New PS3 Model (CECH-4000) Registered on FCC (Jeff_Rigby alert)

I really don't believe there will a PS3.5 or 361. I respect you and your theory's Jeff and believe some of the things you posted a ways back on 3D stacking and HSA architecture for PS3 were well supported and have merit, but I'm sorry this is complete nonsense.

This next ps3 will probably be slimmer and there will be a reduction in the die sizes. You predicted PS3.5 with the hdmi pass thru would have wifi b/g/n. thats already being proven false with the filling. The rsx and cell will both be reduced to at least 32nm, but may be on one SoC at 28nm similar to what they did with 360. Hopefully that makes it significantly smaller and similar looking to that picture. This should be accompanied by a price drop and hopefully will allow Sony to move some serious units for the holiday and maybe do a PS All Star bundle, and allow them to gain momentum into a PS4 launch in late 2013/ some time in 2014.( I do still believe its 2014 like you). I really believe this is the best we can hope for with the new model. The chassis change might not even be a significant one, we don't know yet.

As far as the 361 rumor to launch in holiday 2012 in that 2010 document, thing could have easily changed since then as that severly out dated info.
Yup, that is a small hole. Just means EVERYTHING isn't in the SOC like with handheld SOCs; didn't think it through.

You could be right and everything I'm citing is just nonsense in which case I'd expect a VERY cheap PS3 refresh. A slight increase in sales but no where what's needed. Sony would have to sell other attractive NUI platforms, come out with a cheap touchscreen remote or something.
 
Yup, that is a small hole. Just means EVERYTHING isn't in the SOC like with handheld SOCs; didn't think it through.

You could be right and everything I'm citing is just nonsense in which case I'd expect a VERY cheap PS3 refresh. A slight increase in sales but no where what's needed. Sony would have to sell other attractive NUI platforms, come out with a cheap touchscreen remote or something.
But there only predicting 13M this year, which I think is 900k less then they did last year. The price drop and slimmer design would allow them to achieve that number or at least get very close to it. The 20M number is that digitizes rumor should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.
 
But there only predicting 13M this year, which I think is 900k less then they did last year. The price drop and slimmer design would allow them to achieve that number or at least get very close to it. The 20M number is that digitizes rumor should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.
If you are correct it's entirely false as a Sony patent style depth camera is not possible. Putting one in is a major design change as the port has to be much faster. That changes everything and a major design, new hardware with emulation of older hardware is needed. Which means why refresh? Sony isn't coming out with a dumb refreshed Cell, that would be too difficult, the FCC filing is for a new radio, PS3 footprint changed because it's just stacked vertically using a different cheaper blu-ray drive.

It's too late in the life of the PS3 to justify a major design cost in shrinking Cell (can't dumb shrink it) if the life of the PS3 is less that 2 years (California and other countries energy policies). This then implies a very cheap less powerful PS4 that takes the price point place that the PS3 would normally occupy.

The PS3 security key has been hacked and a PS3 design that is 100% hardware compatible using the current cell and same version of Firmware means Sony can't trust their own platform to be secure.
 
If you are correct it's entirely false as a Sony patent style depth camera is not possible. Putting one in is a major design change as the port has to be much faster. That changes everything and a major design, new hardware with emulation of older hardware is needed. Which means why refresh? Sony isn't coming out with a dumb refreshed Cell, that would be too difficult, the FCC filing is for a new radio, PS3 footprint changed because it's just stacked vertically using a different cheaper blu-ray drive.

It's too late in the life of the PS3 to justify a major design cost in shrinking Cell (can't dumb shrink it) if the life of the PS3 is less that 2 years (California and other countries energy policies). This then implies a very cheap less powerful PS4 that takes the price point place that the PS3 would normally occupy.
Regarding the life of PS3. I think Sony will release a cheap new PS3 Slim for around 160 euro like they did with the PS2 and then market it in the third world while PS4 launches in the west. After all that's what they did with the PS2 and it seems like a strategy that has worked out tremendously well for them.
 
Regarding the life of PS3. I think Sony will release a cheap new PS3 Slim for around 160 euro like they did with the PS2 and then market it in the third world while PS4 launches in the west. After all that's what they did with the PS2 and it seems like a strategy that has worked out tremendously well for them.
Not without a major design change as in third world countries with a lower standard of living, electricity is much more expensive, takes a larger share of their total income. Nope, PS3 will be dead and dropped within 2 years or it's getting a total makeover for low power. Cheaper to use a $30.00 Android stick and Onlive video stream a game....yup, PS3 is dead if everything I posted is nonsense. Only Microsoft will survive if they come out with the Xbox361 as their NUI control schemes make it attractive. The Microsoft powerpoint mentioned that they might buy Onlive to keep it from disrupting the market. Microsoft buys Onlive and Sony buys Gaikai and go into partnerships on server farms...that's the microsoft-sony.com partnership or one of a number of joint ventures.
 
