-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New Oboro Muramasa pics! 2D awesomeness! :o
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
kinggroin said:
The games predessor was easily the most complex action RPG to ever comeout...
SecretBonusPoint said:
In what way was Odin Sphere's gameplay "shallow"?
blu said:
Odin Sphere wasn't a "brawler" at all it was a tactical action RPG how could it be a bralwer if the combat didn't work that way?...I'm really starting to suspect that a large majority of Gaf didn't play that game correctly.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
kinggroin said:
So why would this game it's "successor" be shallow? Especially with a demo (which is suppose to just introduce you to the game). Demos don't = sure translation. Just look at all the people complaining about Banjo Nuts and Bolts Demo.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Kintaro said:
If you find it boring that's fine, but if someone played the game and found it "mindnumbingly shallow" or a "brawler" then something somewhere went wrong. It's like saying Nocturne is shallow or King of Fighters. Saying its a brawler is like calling Super Metroid a Megaman clone. You're free to think it is repetitive because I do agree that the levels did repeat far too often.
If you want me to explain further I will, because I can understand what I'm saying may sound confusing if I don't go into further detail.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
kinggroin said:
I'm referring to comments (and I admit may be exaggerating a bit) that I've heard before. I'm not saying you said anything.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
Odin Sphere's basic combat is pretty shallow. Go into 'ring room' kill all of the things, proceed. The gardening mechanics and fusion elements were what added the depth, albeit in a game that was stretched far too thin for far too long.
I kinda wanted them to ditch the "mini-room" concept and just make big scrolling stages, but that appears to not be the case. And with seemingly no replacement for the Gardening/Fusion elements and a 1 attack button basis and the character no longer seems to get tired making movement tactical, 'shallow' is certainly a term this game is going to have to fight to dismiss.
I kinda wanted them to ditch the "mini-room" concept and just make big scrolling stages, but that appears to not be the case. And with seemingly no replacement for the Gardening/Fusion elements and a 1 attack button basis and the character no longer seems to get tired making movement tactical, 'shallow' is certainly a term this game is going to have to fight to dismiss.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Kintaro said:
Alright this may be a little long but here it goes. The combat was shallow because it had NOTHING to do with the actual game. In contrast it would be like saying "The Witcher's" gameplay is shallow because all you do to attack enemies is pointing and clicking. If you thought of "Odin Sphere" playing like "Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories" (GBA version) or like Guardian Heroes then you are as far and away from the game as possible. The game doesn't work by you running up and attacking the enemy and then using potions. Actually the game works completely opposite of that.
"Odin Sphere" revolved around the player observing the enemies and their patterns then forming a strategy to take them down. This is why I made the comparison toward "The Witcher" and similar games to it. In those games you have to observe the enemy and constantly observe your stats and ablities to attack your enemy in comparison to a game like Kingdom Hearts where you just concentrate in attacking first then alchemy next. So in short the game worked like this. Go to the next area. run around/look at map to see all the enemies, observe the enemies movements and form your tactics (do you lure enemies to certain locations to form chain attacks? Use alchemy to take them out? Confuse enemies so they attack each other? Start with air based enemies and work your way down?). In short the game involved you making strategys to take down enemies with a very straight forward but deep battle system, the entire game was one big real-time battle system.
And no I didn't find some secret way to play it. This IS the way you play the game. It's why the combat was so laggy (in the same way many WRPG ones were laggy) because it was meant to be played to think first and attack laster. This is why the game repeated with different characters in each chapter, because while the enemies and locations were similar the game played very different. This is why the maps were in shape of a sphere because the whole area was one giant battlemap. This is why the game had a headline map in each area only showing enemies and projectiles, so that the player can only focus on those things. This is why there were so many bottles and seeds lying around the field, because you had to use them to form your strategies. This is why you leveled by eating, because you weren't suppose to level up much in the first place because you won battles by your strategy and wit, not by your characters attack power and defense hence why leveling up was a simply gimmick. And this is also why IGN, GameTrailers, RPGamer, and all other RPG centric sites (I know IGN and GT aren't ones) highly praised the games battle system and often referring it to as heavily strategic and deep.
I am not saying that it was a flawless masterpiece, there are still some problems with it (slowdown, load times, repeating backgrounds, some times inconsistent difficulty) but I'm just saying that this game is largely misunderstood. Playing the game like a brawler would be like playing Super Metroid like Megaman or playing Shin Megami Tensei like Skies of Arcadia by not fusing demons and keeping only the first demons that you invite to your party and just grind from there, you're getting a very different experience to what the game is actually suppose to offer. That saying it seems that only Gaf, 1up, and SRK are the only forum sites I've seen this game get heavy criticized on. Every other site just say it as another quality game (just found that odd.) Was the game like hyped to hell or something on here for being something else? Because I haven't been on Gaf that long.
rollingstart
Banned
The new video looked great. Already looks much better than Odin Sphere.
comedy bomb
Banned
Game has a really nice look to it.
