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New Oboro Muramasa pics! 2D awesomeness! :o

Volcynika

Member
Dec 17, 2007
21,317
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
"Two Week Rule"?

Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).
 

Saint Gregory

Member
Jan 4, 2006
14,146
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
The thing is I don't really see the difference between that and a cartoon. Then again what cartoon is as artistic as Vanillaware? As for SSFTHD well the problem was the small amount of cast. Remember Capcom themselves didn't care for the game as Sirlon stated that he was the only one who seemed to care. Remember all the bug and lag problems they talked about as well? Also I wouldn't be surprised if most artists would prefer to work elsewhere. I mean working for a niche video game isn't exactly awe inspiring to most artists.
That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...

Volcynika said:
Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).
Yep. Most get locked if they're created too soon.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Saint Gregory said:
That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...

Well it seems that the Wii is in some way are progressing back up in the console space with this, Wario, probably the next Power Instinct, and Super Paper Mario as well as the tons of 2D ports like the enhanced port of Broken Sword, Guilty Gear XX ^ Core Plus, Phantom Brave, etc.

Volcynika said:
Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).

Ahh so it's too soon to create a thread since it doesn't come out until April?
 

Saint Gregory

Member
Jan 4, 2006
14,146
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
Well it seems that the Wii is in some way are progressing back up in the console space with this, Wario, probably the next Power Instinct, and Super Paper Mario as well as the tons of 2D ports like the enhanced port of Broken Sword, Guilty Gear XX ^ Core Plus, Phantom Brave, etc.
I hope that with the low dev costs that 2D can find a new home on Wii but it'll take a really big hit (SPM wasn't really 2D in a traditional sense) to make that happen. Honestly if I read tomorrow that Nintendo had forged a long time development deal with Production IG the joy would make me faint.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,342
2
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
Ahh so it's too soon to create a thread since it doesn't come out until April?

Yes. Wait until you have an actual date and post it two weeks before. If you want to get started on creating it, go find an old post of yours or something and edit it.
 

Saint Gregory

Member
Jan 4, 2006
14,146
0
0
ZephyrFate said:
I heard Odin Sphere sold just as much when it was released here.
I really hope that VM still makes a profit on their games with them selling such a small amount as they deserve every penny.

On a side note I'm glad that you grabbed that avatar since it works so well with your username. I'd make more but trying to get the gifs under the avatar rule size is so hard. My avy originally had Kisuke sheathing and unsheathing his sword before I was forced to cut it down.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Saint Gregory said:
I hope that with the low dev costs that 2D can find a new home on Wii but it'll take a really big hit (SPM wasn't really 2D in a traditional sense) to make that happen. Honestly if I read tomorrow that Nintendo had forged a long time development deal with Production IG the joy would make me faint.

The thing is that the reason 2D "doesn't sell" or "mix well" with consoles is because in the past (and even now besides the Wii) all consoles had immersion and realism as a selling factor. 2D is very bad at these things because developers have rarely pushed the dimension itself. Regardless "making it as close to real-life or a movie experience as possible" is what really hurt 2D. If you look at gaming from the Playstation on in a retrospective, nearly all the big games for these systems had a realistic or cinematic look to them in both graphics, atmosphere, and presentation. Yes there are some exception like cell-shaded beauties as Dark Cloud 2 or artistically unique styled as Psychonauts but these games are usually few and far inbetween. 2D gaming on the other hand did allow fully 360 degree exploration nor could it display realistic or cinematic like graphics without them being pre-rendered. The immersion, realism, and cinematic approach to games has been something the industry has followed without disruption from the Playstation to the present.

There is also the fact that 2D gaming hasn't fed the consumer. Most 2D games are still either traditional fighting games or retro 16-bit throw backs. These genres haven't been popular or even moderately appealing to the market since the mid-90's. You see games like Super Smash Bros. Brawl rank in millions in sales. You see tons of MMO hits such as Maple Story. Yet 2D developers don't follow due to them following their ego or not having the funds to create such an epic title.