I just think the amount of hardware and software changes required to properly support HDMI pass through is too much for a mid-lifecyle refresh. The easiest way would be to include google TV, but then you have issues of keeping android away from the PS3 for security, but wanting to integrate with the PS3 for usability.

It is true that Sony continue to push here and there - see the 3D compatible HDMI and CEC additions more recently. I just think pass through is too big a step right now.
 
If you are correct it's entirely false as a Sony patent style depth camera is not possible. Putting one in is a major design change as the port has to be much faster. That changes everything and a major design, new hardware with emulation of older hardware is needed. Which means why refresh? Sony isn't coming out with a dumb refreshed Cell, that would be too difficult, the FCC filing is for a new radio, PS3 footprint changed because it's just stacked vertically using a different cheaper blu-ray drive.

It's too late in the life of the PS3 to justify a major design cost in shrinking Cell (can't dumb shrink it) if the life of the PS3 is less that 2 years (California and other countries energy policies). This then implies a very cheap less powerful PS4 that takes the price point place that the PS3 would normally occupy.

The PS3 security key has been hacked and a PS3 design that is 100% hardware compatible using the current cell and same version of Firmware means Sony can't trust their own platform to be secure.
Why can't that patent for the depth camera just be intended for the ps4? Isn't that possible? PS3 has at least another 4 years on the market, it should follow in the foot steps of ps2, may not be around for quite as log as ps2 is still sold today but it will make it to 10years.

Wouldn't a reduction to 28nm soc reduce the power/electricity of the console significantly? And certainly less cost to manufacture generating more profit margin for them. Your logic regarding the ps3 not staying around cause it draws to much power doesn'tale sense to me. If that were true ps4 would never be released as its probably gonna be 220w+ just like the ps3 phat was at first. I think a lot of the things your talking about here would be included in the PS4 in 2014. Which makes sense save all your goodies for the big upgrade all at once to show the biggest difference from the previous generation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying I don't know.

Edit: btw I don't know what bearing third world countries would have on the ps3. None IMO. My gf is from the phillipines btw, and I did see game stores with ps3's in them. But the user base in third world countries is a fraction of what they are in Japan, Europe, NA, probably even Australia which I don't even know if they hit 4million sold yet. The only people that buy ps3's over there are the upper class, or "A" class as they call it, their rich upper class. I really don't think the third world countries are going to stop them selling ps3 in the rest of the world.
 
I just think the amount of hardware and software changes required to properly support HDMI pass through is too much for a mid-lifecyle refresh. The easiest way would be to include google TV, but then you have issues of keeping android away from the PS3 for security, but wanting to integrate with the PS3 for usability.

It is true that Sony continue to push here and there - see the 3D compatible HDMI and CEC additions more recently. I just think pass through is too big a step right now.
You missed the NeTV cite with the FPGA that implements HDMI pass thru and overlay $5.00. FPGA used because volume of sales don't support a custom chip. The FPGA not able to support 1080P 3-D without overclocking which they didn't want to support.

Google TV requires a HDMI pass-thru it does not enable HDMI pass-thru. Google TV software support hardware enabled HDMI pass-thru. I gather that's what you meant. Software changes to support HDMI pass-thru on a PS3 would be trivial.

You do realize that the PS3 OS is getting a very major change with the XMB application side before the Christmas season.
 
Why can't that patent for the depth camera just be intended for the ps4? Isn't that possible?
Yes that's possible but why did they publish the patent now?

PS3 has at least another 4 years on the market, it should follow in the foot steps of ps2, may not be around for quite as long as ps2 is still sold today but it will make it to 10years.

Wouldn't a reduction to 28nm soc reduce the power/electricity of the console significantly? And certainly less cost to manufacture generating more profit margin for them. Your logic regarding the ps3 not staying around cause it draws to much power doesn'tale sense to me.

