gaf?
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Feb 9, 2007
15,494
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Agalloch said:
Wow.
This is 2d & art love, looks better than a lot of 3d games of this gen to me.
I need more 2d good games, can you hear me Capcom, Konami, Nintendo, Squenix ?

It would be nice to have a Castlevania or metroid with this kind of sprite work.
 

Saint Gregory

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Jan 4, 2006
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blu said:
technically speaking, ps2 would not have the oopmh to do it *scratches out ps2 port*, and the hd consoles would need hd art assets, which is the bulk of the effort in a game like oboro. unless you're ok with playing oboro upscaled from 640x480 *puts a question mark next to ps360*.

practically speaking, in the console world when you want a game badly, you buy the device to play it.

Actually I'm pretty sure it was confirmed in the TGS thread that Vanillaware has HD assets for both OS and OM if they needed them for a HD port. The real barrier to Oboro Muramasa being ported is that neither of the HD consoles are doing well enough in Japan to warrant a port.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Saint Gregory said:
Actually I'm pretty sure it was confirmed in the TGS thread that Vanillaware has HD assets for both OS and OM if they needed them for a HD port. The real barrier to Oboro Muramasa being ported is that neither of the HD consoles are doing well enough in Japan to warrant a port.

Aren't Vanillaware's graphics vector and not pixel (I.E. Done in Illustrator as oppose to pixel by pixel)? I'd imagine it would be pretty easy if the detail transfers over to HD. Then again if it doesn't then it would be pretty time consuming adding the extra detail to all of the frames.
 
Jan 17, 2007
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Flying_Phoenix said:
Aren't Vanillaware's graphics vector and not pixel (I.E. Done in Illustrator as oppose to pixel by pixel)? I'd imagine it would be pretty easy if the detail transfers over to HD. Then again if it doesn't then it would be pretty time consuming adding the extra detail to all of the frames.

Vector? Seriously?! That's pretty amazing work then. I've never seen vector work look so artistically painterly.
 

Saint Gregory

Member
Jan 4, 2006
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Flying_Phoenix said:
Aren't Vanillaware's graphics vector and not pixel (I.E. Done in Illustrator as oppose to pixel by pixel)? I'd imagine it would be pretty easy if the detail transfers over to HD. Then again if it doesn't then it would be pretty time consuming adding the extra detail to all of the frames.
For some reason I always thought all their work was drawn and colored by hand and then scanned to create their art assets. I found this old interview with Jouji Kamitani where he definitly makes it sound that way but you could be right.

Also, he specifically talks about HD development here:

Kamitani-san said:
When the resolution becomes high, you have to paint over heavily in a precise and steady way. That's tough for me personally (laughs).
Because there are problems with the execution and expressions that I gave up on because of time [constraints] in Odin Sphere and Grim Grimoire, I can have my revenge on those problems, if the specs go up.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,342
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Saint Gregory said:
For some reason I always thought all their work was drawn and colored by hand and then scanned to create their art assets. I found this old interview with Jouji Kamitani where he definitly makes it sound that way but you could be right.

Is it really possible to get that kind of shading with vector graphics? I could easily believe vector on something like Castle Crashers but not Muramasa.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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radiantdreamer said:
Vector? Seriously?! That's pretty amazing work then. I've never seen vector work look so artistically painterly.

Vector is my little own term when they use vector sprites. Basically they're sprites done in Photoshop or Illustrator like Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. It's far easier to do then pixel art as well as easier to work with (easily scales up with resolution) and depending on the quality of the sprite and model it can be easier to create then 3D models. Hence why HD Remix was made by a small team (note: it was delayed so long because of the bugs and lag, not because of the graphics).

Saint Gregory said:
For some reason I always thought all their work was drawn and colored by hand and then scanned to create their art assets. I found this old interview with Jouji Kamitani where he definitly makes it sound that way but you could be right.

Also, he specifically talks about HD development here:

If all the sprite creators do is paint and draw then Marvelous's previous claims that "it's hard to find people who still know how to create sprites and work with 2D" is utter bull.

ZealousD said:
Is it really possible to get that kind of shading with vector graphics? I could easily believe vector on something like Castle Crashers but not Muramasa.

Well he drew and painted the graphics so it isn't vector like I thought. Though with talent anything is possible with vector graphics, just as with pixel as well as painted.

Also I think I'll create an official thread for this game. The mods won't care that there is this thread already right since it's just about the pictures? (or was suppose to be)
 

Saint Gregory

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Jan 4, 2006
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Flying_Phoenix said:
If all the sprite creators do is paint and draw then Marvelous's previous claims that "it's hard to find people who still know how to create sprites and work with 2D" is utter bull.
They could have been talking about finding artists who understand how to do consistent and contiguous art animation in games which certainly seemed to be a problem with SSFTHD early in development.

Flying_Phoenix said:
Also I think I'll create an official thread for this game. The mods won't care that there is this thread already right since it's just about the pictures? (or was suppose to be)
Go for it man. The game is slated for April isn't it? That should give you plenty of time with the two week rule.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Saint Gregory said:
They could have been talking about finding artists who understand how to do consistent and contiguous art animation in games which certainly seemed to be a problem with SSFTHD early in development.

The thing is I don't really see the difference between that and a cartoon. Then again what cartoon is as artistic as Vanillaware? As for SSFTHD well the problem was the small amount of cast. Remember Capcom themselves didn't care for the game as Sirlon stated that he was the only one who seemed to care. Remember all the bug and lag problems they talked about as well? Also I wouldn't be surprised if most artists would prefer to work elsewhere. I mean working for a niche video game isn't exactly awe inspiring to most artists.


Saint Gregory said:
Go for it man. The game is slated for April isn't it? That should give you plenty of time with the two week rule.

"Two Week Rule"?