This is one of the reasons why I enjoy Vanillaware's games especially Odin Sphere. They're something new and fresh. Cinematic. And truly feel like a modern production valued 2D experience.

ZephyrFate said:
I heard Odin Sphere sold just as much when it was released here.

It sold a tad bit more in North America (like 105k). It's a Greatest Hits title though so doesn't that mean it crossed the 400k barrier world-wide?

Saint Gregory said:
I really hope that VM still makes a profit on their games with them selling such a small amount as they deserve every penny.

"VM" I assume you mean Vanillaware? Well "Odin Sphere" is a Greatest Hits game. Though Grimgrimoire didn't fair that well in Japan, though I think NiS pushed shipments for the US version for a while.
 

ZephyrFate

Banned
Jun 24, 2008
14,214
0
0
www.paeantodreams.wordpress.com
Yeah, I heard somewhere between 105k and 120k in NA, which is surprisingly good for a niche title and even better for an Atlus title (where any game that isn't Persona doesn't sell all that well).

Odin Sphere made about 400-450k worldwide, which I definitely think turned a lot of profit for MMV. I hope Oboro Muramasa does the same.
 

Saint Gregory

Member
Jan 4, 2006
14,146
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
The thing is that the reason 2D "doesn't sell" or "mix well" with consoles is because in the past (and even now besides the Wii) all consoles had immersion and realism as a selling factor. 2D is very bad at these things because developers have rarely pushed the dimension itself. Regardless "making it as close to real-life or a movie experience as possible" is what really hurt 2D. If you look at gaming from the Playstation on in a retrospective, nearly all the big games for these systems had a realistic or cinematic look to them in both graphics, atmosphere, and presentation. Yes there are some exception like cell-shaded beauties as Dark Cloud 2 or artistically unique styled as Psychonauts but these games are usually few and far inbetween. 2D gaming on the other hand did allow fully 360 degree exploration nor could it display realistic or cinematic like graphics without them being pre-rendered. The immersion, realism, and cinematic approach to games has been something the industry has followed without disruption from the Playstation to the present.

IIRC Sony specifically blocked 2D games from one of their systems early (can't remember if it was PS1 or PS2 though) in an attempt to push 3D. I love my playstations but I'm still irked by that.

And yeah, I was trying to shorten Vanillaware into VW but for some reason I keep typing VM :/
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Saint Gregory said:
IIRC Sony specifically blocked 2D games from one of their systems early (can't remember if it was PS1 or PS2 though) in an attempt to push 3D. I love my playstations but I'm still irked by that.

And yeah, I was trying to shorten Vanillaware into VW but for some reason I keep typing VM :/

It was the PS1. SONY also negotiated with publishers that they could only release a 2D game in a series if it had extra features or/and if the company made a 3D version of it.

Just watch the G4 Icons Episode of Megaman where it states just that. That's why the PS1 version of Megaman X6 (or was it X7) had the boss listings and info in the games menu while the Saturn version didn't, that's also why Megaman Legends was made because SONY kept pressuring Capcom to make a 3D Megaman.

ZephyrFate said:
Yeah, I heard somewhere between 105k and 120k in NA, which is surprisingly good for a niche title and even better for an Atlus title (where any game that isn't Persona doesn't sell all that well).

Odin Sphere made about 400-450k worldwide, which I definitely think turned a lot of profit for MMV. I hope Oboro Muramasa does the same.

Which is more then most JRPG's (RPG's in general) sell, further proving my point that 2D games in general don't sell because they don't have as an impressive presentation as 3D games as oppose to most thinking its just the graphics.

I have faith that Muramasa will sell more. "Odin Sphere" was very well received by critics and gamers (well gamers who don't post on Gaf at least as the game has very high user scores on sites) as well as being on a more "2D friendly" console. I expect 500k - 550k when all is said and done.
 

FightyF

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
16,250
0
0
www.myspace.com
Saint Gregory said:
That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...

2D games are becoming more common on the PC and Xbox 360 platforms.