If that were true ps4 would never be released as its probably gonna be 220w+ just like the ps3 phat was at first. I think a lot of the things your talking about here would be included in the PS4 in 2014. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying I don't know.
The California law is going to address low power and standby modes but probably not how much power it uses while operating. IF it's going to be used for IPTV, it should draw 15 watts or so not the 60 watts needed running a game. If you pause a movie it should draw 5 watts and enter sleep mode after a set time. It's not practical AT THIS POINT to have a law regulating the total power of a game console, that will vary with design and features but it is possible to require low power modes and that's in the California proposal.

This from the Microsoft Powerpoint:

Multiple Power States
Full Power
Media Playback
Idle
Streaming
Standby

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20806207/california-likely-set-energy-standards-consumer-electronics said:
Several popular products -- including Microsoft's Xbox, Sony's PlayStation, Nintendo's Wii, set-top boxes used with cable and satellite television sets, personal computers and monitors -- would be affected. Because the commission has not yet settled on a definition for computers, it's not clear if tablets, like the popular iPad, will be included.
The federal Government is getting into this also with standards to be implemented before 2020. California is the problem for the game consoles within 18 months. TVs already went through a 2009 redesign to comply with California law.
 

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
Here's my take on what I think it could look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvAQBXKFWEM&feature=youtu.be

I always love to guess what the final model of these products turn out to look like. I was close on the old PS3 slim. This one will probably be far off - but if they do stick with that size it will certainly use less power.
Look a little small to me, the biggest thing I would disagree with though is the placement of the disk drive, Sony hasn't placed it on the lower half when standing or the left when sitting on any of their models to date and is always on the thinnest sticky out part, lol.
 
Here's my take on what I think it could look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvAQBXKFWEM&feature=youtu.be

I always love to guess what the final model of these products turn out to look like. I was close on the old PS3 slim. This one will probably be far off - but if they do stick with that size it will certainly use less power.
Looks nice but if there's any lights and ports on the base, the base must be taller than that because the overhang makes them hard to see or access.

I'm curious what it would look like if they go with a top loading drive as hinted by the firmware change.
 
Well, this is exciting. I love my current PS3 (slim) but my original 60gb finally died, and Sony sent me another slim one. Will definitely be interested in picking this up and making one of my current PS3s a bluray player for another room.

Bring it on!
 
Look a little small to me, the biggest thing I would disagree with though is the placement of the disk drive, Sony hasn't placed it on the lower half when standing or the left when sitting on any of their models to date and is always on the thinnest sticky out part, lol.
Only reason I didn't put it up top was the notch on the FCC design. Otherwise I would say it was up on top too.
 
Only reason I didn't put it up top was the notch on the FCC design. Otherwise I would say it was up on top too.
Hmm, I hadn't seen that notch. I'd suggest it could be because of the PS logo but I don't know how these images are created.

Here's a rough guess.





Edit: I forgot to curve the underside, meh.
 
If PS4 releases in 2013 I expect the PS3 to still have good sales and new games going into 2014. It is really in 2015 that we will see development beginning to wrap up. Also Wii U won't be as successful as the Wii but I predict Nintendo will at a minimum sell a good number of consoles, we won't see a repeat of the Gamecube. Many will be reluctant to move onto new consoles exclusively because PS360 and Wii U combined install base will be high.
 
If ps4 is launching in 2013, is this redesign likely to be the last big change taking Sony deeper into the mass market and secondary markets? Do we have any idea whether they have die shrinks or chip integrations (eg RSX and cell on one chip)?
 

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Waiting for the PSVita slim with the video output Sony.
 
I just think the amount of hardware and software changes required to properly support HDMI pass through is too much for a mid-lifecyle refresh. The easiest way would be to include google TV, but then you have issues of keeping android away from the PS3 for security, but wanting to integrate with the PS3 for usability.

It is true that Sony continue to push here and there - see the 3D compatible HDMI and CEC additions more recently. I just think pass through is too big a step right now.
i am struggling to see why would Sony have Google TV inside PS3... It is not like Torne/PlayTV dont exist. It is not really popular either. Extensive customization would be necessary to the software, from the support for PS3 hardware to actually fitting it into PS3 OS. Or, would it run in VM? And where is the memory for that? Plus, GoogleTV devices so far have 1 GB of ram, with large amount of it taken by OS already...

Maybe new PS3 will have separate chip for GoogleTV + 1GB of ram? lol.

in any case, just because someone wrote it in some presentation doesnt make it true. I would say it is impossible for PS3, while being possible for PS4 but making little sense.
 
