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New PlayStation Network Terms of Service Include a No Suing Sony Clause

T

Thoraxes

Member
This e-mail went out recently. All accounts are being switched over to the new service, though I believe nothing changes on the user-end, and they now protect themselves agaisnt class-action lawsuits, probably due to some they received because of the PSN outage.

Sony said:
On September 15, 2011, Sony Network Entertainment America Inc. ("SNEA") will transfer its online services operations, including your wallet and the funds in it, to Sony Network Entertainment International LLC ("SNEI"). The first time you sign in to your PlayStation®Network account on or after September 15, 2011, you will be asked to enter into a new Terms of Service and User Agreement ("TOS") and Privacy Policy with SNEI if you wish to continue using your PlayStation®Network account. Please review all changes to the TOS and Privacy Policy carefully before indicating your agreement. In particular, please review Section 15 of the TOS, which now includes a class action waiver and requires that most disputes be resolved through arbitration.
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FsiRq.jpg
 
I

IrrelevantNotch

Banned
Thoraxes said:
This e-mail went out recently. All accounts are being switched over to the new service, though I believe nothing changes on the user-end, and they now protect themselves agaisnt class-action lawsuits, probably due to some they received because of the PSN outage.
Click to expand...

goddamn supreme court >:[
 
M

mik83kuu

Banned
I never read those through so for all I care it could have been there since the beginning of time. No reason to get upset.
 
G

Gravijah

Member
mik83kuu said:
I never read those through so for all I care it could have been there since the beginning of time. No reason to get upset.
Click to expand...

OP forgot to mention that Sony now owns the rights to your soul, and your children are now property of Sony.
 
W

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Here is what they added concerning lawsuits
15. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION
Purpose. The term “Dispute” means any dispute, claim, or controversy between you and any Sony Entity regarding any Sony Online Services or the use of any devices sold by a Sony Entity to access Sony Online Services, whether based in contract, statute, regulation, ordinance, tort (including, but not limited to, fraud, misrepresentation, fraudulent inducement, or negligence), or any other legal or equitable theory, and includes the validity, enforceability or scope of this Section 15 (with the exception of the enforceability of the Class Action Waiver clause below). “Dispute” is to be given the broadest possible meaning that will be enforced. If you have a Dispute with any Sony Entity or any of a Sony Entity’s officers, directors, employees and agents that cannot be resolved through negotiation within the time frame described in the “Notice of Dispute” clause below. Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause, you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 15, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.
Exclusions from Arbitration. YOU AND THE SONY ENTITIES AGREE THAT ANY CLAIM FILED BY YOU OR BY A SONY ENTITY IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE ARBITRATION TERMS CONTAINED IN THIS SECTION 15.
RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.
Notice of Dispute. IF YOU HAVE A DISPUTE WITH ANY SONY ENTITY, YOU MUST SEND WRITTEN NOTICE TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION, ATTN: SONY LEGAL DEPARTMENT: DISPUTE RESOLUTION” TO GIVE SNEI OR THE SONY ENTITY YOU HAVE A DISPUTE WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESOLVE THE DISPUTE
18
INFORMALLY THROUGH NEGOTIATION. You agree to negotiate resolution of the Dispute in good faith for no less than 60 days after you provide notice of the Dispute. If the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with does not resolve your Dispute within 60 days from receipt of notice of the Dispute, you or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may pursue your claim in arbitration pursuant to the terms in this Section 15.
Class Action Waiver. ANY DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCEEDINGS, WHETHER IN ARBITRATION OR COURT, WILL BE CONDUCTED ONLY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND NOT IN A CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION OR AS A NAMED OR UNNAMED MEMBER IN A CLASS, CONSOLIDATED, REPRESENTATIVE OR PRIVATE ATTORNEY GENERAL LEGALACTION, UNLESS BOTH YOU AND THE SONY ENTITY WITH WHICH YOU HAVE A DISPUTE SPECIFICALLY AGREE TO DO SO IN WRITING FOLLOWING INITIATION OF THE ARBITRATION. THIS PROVISION DOES NOT PRECLUDE YOUR PARTICIPATION AS A MEMBER IN A CLASS ACTION FILED ON OR BEFORE AUGUST 20, 2011.
SNEAInitiation of Arbitration Proceeding/Selection of Arbitrator. If you or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with elect to resolve your Dispute through arbitration, the party initiating the arbitration proceeding may initiate it with the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”), www.adr.org, or JAMS www.jamsadr.com. The terms of this Section 15 govern in the event they conflict with the rules of the arbitration organization selected by the parties.
Arbitration Procedures. Because the software and/or service provided to you by the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with concern interstate commerce, the Federal Arbitration Act (“FAA”) governs the arbitrability of all Disputes. However, applicable federal or state law may also apply to the substance of any Disputes. For claims of less than $75,000, the AAA’s Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes (“Supplementary Procedures”) shall apply including the schedule of arbitration fees set forth in Section C-8 of the Supplementary Procedures; for claims over $75,000, the AAA’s Commercial Arbitration Rules and relevant fee schedules for non-class action proceedings shall apply. The AAA rules are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879. Further, if your claims do not exceed $75,000 and you provided notice to and negotiated in good faith with the Sony Entity you had a Dispute with as described above, if the arbitrator finds that you are the prevailing party in the arbitration, you will be entitled to recover reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs as determined by the arbitrator, in addition to any rights to recover the same under controlling state or federal law afforded to the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with or you. The arbitrator will make any award in writing but need not provide a statement of reasons unless requested by a party. Such award will be binding and final, excerpt for any right of appeal provided by the FAA, and may be entered in any court having jurisdiction over the parties for purposes of enforcement.
Location of Arbitration. You or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may initiate arbitration in either San Mateo County, California or the county in which you reside. In the event that you select the county of your residence, the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may transfer the arbitration to San Mateo, County in the event that it agrees to pay any additional fees or costs you incur as a result of the change in location as determined by the arbitrator.