Look at the 2D games that have been released on Xbox Community Games so far, and some of the great looking ones coming down the pipe.

Look at the 10 best Freeware Platform games of 2008, that came out on PC last year: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/feature_best_freeware_platform.html

I'm sorry, but if you're sticking to the Wii for 2D goodness, that's your problem right there.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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FightyF said:
2D games are becoming more common on the PC and Xbox 360 platforms.

Look at the 2D games that have been released on Xbox Community Games so far, and some of the great looking ones coming down the pipe.

Look at the 10 best Freeware Platform games of 2008, that came out on PC last year: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/feature_best_freeware_platform.html

I'm sorry, but if you're sticking to the Wii for 2D goodness, that's your problem right there.

We are talking about production budgeted and valued 2D games for retail not pick up and play budget games. True production 2D games are still very rare to find.
 

FightyF

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
16,250
0
0
www.myspace.com
Flying_Phoenix said:
We are talking about production budgeted and valued 2D games for retail not pick up and play budget games. True production 2D games are still very rare to find.

Even with that in mind, my point still stands.
 
Jul 31, 2007
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FightyF said:
2D games are becoming more common on the PC and Xbox 360 platforms.

Look at the 2D games that have been released on Xbox Community Games so far, and some of the great looking ones coming down the pipe.

Look at the 10 best Freeware Platform games of 2008, that came out on PC last year: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/feature_best_freeware_platform.html

I'm sorry, but if you're sticking to the Wii for 2D goodness, that's your problem right there.
I agree that there are quite a few great 2D games on the 360... but why be a dick?

This thread is about a Wii game. Yes, the 360 is badass. I agree wholeheartedly on that. But this is a Wii thread. About a gorgeous 2D game.

But I often wonder why I even talk to some people. I may disagree with them, but I still want to be their friend. Unfortunately I don't get the same courtesy from some.

I'll be friends with you Fighty. You can stop being an asshole.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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FightyF said:
Even with that in mind, my point still stands.

Not really. It's the same reason why we didn't mention handheld games. We are looking for modern production valued 2D games in terms of graphics, presentation, and gameplay. I admit that there have been more this gen (basically anything since 2006) then the previous one with Odin Sphere, Grimgrimioire, Muramasa, Super Paper Mario, Wario Land Shake It!, Blazblue, King of Fighters XII, Aquaria, and The Whispered World.

Yes there are more this gen so far then the previous generation but that isn't saying much at all.

I am aware that there are indie games that can stand there own like Braid (haven't played it so I'll just list it as I'm sure that someone will attack me otherwise), Castle Crashers, and the already mentioned Aquaria but these games are very few that are far spread out.

Basically we are looking for 2D games that were as impressive as Valkyrie Profile or Symphony of the Night were during their initial releases. Well okay maybe not that epic as the minimum scale but I'm sure you understand the grounds I'm creating here. Basically 2D games that could hold their own against the modern 3D games. And with those standards the Wii is the best system for that. Though that isn't saying much.
 
Jul 31, 2007
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Fredescu said:
I think you took his post a little too personally. There's nothing overly dickish in there.
I don't even take anything I say too seriously.

I'm just telling him I'll be a friend. He comes into a lot of Wii threads talking up the 360 where it's not even relevant. I understand his coming into Wii tech threads and talking about the Xbox because that's an apt comparison. But this thread is about a singular 2D Wii game.

Not whether the Wii is the new 2D king, or whatever bullshit someone wants to say.

But I'll be his friend if he just stops the stupid agenda.
 

Fredescu

Member
Jan 30, 2007
15,388
0
0
Sydney, Aus
Thunder Monkey said:
But this thread is about a singular 2D Wii game.

Not whether the Wii is the new 2D king, or whatever bullshit someone wants to say.

But I'll be his friend if he just stops the stupid agenda.
He was specifically responding to someone suggesting that 2D games are getting rarer and pointing out that that's not necessarily the case. It is true that if you focus on one platform alone, you might think that certain games were dying out. I don't see anything he said, or even the way he said it, worthy of being called a "dick" or an "asshole" with a "stupid agenda".
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,342
2
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
It sold a tad bit more in North America (like 105k). It's a Greatest Hits title though so doesn't that mean it crossed the 400k barrier world-wide?

I think Sony laxed those requirements. Okami and Disgaea both became Greatest Hits titles as well. But Odin Sphere certainly was a relatively big seller for Atlus IIRC. Not quite as big as Trauma Center: Second Opinion was but certainly one of their best.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Fredescu said:
He was specifically responding to someone suggesting that 2D games are getting rarer and pointing out that that's not necessarily the case. It is true that if you focus on one platform alone, you might think that certain games were dying out. I don't see anything he said, or even the way he said it, worthy of being called a "dick" or an "asshole" with a "stupid agenda".

Except that isn't what we were talking about to begin with.

jaundicejuice said:
So we've progressed from "There's no games on the Wii!" to "Why is this game on the Wii?"

In this thread it went to "Odin Sphere sucked!" to "OMG this game looks amazing!" to "Odin Sphere sucked" to "OMG this game looks amazing!" back to "Odin Sphere sucked" to "OMG this game looks amazing!" to "Odin Sphere sucked!" to "Odin Sphere really was a pretty great and enjoyable game actually overall. It just had some flaws to it." to "This should be ported to the PS3/360" to "2D games are rare".


As the Wii as a whole in gaming community it went from "OMG this thing is selling so much!" to "Just a fad" to "HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS SYSTEM IS GOING TO KILL GAMING FOREVER!!!!!!" to "I don't care if the Wii sells like it does, it doesn't have any good games" to "All third party games on the Wii flop" to "Resident Evil 4 only sold because of Nintendo fans" to "Guitar Hero III only sold because it appeals to casuals and that the franchise is so popular!" to "Wii sucks!" to "Nintendo sucked at E3, this is proof that they don't care about gamers anymore" to "OMG Sin & Punishment 2!" to "OMG Dragon Quest X!" to "Why is EA and said game moving to the Wii? (when they are secretly thinking "OMG it is actually happening that weaksauce console is starting to get all the good games!)"


I'm waiting for the next quoted event currently.

ZealousD said:
I think Sony laxed those requirements. Okami and Disgaea both became Greatest Hits titles as well. But Odin Sphere certainly was a relatively big seller for Atlus IIRC. Not quite as big as Trauma Center: Second Opinion was but certainly one of their best.

Okami sold a little over 200k in North America, and 66k in Japan. I wouldn't be surprised if an extra 140k was there somewhere with Europe and the rest of the world. As for Disgaea well it did sell well enough to bring NiS here and unfold Atlus's destiny.
 

FightyF

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
16,250
0
0
www.myspace.com
Flying_Phoenix said:
Except that isn't what we were talking about to begin with.

Actually that's exactly what I was talking about. 2D platformers and 2D gaming has probably been the best state it has been in a very long time.

But this could be the wrong thread about it...I just wanted to respond to the notion that 2D games are dying when it's not. That there are even more "production quality" 2D games in the past couple years on consoles and PC than we've seen in the last 5 years on the consoles.

Perhaps my post would be more suited in a "State of 2D gaming" sort of thread.

Thunder Monkey: I suppose you would hate this thread I made on the next generation of 2D games: Ten Reasons why 2D Games should be revisited on Next Gen Hardware.
 
Jul 31, 2007
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FightyF said:
Thunder Monkey: I suppose you would hate this thread I made on the next generation of 2D games: Ten Reasons why 2D Games should be revisited on Next Gen Hardware.
Not really no.

Because it's actually relevant. I picked on you, but anyone trying to turn 2D goodness into a pissing contest is just retarded. Getting 2D = better then not getting 2D... ya dig? No matter where it's home.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
13,697
272
1,285
Dash Kappei said:
I have the ntsc version too, so what the hell are you talking about? :D
backtrack the conversation and you'll see : )
 
Aug 28, 2008
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FightyF said:
Actually that's exactly what I was talking about. 2D platformers and 2D gaming has probably been the best state it has been in a very long time.

But this could be the wrong thread about it...I just wanted to respond to the notion that 2D games are dying when it's not. That there are even more "production quality" 2D games in the past couple years on consoles and PC than we've seen in the last 5 years on the consoles.

I think you mistyped the bolded because it doesn't make sense. Also you stated that there were plenty of production quality 2D games on PC's and downloadable services when in actuality there are still very few. I agree there have been more production quality 2D games in recent years then the past generation but it's nowhere it should be.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Dec 5, 2008
14,646
696
1,180
Quincy, Massachusetts
This game looked promising from the very first screens that were shown. Though, of course, a "pretty-looking" game doesn't keep me from reserving judgment.

But, the videos that we're seeing now are providing quite a case for why people should be excited. The game looks stunning, visually, and the combat looks pretty fun as well. I was cautiously optimistic before, but now I'm convinced that this game will be worth keeping an eye on.
 

jsrv

Member
Apr 19, 2007
1,022
0
0
I absolutely loved Odin Sphere. I hope this game does at least as well as Odin Sphere when it gets released. :D
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
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1,010
Imagine if we could get Vanillaware for visuals, Obsidian for story and Kamiya's team for battle system...

I mindgasm'd
 
Aug 28, 2008
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radiantdreamer said:
*sigh* I still haven't finished Odin Sphere... I'm on
The Dark Knight's
chapters and just kinda... gave up...

Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?

HK-47 said:
Imagine if we could get Vanillaware for visuals, Obsidian for story and Kamiya's team for battle system...

I mindgasm'd

No.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Flying_Phoenix said:
Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?

No.

Who wants to bet you have played barely any games by the other two? I do!
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Apr 17, 2007
29,342
2
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?

Really? I always thought
Velvet's
chapter was the worst.
Her moveset is probably the worst. Also, two bosses at once fucking sucks.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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HK-47 said:
Who wants to bet you have played barely any games by the other two? I do!

Yes I've never played Devil May Cry or Neverwinter Nights 2.

ZealousD said:
Really? I always thought
Velvet's
chapter was the worst.
Her moveset is probably the worst. Also, two bosses at once fucking sucks.

It's all opinion but at least Velvet has some strengths as well as not being broken (for the worse) as all hell.
 

Joule

Member
Oct 4, 2007
2,431
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?

I'd agree that it was the worst in terms of gameplay but it wasn't really that bad. Oswald's advantages are just more minimal than the others. He does have the luxury of not needing to make Painkillers for boss fights as his Shadow form is usually sufficient enough by itself. If you can make some Unlimited Power's early you can do lot of damage with the Shadow Form in the early game before some characters get Overload. Lastly Oswald also gets Psypher Heal iirc so like Cornelius he can do after battle full healing for little cost.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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Joule said:
I'd agree that it was the worst in terms of gameplay but it wasn't really that bad. Oswald's advantages are just more minimal than the others. He does have the luxury of not needing to make Painkillers for boss fights as his Shadow form is usually sufficient enough by itself. If you can make some Unlimited Power's early you can do lot of damage with the Shadow Form in the early game before some characters get Overload. Lastly Oswald also gets Psypher Heal iirc so like Cornelius he can do after battle full healing for little cost.


Healing isn't that big of a deal to me since I was always well overstocked with healing potions (especially during that time). It's just that his Shadow form was mostly useless because it always quickly drained his stamina which usually resulted with him becoming dizzy not long after. Yes you can prevent this by disrupting it before his stamina goes to zero, but then again the form would only less a couple seconds.
 

Joule

Member
Oct 4, 2007
2,431
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
Healing isn't that big of a deal to me since I was always well overstocked with healing potions (especially during that time). It's just that his Shadow form was mostly useless because it always quickly drained his stamina which usually resulted with him becoming dizzy not long after. Yes you can prevent this by disrupting it before his stamina goes to zero, but then again the form would only less a couple seconds.

Psypher heal is just more cost effective after a regular battle/midboss battle than using potions.

As for stamina that's what Unlimited Power is for which gives you quite a bit of time to attack (at least two sessions of Shadow Form before UP's effect runs out).
 
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Joule said:
Psypher heal is just more cost effective after a regular battle/midboss battle than using potions.

"Cost effective"?

Please elaborate.


Joule said:
As for stamina that's what Unlimited Power is for which gives you quite a bit of time to attack (at least two sessions of Shadow Form before UP's effect runs out).

Yes I aware of that but hte timing was just far too short, thus making his other short comings truly stick out.

Anyway I just rewatched trailer and wow am I hyped. This game looks way better then Odin Sphere. I'm also happy to see the variety of characters, enemies, and backgrounds.:D
 

Joule

Member
Oct 4, 2007
2,431
0
0
Flying_Phoenix said:
"Cost effective"?

Please elaborate.

Yes I aware of that but hte timing was just far too short, thus making his other short comings truly stick out.

Psypher Heal only costs one stock of Phozons and can heal you to max all you have to do is just stand there. You'll probably refill that lost stock, possibly more in the next battle quickly. Rather than use potions to refill your health after regular battles you can just save them for bosses only. Once your HP gets particularly high Psypher Heal is much better than using potions.

Shadow Form + Unlimited Power lasts about as long as anybody else's Overload and Unlimited Power so I'm really not seeing a big difference in duration between them. Oswald also doesn't have to expend Phozon stock for Overload so you can do some Phozon bursts/Cyclones/farming with Phozon Release/Psypher Heal without much care.
 
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Joule said:
Psypher Heal only costs one stock of Phozons and can heal you to max all you have to do is just stand there. You'll probably refill that lost stock, possibly more in the next battle quickly. Rather than use potions to refill your health after regular battles you can just save them for bosses only. Once your HP gets particularly high Psypher Heal is much better than using potions.

Shadow Form + Unlimited Power lasts about as long as anybody else's Overload and Unlimited Power so I'm really not seeing a big difference in duration between them. Oswald also doesn't have to expend Phozon stock for Overload so you can do some Phozon bursts/Cyclones/farming with Phozon Release/Psypher Heal without much care.


Yeah but I always had plenty of potions, I also as well saved my alchemy and magic gauge solely for the boss battles. I only refilled when I really needed to (like once or twice per area). Then again I was playing on "Normal Mode".

I am aware that it lasts as long as most peoples overload, it's just that it should last longer because it is his special ability as well as him not having any advantages over others other then that.
 
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radiantdreamer said:
This is a good discussion. Please continue. I need more awesome tips so that I can play Odin Sphere again.

To make Odin Sphere "awesome" just play it as it should be played as an action RPG with strategic gameplay. If you weren't thinking of the things I and Joule have been talking about and have been playing it like a usual "run and hit them" game then you've been playing it wrong up until now.

As for tips it's as I've described, I found Oswald next to useless. The best advice I can give is try and turn his weaknesses to advantages. An examples is his jump and swoop strike where he jumps and makes a slanted strike toward the enemy as he quickly falls (from my memory he had this). It's very similar to Gwendolyns gliding strike only you don't need to glide. Usually this is bad because unless use it at the exact correct time he could be hit by a nearby enemy. So how can you use this? Well there are a number of different ways. One is to lure multiple enemies to the same spot where you can then have them all together to perform the attack as you damage and eventually kill as many enemies you can at once. Or for bigger enemies you can jump over their attack and perform it behind their back. I'd also recommend mixing some protection potions (you know the three little fires or icecles that protect you) to give you a better chance during battles. Some napalm wouldn't hurt you either.

Now if you want to go more complex think of what I said in the previous paragraph and apply it all at once. As in use the protective potion, lure enemies together at once, when one of the enemies following you create a group then do the swooping strike, and as the others you have lured are following you and coming nearer jump back and use the napalm to kill them.