That's interesting, I always thought PS2 Slim looked like a cheap piece of plastic (well, probably because it was a cheap piece of plastic...), but I agree that it still looked better than PSone.
I always thought the PSone looked like a PS rip-off you got cheap from Hong Kong. You know the kind that's inside a plastic wraping that you hardly can get open and boasts: "1000 games built-in!!!!!"
 
I always thought the PSone looked like a PS rip-off you got cheap from Hong Kong. You know the kind that's inside a plastic wraping that you hardly can get open and boasts: "1000 games built-in!!!!!"
It certainly didn't feel cheap to the touch though, the thing still had a certain weight to it not unlike the PSP-1000, as opposed to the PS2 Slim that felt as strong as cardboard. That screen attachment for the PSone was what made it look like a knockoff product to me though.
 
The coolest thing that Sony did with the rounded PSOne console was the light grey analog sticks on the original Dual Shock controller that shipped with the updated console.

I still wish they would release a DS3 in that color scheme.
 
I'd expect a top-loader instead of a slot one, so perhaps the notch is there to grab the lid?
Could we eventually have multiple models? SSD drive optional instead of hard disk, Front loader and top loader models?

Where I put my PS3 below the TV would be inconvenient for a top loader. I'm sure that is an issue for many and why the PS3 and Xbox360 have slot loaders.

A refreshed to SOC with less need for cooling would free the designs from constraints due to cooling allowing more flexibility in designs.

Reading through multiple layers of a blu-ray disk requires more laser power and shorter wavelength lasers have more power/mm2 to damage the eye and that might have been an issue causing Front Loader to be a better all round choice. Only one safety switch on a top loader keeping the laser from firing if the lid is open. I guess with software they can detect using low power Red laser for DVD if a disk is in place which could be a second check. Microwave ovens have two switches and a third kill switch that will cause the fuse to blow.
 
You missed the NeTV cite with the FPGA that implements HDMI pass thru and overlay $5.00. FPGA used because volume of sales don't support a custom chip. The FPGA not able to support 1080P 3-D without overclocking which they didn't want to support.

Google TV requires a HDMI pass-thru it does not enable HDMI pass-thru. Google TV software support hardware enabled HDMI pass-thru. I gather that's what you meant. Software changes to support HDMI pass-thru on a PS3 would be trivial.

You do realize that the PS3 OS is getting a very major change with the XMB application side before the Christmas season.
How in gods name do you know that?
 
i am struggling to see why would Sony have Google TV inside PS3... It is not like Torne/PlayTV dont exist. It is not really popular either. Extensive customization would be necessary to the software, from the support for PS3 hardware to actually fitting it into PS3 OS. Or, would it run in VM? And where is the memory for that? Plus, GoogleTV devices so far have 1 GB of ram, with large amount of it taken by OS already...

Maybe new PS3 will have separate chip for GoogleTV + 1GB of ram? lol.

in any case, just because someone wrote it in some presentation doesnt make it true. I would say it is impossible for PS3, while being possible for PS4 but making little sense.
Yeah, the attraction is all the Android APPS. Google TV & Android were developed before Standards, before webkit2 before Linux had evolved enough to support handhelds without hogging resources thus the split in OpenGL and OpenGLES. Google took a Linux kernel used Software from FreeBSD and created a OS that mirrored Linux but used fewer resources (Sony did the same with the PS3 and Vita). Linux is now evolving and using Google Android code to create a OS that is by default efficient and can be used in handhelds. Linux Gnome shell is now using a webkit UI similar to Android with a new Linux Kernel that takes much code from Android's kernel and is now compatible with Android code so APPS can be easily ported from Android to Linux.

Android APPS and PS3 HTML5 APPS can use less memory (Provided all apps are using the same libraries and engine) and with WebCL HTML5 apps should be more powerful than Android apps. With a common IPC (Inter Process Communication) standard like WebMAF, the HTML5 apps are cross platform and can plug into an ecosystem of OS apps like Calendar, Contact List, Journal and more that talk to each other and share information via D-BUSS. Problem is Google and Mozilla (MAF) recently had a disagreement and have split causing a fork in the IPC Standard. There are now two standards Google and WebMAF and Sony has apparently chosen WebMAF as has Samsung and LG in their Smart TVs.

And I agree, I don't think Google TV will show up in the PS3. I think Google TV is going to evolve as is Linux and they may merge by PS4 release. There will no longer be a need for them to be separate unless it's artificial because of a business reason or Copyright reason or legacy.

maverick40 said:
You do realize that the PS3 OS is getting a very major change with the XMB application side before the Christmas season.
How in gods name do you know that?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39560858&postcount=314

Moreover, the new devices that are coming in 2012 (Samsung TV, PS3 WebMAF, LG TV, etc...) will all have HLS and Playready capabilities.
I've been following industry trends and the PS3 browser since 2010 and predicted it in 2010. It's an on-going discussion in the NeoGAF browser thread and a reason that I'm called crazy for thinking such a thing because of the STRONG support I've given the idea.

The Microsoft Power point from 9/2010 I recently found outlined the XTV strategy for both Xbox 361 and Xbox 720. This is the reason for a browser in the Xbox 360 for the first time ever at the end of this year. A XTV Xbox 361 with HDMI pass-thru is supposed to be released this Christmas season.

I didn't know for Sony when this was going to happen and didn't know Webkit 2 was a requirement. Gstreamer and Cairo for webkit were known in 2010 because they were in the PS3 Webkit disclosure as well as in the SNAP (Sony Network App) website. Too early in 2010 to accurately predict when and how but as we get closer to implementation there are more leaks, job postings and patent publishing.

With WebMAF, Playready DRM and a DASH IPTV player (gstreamer) in the PS3 Sony can now have their own Commercial IPTV service like Netflix. Job postings by Sony for programmers to develop HTML5 and media heavy HTML5 apps started 5/2011. Third parties are now advertising Job postings to develop WebMAF HTML5 media apps for the PS3.

Just in case you didn't get it. MAF is a standard that will allow Sony to sell and use HTML5 apps across all their platforms and to support this a set of FREE apps like Calendar, Contact List and Journal will be in all Sony platforms and with Playstation Plus they can be updated automatically on all your platforms to reflect the same information. Apps sold by Sony will share information with these basic "OS" apps. Contact list and Calendar with appointment book, Contact list and Skype, Contact list and Google Talk etc.
 
Yeah, the attraction is all the Android APPS. Google TV & Android were developed before Standards, before webkit2 before Linux had evolved enough to support handhelds without hogging resources thus the split in OpenGL and OpenGLES. Google took a Linux kernel used Software from FreeBSD and created a OS that mirrored Linux but used fewer resources (Sony did the same with the PS3 and Vita). Linux is now evolving and using Google Android code to create a OS that is by default efficient and can be used in handhelds. Linux Gnome shell is now using a webkit UI similar to Android with a new Linux Kernel that takes much code from Android's kernel and is now compatible with Android code so APPS can be easily ported from Android to Linux.

Android APPS and PS3 HTML5 APPS can use less memory (Provided all apps are using the same libraries and engine) and with WebCL HTML5 apps should be more powerful than Android apps. With a common IPC (Inter Process Communication) standard like WebMAF, the HTML5 apps are cross platform and can plug into an ecosystem of OS apps like Calendar, Contact List, Journal and more that talk to each other and share information via D-BUSS. Problem is Google and Mozilla (MAF) recently had a disagreement and have split causing a fork in the IPC Standard. There are now two standards Google and WebMAF and Sony has apparently chosen WebMAF as has Samsung and LG in their Smart TVs.



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39560858&postcount=314



I've been following industry trends and the PS3 browser since 2010 and predicted it in 2010. It's an on-going discussion in the NeoGAF browser thread and a reason that I'm called crazy for thinking such a thing because of the STRONG support I've given the idea.

The Microsoft Power point from 9/2010 I recently found outlined the XTV strategy for both Xbox 361 and Xbox 720. This is the reason for a browser in the Xbox 360 for the first time ever at the end of this year. A XTV Xbox 361 with HDMI pass-thru is supposed to be released this Christmas season.

I didn't know for Sony when this was going to happen and didn't know Webkit 2 was a requirement. Gstreamer and Cairo for webkit were known in 2010 because they were in the PS3 Webkit disclosure as well as in the SNAP (Sony Network App) website. Too early in 2010 to accurately predict when and how but as we get closer to implementation there are more leaks, job postings and patent publishing.

With WebMAF, Playready DRM and a DASH IPTV player (gstreamer) in the PS3 Sony can now have their own Commercial IPTV service like Netflix. Job postings by Sony for programmers to develop HTML5 and media heavy HTML5 apps started 5/2011. Third parties are now advertising Job postings to develop WebMAF HTML5 media apps for the PS3.
Wow, cheers for that. This is very interesting stuff! Keep it coming man!