Severability. If any clause within this Section 15 (other than the Class Action Waiver clause above) is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that clause will be severed from this Section 15, and the remainder of this Section 15 will be given full force and effect. If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the Dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.
Continuation. This Section 15 shall survive any termination of this Agreement or the provision of Sony Online Services to you.
16. GOVERNING LAW AND JURISDICTION
YOU AND SNEI AGREE THAT THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, WITHOUT REGARD TO ITS CONFLICT OF LAW RULES, GOVERN THIS AGREEMENT AND ANY DISPUTE BETWEEN YOU AND THE SONY ENTITIES. ANY DISPUTE NOT SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION AND NOT INITIATED IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT WILL BE LITIGATED BY EITHER PARTY IN A COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION IN EITHER THE SUPERIOR COURT FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN MATEO OR IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA.
17. GENERAL
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J

JABEE

Member
Meaning there is no chance in hell you can sue them anymore and getting to the point of arbitration is unfeasible with the amount of money you're be winning in the case.
 
B

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
mik83kuu said:
I never read those through so for all I care it could have been there since the beginning of time. No reason to get upset.
Click to expand...
You have no one to blame but yourself if you're sewed to a humanicentips3
 
A

aaaaaa

Member
OK reading it carefully:

RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.​

So there's also that option.
 
J

jgwhiteus

Member
Wario64 said:
I skimmed through the changes (you can find it here http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/SEN-legal-docs/TERMS_OF_SERVICE_AGREEMENT-EN.pdf)

They added tablet as one of the devices and pretty much eliminated the word "purchases" to licenses or something to that nature. Qriocity is pretty much gone too, as expected.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there some court decision recently on the distinction between purchases and licenses? It related to AutoCAD software I believe. Basically, if consumers "purchase" a game, they can resell it or do whatever they want with it, because they own it (I think the case concerned someone trying to sell a used copy of AutoCAD online).

But if the consumer only owns a "license" to the software, then the original rightsholder (in this case Sony) can still dictate what the consumer does with it, such as restricting resales, because they never gave up "ownership" of the software.

Maybe it's just a pre-emptive change, but it's curious.

EDIT: The case was Vernor v. Autodesk, described at Wikipedia.
 
M

malfcn

Member
Just saw this on Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/5840517/new-playstation-network-terms-of-service-include-a-no-suing-sony-clause

Have you agreed to the new PlayStation Network terms of service yet? If you have, then you've agreed not to take Sony to court or participate in a class action lawsuit against the company. You really should read things before you sign them, even digitally.
Click to expand...

...

In summary, in order to use the PlayStation Network, you must agree to settle any dispute with the company outside of court.

That's not all. There's also a class action waiver in section 15, which states that those agreeing to the terms of service are also agreeing to setting their disputes with Sony entities one-on-one. That means they cannot participate in a group action, unless that group action was set in motion before August 20, 2011.
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How standard is this? Sounds like an update for Sony. Does XBL have something similar in their legal mumbo jumbo?
 
K

Kenshin001

Member
Sorry, but I refuse to click on Kotaku. Can you post the relevant excerpt from the new ToS please? I can't see how that could possibly be legal in any way.
 
C

confused

Banned
StuBurns said:
Right, meaningless.
Click to expand...

Untill it does and gains meaning.

from wiki :

Enforceability of EULAs in the United StatesThe enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C. —see, for instance, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,[2] Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd..[3] Other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license agreement is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg,[4] Microsoft v. Harmony Computers,[5] Novell v. Network Trade Center,[6] and Ariz. Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n v. Lexmark Int'l, Inc.[7] may have some bearing as well. No court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.

The 7th Circuit and 8th Circuit subscribe to the "licensed and not sold" argument, while most other circuits do not[citation needed]. In addition, the contracts' enforceability depends on whether the state has passed the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act (UCITA) or Anti-UCITA (UCITA Bomb Shelter) laws. In Anti-UCITA states, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) has been amended to either specifically define software as a good (thus making it fall under the UCC), or to disallow contracts which specify that the terms of contract are subject to the laws of a state that has passed UCITA.

Recently, publishers have begun to encrypt their software packages to make it impossible for a user to install the software without either agreeing to the license agreement or violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and foreign counterparts.

The DMCA specifically provides for reverse engineering of software for interoperability purposes, so there was some controversy as to whether software license agreement clauses which restrict this are enforceable. The 8th Circuit case of Davidson & Associates v. Jung[8] determined that such clauses are enforceable, following the Federal Circuit decision of Baystate v. Bowers.[9]
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V

Verano

Reads Ace as Lace. May God have mercy on their soul
if true, might as well start suing Sony now for the controversial anti-Sony sue thang before the TOS changes
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Please post the actual lines of the terms and conditions of the new update and not just Kotaku's "journalism."
 
A

antonz

Member
US Supreme court did just rule that people have no right to class action suits etc and must go through arbitration. So sony wasted no time following that ruling.


WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court gave corporations a major win Wednesday, ruling in a 5-4 decision that companies can block their disgruntled customers from joining together in a class-action lawsuit. The ruling arose from a California lawsuit involving cellphones, but it will have a nationwide impact.

In the past, consumers who bought a product or a service had been free to join a class-action lawsuit if they were dissatisfied or felt they had been cheated. By combining these small claims, they could bring a major lawsuit against a corporation.

But in Wednesday's decision, the high court said that under the Federal Arbitration Act companies can force these disgruntled customers to arbitrate their complaints individually, not as part of a group. Consumer-rights advocates said this rule would spell the end for small claims involving products or services.
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C

Castor Krieg

Banned
confused said:
They can do this ?As in it is legal.
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No, it is not legal. Every court will laugh at Sony and throw this PoS out of the window.

EDIT: Seeing the above lolz I have to add "every court IN EUROPE...".
 
M

Momo

Banned
In summary, in order to use the PlayStation Network, you must agree to settle any dispute with the company outside of court.

That's not all. There's also a class action waiver in section 15, which states that those agreeing to the terms of service are also agreeing to setting their disputes with Sony entities one-on-one. That means they cannot participate in a group action, unless that group action was set in motion before August 20, 2011.
Click to expand...
AjjJo.jpg
 
M

malfcn

Member
kassatsu said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444986

Just saw this on GAF!
Click to expand...

My bad..delete/close mine?

Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause (small claims), you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 15, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.
Click to expand...
RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.
Click to expand...
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
antonz said:
US Supreme court did just rule that people have no right to class action suits etc and must go through arbitration. So sony wasted no time following that ruling.
Click to expand...
WTF, that's disgusting.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Aw, I want to see more near-braindead lawsuits. :(
 
C

Castor Krieg

Banned
Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause (small claims), you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 15, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure this is illegal in almost every country on this planet. You cannot be denied option of legal proceedings, it's your right as a citizen. Sony has some very poor lawyers.

Is this also in EU EULA? Wait till European Commission hears about that...
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
My new iPhone game states that I can legally have my way with you. It's written in the EULA. Only $4.99.
 
M

mr_nothin

Banned
Castor Krieg said:
I'm pretty sure this is illegal in almost every country on this planet. You cannot be denied option of legal proceedings, it's your right as a citizen. Sony has some very poor lawyers.

Is this also in EU EULA? Wait till European Commission hears about that...
Click to expand...
Well now you can :)
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Momo said:
Fat guy sues White Castle for not making booths wide enough
Click to expand...

I know a few though:

Man sues McDonalds because coffee was too hot.
Parents can sue the school for requiring students to go to school even if the day is too hot. (not sure about this, friend just told me)
Old lady sues microwave company because there were no instructions that you can't use the microwave to dry up your cat.
 
A

Akainu

Member
ULTROS! said:
I know a few though:

Man sues McDonalds because coffee was too hot.
Parents can sue the school for requiring students to go to school even if the day is too hot. (not sure about this, friend just told me)
Old lady sues microwave company because there were no instructions that you can't use the microwave to dry up you cat.
Click to expand...
That one was just a myth right? RIGHT?
 
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