After watching some videos, I can't help noticing the flashing X button on the bottom of the screen. Is this Wii only or are there other versions being made?
After watching some videos, I can't help noticing the flashing X button on the bottom of the screen. Is this Wii only or are there other versions being made?
dragonlife
Member
I was...speechlesscw_sasuke said:New exklusive Gameplay Trailer - looks awesome MMV/Vanillaware FTW. It's from the TGS 08 Build but still
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23128
Except for "Holy shit, I think I just fucking came!" OOOOOOOMG!!! This looks absolutely incredible! I was half-expecting and half-hoping that the giant octopus (Kraken?) would show up at the end...what teases....
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
By the 7th hour you've already exhausted whatever depth Odin Sphere had. Once you've learned all the tricks and started with your next character you realize that the enemy hasn't gotten any new tricks to keep up. Even if you keep it restrained to those first six hours you're still looking at a very basic assortment of flying enemies, ground enemies, tweeners, mid-bosses(which tend to have the same patterns despite looking wildly different), and of course the bosses which boil down to: 1. look for an opening. 2. Do a bunch of combos. 3. Run to the other side of the map to dodge whatever it is they're doing. Repeat.
Hopefully things change with Oboro but I think I used up all of those hopes back when I was looking forward to OS.
PepsimanVsJoe said:
I don't know, I thought Odin Sphere remained interesting enough throughout, even if the character abilities didn't change that much. The fairy that could fly forever, and had ammo rather than POW and could charge up homing shots was probably the most unique amongst the fighters. But the other characters were fun and had interesting stories, I thought. Interesting enough to keep my interest until the end.
Muramasa on the other hand doesn't concern itself with that many characters, so I assume the game will be shorter and more like 10-15 hours rather than 50 hours.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
PepsimanVsJoe said:
That was the reason why they gave you different characters though. Nearly all the characters had to fight the bosses and enemies in a completely different manner and use very different tactics to defeat them. I'd definitely agree if you played as Gwendolyn during the entire game, but you didn't. As for your 3 courses that isn't right at all. You have to look at the game much much bigger (Combos? What?). You are suppose to strategize through the enemies locations and plan a strategy using the map. You don't just run toward any enemy and hit it, run away as far as you can, and hit it again until it dies. It's like saying Street Fighter doesn't have much depth to last awhile because all you do is zone, attack the enemy, block whatever they have, and repeat there is far more to it then that. If that's all your doing then well you're dodging the blocks, coins, and goombas.
PolyGone said:
Yeah. While I don't think that Odin Sphere overstayed its welcome as many say it was a tad long for what it was. Atlus games tend to suffer from massive overplay syndrome. Though the quality of their games more then make up for it IMO.
Xisiqomelir
Member
Cedille said:
Yexcellent.
dragonlife
Member
Wii.nib95 said:
Mr.Wuggles
Neo Member
since this game is releasing fairly soon, i'm starting to really think that new marvelous countdown is for a newvanillaware game
Saint Gregory
Member
Looks like the entire world map
I hope this confirms that we wont be warping from location to location like in OS.
I hope this confirms that we wont be warping from location to location like in OS.
neo2046
Member
2D never die~~~
朧村正
http://www.happinetonline.com/NASAp...ail&KIND=0&SHOP_ID=1&PRODUCT_ID=4535506300928
朧村正
http://www.happinetonline.com/NASAp...ail&KIND=0&SHOP_ID=1&PRODUCT_ID=4535506300928
sevenchaos
Banned
Holy fuck shit. That's some awesome sauce right there.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
So when's this coming out in North America again?
BishopLamont
Banned
Man this game is so fucking beautiful, hope it plays as well as it looks.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
holy crap!
Shin Johnpv
Member
HOLY FUCK!
Is there a release date yet for in the west?
Is there a release date yet for in the west?
FortNinety
Member
Please God let the Japanese box art carry over...
I'm trying to recall those of previous XSEED releases and am drawing a blank. To totally butcher it for "American sensibilites" has always been questionable, but in this case, it would be downright criminal (as well as laughably counter-productive).
I'm trying to recall those of previous XSEED releases and am drawing a blank. To totally butcher it for "American sensibilites" has always been questionable, but in this case, it would be downright criminal (as well as laughably counter-productive).
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
PantherLotus said:
